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Post by straykat on Sept 19, 2016 4:41:09 GMT
^I should add that I played the game a few months after release. So I dl'ed the EC by default. But when I resorted back, I wondered what the big deal was.
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Garo
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Garo on Sept 19, 2016 16:13:35 GMT
To be honest, this anonymous pilot from Cerberus in ME2 was way better .
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roselavellan
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Post by roselavellan on Sept 19, 2016 17:14:58 GMT
^I should add that I played the game a few months after release. So I dl'ed the EC by default. But when I resorted back, I wondered what the big deal was. I wonder if how one feels about it is partially due to one's expectations. I had the EC installed from the beginning, and though I knew about the ending controversy, I had somehow expected Bioware to have "fixed" it and I had therefore expected a satisfying conclusion. I was massively disappointed. Perhaps also, unlike you, I did want a longer, more involved ending, wrapping up satisfactorily the story of my hero whom I had grown so attached to over the course of 3 games. I expected long cutscenes, emotional interactions with our companions, the works. And I was massively disappointed that we got what I consider to be a cursory ending, consisting of a brief conversation (one which ignored practically everything Shepard believed in and had worked so hard for), a few static slides and no companion interaction whatsoever. By contrast, I expected nothing from DA2, since I believed all the bad press about it. And I was happy to see that my experience of DA2 was nothing like what I had expected.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2016 19:53:27 GMT
- Politics in Mass effect are handled in a childish way.
- I really liked the Batarians, as a race. Not good or bad, with their culture and their particularities, very well written with the concept and totally believable. My character loved to hate them. Disappointed with what Bioware did with them in M3.
- Ashley Williams was better in M1. They wasted her potential in M3, neglected. Better writting, better appearance too, that fits better a serious soldier. I also disliked the fact that she became Spectre, especially because of political bullshit. I'm not really a fan of the rule of cool. I can like it, to a point, as long as it doesn't detract too much from the relevance of the story and the quality of the writting. Realism was better to follow in my opinion. With a better grade for her, yes, but no need to become a spectre like Kaidan. It didn't fit her.
- Disliked the peace option between the Geth and the Quarian. It lost any interest to choose between the two if we could get both of them, for more power and points against the reapers. A bad design decision from the Devs in my opinion. I was glad to see Gaider agreeing with me.
- It is totally justified to to kill the Rachni Queen and I fail to understand the babycries about Genocide and being called a monster without sensitivity. I think that kind of thought over-emotional is way too video gamey for my taste and a bit irrational too actually. The Rachni were known as a devastating race, it could be potentially dangerous for the universe to release the Queen in a matter of weeks, and could become absolutely deadly for all the species in less than a year with all the children born from eggs if hostile if you are wrong about trusting her. Your decision lied on trust and it is your responsability. Neither decision is the good one. Bioware decided what would be the outcome in their own story, but that doesn't change the relevance of not trusting the Rachni Queen. Good and bad. Life is more complicated than that. It could have been something else, another situation. In real life, you'd fall on the same situation, you'd think twice before deciding to release such thing being easily able to erase your race or half of it.
- Miranda Lawson was a very well written character, despite the camera angles around her butt. I can go beyond that. She should have been on the normandy after her mission with her sister in M3.
- Unlike almost everyone, I very disliked the last DLC IN M3. It was lame, and incoherent with the mood of M3, which was all glood and doom. It's like everything happened in a bubble, almost unreal. Only liked the romance content. But then , I bet that everyone liked the DLC because of that. You just have to put some romance content in a DLC, and it seems it's enough for everyone to be happy no matter how lame a DLC can be with its story hardly serious.
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Post by HYR on Sept 19, 2016 19:59:30 GMT
Here's another...
I think "There's no Shepard without Vakarian" is, for its face-value meaning (thus setting romances aside), a really dumb/trite quote.
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Post by Darth Dennis on Sept 19, 2016 21:43:59 GMT
- Miranda Lawson was a very well written character, despite the camera angles around her butt. I can go beyond that. She should have been on the normandy after her mission with her sister in M3. I think that's actually quite a popular view. Lots of people actually really liked her character. However, I really didn't like her whole character arc. It basically was: "I'm perfect. Cerberus are great." Then,"I'm perfect. Cerberus are great." Then, "You're so awesome, Commander! I realise now that I'm not so perfect. By the way, Cerberus are still great." Then, "I hate that human Guinea Pig with them tatoos! She thinks Cerberus is evil. It wasn't Cerberus' fault that Cerberus experimented on and tortured her, thereby turning her into a deranged and psychopathic mass murderer. Because Cerberus rules! How dare you not side with me, the person trying to justify literally the worst things any person can do to another." And finally, all of a sudden, "I hate Cerberus. They were so evil. Trying to use a base that could literally be our only hope against the Reapers. I quit. Take that, Illusive Man!" (I decided to skip out the Oriana part, because that's basically part of the transition of parts 1 and 2, and I was too busy shooting dudes from behind cover to care at that point.)
