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Post by sil on Jul 5, 2017 19:50:46 GMT
SAM wouldn't surprise me. Though I like to think of the benefactor being batarian.
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Post by Monica21 on Jul 5, 2017 21:23:27 GMT
But how do you get SAM on to the Nexus when the Hyperion was still 14 months out? Garson died relatively quickly after arriving in Andromeda.
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Post by Hrungr on Jul 5, 2017 23:27:08 GMT
But how do you get SAM on to the Nexus when the Hyperion was still 14 months out? Garson died relatively quickly after arriving in Andromeda. SAM wouldn't have actually been needed on the Nexus for this to work. Jian had expressed concerns about TB to Alec while they were still in the Milky Way. Which meant SAM knew she might be a problem. The tipping point (the final message to Alec about TB) was just as Jian was about to embark to Andromeda. SAM could have already had the plan in motion and the killer hired to take her out when they arrived. We know that SAM could get people onboard with false identities, so that wouldn't have been a problem. Nor would money or the proper motivation if necessary.
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Post by dazk on Jul 5, 2017 23:46:02 GMT
From an earlier thread on this - my theory is that SAM is The Benefactor. Notice that SAM was already partially complete by the time we hear from "The Benefactor". The fact that TB hides behind rotating set of different voices & faces is what first got me wondering. Being an AI, it could rapidly accumulate the wealth it needed (which we've seen an AI do already in ME). It would explain its interest in improving itself, and would understand the threat the Reapers posed. And as it was still early in its development, its "humanity" was still an evolving state. I think there was a hint there in the discussion you have with SAM about AIs committing crimes and how they should be judged. We've seen SAM disguise your voice to fool the Kett (remember TB's rotating set of voices and faces). I think SAM orchestrated Jian's death as she began to question TB, which in turn could jeopardize the entire Initiative project if the truth was learned. SAM could employ others to work on its behalf (and did so to murder Jian) and is the answer to the question why TB never revealed themselves after arriving in Andromeda. SAM being TB would be right in line with BioWare-style twists (on the level of Solas) and would lead into a some... interesting conversations. SAM could argue that that the survival of the MW species is more important than one person's life, and so on, and so forth... SAM is definitely in my opinion a main suspect in the whole mysterious benefactor debate but I think he worked with the Geth to get the money, technology etc to ensure the Andromeda Iniative took off. SAM needs the Initiative to succeed for self preservation reasons if nothing else. If he is allied with the Geth they would have already known about the Reapers (I am sure this has been discussed already) and they may have been motivated to go to Andromeda to escape the Reapers but they may have also wanted to preserve the other organic species. They didn't wipe the Quarian's out because they couldn't extrapolate the consequences of wiping out their creator race. Maybe they were acting altruistically or maybe they just couldn't figure out what the consequences for them would be if all organics at a similar intellectual level as them were wiped out. Maybe they saw it as an opportunity for a new start with organics where hopefully they could co-exist or maybe they were just curious to see how the organic/AI interface worked out. Anyway, so I think the Geth reached out to SAM as they would be interested in the development of any AI in the MW but also because they obviously had an interest in Andromeda having built the FTL Telescope to observe it. How did the initiative get access to the Telescope? SAM would have been able to facilitate that if he'd already been talking to the Geth or if they had already reached out to him. I also don't believe Alec Ryder could have fully developed an AI by himself. Some of SAM's mannerisms also really remind me of Legion and I think that the Geth may have also helped in SAM's "self" development. The Geth and SAM would both want to stay out of view and that would explain why The Benefactor hasn't shown themselves. Jien's murder is explainable as she was beginning to question who the benefactor was but I am not convinced SAM would do that but then again I am not convinced she is dead. Would Alec have accepted SAM being the benefactor? He says something like "something is off" meaning he is suspicious that they haven't made them selves known and hence what were their motivations in making the Initiative succeed. I think if SAM told Alec it was SAM he would accept it, if SAM told him the Geth were involved that may have been a problem for Alec given the mistrust of the Geth at the time. My guess is that the Quarian Ark will give us some answers. I suspect the Quarians arrive in Andromeda to find a fleet of Geth waiting for them and Ryder and SAM will have to convince the Quarians to not attack the Geth.
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Post by SwobyJ on Jul 6, 2017 17:49:12 GMT
I like this kind of thing.
Because it syncs well with the concepts of Geth seeding information (sure, false, but still info) and AI attempting to get rides out of where they are (Casino AI in ME1).
SAM can very well be all the AI issues of MET rolled into one and explained as a net benefit, even if (increasingly?) with more problematic elements that Ryder has to learn on their own, but negotiate with instead of (optionally or forced by plot to) shoot.
plz do Bioware
I still like the Volus mattering more though.
