SpaceBard
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Post by SpaceBard on Jun 11, 2017 2:26:06 GMT
One of the things that most contributed to the MEA result was the Frostbyte3 engine limitation, the development team focused on implementing the exploration system and them spent three years developong to decide, in the end, that they would throw away that idea, at this moment the script had not been written until this part of the story, only the Mac Walters draft a basic ideia. This coupled with a number of factors that contributed to this drama like to the Montreal team's lack of experience, important people leaving...
Frostbyte is good at bringing cutting edge graphics, but the problem is that it was created by DICE that optimized it for first-person shooter games, but it does not give more freedom to other gameplay systems. I think the best option would be to use UnrealEngine as in OT or CryEngine which is the same as Star Citizen. And Star Citizen has the procedural (I writed correctly?) exploration system like No man's Sky. Montreal spent so much time (3 years, I think) to implement this system on Frostbyte3 and failed.
Here comes EA ordering them to do things with Frostbyte. Bioware already suffered from DAI development and worsened with MEA.
And that was even a disappointment for me, figuring out that the new chapter in Mass Effect would not run under the DirectX 12 API.
Just to put the cherry on the cake: Guess what Anthem is based on.
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Nightlife
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Missing the Milky Way
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Post by Nightlife on Jun 11, 2017 4:29:35 GMT
As I have said before, story and characters are the most important things to me in games, and in general in entertainment. I don't care about going forward if I don't find the characters interesting or care about them, or why they are doing things (hence the story). For ME:A, these were the two weakest elements. Gameplay was fun but I didn't care about what I was doing. In the OT, I did care due to better characters and story.
We all play games for different reasons, but these are mine. So I won't be playing ME:A again, as I didn't enjoy it the first time, for these reasons.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 5:40:49 GMT
They designed and manufactured the Ford Pinto in less than 18 months. It was a car, it ran, but I'm pretty sure the customers weren't happy when they found out getting rear-ended gave a high chance of dying in a fireball from the gas tank exploding. It's like having a work assignment, you were given a month to do, and then banging it out 3 days before the deadline, with just enough to keep you from getting fired. They had a 60 month development cycle. The fact that they wasted the first 42 months isn't anything to give them kudos for. You don't trust a videogame with your and your families life, and don't pay thousands of *incert currency here* for it. I get your point and I will certainly be more careful when buying their games, but I don't blame them for this. Mainly because their original ideas were scrapped by EA and this was the one to get approval 18 mounts prior to release
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 5:46:42 GMT
If that article is accurate, it means Bioware Montreal has developed this game in 18 months. The first time this game came out I found it OK, but after reading that article I understood that I have never been this wrong in my life. Developing a game like this in 18 months or so while having other problems during that period, is a goddamn massive accomplishment especially for a relatively unexprienced studio and they should get a throphy for it. I just wated to say that I was wrong and I feel sorry for it You (or indeed any of us) weren't wrong or have anything to be sorry for in the least. We all purchased/played a game we thought had 5 years of solid development and work put into it, only to find less than half actually went into it. Anyone with a brain knew that after the damage caused by ME3's ending, the next ME game would have to be top-notch to even have a chance of being a hit. Yet they still somehow let the process drift aimlessly for years! That for me is completely inexcusable even factoring out the ME3 ending factor. The fact they released this game in the state it was shows how dumb and easily pleased they think we are. The only thing the article changed for me was I shifted my blame for all this squarely from the creative people, to the management allowing things to get this bad. That's true, but I felt sorry for throwing all the shit at bioware not for my entire complains. I will certainly be more careful when buying BW games in the future but continioustly bashing one of the best game developers out there seems just wrong now. I mean, this game is made by their side studio in 18 months that's dammned impressive
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 5:59:16 GMT
I care about the final product, not the process of making it. And the final product is not very impressive. That's true but just like DA2 it is the work of the publisher that the game is in the state it is now. I just took a portion of the blaming from bioware and moved it to ea
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 6:00:28 GMT
Why people don't post their reviews in the review thread? Lazy? Among other things
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Jun 11, 2017 6:31:10 GMT
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Post by suikoden on Jun 11, 2017 7:55:45 GMT
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Post by Sairys on Jun 11, 2017 7:56:42 GMT
Gawd this makes me sad. And I hate the direction of mindless multi-player. I have this horrible foreboding that single player RPG's are going to be a thing of the past until there is very little left but a overbloating of multi-player shooter games. And as for Anthem (aka Dylan) I'm not pre-ordering it and likely won't buy it. I'll buy DA4 because I NEED to find out what the rest of Inquisition saga, what happens when the hunt moves to Tevinter, but other than that, as a once loyal fan-girl of Bioware, I will never pre-order a game from them again.
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Post by abaris on Jun 11, 2017 9:18:45 GMT
I really have to play this damn thing but having to buy a Nintendo to do so is problematic. I guess it also depends if you're even interested in that kind of game. I appreciate that many people consider it a very good game, but I'm not interested in it's setting. So I probably wouln't find it as good as the others.
