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Post by midnight tea on Feb 11, 2018 1:41:20 GMT
We've reached a word salad territory. That makes no sense at all. "Putting oneself on pedestal" doesn't mean anything close to 'self-proclaiming' oneself a god - just a person who, for one reason or another, thinks that they have to make a decision (also - I don't think Solas has anywhere said that 'it's his right' to decide). Thinks that he has the right to make that decision. Has he asked the people of Thedas? Has he asked anyone? Or has he unilaterally declared that the reality of the worlds is to be as he declares? If someone decides the strategy for a war, they are a general. If someone decides the fate of a nation, they are a president. Self-proclaimed, or otherwise. If someone decides the shape of reality, then what would you call that? I don't know what I'd call it, but certainly not a god. Are all mages gods? They can reshape reality as well, even if not on global scale. Heck, we - as humanity - have ability to reshape reality on global scale. Should we collectively think of ourselves as god-like? And again - making a decision/thinking that one has to make decision or even thinking that one has a right Doesn't. Yet. Makes. Anyone. A. God. One doesn't have to be a general or president and still make decisions that decide the fate of millions - after all, is the guy who single-handedly prevented nuclear war in 1983 a god? That's not what 'god' means in any known definition of the word. Unless you create one yourself. At this point this is just bending over backwards. Solas 'appointing himself' (do we even know how that decision process went? How do you know if he hasn't asked anyone?) that he will decide the fate of the world is still a far cry from self-proclaiming himself a god. And no - nowhere at any point in the story there was any indication that Solas thinks "it's his right to decide" - at best he thinks it's his responsibility to fix his mistake and do something about his own creation, which is a different thing altogether, as flawed you may point out his thinking is.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Feb 11, 2018 3:34:42 GMT
Yes, well, How about this? I'll give him the benefit of the doubt when his ultimate goal doesn't involve the deaths of millions. It's not really that simple. Millions are suffering and dying in Thedas - the elves being misused and enslaved and slaughtered. So... what price would a hero pay to stop that misery and death? I can understand Solas's point of view. The humans are not going to give over their supremacy of the elves without considerable bloodshed. When I was playing Origins, I wished I could play a hero with the mission of freeing the elves. Solas seems to be that hero. Solas went through a lot to free slaves before. He must have been extremely disheartened to learn he'd have to fight that fight again. I hope he wins, to some degree.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 11, 2018 4:11:29 GMT
Yes, well, How about this? I'll give him the benefit of the doubt when his ultimate goal doesn't involve the deaths of millions. It's not really that simple. Millions are suffering and dying in Thedas - the elves being misused and enslaved and slaughtered. So... what price would a hero pay to stop that misery and death? I can understand Solas's point of view. The humans are not going to give over their supremacy of the elves without considerable bloodshed. When I was playing Origins, I wished I could play a hero with the mission of freeing the elves. Solas seems to be that hero. Solas went through a lot to free slaves before. He must have been extremely disheartened to learn he'd have to fight that fight again. I hope he wins, to some degree. But what about all the people who aren't humans or elves?
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Feb 11, 2018 4:21:43 GMT
It's not really that simple. Millions are suffering and dying in Thedas - the elves being misused and enslaved and slaughtered. So... what price would a hero pay to stop that misery and death? I can understand Solas's point of view. The humans are not going to give over their supremacy of the elves without considerable bloodshed. When I was playing Origins, I wished I could play a hero with the mission of freeing the elves. Solas seems to be that hero. Solas went through a lot to free slaves before. He must have been extremely disheartened to learn he'd have to fight that fight again. I hope he wins, to some degree. But what about all the people who aren't humans or elves? This is just another phase of a war that started millennia ago and...
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Post by phoray on Feb 11, 2018 4:39:59 GMT
but it would be interesting to play a game in which you, as the protagonist, must basically become a "god" yourself in order to match the power of The Dread Wolf. Interesting. Starcraft 2 has a protag who intentionally genetically alters herself to the point of being barely reminicent of a human so as to have the power to save, potentially, the galaxy. This of course came with the usual danger and costs to personal happiness.
