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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by bshep on Jun 13, 2017 14:43:32 GMT
However, those attachments, and the anonymity of the internet, allowed them to go to far with things like death threats, hate mail, etc. Yeah, well that's what I'm trying to point out. The positive and negative fanboyism. Positive in a see no evil, hear no evil way. And negative in the way of resorting to death threats, which takes it to a level of dangerous nutjobbery. Both are completely alien sentiments to me. If I don't like a product, I attack the product not the ones working on it. It's scary to me that people can all get worked up over something like a game, music, sports, movies. There's always the last product these people obviously liked. And if the new one isn't to their liking, there's no obligation to buy it as there's no reason to go over the edge when something doesn't turn out quite right in their imaginations. Same goes for these hold the line people, only less dangerous than anyone actually issuing death threats to a person. I can feel disappointment too, you know. I feel a lot of it over how MEA turned out to be. But never, never would I attack any person who worked on the game. Only what I feel went wrong with the game. If only some other people in this forum followed your example.
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Post by Elfen Lied on Jun 13, 2017 14:47:20 GMT
Can you imagine what a relief it must be for the Bioware people working on Anthem to have it have such a great showing at E3? For it to be included in pretty much every "Best of E3" video I've seen, touted as one of the only really interesting new games to come out at this E3? It must feel amazing, after every Bioware product since (and including) ME2 has been met with vitriol and hate? "ME2 is too little of an RPG! ME3 Endings aaaaahhhhh! DAI is too empty! DA2 sucks! MEA is made by SJW's!! My face is tired!" Then they come out with Anthem and people are just saying "Wow! Looks pretty cool! Great visuals! Could be fun!" I know not everyone is saying that, because some people are rabid Bioware "fans" and complain because they made a game not catered to the community that has given them nothing but grief for the last decade. I think what they've done with Anthem is leave an abusive relationship. For all the vitriolic reactions that they got in the last decade there was also a fair number of people who bought, played and loved their game. And that still does. The one and only problem is that they are not probably enough or, to say better, that there is another market where they can pick up more players. They are not so sensitive. If ME:A sold 10 milion copies they wouldn't give a **** about complaints, criticism and bad press. They are just going where money is. And if you think that it is only EAware, well, don't worry: I want to see people's reaction when CDPR will confirm that Cyberpunk 2077 is going to have MP.
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Post by Estaq99 on Jun 13, 2017 15:13:59 GMT
So people are feeling abandoned by BioWare after acting like spoiled brats after Mass Effect 3 and how the forums at BioWare were overrun by a childish segment calling for firings, the company to be dissolved, people to be blacklisted, and other wishes to harm their careers. Now that team releases a new game is announced which gave them free reign to create a new IP and they feel abandoned. In some ways BioWare is just treating the "Mass Effect true fans" the same way they were treated. If you don't like it, don't buy their games and move on and support a developer that makes the games you enjoy. BioWare is moving on and you should too. Are you a EA/Bioware employee?
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Post by brandoftime on Jun 13, 2017 15:14:34 GMT
This article at Forbes kind of gets to the center of what's wrong, other than the apparent bad PR. www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2017/06/11/anthem-is-eas-answer-to-destiny-and-that-doesnt-make-any-sense/It just seems weird and a waste of this kind/type of talent to have BW make this type of game when EA has other studios on hand Titanfall, etc. to do this job. We don't have a great many developers out there that put out high quality RPG's like BW, so it seems out of place to say the least. And having the recent mess with MEA only makes it stand out more.
