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Post by abaris on Jun 7, 2017 18:27:49 GMT
Nothing say romantic like wearing a wife beater and headphones And the only thing left to the imagination is the smell of old sweat and musk.
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Post by goishen on Jun 7, 2017 18:27:56 GMT
That reply about the DLC contradicts a lot with DLC being hinted at, so I really don't trust him. How so? Yes, Andromeda hints at future DLC, but unfulfilled story hooks have no real bearing on the financial viability of any expansions. If EA don't think DLC will sell, BioWare isn't going to be making DLC. It won't. I was the one the biggest fanbois here, and even I will wait for other people to adopt DLC coming out of BioWare at this point. If it gets anything less than, "zOMG, you have to buy this thing now!" I ain't gonna be buying it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 18:37:00 GMT
Take everything this guys says with a grain of salt... This guy apparently doesn't even try to know what he is talking about given we know for a fact that VAs have been in the studio. BW would not pay for that if there was no DLC. Exactly. This guy is, and always has been, a clickbait hack.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,516 Likes: 2,607
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jun 7, 2017 18:38:18 GMT
However, no one writes stories like BioWare. No one. That's a very bold statement, since storywise I consider Obsidian to be the best in that department. Where Bioware usually shines as opposed to other companies is the creation of memorable companions. Usually, since I feel as if they lost that skillset with Andromeda. While not outright bad, the companions in this game don't rise up to usual Bioware quality. Obsidian is no doubt a great storytelling studio, but BioWare is the best. They USED to be alone on the pedestal. Andromeda clearly showed what lack of leadership, direction and polishing will do to a final product. The writing wasn't bad at all in Andromeda. Anyone who says it was bad didn't play the game past the original 10 hours. Did it have cringey moments? Hell yes, but as a veteran of the original trilogy, I can safely say there were just as many moments scattered throughout the trilogy. It's just that BioWare and EA have sewn so much bad karma that anything that's wrong or subpar is going to be bashed because there is a financial incentive to do that. I don't know s**t about marketing, but I will point the finger at BioWare and EA and say that's not how you do it. If EA hasn't figured it out yet, they've got a big bullseye and it's not just competition. Just look at YouTube. (Sigh) Also, IF... Dylan is going to be a full-priced game like GTA and milk you through microtransactions, then I'm not hopeful. F*** EA, Enthusiasm Annihilated.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 7, 2017 18:43:22 GMT
Well, that article sounds very plausible. Everything that's in there fits with what we've heard from the devs over the years and also with what the final product looks like. I have no trouble believing all of it.
It's sad to see how bad leadership can screw up a project like this. Frankly, I have to say it was a bit delusional to think you can combine procedural planets ala No Man's Sky with classic BioWare design. Maybe if they had realized this very early on and cut their hundreds of planets down to thirty and switched to a hybrid approach of procedural and hand crafted right away, as well as loosing the space flight stuff, they might have gotten a much better result. I do not understand how they didn't see those problems coming. If ME3 with its story focus already took up the dev budget, how did they imagine to do the same in terms of story and cinematics, add a whole bunch of completely new features and do the whole thing in a new engine without a major increase in funds? I am by no means an expert in business strategy, project management or production but but it seems to me that common sense was ignored on every level by the leads of this project's early phase.
If it's true that most of the game's content has been crunched out in 18 months, I actually have to say, the quality of what we got is pretty good in that context. So kudos to the low level devs and artists who crunched through this and managed to get something done.
Also, I have to wonder which mock reviewers they sent this to at the end of last year to get such bad feedback. People were worried all over even just from the gameplay trailers they published around N7 day. You'd think for these testing reviews, they choose extra critical people to avoid overestimating their product.
And finally, this article - if true, and again, I believe it is - reveals that the statement we saw late 2016 "We plan to release in March but if we see that the game needs more time we'll give it." was a blatant lie. They knew the game was in trouble and not where they wanted it to be and they decided to release it anyway and hope that it muddles through somehow and gets a good enough score to then make a sequel where they were hoping to get it right. Bah! That's just sad to hear.
