Amirit
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 460 Likes: 594
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amirit
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Amirit on Jun 7, 2017 12:06:36 GMT
I though I explained - it's second time when they retconed a straight women LI into bi. Do you remember a single case where gay character was turned into bi? Any case when male-gamers LI was turned bi? Yet, girls-gamers LIs are treated as a pool of amorphous spare parts that can be changed at whim of any other part of the audience and not once women opinions on the matter was considered. Oh, and yes, always with that explanation - oh, come on, don't be greedy, sure you can share, you are not losing anything here. Vetra THANK THE GODDESS Not the case. Vetra was changed on the development stage or even before she was written. And you know about it from her writer. In the game she was bi from the start, while Kaidan and now Jaal (I can also throw Anders here) suddenly changed orientation to cater demands of some gamers. My statement remains true - only women LIs in BW games are treated as undefined stock characters for hot-fixes of all screw-ups developers allow themselves. But... Jaal is still an LI for straight women. He just became one for gay/bi men too. That's what I meant by "you're not losing anything". It's not like he isn't into women anymore. See above. He was made not even "player-sexual" but explicitly "bi". Sure, we can still romance him, but as it was said many times - "bi" is orientation of itself. Should it be from the start - I would not care, but they simply did what they always do exclusively with women's LIs - change on a whim to cater someone else interests.
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Conquer Your Dreams
N3
Say that you love me
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: stescooter100
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Jun 7, 2017 12:10:08 GMT
It seems this patch is addressed to a specific group of people. Shame. Just waiting for MEA GOTY LGBT edition.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
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Dang it.
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griffonclaw39
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jun 7, 2017 12:12:47 GMT
It seems this patch is addressed to a specific group of people. Shame. Just waiting for MEA GOTY LGBT edition. I know you're being funny and sarcastic, but I get this as well. BioWare... just fix the game so the quests aren't broken, collision issues are resolved and so on...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 12:14:23 GMT
The angara are apparently "gender-fluid". Lol. That's based on a convo in-game.
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Post by Warrick on Jun 7, 2017 12:14:46 GMT
It's not just him it's everybody. Put Liam in there or any random asari compared to Liara and you'll see the same.
In Origins there was a mod to fix the bizarre proportions of the dwarves. A mod for Inquisition fixed the male elves' baffling arms.
Alas mods aren't a thing anymore for this company.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 7, 2017 12:22:48 GMT
Because m/m players couldn't even meet the 3 romance achievement available to everyone else, have you been paying attention? I miss the days where companies didn't care about trivial shit like this. Want the three romance achievement? Date a chick. Why is this important again? Then it would have been no issue at all for straight players to play a gay romance to get their 3 romances achievement. Actually, I can imagine the crying and wailing that such an eventuality would generate given the complaints at Anders even daring to flirt with male Hawke (DA2) So no, it's not trivial shit just because you personally are not benefiting from the corrective content and to suggest so is rather selfish in my view.
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FeralEwok
N3
Yub Nub
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by FeralEwok on Jun 7, 2017 12:22:58 GMT
Their priorities are difficult to understand. They have a game that's goofy looking from start to end, but their #1 priority is to add an alien romance and modify lines for a character a small fraction of players will ever encounter or talk to. Don't be silly, the pic with Ryder is actually slightly viewed from the top as with Shepard its a perfectly frontal view. Of course this makes the upper half of his body appear bigger and his legs smaller and shorter. Just look at the feet to get an idea of the angle. I am not happy with male Ryders build either, I find him to look too scrawny for his job, especially compared to Shepard, but his proportions are ok for an average guy. I feel like this image needs more shitty MS Paint to tell me what's wrong with it...Lots of red arrows and hand written text. Oh wait, what's that? We have something available? I wasted 15 minutes of my morning on this...
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 7, 2017 12:31:40 GMT
* I wasted 15 minutes of my morning on this...Look on the bright side, hundreds of people are now wasting 30 seconds of their mornings on it, your problem is the least of it ...
