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Post by setokaiba on Jun 8, 2017 11:45:18 GMT
Part of me want to see it flop big time because I want Bioware to make RPGs but on the other hand if it does we might be looking at the end of Bioware. I don't care either way, since I don't care about MMOs or competitive online shooters. But since you mentioned Division. That made it into the top ten worst games of the Angry Joe show. One reviewer I actually trust, since his tastes in gaming seem to mirror my own on many occasions. If you playing with friends and just goofing around it's a fun game. I beat it with my friends but I couldn't tell anything about the story because I paid no attention to what little it has. AJ review about the game is 100% correct though.
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Post by setokaiba on Jun 8, 2017 11:49:02 GMT
Given there's always going to be an axe to grind i take the article with a healthy pinch of salt. That said if there ever was an initial plan to make the game a massive empty space full of procedurally generated worlds that seems stupidity of the highest order for a company who's market is highly story driven RPGs I think it's because a few people where saying they would love to see a Bioware game like NMS. Like I remember Angry Joe saying it in his NMS review.
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Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jun 8, 2017 12:25:09 GMT
Well, I am two for two. Dragon Age 2 - my favorite in the DA Franchise. ME:A - my favorite in the ME franchise. And I top this with Jade Empire being my favorite BioWARE game from their full legacy of games. I am tragically special. I loved DA2 once I told myself that it was an expansion to Origins. Expansions tend to be very isolated places with just a few environments (like DA2). To me, if it was marketed as a super expansion to Origins and charged full-price because of even more DLC, then it would be considered the greatest expansion to date. Think on that. However, EA's marketing said otherwise. Derp. Hawke's narrative is the best of all the games. Better than any ME game and the best in the DA franchise. Varric became my favorite "bard" of all time.
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Post by brandoftime on Jun 8, 2017 12:36:45 GMT
As late as November, this dev was saying we would have a lot more than just 5 to 7 worlds to explore - makes me wonder how much unused assets are lying around. www.gameinformer.com/themes/blogs/generic/post.aspx?WeblogApp=features&y=2016&m=11&d=23&WeblogPostName=six-fun-activities-to-pursue-in-mass-effect-andromeda&GroupKeys=He said "Other planets are smaller and won’t require getting the Nomad packed up. Planets house a bevy of different discoveries, as you’ll find colonies, hidden dungeons, minerals, and other secrets to unlock on your journey. “This is the biggest we’ve ever gone, in terms of the number of pieces of content,” Gamble says. “Although we have a lot of different areas to go to, we want to make it so whenever you go to those areas, you remember them.” Some planets are on the critical path; others are completely optional. BioWare is providing a lot to do when you’re out exploring, but wants to keep a fair amount optional so the player can choose how much they want to invest in the experience. " Given that 3 of the 5 worlds are virtually identical to each other as deserts . . . it seems a last minute panic change of course ensued. I do like the game, it's much better after patch 1.05, but these kinds of interviews show just how great a game this could have been if all 5 years had been good, not just 2.
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Origin: mmoblitz
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Post by mmoblitz on Jun 8, 2017 12:49:02 GMT
Given there's always going to be an axe to grind i take the article with a healthy pinch of salt. That said if there ever was an initial plan to make the game a massive empty space full of procedurally generated worlds that seems stupidity of the highest order for a company who's market is highly story driven RPGs
Which I think Bioware is moving away from. Either Bioware or EA is chasing the money trail and it's not in RPG's. I felt it started with DAI and got even worse with MEA. For me, the characters and story were the worst in that series just like MEA is the worst for me in the ME series. I can draw lots of comparisons between the two and how story and characters took a back seat to open world, world building, and significant changes to combat. MEA just took that concept a bit further than DAI did and what made Bioware great got put on the back burner and now they are paying the price for it.
