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Post by abaris on Jun 9, 2017 10:41:15 GMT
As far as we know a large portion of the old BW staff is working on Dylan (and this is one of the reasons behind the decision to entrust ME:A to a junior studio since no one else was free). Therefore Dylan should be a "true BW" work, at least of what remains of it.. and sadly there are many chances that it won't be even a RPG Maybe so. Doesn't change the fact though that I'm not the least bit interested in something being called an online experience. I like to experience my own story, and, apart from competitive and realistic racers, never found any interest in going online. The audience games like that attract are largely not to my liking. I tried it with GTAV and after a few minutes of preeteens bawling homophobic and racist slurs, I quit for good. No, thank you. Never was into online shooters or MMOs, never will be.
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Post by pheabus2005 on Jun 9, 2017 11:05:10 GMT
I've posted this before in another thread but I have to say it again, just look at those prototype characters: Imo they look so much better than the final male Ryder(s), it proves that BioWare can make eye candy characters, they just somehow cut them in the final game. Or maybe those are "too handsome" to be a space jerk like Ryder, I presume?
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Post by Ancient on Jun 9, 2017 11:11:16 GMT
You kinda explain "law of attraction" to a person who understands it better then you. Btw, it should not be called "law of attraction" because you never attract anything. You allow yourself to experience, so it should be called "law of allowance", but that name is not cool enough for some people. To me this game is mediocre, but i don't focus much on that and i don't take it too seriously. And that's the key. In fact i don't play majority of todays games because they are mediocre, simplified, dumbed-down, etc. I ignore them. One can talk about mediocrity or negativity, but the key is not to attach yourself to these concepts which are illusion anyway, especially not to attach emotionally. Certain rules and qualities should be followed in the world of video games. That's what i focus on. Reminds me a little bit of a cconversation between friends, long time ago. One recommended a certain record, the other one replied with he doesn't like the music. Whereas the first friend responded with you're getting used to it. There was only one possible reply to that and #2 gave it: I don't listen to music for getting used to it. Must have been nearly 40 years ago, but I remember that conversation as if it was yesterday. And oh so fitting for this game. I never once called this game bad. It isn't. I call certain aspects bad, and they are. The reality is, I, and probably a whole lot of others, play games like that to escape from everyday life and it's strives and trouble. Just like the record story, I'm not playing games to get used to them but to wholy enjoy the ride I'm taken for. Looking at certain aspects that are well done, while overlooking other things that break your immersion brutally, doesn't cut it. This reality is reality on concepts, philosophies, dualities, etc. And every person has it's own. I define negativity differently then some other person. Some people say this is negative, bad, mediocre. I say and think that it's "different" which is more accurate, even if i write that it is mediocre, etc. It is actually matter of understanding, contemplation. This reality is also reality of creation. Kinda obvious. And to create you need certain rules. As i said before; certain rules and qualities should be followed in the world of video games. That's what i focus on. Well actually you can get used to listen music and love it later. It requires some work. But you can also have rules within music.
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Post by deso on Jun 9, 2017 11:23:48 GMT
Isin't somehow strange, that Kotaku got allways first news from Bioware?
Also this prooves only, that BW Montreal was not ready for this project. I would rather wait even ten years for new ME, than got an trash like is now.