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Jun 7, 2017 12:35:56 GMT
I still say its the angle of the picture. If I look into a mirror and look down the angle makes my legs look like Tyrion Lannister little shrimp legs. But I high-bar squat 200kg /440lbs.
We'd need a picture with the same angle of view for a direct comparison.
And as I already mentioned, yes, Scott is a little on the scrawny side, considering his duties. Sara Ryder got a nice booty body but a face that needs......getting used to, (man am I smooth!) Scott Ryder has a decent face but his body is very MEH. Hooray.
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Post by dalinne on Jun 7, 2017 12:39:42 GMT
Not the case. Vetra was changed on the development stage or even before she was written. And you know about it from her writer. In the game she was bi from the start, while Kaidan and now Jaal (I can also throw Anders here) suddenly changed orientation to cater demands of some gamers. My statement remains true - only women LIs in BW games are treated as undefined stock characters for hot-fixes of all screw-ups developers allow themselves.But... Jaal is still an LI for straight women. He just became one for gay/bi men too. That's what I meant by "you're not losing anything". It's not like he isn't into women anymore. See above. He was made not even "player-sexual" but explicitly "bi". Sure, we can still romance him, but as it was said many times - "bi" is orientation of itself. Should it be from the start - I would not care, but they simply did what they always do exclusively with women's LIs - change on a whim to cater someone else interests. I think you are overreacting. If you use Anders as an example, you should pointed out Sebastian, the only love interest in DA2 who was explicitly straight was for women. Cullen and Blackwall were explicitly straight also (for women). Cullen's case is especially interesting because he was added later in the process stage. MET? Yep, straight women were screwed (only two companions LI present in the three games: one of them could be possibly dead and abstent in the second game, the other one wasn't romanceable in the first game and possibly not romanceable in the thrird). The same way Lesbian women were screwed (only one companion, Liara, and one crewmate by the time of ME3). Or Gay man (only ONE squadmate by ME3, one who could be possibly dead and one crewmate. NO OTHER CHOICE from ME1 to ME2!). The only one player benefited by the system was the straight male Shepard. Moral of the story? Let your character be bisexual, DOUBLE OF POSSIBILITIES!!! Also, some people discover their sexuality later in their lives. Some bisexuals, for example, don't know they can be attracted to the same sex until it happens some way or another and they are not necessarily attracted 50/50 to the two sexes.
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Post by abaris on Jun 7, 2017 12:41:05 GMT
I still say its the angle of the picture. If I look into a mirror and look down the angle makes my legs look like Tyrion Lannister little shrimp legs. But I high-bar squat 200kg /440lbs. We'd need a picture with the same angle of view for a direct comparison. And as I already mentioned, yes, Scott is a little on the scrawny side, considering his duties. Sara Ryder got a nice body but a shitty face, Scott Ryder has a decent face but his body is MEH. Hooray. You know, this whole discussion over how Ryder looks as compared to Shepard reminds me a bit of a previous discussion I saw. Some people seem to get that anal over looks that they do side by side comparisons as if this was some kind of scientific endeavor. I'm not sure if it was ME3 where someone did that last or some other game, but they really went through the motions to come up with the claim that all female skulls had indeed male features.
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cotheer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by cotheer on Jun 7, 2017 12:43:37 GMT
I still say its the angle of the picture. If I look into a mirror and look down the angle makes my legs look like Tyrion Lannister little shrimp legs. But I high-bar squat 200kg /440lbs. We'd need a picture with the same angle of view for a direct comparison. And as I already mentioned, yes, Scott is a little on the scrawny side, considering his duties. Sara Ryder got a nice booty body but a face that needs......getting used to, (man am I smooth!) Scott Ryder has a decent face but his body is MEH. Hooray. Wrong angle would also make his torso "bigger" compared to Shepard's, which is not the case. Dude is a freak, and we should all laugh at him/it.