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Post by Elfen Lied on Jun 8, 2017 12:51:28 GMT
I really liked the game after patch 1.05. If I had waited and bought a copy after this patch, you would only read a few posts about how great the game turned out. All of the games in the trilogy had cringe-worthy moments and it would never have bothered me at all. However, seeing the game as it was released, feeling "burned" once again at launch, it angers me that BioWare took such a risk to meet the fiscal year deadline. EA didn't say anything but used that 10 hour preview to make sales while killing everyone's reputation that was involved. And if you like I could make a long list of games which were nearly unplayable at launch and/or were broken by the patching system, but I have never seen a shitstorm like the one that hit ME:A. Indeed, this game is far from perfect, but it's also far from being so bad. All in all I would rate it 7/10, which in my scale of values means "decent". The more I read forums, articles and blogs the more I believe that there are other reasons behind this hate, or to say better, that people really wanted a reason for hating it, therefore, considering that the perfect game will never exist it was obvious that people would find that reason that they needed.
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Post by decafhigh on Jun 8, 2017 13:16:46 GMT
Now that we've learned top people leaving is bad, I wonder what Casey Hudson leaving 2 years after starting the new IP means. I fear it will be another mess. It's a Destiny/Division clone. One of those MMO shooters with very little content and very repetitive but it allows EA to nickel and dime you to get the "full game" like Destiny and Division. Once I heard it was that kind of game I lost interest. Part of me want to see it flop big time because I want Bioware to make RPGs but on the other hand if it does we might be looking at the end of Bioware. If Dylan flops, yeah that will be very bad for BW. Regardless of how MEA and DA4 do. Say hello to Westwood kind of bad.
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Post by OdanUrr on Jun 8, 2017 13:19:33 GMT
The more I read forums, articles and blogs the more I believe that there are other reasons behind this hate, or to say better, that people really wanted a reason for hating it, therefore, considering that the perfect game will never exist it was obvious that people would find that reason that they needed. What "hate" are we talking about here? You mean user scores? Those are par for the course for games in general. If people had high hopes for a game and are disappointed, then they'll throw 1s and 0s at it faster than you can say binary. I, personally, never "hate" a game, but I can find it disappointing, and this article explains some of the reasons why Andromeda didn't live up to its full potential.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
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Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jun 8, 2017 13:22:11 GMT
I really liked the game after patch 1.05. If I had waited and bought a copy after this patch, you would only read a few posts about how great the game turned out. All of the games in the trilogy had cringe-worthy moments and it would never have bothered me at all. However, seeing the game as it was released, feeling "burned" once again at launch, it angers me that BioWare took such a risk to meet the fiscal year deadline. EA didn't say anything but used that 10 hour preview to make sales while killing everyone's reputation that was involved. And if you like I could make a long list of games which were nearly unplayable at launch and/or were broken by the patching system, but I have never seen a shitstorm like the one that hit ME:A. Indeed, this game is far from perfect, but it's also far from being so bad. All in all I would rate it 7/10, which in my scale of values means "decent". The more I read forums, articles and blogs the more I believe that there are other reasons behind this hate, or to say better, that people really wanted a reason for hating it, therefore, considering that the perfect game will never exist it was obvious that people would find that reason that they needed. I'm telling you right now I agree with you on that. The bad karma surrounding BioWare at PAX was real. A lot of disgruntled fans were there and they couldn't stop talking crap. Former employees having very loud conversations about how bad Austin turned out. The competition, like Bethesda and CDPR, took advantage of the malcontent. YouTube seemed like it had an axe to grind and of course, BioWare keeps giving them more ammunition to enforce their negative point of view. This is all on EA and BioWare. The competition wants to get BioWare's fanbase and guess what? BioWare is helping them. EA doesn't know crap about assessing the public. Believe me when I say this: When Dylan is announced, the new sh**storm is coming. Everyone with a iPhone will be making YouTube videos as this is going to be some cash grab, an unpolished turd that will never live up to the hype, a copycat formula that failed, etc. Believe me, their are people who have aligned themselves with other companies and would love to humble or even break BioWare. Too many ex-employees, too many butt-hurt fans, too many folks who will take advantage of the hate for click-baiting. This is the bed EA made and BioWare is just as much to blame.