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Post by mmoblitz on Jun 9, 2017 11:35:35 GMT
Dylan, same as SWTOR hasn't me the least bit concerned. I'm not interested at all, by all we know about the IP. You also have to keep in mind it's not Bioware expanding. It's the mother company EA slapping the label Bioware on studios left, right and center. The revolving door that everyone can observe, even without that article, does the rest. There's no consistency and there's obviously a reason why talent is leaving in droves. As far as we know a large portion of the old BW staff is working on Dylan (and this is one of the reasons behind the decision to entrust ME:A to a junior studio since no one else was free). Therefore Dylan should be a "true BW" work, at least of what remains of it.. and sadly there are many chances that it won't be even a RPG That's exactly what I was thinking (the money isn't in the SP RPG anymore, and money rules all decisions) and it really depresses me. Not just the shift away from story/character to focus on landscape design and comabt (which I admit is much improved and much more fun to play), but also the focus on Multiplayer. I really don't want to play competitively online. I don't ever play the multiplayer mode. I'm just not interested in it, even when it leads to SP rewards, but so much marketing for MEA focuses on Multiplayer and it worries me about the future vision/focus of Bioware and SP RPG games in general. Though the Witcher 3 proved that people are still interested, thankfully... RPG genre is not going to die soon. Maybe AAA titles nowadays are going to be more and more streamlined but I don't think that companies like CDPR and Bethesda are planning to leave SP games anytime and in addition we have the indy market for old school games. Just because BW may shift towards other genres it doesn't mean that everybody else will do the same thing. Though, if classical RPG games made by Bioware are your favourite ones, maybe you are going to face a hard time. Bethesda has already shown the direction they are heading as well. In FO4 they streamlined the RPG aspect of the game and gave all focus on combat, world building, and open world to the determent of story/characters just like Bioware has done. The only reason I believe that Bethesda didn't get slammed as hard as MEA is the modding aspect of their games. They provide support and the tools to do it where Bioware doesn't. CDPR is the only one left of the AAA companies that I have any hope for.
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Post by kumazan on Jun 9, 2017 11:38:38 GMT
I've posted this before in another thread but I have to say it again, just look at those prototype characters: Imo they look so much better than the final male Ryder(s), it proves that BioWare can make eye candy characters, they just somehow cut them in the final game. Or maybe those are "too handsome" to be a space jerk like Ryder, I presume? That's concept art, which is always, for just about every game, wildly superior to the final product. Because, of course, it doesn't have to meet the restrictions of the engine the game is built in, and the hardware it's built for.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jun 9, 2017 11:45:28 GMT
I've posted this before in another thread but I have to say it again, just look at those prototype characters: Imo they look so much better than the final male Ryder(s), it proves that BioWare can make eye candy characters, they just somehow cut them in the final game. Or maybe those are "too handsome" to be a space jerk like Ryder, I presume? That's concept art, which is always, for just about every game, wildly superior to the final product. Because, of course, it doesn't have to meet the restrictions of the engine the game is built in, and the hardware it's built for. Concept art is nice and all, but I could care less. It's what the engine is showing me that counts. You can whip this up in Photoshop or whatever current software there is today, but it doesn't mean squat if it's not translated into the engine itself. With that being said, give BioWare more time to whip Frostbite into shape and that art will be a reality. I can see BioWare 2.0 doing this type of work down the road.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jun 9, 2017 11:52:59 GMT
As far as we know a large portion of the old BW staff is working on Dylan (and this is one of the reasons behind the decision to entrust ME:A to a junior studio since no one else was free). Therefore Dylan should be a "true BW" work, at least of what remains of it.. and sadly there are many chances that it won't be even a RPG RPG genre is not going to die soon. Maybe AAA titles nowadays are going to be more and more streamlined but I don't think that companies like CDPR and Bethesda are planning to leave SP games anytime and in addition we have the indy market for old school games. Just because BW may shift towards other genres it doesn't mean that everybody else will do the same thing. Though, if classical RPG games made by Bioware are your favourite ones, maybe you are going to face a hard time. Bethesda has already shown the direction they are heading as well. In FO4 they streamlined the RPG aspect of the game and gave all focus on combat, world building, and open world to the determent of story/characters just like Bioware has done. The only reason I believe that Bethesda didn't get slammed as hard as MEA is the modding aspect of their games. They provide support and the tools to do it where Bioware doesn't. CDPR is the only one left of the AAA companies that I have any hope for.That's big, though. Modding opens up the vanilla game to your liking especially if you love to roleplay. I personally modded EVERY SCENE or LEVEL in Origins using the toolset provided. I felt like I was in complete control of the canvas once I understood what each of the variables meant (thanks in part to Mass Effect Wiki). Losing that type of control sucks. However, Fallout 4 vanilla, is a flat 6. The settlement building sucked. It completely drains me because I'm so detailed. Thanks to modding, I can import someone else's settlements and keep the game flowing. With that said, with the GECK, Fallout 4 is an 8. If modding was allowed, even just for PC Master Race, the threads here would be filled with solutions and more desktop-worthy artwork. I keep watching that thread about Frostbite tools with drooling anticipation.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Jun 9, 2017 11:55:24 GMT