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 13, 2017 15:21:29 GMT
So people are feeling abandoned by BioWare after acting like spoiled brats after Mass Effect 3 and how the forums at BioWare were overrun by a childish segment calling for firings, the company to be dissolved, people to be blacklisted, and other wishes to harm their careers. Now that team releases a new game is announced which gave them free reign to create a new IP and they feel abandoned. In some ways BioWare is just treating the "Mass Effect true fans" the same way they were treated. If you don't like it, don't buy their games and move on and support a developer that makes the games you enjoy. BioWare is moving on and you should too. Are you a EA/Bioware employee? You don't have to work for Bio to think that their fans are silly. Though I suppose it helps.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2017 15:23:50 GMT
All they need to add to Anthem that will make it just fine for me is gear good enough to do the story from just solo (I'll pay premium membership for it, no problems) and 2-4 BG1 style good looking cohorts with good sound sets and a short backstory. Honestly, that Paul guy, if he was an NPC with 40 or so lines of VA, that would be good enough. SWTOR was most like that after you did main story, and it was cool for a few months. Really, it's not that much to add, and fingers crossed they will. Obviously, won't satisfy peeps who need romances and in-depth development, but I just want AI companionship to relieve solitude and not have to group up with people.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 13, 2017 15:24:30 GMT
In a way I kind of do. It feels like bioware is chasing a different demographic with Anthem as I have no interest in cooperative multiplayer. On top of that they used their C team for what should be their flagship franchise and had the A team work on this new usurper franchise. As a Mass Effect fan I feel like I have been put out to pasture. As ME fans we need to speak up and let them know they need to treat this franchise better. Also DA fans need to speak up so the same thing doesn't happen to their favorite franchise. Bioware has been chasing a different demographic since ME2. Yup. I started feeling abandoned years ago. This is just the final "screw you" to the audience.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jun 13, 2017 15:28:55 GMT
I meant no disrespect towards anyone that doesn't like multiplayer. Just didn't expect so many to disregard the game because it's multiplayer. Bioware's long-standing fans who really like multiplayer, IMO, only exist because of the ME3 ending and the MP that was a pleasant surprise. I ranted long and hard about no MP in ME3, it was something that to me seemed an obvious division of effort, resources time, etc that could have been better spent making the SP game better. And.... I was right! I became a huge MP fan, love that game, and would gladly live in an alternate universe where ME3 was not rushed, was polished to blinding brilliance, and 3MP never existed. I am not the Arbiter of who is/is not a True Bioware Fan ™️, because the fanbase has shifted with the shifted focus of the games and their devs. People like games like Skyrim and DAI... I will never fucking understand them in a million years, but people can like whatever they want. I will say that Anthem is the final proof that Bioware is now a rEAperized husk, the assimilation complete. Their website used to say something something story-driven RPG something something. Now this, which is definitely not an RPG. The Bob Dylan of gaming.... Hubris off the charts.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2017 15:30:42 GMT
Sure, but those actual fans that enjoyed their games didn't stop all the baseless criticism that sent them to counseling. Sometimes you just have to look out for your own mental and emotional well-being. You are suggesting that they should have just stuck it out through death threats and angry tweets and online petitions that sent them to COUNSELING because of the people who enjoyed it rather than moving on to something else where they could be actually happy? That's pretty selfish. To me leaving a project when things get difficult is not only disrespectful to those that believed in that project but it's outright coward and selfish towards the people that bought and supported with their hard earned money your product. I don't want to jump the gun yet but if we don't get any additional content for MEA then it is quite clear that they really don't care about the franchise. I want to believe we will get more content but frankly if they don't not care about ME, it would be more honest to sell it to other studios that have the ideas and courage to deliver a better experience. We shall see. Is folding a bad hand in poker the cowardly thing to do?... or is it the prudent one?... allowing you to continue in the game with enough chips on the table to run with a better hand if you're dealt it.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jun 13, 2017 15:33:00 GMT
Are you a EA/Bioware employee? You don't have to work for Bio to think that their fans are silly. Though I suppose it helps.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 13, 2017 15:35:05 GMT
Sure, but those actual fans that enjoyed their games didn't stop all the baseless criticism stopped reading.
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Post by Ieldra on Jun 13, 2017 15:35:14 GMT
Abandoned? I haven't been a fan since ME3, even though I bought MEA, so no.
Now if they drop DA, then I'll feel abandoned.
All in all, I think the quality of Bioware's stories has being going downhill for years, for whatever reasons. Between that, MP pressure from EA and political self-censoring, I think they're past their zenith in terms of creativity, especially in making good SP rpgs with compelling stories. DA has been bracing itself against the trend to some degree, we'll see how long it can hold the line. Suffice it to say I'm not really optimistic. And if they continue along EA's primary path and make mostly MP-focused games, they'll have lost me for good. Maybe not from here for a while longer, but certainly from their games.