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Post by KLGChaos on Jun 8, 2017 13:23:35 GMT
I think it's pretty easy to figure out what happened.
EA made yet another mistake with an IP and development studio that it acquired, something it's already famous for (even in the ME series with how they rushed ME3). They dropped a huge IP in the lap of an inexperienced, untested development team without strong leadership to guide them and said "have at it." It's like sending new recruits into a heavy combat situation without someone experienced to direct them- it just leads to pure chaos.
It's really telling when they spent 3 and 1/2 of the 5 years stuck in the pre-planning stage until Mac Walters came in and took over. Bioware may have screwed things up a bit, but I feel most of the blame lies squarely on EA.
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Go Team!
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jun 8, 2017 14:05:36 GMT
I think it's pretty easy to figure out what happened. EA made yet another mistake with an IP and development studio that it acquired, something it's already famous for (even in the ME series with how they rushed ME3). They dropped a huge IP in the lap of an inexperienced, untested development team without strong leadership to guide them and said "have at it." It's like sending new recruits into a heavy combat situation without someone experienced to direct them- it just leads to pure chaos. It's really telling when they spent 3 and 1/2 of the 5 years stuck in the pre-planning stage until Mac Walters came in and took over. Bioware may have screwed things up a bit, but I feel most of the blame lies squarely on EA.On this occasion I think you're right yeah.
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Post by finoderi on Jun 8, 2017 14:09:11 GMT
And if you like I could make a long list of games which were nearly unplayable at launch and/or were broken by the patching system, but I have never seen a shitstorm like the one that hit ME:A. Indeed, this game is far from perfect, but it's also far from being so bad. All in all I would rate it 7/10, which in my scale of values means "decent". The more I read forums, articles and blogs the more I believe that there are other reasons behind this hate, or to say better, that people really wanted a reason for hating it, therefore, considering that the perfect game will never exist it was obvious that people would find that reason that they needed. I'm telling you right now I agree with you on that. The bad karma surrounding BioWare at PAX was real. A lot of disgruntled fans were there and they couldn't stop talking crap. Former employees having very loud conversations about how bad Austin turned out. The competition, like Bethesda and CDPR, took advantage of the malcontent. YouTube seemed like it had an axe to grind and of course, BioWare keeps giving them more ammunition to enforce their negative point of view. This is all on EA and BioWare. The competition wants to get BioWare's fanbase and guess what? BioWare is helping them. EA doesn't know crap about assessing the public. Believe me when I say this: When Dylan is announced, the new sh**storm is coming. Everyone with a iPhone will be making YouTube videos as this is going to be some cash grab, an unpolished turd that will never live up to the hype, a copycat formula that failed, etc. Believe me, their are people who have aligned themselves with other companies and would love to humble or even break BioWare. Too many ex-employees, too many butt-hurt fans, too many folks who will take advantage of the hate for click-baiting. This is the bed EA made and BioWare is just as much to blame. It will be a sh**storm, no doubt about that, but if it will turn out to be a good game it wiil be embraced as one. No matter how many youtube clowns will make clickbait videos about it. And if it won't... well... Bioware will be pretty much done for then.
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Wealth beyond measure, Outlander.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR
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Post by Daft Arbiter on Jun 8, 2017 14:14:43 GMT
Given there's always going to be an axe to grind i take the article with a healthy pinch of salt. That said if there ever was an initial plan to make the game a massive empty space full of procedurally generated worlds that seems stupidity of the highest order for a company who's market is highly story driven RPGs I think it's because a few people where saying they would love to see a Bioware game like NMS. Like I remember Angry Joe saying it in his NMS review. I'd rather Activision give the Star Control franchise back to Toys for Bob so they can make an actual sequel to Star Control II, especially considering that the above is almost literally what SCII was.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 14:15:58 GMT
It's a Destiny/Division clone. One of those MMO shooters with very little content and very repetitive but it allows EA to nickel and dime you to get the "full game" like Destiny and Division. Once I heard it was that kind of game I lost interest. Part of me want to see it flop big time because I want Bioware to make RPGs but on the other hand if it does we might be looking at the end of Bioware. If Dylan flops, yeah that will be very bad for BW. Regardless of how MEA and DA4 do. Say hello to Westwood kind of bad. It will mean downsizing at the least. We'll probably see Dragon Age 4 before complete shutdown, its already in production. All Dylan needs to beat its competitors is a good single player experience. Destiny and The Division failed that aspect, hard.