Man, this thread is sad. We have salty Bioware loyalists getting worked out over the article, dismissing the troubling reality the franchise lives right now just because they enjoyed the game just like I did, and the people who think this is literally the end of times because they're also butthurt over something Bioware did to their lives some time ago. The fact is, Mass Effect ANDROMEDA is far away from the reception they wished to receive, and it will be remembered as a disappointment of a messy game in the long run, tarnishing even more what once was one of gaming's finest franchises, but if DA2 got a sequel, this can too, people are too worried thinking their doomsday prophecy actually matters to anyone, as if they're some executive at EA, but that's the internet for you, a bunch of hyperbolic grown ass people having a dick measure contest over the most trivial stuff you can find here. As for the article, it seems pretty spot on, it makes even more sense with early leaks of the game, delay, and short marketing. I enjoyed the game very much, it's not my favorite, but it's good. Am I disappointed with the reception? Hell yes. Does it make sense? Yes. Should I care that much? A bit, but I have the game with me, it's there. Nobody's taking it away. It's done now. It is what it is, unfortunately. Hopefully the new IP can blow everyone's mind again. This bolded bit makes me laugh. Most people would correct you and say ME3 tarnished the franchise. Also, whether the franchise is actually tarnished or not is a matter of personal opinion, not fact. ME:A was, to me, ME1 2.0 A game going in a different directions that was a diamond-in-the-rough, who's technical issues unfortunately managed to outweigh the postitive aspects of the game. I'm hoping whatever Andromeda game does come next (and there will be another) will be somthing like ME2 2.5 ME3 was critically acclaimed and probably sold much more than MEA. If that makes you laugh, you have a stupid sense of humor. It is a fact, just deal with it. What you think ≠ from the state this game currently lives in. You just proved my point, another one refusing to see it just because you enjoyed the game. Flash news, I also did. It amazes me how people are fine with a Mass Effect game having a 71 review score, I don't agree with it, but it's a thing. There's no conspiracy, MEA doesn't handle a candle to the likes of TW3, BOTW and HZD in gaming memory, unfortunately.
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Post by abaris on Jun 9, 2017 11:57:27 GMT
Isin't somehow strange, that Kotaku got allways first news from Bioware? Not strange at all. As a journalist you have your network of sources. In this case it seems Bioware sources. I don't know if it's that particular author or the whole outlet, but having worked in journalism, I don't consider that strange at all. In fact it's what you do to get stories. Probably specialising on the way.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 12:12:17 GMT
This bolded bit makes me laugh. Most people would correct you and say ME3 tarnished the franchise. Also, whether the franchise is actually tarnished or not is a matter of personal opinion, not fact. ME:A was, to me, ME1 2.0 A game going in a different directions that was a diamond-in-the-rough, who's technical issues unfortunately managed to outweigh the postitive aspects of the game. I'm hoping whatever Andromeda game does come next (and there will be another) will be somthing like ME2 2.5 ME3 was critically acclaimed and probably sold much more than MEA. If that makes you laugh, you have a stupid sense of humor. It is a fact, just deal with it. What you think ≠ from the state this game currently lives in. You just proved my point, another one refusing to see it just because you enjoyed the game. Flash news, I also did. It amazes me how people are fine with a Mass Effect game having a 71 review score, I don't agree with it, but it's a thing. There's no conspiracy, MEA doesn't handle a candle to the likes of TW3, BOTW and HZD in gaming memory, unfortunately. I would say I'm anything but fine with that score... it's too low for this particular game. I'm not saying the game is a 90, but it is a better game than a 71. Many of the reviewers to gave extremely negative reviews were notably biased against this game in their reports for months or even a year or two before the game was released. The language and tone of their reports is also notably different than when they report on negative elements they've seen in other games. They set out ahead of time to prove up all their negative predictions rather than sampling and reviewing the game objectively. They deserve to loose credibility for that sort of reporting. They deserve to lose readers. People starting up playthroughs on YouTube have indicated at the start of their playthroughs have indicated that they've been put off by the reviews and multitude of memes floating about the internet... that's not the game itself killing their interest... it's the tone of the reports. People do deserve to know that this game is better than it has been advertised to be... that it is quite possible to really enjoy playing this game. It may not be a conspiracy... but that doesn't mean that the reporting on this game has not be unfairly biased... it has.