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dmc1001
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Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 19, 2016 21:57:40 GMT
- Ashley Williams was better in M1. They wasted her potential in M3, neglected. Better writting, better appearance too, that fits better a serious soldier. I also disliked the fact that she became Spectre, especially because of political bullshit. I'm not really a fan of the rule of cool. I can like it, to a point, as long as it doesn't detract too much from the relevance of the story and the quality of the writting. Realism was better to follow in my opinion. With a better grade for her, yes, but no need to become a spectre like Kaidan. It didn't fit her. - Miranda Lawson was a very well written character, despite the camera angles around her butt. I can go beyond that. She should have been on the normandy after her mission with her sister in M3. - Unlike almost everyone, I very disliked the last DLC IN M3. It was lame, and incoherent with the mood of M3, which was all glood and doom. It's like everything happened in a bubble, almost unreal. Only liked the romance content. But then , I bet that everyone liked the DLC because of that. You just have to put some romance content in a DLC, and it seems it's enough for everyone to be happy no matter how lame a DLC can be with its story hardly serious. I kind of agree regarding Ashley. Nothing wrong with her but I can't figure out how she made Spectre. Shepard did phenomenal things to earn his place. It was slightly better with Kaidan but even there politics was the main reason - Udina obviously intended to pit the VS against Shepard. I agree on Miranda except that she wouldn't be available until the end. Almost pointless to have her on board. But it made no sense for any of his former squadmates not to come on board. I mean, the galaxy is going under and people are quibbling about wanting it THEIR way. Citadel DLC doesn't make much sense. Would have worked better had we seen the Normandy sustain some type of damage that required a few days grounded. I kind of liked the clone Shepard. Wish he could be saved (as mostly or all paragon) but then last time given the option I stepped on his fingers to make him plummet to his death. The better twist would have been in the main character was the clone but ended up being more heroic than the "real" Shepard. Or at least it could have been left ambiguous about who was the real deal - if either. But, yeah, romance stuff helps.
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Dabrikishaw
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire
Posts: 182 Likes: 204
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Post by Dabrikishaw on Sept 19, 2016 23:36:09 GMT
The Illusive Man should have been a boos fight in Mass effect 3
Garrus is likable, but a thinly-veiled "best frined" character. I don't find him to be as great as others here do.
I've never cared about Tali. Merrill from Dragon Age ][ was everything Tali tried to be done better.
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Post by straykat on Sept 19, 2016 23:36:51 GMT
- Miranda Lawson was a very well written character, despite the camera angles around her butt. I can go beyond that. She should have been on the normandy after her mission with her sister in M3. I think that's actually quite a popular view. Lots of people actually really liked her character. However, I really didn't like her whole character arc. It basically was: "I'm perfect. Cerberus are great." Then,"I'm perfect. Cerberus are great." Then, "You're so awesome, Commander! I realise now that I'm not so perfect. By the way, Cerberus are still great." Then, "I hate that human Guinea Pig with them tatoos! She thinks Cerberus is evil. It wasn't Cerberus' fault that Cerberus experimented on and tortured her, thereby turning her into a deranged and psychopathic mass murderer. Because Cerberus rules! How dare you not side with me, the person trying to justify literally the worst things any person can do to another." And finally, all of a sudden, "I hate Cerberus. They were so evil. Trying to use a base that could literally be our only hope against the Reapers. I quit. Take that, Illusive Man!" (I decided to skip out the Oriana part, because that's basically part of the transition of parts 1 and 2, and I was too busy shooting dudes from behind cover to care at that point.) Even so, she should've been an option on that Cerberus mission. I'm a big Jack fan and I should apparently hate Miranda, but that was bollocks. I'm not even British either, but that's what it is: Bollocks. It is funny though that the only way you can get Jack or Miranda in that Cerberus mission is when they're dead or tortured (in Miranda's case, when he mentions her when he kills Kai Leng). Why the hell have the negative version, but not the "positive" alternative?