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Post by Kroitz on Jun 13, 2017 15:47:51 GMT
'hardcore' fan-base after gameplay reveal: 'hardcore' fan-base after romance-option reveal: Hail Anthem!
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Post by kleindropper on Jun 13, 2017 15:48:26 GMT
Micro-transactions are now king for EA. They will tailor every game so that people can buy that snazzy new armor color to do the same thing over and over in mindless battledome gameplay (ref MEA MP). Making a new armor color is alot easier than producing an entire DLC world and storyline for an immersive RPG.
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Post by warrior on Jun 13, 2017 16:04:00 GMT
I meant no disrespect towards anyone that doesn't like multiplayer. Just didn't expect so many to disregard the game because it's multiplayer. f Because we want to play independently and don't want to interact with real people -- this is non-negotiable for me -- I am not going to run around shooting strangers just for XP and more gear. And I don't have enough irl friends who both game and would play MP, so all my teams would be strangers. I want the game to have internal motivation beyond the accumulation of more virtual "currency." That's fundamental to my gaming experience. Otherwise I might as well do something more productive with my time. Some of us are just never going to like MP and simply want some SP games made well for us. We're wondering if the market will leave us completely behind, at least in the case of the SP RPG. I do judge people for following money only. That's how we get wasted talent and a nearly homogenous market. All so the higher-ups at corps like EA can feed their families someday buy the small islands they're saving up for.
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Post by rolenka on Jun 13, 2017 16:13:24 GMT
I feel abandoned because they abandoned the franchise. They were going to make this game anyway.
Though now that you mention it, if they weren't making this game, MEA would have been made by the A-team, bad press wouldn't have poisoned the future for the series, and it would be living on.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 13, 2017 16:17:44 GMT
I think this abandonment thing is premature. For all the issues surrounding this game, the mismanagement of time and resources and now the reveal of this alleged new hotness that might come out the same year Cyberpunk 2077 does (c. 2185), I don't think EA/BioWare are just going to can it just like that, whether that means trying to put more into continuing what they set up or sweeping and clearing, I think the franchise will continue in one form or another for a bit longer. Hey, maybe it'll be like Obi-Wan, and come back more powerful than we could ever imagine, or at least like Robert Downey Jr., who against all odds, did not OD in a hotel room in Vegas.
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Post by caios on Jun 13, 2017 16:20:51 GMT
It's clear BioWare is ignoring their old fan base who feel frustrated and abandoned and embracing a new fanbase of Destiny lovers. I say this watching things like the new Anthem subreddit, filled with mostly Destiny sub-redditors, already has had several BioWare posters over the 24 hours since the game's reveal. Compared to the total absence in the Mass Effect sub. BioWare devs are happily and eagerly chatting away with fanbois and Destiny players across twitter and facebook, but immediately blocking anyone that brings up concerns related to Mass Effect and its future. I'm not talking about rabid haters spewing insults here, I'm talking about people asking questions like those posted in the article above. Questions like "With the current focus on Anthem, does that mean there will be no ME DLC?" get people blocked.
This isn't conjecture, I'm literally witnessing this happening right now talking to several huge Mass Effect fans.
Shocking that so many feel abandoned.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jun 13, 2017 16:46:45 GMT
Sure, but those actual fans that enjoyed their games didn't stop all the baseless criticism stopped reading. That's ok. It was a long post! You can rest up a bit and then finish it later. I didn't want to take up your whole morning.