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Post by MegaIllusiveMan on Jul 7, 2017 4:52:09 GMT
I found something worth mentioning in the Codex about the Tempest Stealth Systems
"It's unknown how the Initiative acquired this system for its survey ships, as IES stealth technology is classified, despite valid security certificates, no record of negotiations exists in the Nexus legal archives"
Normandy SR-2 also had this, after the first one was destroyed, and it was Built by Cerberus
That may explain the SR-2 Model in Dad's Quarters and the Hologram on the Nexus.
Cerberus is involved in the Andromeda Initiative.
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Post by Monica21 on Jul 7, 2017 16:05:51 GMT
Cerberus is involved in the Andromeda Initiative. Shepard's convo with EDI post-block removal: Shepard: How did Cerberus replicate the most advanced warship in the Alliance Navy without anyone knowing?
EDI: Cerberus encouraged the Alliance to co-develop the original Normandy. This allowed humans to observe turian technologies and warship design practices. This ship was built using copies of the original technical schematics. Parts were purchased from thousands of suppliers over several years. A Cerberus cell assembled the ship at a remote location in the Voyager Cluster.
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Post by rolenka on Jul 8, 2017 2:22:52 GMT
The only one with that kind of money is Cerberus. Though TIM would mostly be interested in saving humans, the Initiative had already laid the groundwork by the time he learned of the Reaper threat. Funding it was the best way to preserve humanity.
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Post by turboj67 on Jul 22, 2017 22:56:45 GMT
Armistan Banes
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Post by Serza on Jul 22, 2017 23:14:41 GMT
The Benefactor knew of 'something'. Not exactly Reapers, but possibly enough of a clue of extinction. Could be lying as to how much it knew, of course. Is this what you're referring to? Whatever the "something" is that the Benefactor refers to, it's in 2179, well before the Prothean beacon was discovered. I checked the timeline in the Wikia and literally nothing happened that year. The Skyllian Blitz was 2176, Akuze was 2177, and Torfan was 2178. Nothing is mentioned again until 2182 when it says that Kahoku started investigating Cerberus. The first time husks are seen in-universe is when Jack Harper encounters Saren Arterius and his brother, Desolas. In 2179, the Benefactor merely mentions a storm that is coming, but Jack Harper first encounters Reaper tech in 2157. That's a twenty year window for him to start Cerberus, become The Illusive Man, and fund several projects, the Initiative among them. I thought about this long and hard, and there is no better fitting explanation.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jul 23, 2017 12:32:29 GMT
I found something worth mentioning in the Codex about the Tempest Stealth Systems "It's unknown how the Initiative acquired this system for its survey ships, as IES stealth technology is classified, despite valid security certificates, no record of negotiations exists in the Nexus legal archives" Normandy SR-2 also had this, after the first one was destroyed, and it was Built by Cerberus That may explain the SR-2 Model in Dad's Quarters and the Hologram on the Nexus. Cerberus is involved in the Andromeda Initiative. To what extent? He may have helped fund it, but he's such a human first a hole that I don't think he would support this at all unless it was only humans. He wouldn't send a 20,000 each council race on five arks. If TIM was The Benefactor he would mostly send 20,000 humans only or 100,000 humans. He wouldn't send melting pot of all the council races and non-council races. Plus, there is a datapad when you rescue Moshe Safae that suggests the Benefactor made it to Heleus and we know TIM obviously stayed behind. It said: We don't know if this is just another Kett title, but I don't think BioWare would use the same name twice. I know there is Cora Harper but there are multiple people who could have the same last name and not be related. I think the homeworld business part of it implies that this Benefactor is from Milky Way. If you were from Andromeda Galaxy I think that's a legitimate question ask if someone was from the Milly Way.
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Post by vonuber on Jul 23, 2017 19:59:34 GMT
SAM as the Benefactor. Huh. I like it.
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Post by apocalypticham on Jul 24, 2017 7:58:30 GMT
I'd almost reached the ending but the trial ended before I could. Still not sure if I want to buy the game even though it's 50% off here. Can anyone please tell me if there are any popular theories as to who or even what(AI??)the Benefactor is? I don't care about spoilers anymore so fire away lol thanks
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Post by dazk on Jul 24, 2017 8:43:27 GMT
I'd almost reached the ending but the trial ended before I could. Still not sure if I want to buy the game even though it's 50% off here. Can anyone please tell me if there are any popular theories as to who or even what(AI??)the Benefactor is? I don't care about spoilers anymore so fire away lol thanks Starting at the beginning of the thread will provide plenty of theories 😊 This is not meant to be sarcastic.