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Elfen Lied
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Fatebinder
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Post by Elfen Lied on Jun 11, 2017 9:20:13 GMT
Gawd this makes me sad. And I hate the direction of mindless multi-player. I have this horrible foreboding that single player RPG's are going to be a thing of the past until there is very little left but a overbloating of multi-player shooter games. ... People have been saying this for years now.
But the truth is that as long that there is a market for something, it's not going to disappear completely, no matter what.
Even if large companies stopped making SP games, we are still likely to see smaller companies using things like crowd funding to so.
So be it. If that's the result of RPG going mainstream perhaps to go back being a niche market might be the best option.
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Post by abaris on Jun 11, 2017 9:47:57 GMT
So be it. If that's the result of RPG going mainstream perhaps to go back being a niche market might be the best option. It already happens with Obsidian or Larian. Their games probably aren't everyone's cup of tea, since Obsidian using isometric views and it takes a lot of reading instead of voiced characters, but they're more or less producing old school RPGs.
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Post by abaris on Jun 11, 2017 9:53:55 GMT
At least it tells a believable and comprehensive story of what most likely happened. Also it hasn't been denied by the commpanies and persons involved. Which most certainly would have happened if there had been something to deny. Yeah, they lower downs deserve credit for delivering at least an OK game and not a total trainwreck, given the circumstances.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 11, 2017 10:02:48 GMT
Gawd this makes me sad. And I hate the direction of mindless multi-player. I have this horrible foreboding that single player RPG's are going to be a thing of the past until there is very little left but a overbloating of multi-player shooter games. I don't think singleplayer story-driven games are going anywhere anytime soon. The real question is who will be the ones making them in the future.
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Post by Elfen Lied on Jun 11, 2017 10:07:01 GMT
So be it. If that's the result of RPG going mainstream perhaps to go back being a niche market might be the best option. It already happens with Obsidian or Larian. Their games probably aren't everyone's cup of tea, since Obsidian using isometric views and it takes a lot of reading instead of voiced characters, but they're more or less producing old school RPGs. Indeed. Those games/companies can be the salvation for many of us. Still, I feel sorry for all those players who cannot adapt to that kind of gameplay. And if the future of RPG games will be choosing between old school cRPG and action/RPG games hybrids full of MMO features I wouldn't be in their place.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Jun 11, 2017 11:09:18 GMT
I want DLC, and I sure as heck want them to continue the Mass Effect series! EA, please have faith in the series!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 11:13:01 GMT
It already happens with Obsidian or Larian. Their games probably aren't everyone's cup of tea, since Obsidian using isometric views and it takes a lot of reading instead of voiced characters, but they're more or less producing old school RPGs. Indeed. Those games/companies can be the salvation for many of us. Still, I feel sorry for all those players who cannot adapt to that kind of gameplay. And if the future of RPG games will be choosing between old school cRPG and action/RPG games hybrids full of MMO features I wouldn't be in their place. To be honest i am just glad that i like both. Then again that is the selfish perspective. Well the original Mass Effect trilogy isn't going anywhere, neither are any of the other Bioware games. We can still replay them and talk about the good old days.
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Post by abaris on Jun 11, 2017 11:19:56 GMT
I want DLC, and I sure as heck want them to continue the Mass Effect series! EA, please have faith in the series! Makes no difference either way. It boils down to a very simple question: Do they expect to make a significant revenue, based on how the main game reception met their expectations and based on their market research concerning future titles? As compared to development costs and manpower tied into the effort, that is.
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Sanunes
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 11, 2017 11:33:21 GMT
My problem with the article is that frankly I am having a hard time putting aside some of the comments that Jason Schreier has made publicly about some things. If there was another website that could independently verify what he has found out then it would be better, but unfortunately with his history of making edits to his articles and comments he has personally made online I need additional proof before I will remove any doubt from what he is saying. Just like with what a game developer/publisher says I don't take them at their word either I need collaboration for what they are saying.
Just a bit of a background on my feelings towards the author. Back in April Polygon ran an article talking about how four developers were upset at his comments about Horizon, how he went to social media talking about how he was upset because they were trying to make an issue where there really wasn't one while trying to stick up for him. Now at the same time we have to take his word that developers aren't just trying to make EA/BioWare look bad in the process, but he takes those people at their word and writes and article that feels like he is jumping to conclusions.
Edit: Clarity.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jun 11, 2017 11:50:26 GMT
I want DLC, and I sure as heck want them to continue the Mass Effect series! EA, please have faith in the series! Let's hope we get some news soon on this subject.
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Post by abaris on Jun 11, 2017 12:39:59 GMT
The fact that Bioware/EA haven't responded to anything, this article or the one that claimed that ME was being put on ice, lends some credence to it as well.