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Post by abaris on Jun 9, 2017 12:21:07 GMT
I would say I'm anything but fine with that score... it's too low for this particular game. I think 71 is pretty much spot on. The reasons why it came to that rating may be off in some cases, but I wouldn't rate it any higher than that. My score would probably be even lower. Everyone talks as if a score of 70+ was something bad. That's entirely down to the industry more or less handing a score of 80+ to every AAA title. People aren't used anymore to more realistic score. 71 doesn't say this game is bad. It says, it's pretty much above average. More than 20 notches above average, as it is, with 50 being the base line. It doesn't deserve anything in the 80ies, let alone the 90ies. Not because of some agenda, not because of animations, but because of lack of content. There are a lot of fetch quests and generic ones, but the story is meh and the character also. Judged not against other game companies, but against Bioware's previous efforts. It's a fun game, but nothing memorable and nothing really to invite numerous replays.
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Post by llandwynwyn on Jun 9, 2017 12:22:39 GMT
The question is, how does EA sees Mass Effect's future as of now? If it gets a dlc, how fast and well it sells will decide its fate. I doubt EA will decide Mass Effect's fate on how well its DLC sells. You're right, it'll be a combination of the sales of the game, the sales of dlc, and maybe the results with a testing group. EA just cares about money.
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Post by OdanUrr on Jun 9, 2017 12:23:37 GMT
I doubt EA will decide Mass Effect's fate on how well its DLC sells. You're right, it'll be a combination of the sales of the game, the sales of dlc, and maybe the results with a testing group. EA just cares about money. About that, do we have any concrete numbers about how well the game sold?
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Post by pheabus2005 on Jun 9, 2017 12:27:17 GMT
I've posted this before in another thread but I have to say it again, just look at those prototype characters: Imo they look so much better than the final male Ryder(s), it proves that BioWare can make eye candy characters, they just somehow cut them in the final game. Or maybe those are "too handsome" to be a space jerk like Ryder, I presume? That's concept art, which is always, for just about every game, wildly superior to the final product. Because, of course, it doesn't have to meet the restrictions of the engine the game is built in, and the hardware it's built for. You may be right, the hair in the pic is far superior to what we saw in game, face textures slightly better too, I did't expect all these could be in the final game, because of, as you've said, technical restrictions. But I think what make the most difference between this and the in-game chars are the face meshes, even without the superior hair and slightly better textures, the characters' modeling in picture is way more aesthetically pleasing than in-game counterpart, I still feel it's more an art direction issue than actual engine restrictions.
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Post by abaris on Jun 9, 2017 12:28:45 GMT
You're right, it'll be a combination of the sales of the game, the sales of dlc, and maybe the results with a testing group. EA just cares about money. Begs the question, what do you expect from any large game developer or publisher? These are shareholder companies. Of course they only care about revenue. As far as DLCs are concerned, the sales of the main game in comparison to expected revenues in the original business plan will decide if DLCs are even produced. There's a fair chance that one was already in the late stages of production when the game was released. If that's the case, it will be finished. And add to testing the water if further production costs and manpower are warranted.