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Post by goishen on Jun 7, 2017 18:49:12 GMT
Nothing say romantic like wearing a wife beater and headphones And the only thing left to the imagination is the smell of old sweat and musk. I think you're forgetting about the mustard stains and the beer bottle. Oh, and that's masturbation you smell, not musk.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,516 Likes: 2,607
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jun 7, 2017 18:51:07 GMT
Well, that article sounds very plausible. Everything that's in there fits with what we've heard from the devs over the years and also with what the final product looks like. I have no trouble believing all of it. I's sad to see how bad leadership can screw up a project like this. Frankly, I have to say it was a bit delusional to think you can combine procedural planets ala No Man's Sky with classic BioWare design. Maybe if they had realized this very early on and cut their hundreds of planets down to thirty and switched to a hybrid approach of procedural and hand crafted right away, as well as loosing the space flight stuff, they might have gotten a much better result. I do not understand how they didn't see those problems coming. If ME3 with its story focus already took up the dev budget, how did they imagine to do the same in terms of story and cinematics, add a whole bunch of completely new features and do the whole thing in a new engine without a major increase in funds? I am by no means an expert in business strategy, project management or production but but it seems to me that common sense was ignored on every level by the leads of this project's early phase. If it's true that most of the game's content has been crunched out in 18 months, I actually have to say, the quality of what we got is pretty good in that context. So kudos to the low level devs and artists who crunched through this managed to get something done.Also, I have to wonder which mock reviewers they sent this to at the end of last year to get such bad feedback. People were worried all over even just from the gameplay trailers they published around N7 day. You'd think for these testing reviews, they choose extra critical people to avoid overestimating their product. And finally, this article - if true, and again, I believe it is - reveals that the statement we late 2016 "We plan to release in March but if we see that the game needs more time we'll give it." was a blatant lie. They knew the game was in trouble and not where they wanted it to be and they decided to release it anyway and hope that it muddles through somehow and gets a good enough score to then make a sequel where they were hoping to get it right. Bah! That's just sad to hear. Exactly. Those guys don't deserve all the harsh criticism that was leveled at them. They can only do what is expected of them and considering their abysmal leadership, they did an OUTSTANDING job to get it done. Unfortunately, the higher-ups will point to all the criticisms and blame the core workers instead of just cleaning out their offices.
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Post by voltangclan on Jun 7, 2017 18:53:18 GMT
And the only thing left to the imagination is the smell of old sweat and musk. I think you're forgetting about the mustard stains and the beer bottle. Oh, and that's masturbation you smell, not musk. You only smell it if you let the kleenex pile up in the dustbin like a filthy savage.
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jamiecotc
N2
Abby... Normal.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Origin: JamieCOTC
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Post by jamiecotc on Jun 7, 2017 19:19:24 GMT
Since the game shipped unfinished, (Did they really think the eyes looked good?), I'd say something went wrong. Just about anything filtered through a game journalism site has to be taken with a grain of salt, but this would explain much.
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Post by abaris on Jun 7, 2017 19:33:24 GMT
Also, I have to wonder which mock reviewers they sent this to at the end of last year to get such bad feedback. People were worried all over even just from the gameplay trailers they published around N7 day. You'd think for these testing reviews, they choose extra critical people to avoid overestimating their product. I'm not familar with how that usual works, but I assume they have a select few trusted peeople they send it to. If it's anything like the magazines, there may be some hesitation of judging it too harshly being involved. Out of fear not to be invited for the next early access. That's, as opposed to the general opinion of ad money playing the major role, is also the reason why magazines hesitate of handing out bad ratings. Because of not being invited to events or early access while their competitors get the story.