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aoibhealfae
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The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 811 Likes: 1,190
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The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
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Post by aoibhealfae on Sept 20, 2016 4:45:38 GMT
Starting to see a pattern in some of my reddit replies these days..... I always like the Krogan but in particular I always defended their right to live, and somehow this translate as me being offensive and racist to Asari and Salarian because I seem to value the Krogan lives over them. ...eh.... that means I'm not drunk enough to worship any fictional superior races as my overlords and I don't tolerate their BS. That's anti-imperialist, not racism. They use biological weapon to slowly kill off an entire species capacity to breed for over a thousand years to control that species as weapons of war, why should I endorse that because the one doing it is "superior species"?
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Post by straykat on Sept 20, 2016 5:01:45 GMT
Starting to see a pattern in some of my reddit replies these days..... I always like the Krogan but in particular I always defended their right to live, and somehow this translate as me being offensive and racist to Asari and Salarian because I seem to value the Krogan lives over them. ...eh.... that means I'm not drunk enough to worship any fictional superior races as my overlords and I don't tolerate their BS. That's anti-imperialist, not racism. They use biological weapon to slowly kill off an entire species capacity to breed for over a thousand years to control that species as weapons of war, why should I endorse that because the one doing it is "superior species"? I understand that point of view, personally. I just limit it to Elcor and Volus and whatnot. To me, the Krogan are a mistake....by those very Salarians and Asari. Even if I do feel like curing the Genophage at times, I'm still resentful that it's in my hands. I'm resentful of a lot of big choices, for that matter. Like helping the Quarians and getting Tali's adoration. I wish they fixed their own shit sometimes.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 20, 2016 10:54:20 GMT
Shepard should've had the option to throw Jack, Tali and Liara off the Normandy for instigating an argument with another squadmate
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Post by Darth Dennis on Sept 20, 2016 11:23:01 GMT
Shepard should've had the option to throw Jack, Tali and Liara off the Normandy for instigating an argument with another squadmate What would you do with the toaster?
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Post by themikefest on Sept 20, 2016 11:34:31 GMT
Shepard should've had the option to throw Jack, Tali and Liara off the Normandy for instigating an argument with another squadmate What would you do with the toaster? It remains on the ship. Most of my playthroughs I send the thing to Cerberus. The couple of times I encountered it and Tali, I wanted to throw her off the Normandy
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aoibhealfae
N3
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 811 Likes: 1,190
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aoibhealfae
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
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Post by aoibhealfae on Sept 21, 2016 6:55:50 GMT
I understand that point of view, personally. I just limit it to Elcor and Volus and whatnot. To me, the Krogan are a mistake....by those very Salarians and Asari. Even if I do feel like curing the Genophage at times, I'm still resentful that it's in my hands. I'm resentful of a lot of big choices, for that matter. Like helping the Quarians and getting Tali's adoration. I wish they fixed their own shit sometimes. Personally, I don't really see Shepard actively 'curing the Krogan' as you're only mediating an alliance between the Primarch of Palaven and a Krogan Clan Leader and the only one doing the science was Mordin and Padok Wiks. I could be neutral about it, keep silent about the sabotage until last minute and let them resolve their genophage issues themselves. In fact, sabotaging the cure is an act of imposing your will into the situation with a personal interest (Salarian help with the Crucible) and I don't see even a Renegade Shepard being easily persuaded because some Dalatrass ask her nicely. Anyway, I don't really see any justification for any children to still be punished for their ancestor's mistakes a millennia ago... but somehow class privilege always get colored into all these.. and this is just fiction.
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Post by Ieldra on Sept 21, 2016 8:26:13 GMT
- Politics in Mass effect are handled in a childish way. LOL. You'll find that a rather common opinion. I'll top this: it was stupid and simplistic, most of the time, and informed by Mac Walters dislike of his strawman "politics". Gaider said the option shouldn't be there because it thematically invalidates the Catalyst's assertion of an inevitable conflict between organics and synthetics. Were this a stand-along plot, there would be nothing wrong with the option to make peace. I always say that sentimentality is a bad advisor. I usually save the queen, but I'm aware of the fact that it's a calculated risk others may not find justified. She was reasonably well-written in ME2, but that her story focused on her sister again in ME3 rather than on more important aspects damages her as a character, and that we couldn't take her to Cronos Station severely damages her story. I didn't like Citadel much either, for the same reasons. I think it was meant to exist on a sort of meta-level, with a large dose of breaking the fourth wall, a light-hearted goodbye to the characters rather than a real part of the story. Nothing wrong with that, but it felt out of place in a normal playthrough of ME3.