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Post by phoray on Feb 11, 2018 4:41:23 GMT
Wow, the writing of this game is even dumber than I thought this would imply you've finally got around to playing the games this forum is based on eh?
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 11, 2018 4:53:02 GMT
I'd love a Mask of the Betrayer scenario where you're possessed and you spend the game ferreting out who is responsible and hunting them down. If your rage or selfishness gets the better of you, the spirit within you is corrupted and your dialogue options are increasingly focused and extreme. If you fight to maintain balance within yourself, you're in harmony with the spirit and it's more of a Wynne situation than an Anders one and you're able to maintain some level of control.
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Post by phoray on Feb 11, 2018 4:56:56 GMT
the spirit within you is corrupted you're in harmony with the spirit Sounds like a morality bar when you strip away the flavor wording. I don't think it'd cover what you're looking for. When Anders was on Friendship path, he was at more harmony with Justice because neither were being Challenged. No one was telling them they were wrong to want and think and do the things they did. So in this way, you can still be at harmony with yourself and still commit great attrocities.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 11, 2018 5:08:44 GMT
the spirit within you is corrupted you're in harmony with the spirit Sounds like a morality bar when you strip away the flavor wording. I don't think it'd cover what you're looking for. When Anders was on Friendship path, he was at more harmony with Justice because neither were being Challenged. No one was telling them they were wrong to want and think and do the things they did. So in this way, you can still be at harmony with yourself and still commit great attrocities. True enough! There'd be some kind of nuance, for sure. Friendship Anders is in harmony with Justice, rivalry Anders has blackouts and seems to be fighting him at times, but imo either way Justice has already been corrupted loooong before Hawke comes to Kirkwall and there's any friendship/rivalry going on. Then there's Wynne, who seems to gel with the Faith spirit without any overwhelming negatives (aside from being a bit preachy and self-righteous, I mean. But she's not blowing up buildings). There's Sigrid from JoH, but we don't know much about how she's influenced the spirit inside her or it's influenced her... Mostly I used that example because in MotB, if you try to fight the thing inside you and resist its influence, it becomes easier to resist it over time. Meanwhile the more you give in, the more you basically become a spirit-eating glutton and are never satiated. It's just kind of a cool system and I'd love to see an actual struggle for the PC, rather than just being so awesome that nothing - not even possession - phases them or slows them down lol.
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Post by Lazarillo on Feb 11, 2018 5:24:30 GMT
It's just kind of a cool system and I'd love to see an actual struggle for the PC, rather than just being so awesome that nothing - not even possession - phases them or slows them down lol. Not played NWN, but when I think possession, I'm more reminded of The Old Republic, where one of the stories has the player character under brainwashing, and if you're ordered to do something, the dialogue wheel will have an option like "I won't do that!" but then the spoken line will be "Yes sir, understood".