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Amirit
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 460 Likes: 594
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Amirit on Jun 7, 2017 12:52:19 GMT
Not the case. Vetra was changed on the development stage or even before she was written. And you know about it from her writer. In the game she was bi from the start, while Kaidan and now Jaal (I can also throw Anders here) suddenly changed orientation to cater demands of some gamers. My statement remains true - only women LIs in BW games are treated as undefined stock characters for hot-fixes of all screw-ups developers allow themselves.See above. He was made not even "player-sexual" but explicitly "bi". Sure, we can still romance him, but as it was said many times - "bi" is orientation of itself. Should it be from the start - I would not care, but they simply did what they always do exclusively with women's LIs - change on a whim to cater someone else interests. I think you are overreacting. If you use Anders as an example, you should pointed out Sebastian, the only love interest in DA2 who was explicitly straight was for women. Cullen and Blackwall were explicitly straight also (for women). Cullen's case is especially interesting because he was added later in the process stage. MET? Yep, straight women were screwed (only two companions LI present in the three games: one of them could be possibly dead and abstent in the second game, the other one wasn't romanceable in the first game and possibly not romanceable in the thrird). The same way Lesbian women were screwed (only one companion, Liara, and one crewmate by the time of ME3). Or Gay man (only ONE squadmate by ME3, one who could be possibly dead and one crewmate. NO OTHER CHOICE from ME1 to ME2!). The only one player benefited by the system was the straight male Shepard. Moral of the story? Let your character be bisexual, DOUBLE OF POSSIBILITIES!!! Also, some people discover their sexuality later in their lives. Some bisexuals, for example, don't know they can be attracted to the same sex until it happens some way or another and they are not necessarily attracted 50/50 to the two sexes. First of all, I said several times already but I gladly repeat - yes, I gave up and in a "make them all playersexual" boat too now. Because consistency means more to me than anything else. Now, what are you trying to say? That straight LIs still exist? I am aware about it. Though, Sebastian a) not a real romance, DLC companion. In the game itself everyone was "playersexual", but only Anders came from previous games where he was explicitly straight, so I still count him among women interests who was changed (though - agree - no on demand). I am talking about taking changing already established characters. Fixing own screw-ups toward one part of the community by refurbishing of something given to another part - is a bad habit of BW. Interesting enough, these are always the same parts. As of "people changed" - sure. But somehow in BW games only fem-LIs do so. No to mention, Jaal did not change with time, but was changed in a patch.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Jun 7, 2017 12:58:21 GMT
I still say its the angle of the picture. If I look into a mirror and look down the angle makes my legs look like Tyrion Lannister little shrimp legs. But I high-bar squat 200kg /440lbs. We'd need a picture with the same angle of view for a direct comparison. And as I already mentioned, yes, Scott is a little on the scrawny side, considering his duties. Sara Ryder got a nice booty body but a face that needs......getting used to, (man am I smooth!) Scott Ryder has a decent face but his body is MEH. Hooray. Wrong angle would also make his torso "bigger" compared to Shepard's, which is not the case. Dude is a freak, and we should all laugh at him/it. Well, he IS scrawny.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 12:58:30 GMT
Maybe I just don't get it, but making Jaal bi helped gay players with things besides romancing him, and Sara's romance is still amazing, so why is this so bad? Everyone gets Jaal and it seems the romances will be slightly different and not a copy and paste either, so Sara's story with him is still hers.
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Post by abaris on Jun 7, 2017 13:00:09 GMT
Now, what are you trying to say? That straight LIs still exist? I am aware about it. Though, Sebastian a) not a real romance, DLC companion. In the game itself everyone was "playersexual", but only Anders came from previous games where he was explicitly straight, so I still count him among women interests who was changed (though - agree - no on demand). I never played DAII, but Anders came only from Awakening, an expansion, not a game and certainly not games. Awakening didn't allow for any romances, so Anders' sexual orientation quite naturally didn't come up at all. He was a blank sheet to fill.