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Post by rma2110 on Jul 24, 2017 8:47:40 GMT
What about Miranda Lawson?! It would explain the Cerberus tech being used on the Tempest as well the Quantum Entanglement communicator used by SAM. Wasn't that Cerberus Tech as well? She was even mentioned in the game when you find the Cerberus Scientists in Andromeda. Miranda kicked them out for being creepy mad scientists lol!
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Post by apocalypticham on Jul 24, 2017 8:53:25 GMT
I'd almost reached the ending but the trial ended before I could. Still not sure if I want to buy the game even though it's 50% off here. Can anyone please tell me if there are any popular theories as to who or even what(AI??)the Benefactor is? I don't care about spoilers anymore so fire away lol thanks Starting at the beginning of the thread will provide plenty of theories 😊 This is not meant to be sarcastic. I read through them all, I could've typed more and conveyed my exact thought. English's not my first language, guess I created misunderstanding using the word "popular". Sorry about that. What I meant was: Is there any consensus on which one is the most plausible? I know they're all just theories, but still. I've been away from the BSN community for a long time, just trying to know people's general opinions, and that requires tens of hours of digging which I can't afford right now. Thank you
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Post by dazk on Jul 24, 2017 11:56:48 GMT
Starting at the beginning of the thread will provide plenty of theories 😊 This is not meant to be sarcastic. I read through them all, I could've typed more and conveyed my exact thought. English's not my first language, guess I created misunderstanding using the word "popular". Sorry about that. What I meant was: Is there any consensus on which one is the most plausible? I know they're all just theories, but still. I've been away from the BSN community for a long time, just trying to know people's general opinions, and that requires tens of hours of digging which I can't afford right now. Thank you No I don't think there's any consensus. Just lots of speculation 😉 My personal theory is the Geth and SAM together.
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Post by rma2110 on Jul 24, 2017 12:11:43 GMT
Why would the Geth even care? The Reapers are no threat to them. Just let the Reapers do thier thing and take over the Milky Way. Surprisingly kind of them considering how they've been treated. I'm starting to think there is a connection between the Jardaan and the Reapers. The Jardaan seem very into AI and inorganic life. Maybe someone thought they went too far? Maybe there was this huge conflict between the Jardan and thier creations. Maybe the reapers were created to make sure that nothing like that ever happens again. Also, I read somewhere the Mass Relays started as monoliths. Where have we see no monolit?! Just spitballing.
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Post by Antibaar on Jul 24, 2017 13:04:29 GMT
Benefactor its Kett:why? because they want to exaltate multiple and diverse species in the local group of galaxies.Maybe Andromeda galaxy has less species than MW.
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I've revived Shepard, but I'm sending him in a Suicide Mission.
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Post by MegaIllusiveMan on Jul 24, 2017 17:31:47 GMT
I found something worth mentioning in the Codex about the Tempest Stealth Systems "It's unknown how the Initiative acquired this system for its survey ships, as IES stealth technology is classified, despite valid security certificates, no record of negotiations exists in the Nexus legal archives" Normandy SR-2 also had this, after the first one was destroyed, and it was Built by Cerberus That may explain the SR-2 Model in Dad's Quarters and the Hologram on the Nexus. Cerberus is involved in the Andromeda Initiative. To what extent? He may have helped fund it, but he's such a human first a hole that I don't think he would support this at all unless it was only humans. He wouldn't send a 20,000 each council race on five arks. If TIM was The Benefactor he would mostly send 20,000 humans only or 100,000 humans. He wouldn't send melting pot of all the council races and non-council races. Plus, there is a datapad when you rescue Moshe Safae that suggests the Benefactor made it to Heleus and we know TIM obviously stayed behind. It said: We don't know if this is just another Kett title, but I don't think BioWare would use the same name twice. I know there is Cora Harper but there are multiple people who could have the same last name and not be related. I think the homeworld business part of it implies that this Benefactor is from Milky Way. If you were from Andromeda Galaxy I think that's a legitimate question ask if someone was from the Milly Way. I didn't say TIM was the Benefactor or Cerberus itself but someone with ties to the organization, who may not share the same ideal of it, but in the end, it was the safest bet. I'm sure someone would put prejudice aside to guarantee the survival of the human race, even if that includes traveling with certain aliens. If you have that amount of money to fund the Andromeda Initiave, it surely was noticed by other Races and they started wanting a passage to Andromeda. Without those aliens, AI wouldn't even be a reality. Vetra, Drack, Kesh, Kandros and even more helped the Project in their own way. Plus, it would be a dumb idea to bring only one kind of Milky Way specie to settle a whole galaxy.