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Post by phoray on Feb 11, 2018 5:33:45 GMT
It's just kind of a cool system and I'd love to see an actual struggle for the PC, rather than just being so awesome that nothing - not even possession - phases them or slows them down lol. Not played NWN, but when I think possession, I'm more reminded of The Old Republic, where one of the stories has the player character under brainwashing, and if you're ordered to do something, the dialogue wheel will have an option like "I won't do that!" but then the spoken line will be "Yes sir, understood". Sounds frustrating. I was just playing Life is Strange and ended up in a paralell universe meant to crush my soul. at one point, the four options of dialogue wheel were literally all things the protaganist wouldn't say. She even said so with her "inner thoughts" voice.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 11, 2018 5:43:16 GMT
It's just kind of a cool system and I'd love to see an actual struggle for the PC, rather than just being so awesome that nothing - not even possession - phases them or slows them down lol. Not played NWN, but when I think possession, I'm more reminded of The Old Republic, where one of the stories has the player character under brainwashing, and if you're ordered to do something, the dialogue wheel will have an option like "I won't do that!" but then the spoken line will be "Yes sir, understood". YEEEESS. Honestly, I love shit like this. It bothers me that every time a mage Warden or mage Hawke goes into the Fade or confronts a demon, it's.... not a big deal. Over and over the series tells us about the dangers of possession and how wily demons are, but we as players are never tricked by the Fade. It's glowy and green and obviously fake. And to me that cheapens the very real threat of demons and makes it seem like they're no biggie, we can just shrug them off so obviously every mage can just shrug them off and everyone in this series who is wary of magic is obviously paranoid for no good reason. I wish for once that we'd have a Fade quest where we as a player have no clue it's the Fade. Everything seems normal. There's no fuzzy edges, no floaty islands and melting walls... only, our friend here keeps asking if they can have something, and they get more and more insistent if we try to resist...... Another example: in Vampire: the Masquerade - Bloodlines if you consistently do evil things (like, say... killing innocents), your Humanity will start to drop and your available dialogue options will get more and more evil, to the point where if your Humanity score gets REALLY low, you no longer have the ability to be nice and all of your dialogue options are cruel or at least neutral... because you've given in to the Beast within you, and there are real consequences for that.
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Post by phoray on Feb 11, 2018 6:05:55 GMT
Another example: in Vampire: the Masquerade - Bloodlines if you consistently do evil things (like, say... killing innocents), your Humanity will start to drop and your available dialogue options will get more and more evil, to the point where if your Humanity score gets REALLY low, you no longer have the ability to be nice and all of your dialogue options are cruel or at least neutral... because you've given in to the Beast within you, and there are real consequences for that. Such an interesting mechanic that I'm tempted to now play the game... Does it have a female protag or romance or branching story directions?
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 11, 2018 6:10:31 GMT
Another example: in Vampire: the Masquerade - Bloodlines if you consistently do evil things (like, say... killing innocents), your Humanity will start to drop and your available dialogue options will get more and more evil, to the point where if your Humanity score gets REALLY low, you no longer have the ability to be nice and all of your dialogue options are cruel or at least neutral... because you've given in to the Beast within you, and there are real consequences for that. Such an interesting mechanic that I'm tempted to now play the game... Does it have a female protag or romance or branching story directions? I dunno if you're serious but omg please play it it's so good. One of the best RPGs of all time. You can play a female character, there aren't really romance options per se but you can definitely get your flirt on if you max Seduction, and there's multiple endings.
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Post by phoray on Feb 11, 2018 6:33:17 GMT
You can play a female character, there aren't really romance options per se but you can definitely get your flirt on if you max Seduction, and there's multiple endings. Sold. Valentines day is coming up, I wonder if Capitalism has declared a sale on that holiday.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Feb 11, 2018 6:38:25 GMT
Every time someone mentions Bloodlines on the internet, someone goes and reinstalls Bloodlines. It won't be me today, though, because I am most of the way through replaying Pillars of Eternity. Bloodlines is simultaneously one of the best RPGs I have ever played and a notoriously buggy piece of shit. So if you're going to try it - and you should! - I suggest installing the unofficial fan patch so that it actually works and you don't get stuck in a quest because a door randomly fell off its hinges and blocked your path. (Yes, that happened to me once.)
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 11, 2018 6:51:43 GMT
You can play a female character, there aren't really romance options per se but you can definitely get your flirt on if you max Seduction, and there's multiple endings. Sold. Valentines day is coming up, I wonder if Capitalism has declared a sale on that holiday. I'm more excited about this than I should be. Yay! I hope you enjoy it! Every time someone mentions Bloodlines on the internet, someone goes and reinstalls Bloodlines. It won't be me today, though, because I am most of the way through replaying Pillars of Eternity. I swear, this is such a meme! Is it bad that I never uninstalled it in the first place? As far as I know if you buy it on Steam it automatically comes with the newest version of the Unofficial Patch. One less thing to worry about!