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Daft Arbiter
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Wealth beyond measure, Outlander.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR
Origin: dasriboflavin
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Post by Daft Arbiter on Jun 8, 2017 14:26:20 GMT
If Dylan flops, yeah that will be very bad for BW. Regardless of how MEA and DA4 do. Say hello to Westwood kind of bad. It will mean downsizing at the least. We'll probably see Dragon Age 4 before complete shutdown, its already in production. All Dylan needs to beat its competitors is a good single player experience. Destiny and The Division failed that aspect, hard. Considering that the 2016 game of the year doesn't even have a singleplayer and one of Bioware's main rivals (Bethesda) isn't releasing another game in its flagship series for at least a few more years, the ball is in Bioware's court. If they make a good game, it'll be successful. But if they don't, it's going to look really bad.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 14:27:40 GMT
It will mean downsizing at the least. We'll probably see Dragon Age 4 before complete shutdown, its already in production. All Dylan needs to beat its competitors is a good single player experience. Destiny and The Division failed that aspect, hard. Considering that the 2016 game of the year doesn't even have a singleplayer and one of Bioware's main rivals (Bethesda) isn't releasing another game in its flagship series for at least a few more years, the ball is in Bioware's court. If they make a good game, it'll be successful. But if they don't, it's going to look really bad. The rumor is that Bethesda is releasing a new game this year. A Sci-Fi RPG named Starfield. We'll see at E3, if Todd Howard shows up you can bet Bethesda has a new game coming out late this year, or early next year.
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Post by Elfen Lied on Jun 8, 2017 14:32:39 GMT
The more I read forums, articles and blogs the more I believe that there are other reasons behind this hate, or to say better, that people really wanted a reason for hating it, therefore, considering that the perfect game will never exist it was obvious that people would find that reason that they needed. What "hate" are we talking about here? You mean user scores? Those are par for the course for games in general. If people had high hopes for a game and are disappointed, then they'll throw 1s and 0s at it faster than you can say binary. I, personally, never "hate" a game, but I can find it disappointing, and this article explains some of the reasons why Andromeda didn't live up to its full potential. The constant bashing of the game? The overreaction of the fans for every single matter, even the most trivial ones? The "ME:A is the graveyard of the franchise" wave that many people seems to enjoy riding? I am speaking very openly here: I am convinced that many people wanted this game to fail for two reasons: they are still holding a grudge because of ME3 endings, and they didn't wanted this game to part away from Milky Ways and from the old cast. I have already stated this in another topic and I'll say it again: this is exactly the same thing that happened with DA2. Months before the game was out people were already complaining because they didn't want to leave the warden, people didn't want to be forced to play as a human and so on. The failure of DA2 was already decided, and when the game was released and it had its flaws (because it's obvious that a game must have some flaw) they did every possible thing to bury it under the worst possible shitstorm, and forcing them to quit it down before they could even release the last piece of story. And here the story is just repeating itself. Someone in this topic pointed out that ME:A replicated many of the flaws that DA:I had and I agree that the games are very similar in many ways. Don't you find it strange that in spite of all that flaws (boring fetchquests, empty world, lack of meaningful choices) that game received 293858452233 GOTY while the only thing that this one could get was just an unbelievable amount of spits in its face?