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Post by Steelcan on Jun 7, 2017 13:20:33 GMT
Maybe I just don't get it, but making Jaal bi helped gay players with things besides romancing him, and Sara's romance is still amazing, so why is this so bad? Everyone gets Jaal and it seems the romances will be slightly different and not a copy and paste either, so Sara's story with him is still hers. I can only speak for myself on this, but I don't think the problem is that Jaal being bi is "robbing" anyone of content, that's obviously ridiculous. Many of use disagree with the precedent it sets and question the wisdom of making a change like this in a patch.
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trevelyanshep
N1
Blah blah blah
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
PSN: thekrakenshelby
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Post by trevelyanshep on Jun 7, 2017 13:22:20 GMT
So when are they going to fix Jaals endless loading during his loyalty mission? It needs to be fixed.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 13:23:24 GMT
Maybe I just don't get it, but making Jaal bi helped gay players with things besides romancing him, and Sara's romance is still amazing, so why is this so bad? Everyone gets Jaal and it seems the romances will be slightly different and not a copy and paste either, so Sara's story with him is still hers. I can only speak for myself on this, but I don't think the problem is that Jaal being bi is "robbing" anyone of content, that's obviously ridiculous. Many of use disagree with the precedent it sets and question the wisdom of making a change like this in a patch. I understand some of you guys, but most are saying it changes him and to me, he just feels complete now. I guess many of us felt something was off with him in the game and we knew of cut coding and a missed chance that was left untouched by the writers, so knowing that made us think "hey now this makes sense!" since we saw the codes and heard the lines they recorded just in case they changed him.
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Post by Steelcan on Jun 7, 2017 13:25:55 GMT
I can only speak for myself on this, but I don't think the problem is that Jaal being bi is "robbing" anyone of content, that's obviously ridiculous. Many of use disagree with the precedent it sets and question the wisdom of making a change like this in a patch. I understand some of you guys, but most are saying it changes him and to me, he just feels complete now. I guess many of us felt something was off with him in the game and we knew of cut coding and a missed chance that was left untouched by the writers, so knowing that made us think "hey now this makes sense!" since we saw the codes and heard the lines they recorded just in case they changed him. I don't buy that line of reasoning since we know content gets recorded and is never meant to be seen in the game. Its weirder in Jaal's case than normal, but I don't see anything to convince me of something else being up.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 13:28:27 GMT
I understand some of you guys, but most are saying it changes him and to me, he just feels complete now. I guess many of us felt something was off with him in the game and we knew of cut coding and a missed chance that was left untouched by the writers, so knowing that made us think "hey now this makes sense!" since we saw the codes and heard the lines they recorded just in case they changed him. I don't buy that line of reasoning since we know content gets recorded and is never meant to be seen in the game. Its weirder in Jaal's case than normal, but I don't see anything to convince me of something else being up. It's just a feeling some of us got, and not to mention Jaal's romance ended up a bit broken, so something was missing and never fixed either. I know Jaal was not written bi. His romance is for Sara only. That's why they made a new one, but there's hints he was considered bi at one point and his writer has experience with writing a male who was changed from straight to bi, so it just fit. It's all perspective however.
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Amirit
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 460 Likes: 594
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Amirit on Jun 7, 2017 13:30:32 GMT
Now, what are you trying to say? That straight LIs still exist? I am aware about it. Though, Sebastian a) not a real romance, DLC companion. In the game itself everyone was "playersexual", but only Anders came from previous games where he was explicitly straight, so I still count him among women interests who was changed (though - agree - no on demand). I never played DAII, but Anders came only from Awakening, an expansion, not a game and certainly not games. Awakening didn't allow for any romances, so Anders' sexual orientation quite naturally didn't come up at all. He was a blank sheet to fill. He was not. Half of his banters were about women and his past relations, he was flirting with women around, he was helped by ex lover (girl) and there even was a flirting line for femWarden there. Part of the shock for male Hawks about that infamous "no neutral option" hitting line came from the fact that many remembered well their joyful straight friend Anders from Awakening. Though, yes, you are right, it's not "games" but an expansion (only one).