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Post by shechinah on Feb 11, 2018 13:30:31 GMT
Not played NWN, but when I think possession, I'm more reminded of The Old Republic, where one of the stories has the player character under brainwashing, and if you're ordered to do something, the dialogue wheel will have an option like "I won't do that!" but then the spoken line will be "Yes sir, understood". That was one of my favorite chapters.
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Post by TheHeroOfFerelden on Feb 11, 2018 13:53:43 GMT
Sold. Valentines day is coming up, I wonder if Capitalism has declared a sale on that holiday. It's currently on sale on Gog for 4,99.
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Post by rras1994 on Feb 11, 2018 15:42:25 GMT
Another example from SWTOR (sorry! love that game!): is in the last two expansions- KOTFE and KOTET - you have Valkorian, who I think would be a really good way to portray getting possesed by a demon. Like you know he's bad news but he's so charismatic and what he says makes sense and he manipulates you so well, it's easy not to notice it. I would love to see something like that in the next Dragon Age.
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Post by Walter Black on Feb 11, 2018 16:57:01 GMT
You can play a female character, there aren't really romance options per se but you can definitely get your flirt on if you max Seduction, and there's multiple endings. Sold. Valentines day is coming up, I wonder if Capitalism has declared a sale on that holiday. Of the Clans that can Embrace you, Toreador and Ventrue are good social characters, while Brujah, Gangrel and Temere are slightly better at combat. Nosferatu can be frustrating (monstrous appearance, forced stealth) but worth it at least once, as they make Bloodlines an almost completely different game. While I'd wait for the second or third character for spoilers, you MUST play a Malkavian, as their insane dialogue choices and hallucinations are a riot .
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Post by cloud9 on Feb 11, 2018 19:00:43 GMT
Wow, the writing of this game is even dumber than I thought this would imply you've finally got around to playing the games this forum is based on eh?
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Post by phoray on Feb 11, 2018 19:30:02 GMT
Sold. Valentines day is coming up, I wonder if Capitalism has declared a sale on that holiday. Of the Clans that can Embrace you, Toreador and Ventrue are good social characters, while Brujah, Gangrel and Temere are slightly better at combat. Nosferatu can be frustrating (monstrous appearance, forced stealth) but worth it at least once, as they make Bloodlines an almost completely different game. While I'd wait for the second or third character for spoilers, you MUST play a Malkavian, as their insane dialogue choices and hallucinations are a riot . I have no context of what you're saying. I play as a Vampire, don't I?
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Post by tracyjackson23 on Feb 11, 2018 20:43:35 GMT
Of the Clans that can Embrace you, Toreador and Ventrue are good social characters, while Brujah, Gangrel and Temere are slightly better at combat. Nosferatu can be frustrating (monstrous appearance, forced stealth) but worth it at least once, as they make Bloodlines an almost completely different game. While I'd wait for the second or third character for spoilers, you MUST play a Malkavian, as their insane dialogue choices and hallucinations are a riot . I have no context of what you're saying. I play as a Vampire, don't I? Yes, you do play as a vampire. But each "clan" is like a different faction in the game, although they do all work together kinda. You get different benefits and weaknesses for being with different clans, so it's pretty interesting.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 11, 2018 20:49:43 GMT
Of the Clans that can Embrace you, Toreador and Ventrue are good social characters, while Brujah, Gangrel and Temere are slightly better at combat. Nosferatu can be frustrating (monstrous appearance, forced stealth) but worth it at least once, as they make Bloodlines an almost completely different game. While I'd wait for the second or third character for spoilers, you MUST play a Malkavian, as their insane dialogue choices and hallucinations are a riot . I have no context of what you're saying. I play as a Vampire, don't I? Yes - that was a lot to throw at you at once lol. You're a vampire, and your bloodline or clan is basically a mix of your background and class and you choose it at the beginning of the game.
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