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Post by Iakus on Jun 8, 2017 14:48:18 GMT
Given there's always going to be an axe to grind i take the article with a healthy pinch of salt. That said if there ever was an initial plan to make the game a massive empty space full of procedurally generated worlds that seems stupidity of the highest order for a company who's market is highly story driven RPGs
Which I think Bioware is moving away from. Either Bioware or EA is chasing the money trail and it's not in RPG's. I felt it started with DAI and got even worse with MEA. For me, the characters and story were the worst in that series just like MEA is the worst for me in the ME series. I can draw lots of comparisons between the two and how story and characters took a back seat to open world, world building, and significant changes to combat. MEA just took that concept a bit further than DAI did and what made Bioware great got put on the back burner and now they are paying the price for it. Because the market isn't saturated with shooters at all. Seriously, Bioware needs to look at their past successes, their current failures, and figure out what went wrong. Meanwhile, I'll be tossing money at the Kingmaker Kickstarter.
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Post by Elfen Lied on Jun 8, 2017 15:07:11 GMT
Because the market isn't saturated with shooters at all. Well, at least they won't have to go nuts anymore trying to adapt frostbite for a kind of game it was not specifically created for...
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OdanUrr
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Post by OdanUrr on Jun 8, 2017 15:22:01 GMT
Don't you find it strange that in spite of all that flaws (boring fetchquests, empty world, lack of meaningful choices) that game received 293858452233 GOTY while the only thing that this one could get was just an unbelievable amount of spits in its face? Not really. For all its faults, ME3 was not as bad as DA2 was in many aspects, such as level design, visuals, and narrative, to mention a few. Plus, people had had two (previous) games to grow attached to Shepard and his crew, unlike DA2 which chose to tell a completely new story rather than follow Origins. This gave ME3 an edge that DA2 didn't have. However, precisely because DA2 was markedly inferior, the transition to Inquisition was all the more welcome. The new Frostbite engine was able to render beautiful and expansive (actually, that had to be modded into the engine) landscapes, fixing the repetitive, bland, locations of DA2; customization was brought back and expanded to include a crafting system; the Inquisitor felt a bit (or a lot) more useful than Hawke; etc. These factors combined contributed to people reviewing the game more favourably, ignoring perhaps some of the issues Inquisition shares with Andromeda. For better or worse, Andromeda didn't just have to live up to ME3 (that would've been hard enough to my mind), but the Mass Effect Trilogy as a whole and, to a certain extent, Inquisition as well. After all, they could no longer count on dazzling people with beautiful landscapes, as Inquisition had done that previously so it was now to be expected. Andromeda was also expected to deliver on the promises of exploration of the first Mass Effect game while reconciling a story about defeating some ultimate evil. Fair or not, everything about this game was going to be scrutinized and so it was. To be fair though, and like I mentioned before, Andromeda shares many of the same issues I had with Inquisition. This however, doesn't excuse Andromeda, as one would think newer games are supposed to improve upon the weaknesses of previous ones (I know it's a different franchise and all, but isn't knowledge shared in BioWare?). At the end of the day I still think Andromeda's a good game, just not as great as it could've been, buckling under the weight of everything it hoped to accomplish and, as the article points out, fighting an uphill battle during the development process. If you feel like reading another long piece of analysis on the game, I'll throw mine into the ring: Analyzing Mass Effect: Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Jun 8, 2017 15:37:23 GMT
Someone in this topic pointed out that ME:A replicated many of the flaws that DA:I had and I agree that the games are very similar in many ways. Don't you find it strange that in spite of all that flaws (boring fetchquests, empty world, lack of meaningful choices) that game received 293858452233 GOTY while the only thing that this one could get was just an unbelievable amount of spits in its face? DAI is still a flawed game for me. I think mechanically, it's a huge step backwards with its eight power limit, "streamlined" combat system that makes DA2 look complex, and rather boring side quests. Then of course, there's the bears... However, the companions are, in general, more fleshed out. Their interactions feel more natural. And the Inquisitor has access to a wider range of emotional expressions than Ryder. MEA is also a follow-up to ME3, which got even worse backlash than DA2. And to escape that, they had to do some serious lore-bending to justify this sequel. Something DAI didn't need to do quite as much So yes, the stories are similar. Uncomfortably so in many ways. But DAI was, I think, the better told story.