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kino
N4
The path up and down are one and the same.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: kinom001
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Post by kino on Jun 7, 2017 19:36:16 GMT
Interesting article, particularly about the software used, but too much of it feels like conjecture to be considered a serious article. Like someone taking various talking points they've heard and building a predetermined narrative from it.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 7, 2017 19:49:07 GMT
Also, I have to wonder which mock reviewers they sent this to at the end of last year to get such bad feedback. People were worried all over even just from the gameplay trailers they published around N7 day. You'd think for these testing reviews, they choose extra critical people to avoid overestimating their product. I'm not familar with how that usual works, but I assume they have a select few trusted peeople they send it to. If it's anything like the magazines, there may be some hesitation of judging it too harshly being involved. Out of fear not to be invited for the next early access. That's, as opposed to the general opinion of ad money playing the major role, is also the reason why magazines hesitate of handing out bad ratings. Because of not being invited to events or early access while their competitors get the story. Well, that would invalidate the entire process though, right? I mean, why do this at all, if you hand it to people who depend on your stuff and therefore make you feel good about yourself. They might as well not do it at all.
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Post by abaris on Jun 7, 2017 19:53:42 GMT
Well, that would invalidate the entire process though, right? I mean, why do this at all, if you hand it to people who depend on your stuff and therefore make you feel good about yourself. They might as well not do it at all. I can't imagine them using a different system. Sending it to random people would end with the game being freely available on the internet. Not after release, but months before that date. There has to be trust involved. And trust doesn't grow overnight. I also imagine that these people aim to please in order to stay on that list.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,516 Likes: 2,607
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jun 7, 2017 19:55:19 GMT
Interesting article, particularly about the software used, but too much of it feels like conjecture to be considered a serious article. Like someone taking various talking points they've heard and building a predetermined narrative from it. That's pretty much Kotaku. They don't investigate. They speculate using bits and pieces. Still... even if 1/4 of the story is right, then damn... I hope BioWare learns from this and that every employee that isn't some "bro-culture" clique is polishing their resumes. Kotaku basically wrote an article on all the speculation and criticisms I had about BioWare since I joined the unofficial forums. Look back at my posts. I don't even work in the AAA industry or work for a company that is dependent on the AAA industry. However, when you piece together by actually looking at sites like Glassdoor and other employer resources you get a hazy picture of something not working. It showed on Andromeda. It showed on Inquisition. It showed on Mass Effect 3's ending (and by the way, there is some truth to the fact that EA was going to sell a complete ending as DLC. The media s***storm ended that.) EA are a bunch of clowns in suits that would be selling snake oil at carnivals if they didn't have a job at EA. BioWare needs to stop proving YouTubers like Gaming Wildlife, the Rageaholic and AngryJoe they're right. You can say f*** YouTube, but the influence is there. I saw it firsthand at PAX South. BioWare, stop with inclusion angst and get serious about producing art. Let your art do the talking, not your pathetic marketing, HR and PR dummies.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 7, 2017 20:08:09 GMT
Well, that would invalidate the entire process though, right? I mean, why do this at all, if you hand it to people who depend on your stuff and therefore make you feel good about yourself. They might as well not do it at all. I can't imagine them using a different system. Sending it to random people would end with the game being freely available on the internet. Not after release, but months before that date. There has to be trust involved. And trust doesn't grow overnight. I also imagine that these people aim to please in order to stay on that list. Maybe. Ironically, I doubt these guys will stay on the list. At least if I were a project manager at BW I wouldn't use them again after that screw-up.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,516 Likes: 2,607
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Dang it.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jun 7, 2017 20:17:48 GMT
I can't imagine them using a different system. Sending it to random people would end with the game being freely available on the internet. Not after release, but months before that date. There has to be trust involved. And trust doesn't grow overnight. I also imagine that these people aim to please in order to stay on that list. Maybe. Ironically, I doubt these guys will stay on the list. At least if I were a project manager at BW I wouldn't use them again after that screw-up.
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https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
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Post by Sartoz on Jun 7, 2017 20:26:13 GMT
-(_MEA_)-
Hmpf !