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Post by abaris on Jun 13, 2017 16:52:13 GMT
It's clear BioWare is ignoring their old fan base who feel frustrated and abandoned and embracing a new fanbase of Destiny lovers. They're not abandoning anything. They're moving to where market research says the money is. I can't understand people getting all emotional about a profit oriented company not fufilling their pet peeves. Yes, I'm disappointed how MEA turned out to be, but they owe us nothing beyond a playable game. Which they provided with the latest patches. If one doesn't like that game, that's a different issue and I have to deal with that mysself. But I'm a realist, not someone getting all romantic or emotional over it. It's just what it is. If they feel like releasing DLCs will net them a profit, they will do them. If not then not.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2017 16:54:59 GMT
It's clear BioWare is ignoring their old fan base who feel frustrated and abandoned and embracing a new fanbase of Destiny lovers. I say this watching things like the new Anthem subreddit, filled with mostly Destiny sub-redditors, already has had several BioWare posters over the 24 hours since the game's reveal. Compared to the total absence in the Mass Effect sub. BioWare devs are happily and eagerly chatting away with fanbois and Destiny players across twitter and facebook, but immediately blocking anyone that brings up concerns related to Mass Effect and its future. I'm not talking about rabid haters spewing insults here, I'm talking about people asking questions like those posted in the article above. Questions like "With the current focus on Anthem, does that mean there will be no ME DLC?" get people blocked. This isn't conjecture, I'm literally witnessing this happening right now talking to several huge Mass Effect fans. Shocking that so many feel abandoned. What exactly can the Bioware Edmonton devs working on Anthem answer about ME:A?
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Post by xMissWoox on Jun 13, 2017 17:11:52 GMT
Hmm, it does rather seem like Mass Effect was pushed to the backseat so Anthem could ride up front. Can't help but feel a little bitter about that.
That said, 1) I am biased as I don't generally play MP games and 2) I don't really know enough about Anthem or the future of Andromeda to make a proper judgement yet. I'll have to just wait and see.
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Post by cypherj on Jun 13, 2017 17:13:21 GMT
EA is reading the terrain, I can't really blame them. The old Bioware fans that loved Baulder's Gate, KOTOR, are getting older and probably shrinking. Their research may show a larger pool of potential gamers out there they're obviously trying to touch.
They started this move back with ME:2 & DA:2, trying to hit the more casual gamers. Maybe their numbers show that if they don't change what they're doing they'll eventually go the way of Blackberry and Polaroid, having waited too long to adjust to the market.
Persistent online games also bring in more revenue. Your revenue is done on a SP game after the initial purchase, whereas online games bring in recurring revenue afterwards.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2017 17:13:23 GMT
No I nailed the point in head. By focusing on Anthem and treating ME like a second rate game, they gave the middle finger to those fans (without "") that all in all actually enjoyed their previous experiences and tried to defend the good in them against the haters. Sure, but those actual fans that enjoyed their games didn't stop all the baseless criticism that sent them to counseling. Sometimes you just have to look out for your own mental and emotional well-being. You are suggesting that they should have just stuck it out through death threats and angry tweets and online petitions that sent them to COUNSELING because of the people who enjoyed it rather than moving on to something else where they could be actually happy? That's pretty selfish. To be fair, I'm not sure that those actual fans that enjoyed the game could have stopped all the criticism. Some tried and some people certainly were just not willing to listen to anyone who suggested that the company stepping away from the ME IP was a possibility if the level of hate didn't get dialed down even a little bit. It's been an impossible situation overall... so now the company is stepping away from the IP... not perhaps what some of the people complaining in hateful ways actually wanted... but what we're stuck with nonetheless. Badgering the company further is certainly not going to get them to reverse this decision and revive ME at this point in time. However, those actual fans who enjoyed the game do have a game they enjoy that now runs much better than it did at release. What's done is done.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2017 17:19:56 GMT
EA is reading the terrain, I can't really blame them. The old Bioware fans that loved Baulder's Gate, KOTOR, are getting older and probably shrinking. Their research may show a larger pool of potential gamers out there they're obviously trying to touch. They started this move back with ME:2 & DA:2, trying to hit the more casual gamers. Maybe their numbers show that if they don't change what they're doing they'll eventually go the way of Blackberry and Polaroid, having waited too long to adjust to the market. Persistent online games also bring in more revenue. Your revenue is done on a SP game after the initial purchase, whereas online games bring in recurring revenue afterwards. There was also a point made that many of the old guard that was responsible for those games are gone. Bioware is over 20 years old, of course it has changed a lot. People retired, left to work on passion projects, or for other triple A devs. This will be a reality with Bethesda one day, and CDRP, it is the way of life. Nothing will stay the same forever, and while that is sad it is just life.
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