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Post by Ieldra on Sept 21, 2016 8:32:14 GMT
I understand that point of view, personally. I just limit it to Elcor and Volus and whatnot. To me, the Krogan are a mistake....by those very Salarians and Asari. Even if I do feel like curing the Genophage at times, I'm still resentful that it's in my hands. I'm resentful of a lot of big choices, for that matter. Like helping the Quarians and getting Tali's adoration. I wish they fixed their own shit sometimes. Personally, I don't really see Shepard actively 'curing the Krogan' as you're only mediating an alliance between the Primarch of Palaven and a Krogan Clan Leader and the only one doing the science was Mordin and Padok Wiks. I could be neutral about it, keep silent about the sabotage until last minute and let them resolve their genophage issues themselves. In fact, sabotaging the cure is an act of imposing your will into the situation with a personal interest (Salarian help with the Crucible) and I don't see even a Renegade Shepard being easily persuaded because some Dalatrass ask her nicely. Anyway, I don't really see any justification for any children to still be punished for their ancestor's mistakes a millennia ago... but somehow class privilege always get colored into all these.. and this is just fiction. My Shepard didn't need persuading. The krogan have a sustainable population *with* the genophage, if barely, and a Reaper invasion is exactly the wrong time to boost their population growth by a factor of 1000. In fact, there's not a right time to do this at all. Also, I resented it that my only options were "all or nothing" and I absolutely can't stand being blackmailed. With all those things pointing me in one direction, the decision was not hard. Also, no children are punished because they don't come into existence in the first place.
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Post by straykat on Sept 21, 2016 9:19:53 GMT
I understand that point of view, personally. I just limit it to Elcor and Volus and whatnot. To me, the Krogan are a mistake....by those very Salarians and Asari. Even if I do feel like curing the Genophage at times, I'm still resentful that it's in my hands. I'm resentful of a lot of big choices, for that matter. Like helping the Quarians and getting Tali's adoration. I wish they fixed their own shit sometimes. Personally, I don't really see Shepard actively 'curing the Krogan' as you're only mediating an alliance between the Primarch of Palaven and a Krogan Clan Leader and the only one doing the science was Mordin and Padok Wiks. I could be neutral about it, keep silent about the sabotage until last minute and let them resolve their genophage issues themselves. In fact, sabotaging the cure is an act of imposing your will into the situation with a personal interest (Salarian help with the Crucible) and I don't see even a Renegade Shepard being easily persuaded because some Dalatrass ask her nicely. Anyway, I don't really see any justification for any children to still be punished for their ancestor's mistakes a millennia ago... but somehow class privilege always get colored into all these.. and this is just fiction. I don't want to punish their ancestors for any particular thing. Their ancestors only did what came natural to them. I resent the Salarians for enabling them in the first place. I'm just the janitor who has to clean up the mess now -- but that isn't going to happen by making an even bigger mess. It doesn't help that the only viable way to cure it is to keep Maelon's data and use the products of torture (human torture at that). Even more deeply insulting is that this is the Paragon choice. It's one thing to put this in the game and simply be utilitarian, but another to present it as Heroic. I dare Patrick Weekes to go to a Holocaust museum and tell them that Mengele's research was a "heroic" thing. I'd pay to see that even.
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Post by Natashina on Sept 21, 2016 10:10:37 GMT
I don't know how unpopular it is, but this is my favorite picture of TIM: Now that looks like a proper final boss. The Catalyst made sense. It was extremely simplistic and beyond cold, but his logic made sense. I enjoyed the Reaper-Larva. I liked it's look, and I even liked the second phase of the boss fight. Harbinger being rendered mute was a real disappointment for me. Especially given how much He/They truly loathe Shepard. I think Anderson should have lived after being shot. Did Anderson forget to bring medi-gel to the Citadel? Shep at least has the excuse of having their armor blown off, but Anderson seems to be just fine until TIM forces Shep to shoot him. Why didn't he use medi-gel on himself and on Shep to get them patched up? ...That last question was rhetorical. I personally enjoyed the Shep/Anderson friendship, but I never enjoy watching scenes that are only there for drama and "da feels."