This article explains a lot. I said before that Frostbite had limitations and the article confirms my suspicions. That Bio MTL would go to such lengths to develop a grandiose game plan, knowing the engine's limitations, lack of tools and being understaffed, was just plain foolish. A price was paid and we all suffer for it.
ME:A, however, is worth the $39.00 I spent on it.
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Post by hydroflame20 on Jun 7, 2017 20:36:11 GMT
Kataku is Trash but once in a while you can find some bills or loose change around so I think the article is truthful and sounds just about right.
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ApocAlypsE
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Jun 7, 2017 20:44:51 GMT
I don't trust anything that is written in Kotaku, clickbait fest that only wants to gather publicity and nothing else, even at the cost of telling outright lies. That said, what we saw from the outside during development hinted very much of troubled development. Few points stood out for me:
1. Even according to Bioware, the franchise should have ended in ME3. Bioware just didn't know what to do with the game and they just flailed their arms around for 2 years at least.
2. Frostbite 3 is a liquid shit engine. This is an engine that is extremely not flexible and very hard to work with, evident by the gameplay flaws of Inquisition (tactical cam? LOL), this is 100% on EA. The game should have been developed in UE4, I guess it would be far easier to transfer assets from the OT.
3. Management problems: I don't know the source of it, but such frequent replacement of staff during the development is bound to kill a game, Edmonton and Montreal actually weren't cooperating, clearly evident in the state of the character creator. As a side note the article makes Mac Walters as the hero while most fans make him as the villain... If various parts of the studio don't talk to each other, that isn't something that can be fixed that easily, and I worry for Dylan as well as the future of Bioware. If Dylan doesn't score in the 90s I won't touch it. It would be a first for me with a Bioware game since Dragon Age Origins.
That guy also says that he doesn't think any story DLC is on the way BTW.
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pianishimo
N2
"We are poised to rediscover what truly means to be human"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: pianishimo
Posts: 145 Likes: 431
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Post by pianishimo on Jun 7, 2017 20:47:06 GMT
I also believe this article is true. No matter how much you loved this game, ME:A has a lot of visible flaws. I liked the game and that's all. It's a good game and that's all. But it's not a good game for 5 years of development. And I think we should be thankfull for this article because it justifies everything I think it's wrong with the game. And unlike I previously said in another thread, feeling that the problems with some plotpoints in ME:A's story were created by the laziness of the writing team, now I can see that it wasn't their fault at all. I can surely assume that's impossible to write something that big in one and a half year. It. Is. Impossible. Stop and think: five years ago they sit and start planning the game. Then after a long time someone has the "terrific" idea of making the game a new No Man's Sky. So they have to change the script, of course. And then they change again. And then the staff began to leave. And then they change the game proposal again. And then the two studios began to fight (WTF was that?) against each other. And then more people leave. And then they have 1,5 year to proper develop something that could work. That's crazy! It was a completely mess. An AAA game with such disorganization couldn't be a succcess. And it's not the devs fault. Or the writing team. Or the animation team. This last one was having a bad time with Frostbite, wich simply couldn't work properly but they were forced to keep trying even if they weren't so familiar with it. Now I can understand - if this article is true - why ME:A has some great plotpoints but it doesn't focus on any of them. Or why most part of your crew doesn't really change throughout the game. Or why the dialogues sometimes were so boring. There was no time to proper develop everything in the end. AnDromedary I think exactly the same. Although they went through this craziness, they really fought and did a good job. Whoever the f*ck we have to blame about this game flaws certainly it isn't the devs teams. This is sad and also a big shame. Mass Effect Andromeda has a strong base in its story and I really hope they can make it through this mess, bringing us back a new and an awesome sequel. [everything here is IMO after finishing the game ~~]
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,292 Likes: 50,652
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Post by Iakus on Jun 7, 2017 20:59:43 GMT
Sounds like what Paradox is up to lately. I had to look up Paradox and there is nothing in their old library that would get me to spend money, but... Battletech. I spent a lot of time on the pen-and-paper/tabletop version when I was in the service and holy cow... that's a lot of fun. Thank you for the heads up. However, no one writes stories like BioWare. No one. Maybe CDPR is going to blow people away again (but honestly, I own the Witcher 3 GOTY and I can't get into being Geralt. Just not a connection there.) with Cyberpunk 2077, but I'm not holding my breath. Anyway, I'm done with trusting BioWare to get it right at launch. Inquisition was unplayable on the PC for a good three months on this rig. Andromeda was broken on the PS4 until patch 1.05. Broken. And their response: #soon. Not funny. Not right. Not good. Battletech is being developed by Harebrained Schemes, the same people who made the Shadowrun Returns games. So I have faith that it'll be decent to possibly quite good. Bioware used to write great stories. But something has happened. Maybe they sold out to EA. Maybe They've replaced lost talent with lesser writers. Maybe they shifted too much focus on being "accessible" and 'streamlined" focusing too much on action and not enough on story. Whatever it is, they are not the Bioware they once were. Their priorities have shifted, and not for the better.