It lends every credence to the article. Same as them responding earlier to the downsizing rumor. The reply was bundelling our resources to work on other exciting products. Now let me clarify. Since 1997 I worked as senior editor for a magazine reporting on advertising and PR. You learn to speak corporate and PR when doing this job. Otherwise you wouldn't understand even a single corporate statement. The above about bundelling resources and exciting new products is as clear as they can be in confirming the rumors while trying to give the message a positive spin.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jun 11, 2017 12:54:23 GMT
My problem with the article is that frankly I am having a hard time putting aside some of the comments that Jason Schreier has made publicly about some things. If there was another website that could independently verify what he has found out then it would be better, but unfortunately with his history of making edits to his articles and comments he has personally made online I need additional proof before I will remove any doubt from what he is saying. Just like with what a game developer/publisher says I don't take them at their word either I need collaboration for what they are saying. Just a bit of a background on my feelings towards the author. Back in April Polygon ran an article talking about how four developers were upset at his comments about Horizon, how he went to social media talking about how he was upset because they were trying to make an issue where there really wasn't one while trying to stick up for him. Now at the same time we have to take his word that developers aren't just trying to make EA/BioWare look bad in the process, but he takes those people at their word and writes and article that feels like he is jumping to conclusions. Edit: Clarity. This isn't about Polygon, Kotaku (both of which tend to produce some real head scratchers from time to time), or a particular writer and your dislike for him, this is about an article that simply makes too much sense everything considered. The fact that Bioware/EA haven't responded to anything, this article or the one that claimed that ME was being put on ice, lends some credence to it as well.
And this is where I start to spit venom at EA's ridiculous, excused-filled Marketing team. They used to know what they're doing, but since EA (and since EA are snake oil salesmen at carnivals in real life) looks at consumers as cattle, who could properly market something from EA? I'm willing to throw a lot of my disposable income at BioWare, but only if they deserve it. Right now, it's a big, fat Drack, "No..." I'm not preordering anything from BioWare. I'm only interested in the DLC because the patches on Andromeda warrant more investigation into the canvas they painted for us. I'm ready for the DLC, but I'm also hoping that the creative talent that remained (and who matters the most to me) are still there and producing. They're veterans now and if I was a competitor, I'd be looking to "poach" those resources because they know how to deliver when everyone else is running for the exit.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 11, 2017 13:22:57 GMT
This isn't about Polygon, Kotaku (both of which tend to produce some real head scratchers from time to time), or a particular writer and your dislike for him, this is about an article that simply makes too much sense everything considered. The fact that Bioware/EA haven't responded to anything, this article or the one that claimed that ME was being put on ice, lends some credence to it as well.
I think those things matter if the article is being used as proof in the arguments, if people want to talk about their personal concerns I have no problem with that. They did respond to the downsizing argument. They said they are moving people to Motion and BioWare Edmonton, but those moves make sense for I remember people being pissed at EA when they would fire over half their staff at the end of a game's development. Andrew Wilson has said back in May they are still committed to Mass Effect before that article, but after the primary sales window. Andrew WilsonPersonal Shift at MontrealI think it really boils down to "we don't comment on rumours" type of approach I have seen elsewhere to prevent people from saying "I heard a rumour" and then expecting EA to confirm or deny it.
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Post by abaris on Jun 11, 2017 13:35:40 GMT
They did respond to the downsizing argument. They said they are moving people to Motion and BioWare Edmonton, but those moves make sense for I remember people being pissed at EA when they would fire over half their staff at the end of a game's development. Andrew Wilson has said back in May they are still committed to Mass Effect before that article, but after the primary sales window. Yes, they said all of that. I'm very much aware that people don't accept arguments against taking these statements at face value. They don't speak corporate, they don't speak PR, which is the whole purpose of these fields existing. They present nice words to keep their audience hooked. What I find ironic is, that people are more eager to lap up PR filtered company statements but not an obviously researched story, just because what they are told doesn't fit their own desired narrative. A company not replying to this latest kotaku article is something unimaginable. First there are laws against slandering. So if this guy pulled this story out of his ass, he could be sued. Any journalist knows this. Secondly, if this was untrue, the company would issue a statement denying every single line in that article. That would be business as usual and business as required if there was something to deny. They choose to remain silent, since there's nothing they could possibly say without furtherly exposing themselves to questioning. Also business as usual.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 11, 2017 13:48:02 GMT
Yes, they said all of that. I'm very much aware that people don't accept arguments against taking these statements at face value. They don't speak corporate, they don't speak PR, which is the whole purpose of these fields existing. They present nice words to keep their audience hooked. What I find ironic is, that people are more eager to lap up PR filtered company statements but not an obviously researched story, just because what they are told doesn't fit their own desired narrative. A company not replying to this latest kotaku article is something unimaginable. First there are laws against slandering. So if this guy pulled this story out of his ass, he could be sued. Any journalist knows this. Secondly, if this was untrue, the company would issue a statement denying every single line in that article. That would be business as usual and business as required if there was something to deny. They choose to remain silent, since there's nothing they could possibly say without furtherly exposing themselves to questioning. Also business as usual. Of course they are speaking PR, but at the same time the article seems like he is twisting thing to me as well, which is why I said before I would like to see a second independent source for the information. If you don't want to take what EA says at face value that is fine, but I think I have the right to not fully believe the article isn't twisting what is happening until I can see some collaboration with a different source. I don't think companies respond to articles like this all the time. I don't remember Activision responding to this guys article about Destiny, but I could be remembering wrong since it has been awhile.
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