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Post by isaidlunch on Jun 8, 2017 15:46:23 GMT
What "hate" are we talking about here? You mean user scores? Those are par for the course for games in general. If people had high hopes for a game and are disappointed, then they'll throw 1s and 0s at it faster than you can say binary. I, personally, never "hate" a game, but I can find it disappointing, and this article explains some of the reasons why Andromeda didn't live up to its full potential. Someone in this topic pointed out that ME:A replicated many of the flaws that DA:I had and I agree that the games are very similar in many ways. Don't you find it strange that in spite of all that flaws (boring fetchquests, empty world, lack of meaningful choices) that game received 293858452233 GOTY while the only thing that this one could get was just an unbelievable amount of spits in its face? DAI was far more polished on release and felt like a well-rounded game with more characters, more maps, a better dialogue system, better CC with multiple races and voices etc. It should have been raked over the coals for the combat system though. I don't understand why so many RPGs get away with shitty combat.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
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GIF Addict
Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jun 8, 2017 15:50:20 GMT
Someone in this topic pointed out that ME:A replicated many of the flaws that DA:I had and I agree that the games are very similar in many ways. Don't you find it strange that in spite of all that flaws (boring fetchquests, empty world, lack of meaningful choices) that game received 293858452233 GOTY while the only thing that this one could get was just an unbelievable amount of spits in its face? DAI was far more polished on release and felt like a well-rounded game with more characters, more maps, a better dialogue system, better CC with multiple races and voices etc. It should have been raked over the coals for the combat system though. I don't understand why so many RPGs get away with shitty combat.It's simple they make combat that you don't agree with and they make a lot of money doing so. Opinions, tastes, blah blah blah.
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Post by setokaiba on Jun 8, 2017 15:59:55 GMT
It will mean downsizing at the least. We'll probably see Dragon Age 4 before complete shutdown, its already in production. All Dylan needs to beat its competitors is a good single player experience. Destiny and The Division failed that aspect, hard. Considering that the 2016 game of the year doesn't even have a singleplayer and one of Bioware's main rivals (Bethesda) isn't releasing another game in its flagship series for at least a few more years, the ball is in Bioware's court. If they make a good game, it'll be successful. But if they don't, it's going to look really bad. Rumor is Bethesda is making a new scifi RPG similar to Fallout and Elder Scrolls and it's might be shown at E3.
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Post by suikoden on Jun 8, 2017 16:00:43 GMT
What "hate" are we talking about here? You mean user scores? Those are par for the course for games in general. If people had high hopes for a game and are disappointed, then they'll throw 1s and 0s at it faster than you can say binary. I, personally, never "hate" a game, but I can find it disappointing, and this article explains some of the reasons why Andromeda didn't live up to its full potential. The constant bashing of the game? The overreaction of the fans for every single matter, even the most trivial ones? The "ME:A is the graveyard of the franchise" wave that many people seems to enjoy riding? I am speaking very openly here: I am convinced that many people wanted this game to fail for two reasons: they are still holding a grudge because of ME3 endings, and they didn't wanted this game to part away from Milky Ways and from the old cast. I have already stated this in another topic and I'll say it again: this is exactly the same thing that happened with DA2. Months before the game was out people were already complaining because they didn't want to leave the warden, people didn't want to be forced to play as a human and so on. The failure of DA2 was already decided, and when the game was released and it had its flaws (because it's obvious that a game must have some flaw) they did every possible thing to bury it under the worst possible shitstorm, and forcing them to quit it down before they could even release the last piece of story. And here the story is just repeating itself. Someone in this topic pointed out that ME:A replicated many of the flaws that DA:I had and I agree that the games are very similar in many ways. Don't you find it strange that in spite of all that flaws (boring fetchquests, empty world, lack of meaningful choices) that game received 293858452233 GOTY while the only thing that this one could get was just an unbelievable amount of spits in its face? It's a bad game. With bad writing, bad animations, bad quests, bad storytelling, bad companions... That's why it gets the hate.
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