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Post by Zemgus on Jun 7, 2017 21:14:53 GMT
Like the issues with animations were Andromeda's biggest problem. That was NOT the reason why the game was hated by critics and fans. If the story, dialogue, characters, CC, player character, RPG elements - all the things that made the previous games as great as they were, had not been as bad as they were then all those little bugs and other things could have been easy to forgive. Or at least easier. Things like all asari being clones of each other, weird blue/yellow/whatever krogans/salarians, each planet having the same beasts with only different names and color scheme, etc, is truly bizarre and not something you expect to see in a game like this.
That could have been awesome. Maybe someday they will make that game? I would certainly be interested in it (more so than in a MEA sequel which I currently have little to no interest in to be honest).
Dragon Age 2 had much less time than that, as I understand it, and yet that game and it's writing is miles better (and that's saying something as it's regarded as the weakest of the three DA games, but compared to MEA it's not at all bad) even if it had it's own problems for sure. To me this seems like an excuse. Sorry if that's harsh but the dialogue options, etc, were so truly lacking and the overall main plot with so many recycled parts from previous BW games, the Ryder family mystery, the sibling, etc, it was all such a disappointment - even in 2 years the result could have surely been better than that?
It's disappointing to read this. I remember all the rumors and speculation here in forums, but I didn't really think too much about it then... All of this does make it seem like MEA should never have been shipped - or at the very least it should've been delayed. Releasing a game at this state seems disrespectful towards Bioware's loyal fans and others who paid full price for the game. Just like it was disrespectful to close the Bioware Forums.
From a fan perspective it feels little bit like a betrayal, even though in reality MEA is probably just simply epic failure.
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Post by SofNascimento on Jun 7, 2017 21:28:55 GMT
I was just remembering how many people said MEA's marketing wasn't a clear evidence of a troubled development, but a change in strategy by Bioware's part.
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The truth is that ever since E3 we coudl tell something was very wrong. Although I honestly didn't suspect it was so wrong. I never expected Andromeda to be such a disappointment.
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Post by aglomeracja on Jun 7, 2017 21:57:54 GMT
Great article. Honestly, if in month after release someone from Bioware would come out and spoke honestly about issues they had, I would have been way more understanding.
They lacked leadership, really badly. Funny how Mac Walters seems to be the savior now since he often was perceived as a tormentor.
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Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jun 7, 2017 22:04:12 GMT
Great article. Honestly, if in month after release someone from Bioware would come out and spoke honestly about issues they had, I would have been way more understanding. They lacked leadership, really badly. Funny how Mac Walters seems to be the savior now since he often was perceived as a tormentor. Ol' Mac didn't do enough. I would hold him responsible along with his bosses. They blew it. It's not a bad game but no where was it ready for release. Whoever said it was a "go" is not a developer, a writer, a VA, or support person. It was a clown in a suit that convinced Flynn it's all good.
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