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Post by Elfen Lied on Jun 9, 2017 12:34:56 GMT
No, thank you. Never was into online shooters or MMOs, never will be. Neither will I. Here's why I hope that this "Dylan" will be at least an hybrid, with RPG elements, a strong SP component and a good story. If it turns out a simple clone of Destiny or The Division they can keep it to themselves. CDPR is the only one left of the AAA companies that I have any hope for. Maybe someone else will rise. Of course you need talent for that, and also resources and perhaps a bit of luck too. When they released TW1 CDPR wasn't bigger than Topware (just to name one of the many companies that have never been able to step it up a level)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 12:44:10 GMT
I would say I'm anything but fine with that score... it's too low for this particular game. I think 71 is pretty much spot on. The reasons why it came to that rating may be off in some cases, but I wouldn't rate it any higher than that. My score would probably be even lower. Everyone talks as if a score of 70+ was something bad. That's entirely down to the industry more or less handing a score of 80+ to every AAA title. People aren't used anymore to more realistic score. 71 doesn't say this game is bad. It says, it's pretty much above average. More than 20 notches above average, as it is, with 50 being the base line. It doesn't deserve anything in the 80ies, let alone the 90ies. Not because of some agenda, not because of animations, but because of lack of content. There are a lot of fetch quests and generic ones, but the story is meh and the character also. Judged not against other game companies, but against Bioware's previous efforts. It's a fun game, but nothing memorable and nothing really to invite numerous replays. When they are, as you say, handing out an 80s score to everyone else... a 70s score is off the curve and indicates a bias. Grade creep has been going on in the school system for years, but aberrations like this, unless things are really bad, usually just indicate a bias. The game is not that bad. It's better than an average AAA game... more fun, more interesting, more varied things to do in it, and provides Bioware's marked style of allowing the player to shape the PC with different personalities. It deserves at least the "average" AAA score. There are still bugs in TW3... I was getting ghosting, stuck in walls, had quests that locked and had to be restarted. It also has it's share of "guffaw" lines and some conversations don't flow right when selections are pressed in different orders. In other words... despite being a game that scored well into the 90s, it still has many of the bugs that ME:A got totally trashed into the low 70s for having. That's shows a bias... a bias that was clearly evident long before ME:A was ever released. A bias that media, IMO, became more interested in justifying than it did in fairly reviewing the game. If you're going to argue that a low 70s scores is "spot on" for ME:A, you should also be arguing that a high 90s score for TW3 is too high and that all the AAA games that score in the 80s should be scored in the 70s instead.
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Post by llandwynwyn on Jun 9, 2017 12:46:15 GMT
You're right, it'll be a combination of the sales of the game, the sales of dlc, and maybe the results with a testing group. EA just cares about money. Begs the question, what do you expect from any large game developer or publisher? These are shareholder companies. Of course they only care about revenue. As far as DLCs are concerned, the sales of the main game in comparison to expected revenues in the original business plan will decide if DLCs are even produced. There's a fair chance that one was already in the late stages of production when the game was released. If that's the case, it will be finished. And add to testing the water if further production costs and manpower are warranted. Thus why I said what I did. Money (and the potential of it) is what may save Mass Effect, nothing else. Nowhere did I imply that EA should make games for art or any nonsense.
That DLC is on its way, we all know. Ofc, it can be cancelled but it hasn't been yet, or so it seems. But being made and being successful are two different things, if it fails to sell well that's it for MEA. If it doesn't sell, EA may see ME as done. You have the ME3 ending fiasco, that wasn't enough to hurt sales; but MEA was just a mess release and it's seem by the general public as a joke. Even places that are BioWare friendly mem'd it to hell and back. So you have a IP with a tarnished image. Very similar to DA2 (though it had an instant cult following, dividing the fanbase to this day). What is the deciding factor to its future then? How well it sells, how well its dlc sells, how much they think they can make in the future with it.
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Post by abaris on Jun 9, 2017 12:48:48 GMT
If you're going to argue that a low 70s scores is "spot on" for ME:A, you should also be arguing that a high 90s score for TW3 is too high and that all the AAA games that score in the 80s should be scored in the 70s instead. Yeah, you should. This is a realistic score as opposed to many others I've seen.
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Post by abaris on Jun 9, 2017 12:52:35 GMT
You have the ME3 ending fiasco, that wasn't enough to hurt sales; but MEA was just a mess release and it's seem by the general public as a joke. Even places that are BioWare friendly mem'd it to hell and back. So you have a IP with a tarnished image. Very similar to DA2 (though it had an instant cult following, dividing the fanbase to this day). What is the deciding factor to its future then? How well it sells, how well its dlc sells, how much they think they can make in the future with it. DLCs won't be produced if the expected revenues don't justify the costs. We're not privy to their expectations when they set out to produce MEA. Sales in themselves don't tell us anything in terms of company and shareholder expectations.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 12:54:59 GMT
If you're going to argue that a low 70s scores is "spot on" for ME:A, you should also be arguing that a high 90s score for TW3 is too high and that all the AAA games that score in the 80s should be scored in the 70s instead. Yeah, you should. This is a realistic score as opposed to many others I've seen. So why aren't you. TW3 then doesn't deserve the score it got. It should be lower. Saying that ME:A deserves to be higher when the average curve is higher doesn't make me arbitrarily blind to it's faults. It's a game I'm enjoying playing. It's a game I'll complete and a game I'll play again and again. I did not enjoy TW3 despite all the rave reviews it got and the "TW3 is boss" hypers that frequent this site. I also know it has bugs... two years after release that CDPR should have had ample time to fix them. It deserved a lower score than it got.