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aoibhealfae
N3
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 811 Likes: 1,190
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aoibhealfae
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
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Post by aoibhealfae on Sept 21, 2016 10:28:28 GMT
Also, no children are punished because they don't come into existence in the first place. Very well. How about Krogan females? The entire gender was enslaved by the genophage for a thousand years because some aliens decide their entire race couldn't be trusted to reproduce. They're already outnumbered by the males 1:1000 and only 1% of their female population could carry viable birth. Not every girls and women wanted to have a child and yet they're a dying species so that was never an option and the only way for them to know they're fertile or not was to see if they could carry birth full term. Imagine finding out from the moment you can menstruate and then everyone pressure you to get pregnant because your womb could save the entire race. So.. what is your stance on teenage pregnancy? Now, they're smart enough to develop a sterility plague and yet they didn't bother to fix the gender disparity? One female krogan could pacify an entire room of bloodthirsty males simply by yelling down at them. She could even rally an entire valley full of krogan clans to fight wars for the Turians and for humans to retake Earth. Where are the Salarian or the Asari in this? Dalatrass Linron herself said this; "We uplifted the krogan to do one thing; wage war. It's all they know because its all we wanted them to know." She's not interested in having the Krogan as people. She see the species as nothing more than barbaric violent animals she could use to win wars with. And like hell I would let Shepard get involved with that and Linron could send her own Spectres for that. Oh dang, another missed opportunity with Jondum Bau.
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Post by straykat on Sept 21, 2016 10:34:58 GMT
edit: lol screw it. I'll keep the genophage talk to that other thread. edit: Damnit.. I got a like for this post while ninja editing
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In lurking mode, playing the ME games.
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Post by Natashina on Sept 21, 2016 10:51:48 GMT
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aoibhealfae
N3
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 811 Likes: 1,190
inherit
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aoibhealfae
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
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Post by aoibhealfae on Sept 21, 2016 11:10:29 GMT
I don't want to punish their ancestors for any particular thing. Their ancestors only did what came natural to them. I resent the Salarians for enabling them in the first place. I'm just the janitor who has to clean up the mess now -- but that isn't going to happen by making an even bigger mess. It doesn't help that the only viable way to cure it is to keep Maelon's data and use the products of torture (human torture at that). Even more deeply insulting is that this is the Paragon choice. It's one thing to put this in the game and simply be utilitarian, but another to present it as Heroic. I dare Patrick Weekes to go to a Holocaust museum and tell them that Mengele's research was a "heroic" thing. I'd pay to see that even. If I were to construct a biological weapon against the krogan to stop the war, I wouldn't destroy the species procreation ability completely. The genophage itself is crude and ineffective in both short term and long term. Its like spraying an apartment complex with heavy dose of teratogen and pray the population to decrease in... fifty years? Ironically, the Cure itself have similar effect to control the population, even if they can still have babies again, you are essentially spreading AIDS around, making everyone sicker and die faster. Anyway, I could understand why everyone seemed to be against curing the krogan. Not many play the game with full import to give the desirable consequence but I could say the same with Quarian vs Geth.
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aoibhealfae
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The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by aoibhealfae on Sept 21, 2016 11:15:34 GMT
Sorry, wrote the post and then went out doing groceries and post it before I read that.
Now to make up; here's an unpopular opinion;
I hate military romanticism and yet I still play it. *facepalm*
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Post by Ieldra on Sept 22, 2016 9:48:27 GMT
Also, no children are punished because they don't come into existence in the first place. Very well. How about Krogan females? The entire gender was enslaved by the genophage for a thousand years because some aliens decide their entire race couldn't be trusted to reproduce. They're already outnumbered by the males 1:1000 and only 1% of their female population could carry viable birth. Not every girls and women wanted to have a child and yet they're a dying species so that was never an option and the only way for them to know they're fertile or not was to see if they could carry birth full term. Imagine finding out from the moment you can menstruate and then everyone pressure you to get pregnant because your womb could save the entire race. So.. what is your stance on teenage pregnancy? Any kind of forced pregnancy is evil. I'm not seeing a dying species, but I wouldn't be against mitigating the genophage to a point where the survival of the species does not depend on drastic measures. We didn't have that option though, and boosting krogan fertility by a factor of 1000 is insane. Again, the story did not give us any reasonable options in that. There are many measures I can imagine to improve the situation of the krogan, but the story only gave me an inacceptable one. So what should I do? Accepting the inacceptable one because of a wilful restriction of options based on the desire to fuel controversy? Nope. The dalatrass' motivations don't concern me. Why she wants the cure sabotaged is irrelevant to my decision. The story does not give me an option to walk away, so I must make a decision, and so I make one based on my own perception of the situation, not the dalatrass's.
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