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Post by shechinah on Jun 7, 2017 13:33:09 GMT
I don't buy that line of reasoning since we know content gets recorded and is never meant to be seen in the game. Its weirder in Jaal's case than normal, but I don't see anything to convince me of something else being up. It's just a feeling some of us got, and not to mention Jaal's romance ended up a bit broken, so something was missing and never fixed either. I know Jaal was not written bi. His romance is for Sara only. That's why they made a new one, but there's hints he was considered bi at one point and his writer has experience with writing a male who was changed from straight to bi, so it just fit. It's all perspective however. Eh, I don't think that could be used to indicate something since just because you wrote one character as such, does not mean that every character you write will be so. I have experience writing a gay character that becomes a villain but that does not mean that every gay character I write will become a villain.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 13:33:35 GMT
Not the case. Vetra was changed on the development stage or even before she was written. And you know about it from her writer. In the game she was bi from the start, while Kaidan and now Jaal (I can also throw Anders here) suddenly changed orientation to cater demands of some gamers. My statement remains true - only women LIs in BW games are treated as undefined stock characters for hot-fixes of all screw-ups developers allow themselves.See above. He was made not even "player-sexual" but explicitly "bi". Sure, we can still romance him, but as it was said many times - "bi" is orientation of itself. Should it be from the start - I would not care, but they simply did what they always do exclusively with women's LIs - change on a whim to cater someone else interests. I think you are overreacting. If you use Anders as an example, you should pointed out Sebastian, the only love interest in DA2 who was explicitly straight was for women. Cullen and Blackwall were explicitly straight also (for women). Cullen's case is especially interesting because he was added later in the process stage. MET? Yep, straight women were screwed (only two companions LI present in the three games: one of them could be possibly dead and abstent in the second game, the other one wasn't romanceable in the first game and possibly not romanceable in the thrird). The same way Lesbian women were screwed (only one companion, Liara, and one crewmate by the time of ME3). Or Gay man (only ONE squadmate by ME3, one who could be possibly dead and one crewmate. NO OTHER CHOICE from ME1 to ME2!). The only one player benefited by the system was the straight male Shepard. Moral of the story? Let your character be bisexual, DOUBLE OF POSSIBILITIES!!! Also, some people discover their sexuality later in their lives. Some bisexuals, for example, don't know they can be attracted to the same sex until it happens some way or another and they are not necessarily attracted 50/50 to the two sexes. Cullen was not for ALL women. Qunari and Dwarves were left out, because I guess if you like these races you are not supposed to fall for nice human guys as you are an abomination of the womanhood or some such. But both LIs for a straight female, added later, were locked out for 50 to 75% of the races. All LIs that were address to the male PC did not shun ANY race.
Sebastian is a part of a PAID DLC. All LIs for a male came free with the game.
Attempting to even suggest that it would have nice to make Dorian bi nets you a suspicion of being a horrible horrible person, but Kaiden and Jaal opened to a male PC is fine. I am perfectly fine with it, but I wish we did not have a double-standard.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 13:34:50 GMT
It's just a feeling some of us got, and not to mention Jaal's romance ended up a bit broken, so something was missing and never fixed either. I know Jaal was not written bi. His romance is for Sara only. That's why they made a new one, but there's hints he was considered bi at one point and his writer has experience with writing a male who was changed from straight to bi, so it just fit. It's all perspective however. Eh, I don't think that could be used. Just because you wrote one character as such, does not mean that every character you write will be so. I have experience writing a gay character that becomes a villain but that does not mean that every gay character I write will become a villain. Yeah but it helped fuel many of us into believing he was bi, so this patch is not affecting us in a "they changed him" sort of way.
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