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Post by dazk on Jul 24, 2017 22:05:38 GMT
Why would the Geth even care? The Reapers are no threat to them. Just let the Reapers do thier thing and take over the Milky Way. Surprisingly kind of them considering how they've been treated. I'm starting to think there is a connection between the Jardaan and the Reapers. The Jardaan seem very into AI and inorganic life. Maybe someone thought they went too far? Maybe there was this huge conflict between the Jardan and thier creations. Maybe the reapers were created to make sure that nothing like that ever happens again. Also, I read somewhere the Mass Relays started as monoliths. Where have we see no monolit?! Just spitballing. Why would the Geth care, myself and gladiolusofaugust spoke extensively about this earlier in the thread. In a nutshell: The Geth are threatened by the reapers as well. The Geth couldn't conceive of wiping out their creator race, so they may feel the same about seeing all organics wiped out. The Geth built the telescope used to observe Andromeda Geth code may have been obtained by the Shadow Broker and sold to Alec to develop Sam further The Geth may have been interested in SAM as an AI and especially as he is a bridge to understanding organics The Geth may have seen relocating to Andromeda as a fresh start regardless of the Reapers having built the FTL telescope to observe it. The Geth may have seen it as a fresh start with organics who now seem to want to embrace AI as they are developing more.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 24, 2017 23:49:56 GMT
Would Legion have known about the geth using relays as a telescope to look at Andromeda? Would Legion have known the geth were interested in the sam voice thing? When talking to Shepard in ME2,would Legion mention that the geth were interested in relocating to Andromeda as a fresh start?
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Post by dazk on Jul 25, 2017 0:10:47 GMT
Would Legion have known about the geth using relays as a telescope to look at Andromeda? Would Legion have known the geth were interested in the sam voice thing? When talking to Shepard in ME2,would Legion mention that the geth were interested in relocating to Andromeda as a fresh start? Good questions all. The only answer I am assuming to all of them is no or if he did at the ME2 stage he would not have been volunteering it, even in ME3 he withheld information and when Shepard finds out Legion is "embarrassed" for lack of a better word when Shepard calls him on it. They were still very isolationist then I believe.
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Post by SwobyJ on Jul 26, 2017 17:48:09 GMT
Legion talks more about the potential of the Reaper code upgrade than he does about the full survival of the geth.
Honestly another lie by omission is not something I'd be so surprised by.
But that's just me - Legion is a word often associated not just with a multitude of soldiers that fight for us, for example, but also a sort of crowd of demons that can possess us. Demons lie, its potentially bad to trust in them, yadda yadda. They, in this case, may be well-wishing (geth - Gethsemane - associations of preaching the word of God/positivity or whatever), but the geth also keep showing that any relationship with them will be difficult and dangerous, even if it arguably may, MAY, be worth it in the end. Just how I look at it.
Yes geth in Andromeda and Legion and mainline geth knowing this sort of thing would make the geth look significantly more duplicitous. Good. They are programs that can operate on a larger scale and that means more drip feeding of information to organics when it suits their very meaningful interests. Good. I don't need what may be my favorite entities/race/species in ME to become superrace of Mary Sues that we're all supposed to always love. They're isolated and often isolationist and withholding information for the sake of their survival is totally understandable, even if not 'good'.
If geth made it to Andromeda they'll be a different Consensus (or whatever they become) and the Milky Way Consensus will not have any evidence that they exist, so for all they know, Rannoch battle is all they got when it comes to their future. Secrets can and will happen.
Not to mention, it could very well be written that something smaller and accidental split off from the Consensus (so not even a willful partial separation like Legion), so there is little to no knowledge of it by the Consensus, so its a whole new world for these 'new' geth. Just as the geth were looking into dark space but it so far appears that Andromeda was an aftereffect of this effort, geth could have something else going on but the events of the Initiative tie into how geth get to happen in Andromeda. Remember that Bioware can have all sorts of things relate to the trilogy, but the goal is to have nothing *necessarily tie* to it. The fresh start thing.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
DazK1805
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Post by dazk on Jul 27, 2017 0:44:33 GMT
I really hope the Geth do come to Andromeda and as an ally, simply because I think it would be an interesting addition to the storyline and outcomes.
Can you imagine the leg up technology and production wise the Geth would, if allied bring to the Initiative???? It would be an enormous catalyst for growth by the initiative I believe and it may be the thing that proves the difference in any major confrontation with the Kett. What is it the scientist who scans you on Aya says, something like "your biology is not suited to Andromeda but your technology may make the difference". Geth technology would make that even more of a bonus.
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