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Post by abaris on Jun 9, 2017 12:57:41 GMT
So why aren't you. TW3 then doesn't deserve the score it got. It should be lower. Kindly reread what I said previously about the indsutry. Other than that, why would I judge TW3. I haven't played it, nor will I play it. I explicitly said, which a good and careful read of my previous post would reveal, I'm judging it against previous Bioware efforts. Clear enough?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 13:09:24 GMT
So why aren't you. TW3 then doesn't deserve the score it got. It should be lower. Kindly reread what I said previously about the indsutry. Other than that, why would I judge TW3. I haven't played it, nor will I play it. I explicitly said, which a good and careful read of my previous post would reveal, I'm judging it against previous Bioware efforts. Clear enough? The curve was different when those previous Bioware efforts were ranked. TW3 is ranked "off the curve" in the other direction. I'm also of the opinion that, in many respects, ME:A is a better effort than previous Bioware efforts. They improved on a lot and the game is larger and far more complex than any of the MET games. They did (correction: did not) get the facial animations better in ME3, but after patching ME:A, I don't see where they are any worse than ME2 and they are certainly a big improvement over ME1. Starscape design is certainly very good. The planet designs are also very good... I'm not seeing where people get off saying they are all barren deserted when I'm currently engaged in the jungles of Havarl. I'm not finding the side quests boring at all. I'm enjoying the puzzle solving (sudoku) and, mostly, I'm enjoying being able to shape the personality of my PC. I haven't played DA series, so I'm not ranking it. I'm a huge fan of the old Trilogy... I've played it through more than 30 times and will certainly play it again several more times. I'm also looking forward to future installments of ME:A. They are different stories... and that makes it even more exciting for me. MET was a war story. This one is not and I'm enjoying it immensely. It beats ME1 for exploration value hands down.
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Post by Elfen Lied on Jun 9, 2017 13:27:48 GMT
When they are, as you say, handing out an 80s score to everyone else... a 70s score is off the curve and indicates a bias. Grade creep has been going on in the school system for years, but aberrations like this, unless things are really bad, usually just indicate a bias. The game is not that bad. It's better than an average AAA game... more fun, more interesting, more varied things to do in it, and provides Bioware's marked style of allowing the player to shape the PC with different personalities. It deserves at least the "average" AAA score. There are still bugs in TW3... I was getting ghosting, stuck in walls, had quests that locked and had to be restarted. It also has it's share of "guffaw" lines and some conversations don't flow right when selections are pressed in different orders. In other words... despite being a game that scored well into the 90s, it still has many of the bugs that ME:A got totally trashed into the low 70s for having. That's shows a bias... a bias that was clearly evident long before ME:A was ever released. A bias that media, IMO, became more interested in justifying than it did in fairly reviewing the game. If you're going to argue that a low 70s scores is "spot on" for ME:A, you should also be arguing that a high 90s score for TW3 is too high and that all the AAA games that score in the 80s should be scored in the 70s instead. I must agree with that, even if TW3 is my favorite "modern era" game. For a whole week after the release the game was almost unplayable on many systems. Some glitched quest remained broken for months, and Skellige map was more boring and painful to explore than the worse map from DA:I/ME:A combined. Sometimes I had to restart because my Geralt was stucked in some place. This could happen often when sliding down from mountains. But all these things were mostly overshadowed by reviewers and fans, while ME:A was bashed for every single flaw. A difference of 20 points is too much, if TW3 is 90 (and DA:I is 85!!) ME:A should be around 80. If ME:A is 70, DA:I should be 75 and TW3 80. The fairer imho would be the first one (90/85/80).
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