stephenw32768
N3
Quarian Ally
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy
PSN: stephenw32768
Prime Posts: 433
Prime Likes: 679
Posts: 646 Likes: 3,000
inherit
350
0
Aug 31, 2016 18:47:06 GMT
3,000
stephenw32768
Quarian Ally
646
August 2016
stephenw32768
Mass Effect Trilogy
stephenw32768
433
679
|
Post by stephenw32768 on Jun 27, 2017 20:32:00 GMT
I like this DLC because, in no particular order: - it's fun to play, the combat is challenging in places, and the final boss is really fun;
- the missions are well-paced;
- I appreciate the not-so-different comparison between Vasir and Shepard;
- the writing in the car chase scene is laugh-out-loud funny. I also like the leaning-on-the-fourth-wall remark about omni-gel bypasses when breaking into the Broker's ship;
- I do like Liara as a character; I found her darker personality in ME2 rather troubling, and I appreciated Shepard having the opportunity to pull her back from the precipice.
|
|
Guts
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 788 Likes: 779
inherit
8463
0
779
Guts
788
May 17, 2017 21:57:52 GMT
May 2017
gatsu66
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Guts on Jun 27, 2017 23:21:45 GMT
When she display pathological behaviors; cyber stalking, collecting trophies from your corpse, emotional bribery; as a player, we should have the option to say no to her rather than encourage her further. But hurting Bioware's waifu would be oh so wrong. BTW, what kind of emotional bribery does she do and when?
|
|
Guts
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 788 Likes: 779
inherit
8463
0
779
Guts
788
May 17, 2017 21:57:52 GMT
May 2017
gatsu66
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Guts on Jun 27, 2017 23:28:38 GMT
BTW, I kinda came up with my own headcanon. The Liara we encounter in ME2, LoTSB, and ME3 isn't actually Liara, but rather an asari, presumably in the Matron/Matriarch phase, who is a yandere for Shepard. This asari then kills Liara and takes her Identity to get close to Shepard, in ME3 she figures she should try to act like Liara, but IMHO doesn't do a good job of it. This asari also happens to be seemingly perfect at everything. How'd I do?
|
|
dgcatanisiri
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 171 Likes: 824
inherit
4884
0
824
dgcatanisiri
171
Mar 17, 2017 23:31:21 GMT
March 2017
dgcatanisiri
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by dgcatanisiri on Jul 1, 2017 4:17:23 GMT
Player's agency is the key here. Every other character except her are optional, with or without romance state. There's multitude of path and interactions that you take that was carried through. But Liara is ALWAYS written the same in all four games. The ONLY difference for her is romance state but even this was heavily implied by Bioware that she is the default preferential romance. A lot of her characterization required a LOT of acceptance over her various behaviors and inconsistencies, instead of addressing each of them appropriately, they just pile on everything making her a multitasking genius archeologist superbiotic crime lord asari etc. I play Shepard as a woman who have no time to care about her because the galaxy need saving and there are more worrying things to do than giving attention to a childish alien and her excessive overly-attached crush. When she display pathological behaviors; cyber stalking, collecting trophies from your corpse, emotional bribery; as a player, we should have the option to say no to her rather than encourage her further. But Bioware are content with adding on every plot devices they could think off for that behaviors because she is the magical stagnant character that the fandom accept without questions. This preferential treatment for her alienate EVERY other characters in the game as if their presence was meaningless compared to Liara fans. And not every one of us like her and yet we're all being constantly reminded of this every single time we play the games. Through animations, through the stories. If you put off Therum until at the end of the game, EVERYONE telling you into to get her even when she's fairly useless without the Cipher and Virmire's beacon in combination. There's really no need for her to mind meld more than once. She is the default character in most of the DLCs; Lair of the Shadow Broker, From Ashes, Citadel DLC (especially if you don't romance other ME3's squadmate). You go to Andromeda and you can't even escape her finding some ways to leave a mark on Ryder's family. Things like these doesn't make her more endearing, we're sick of Liara T'Soni. Pretty much. It basically feels like BioWare has Glyph following her around flashing 'Shepard, you should totally embrace eternity with her.' The problem isn't even Liara inherently as a character. It's how the game twists and bends and warps around her to make her this constant feature, this permanent presence in Shepard's life. In ME3 specifically, with those post-dream conversations, those are a rare occasion for Shepard to undergo characterization dependent wholly on the player, how they're handling the stress and difficulty of the war. BUT they are Liara-exclusive, so if you don't have them with her, these moments don't happen. She is, in effect, standing in for any character who might be dead - but when she is standing in for a character who is still alive, then she feels like an intruder. The thing is, there really was a character arc to go with all this, in questioning her obsession with Shepard, with her devoting so much of her life and indeed her self in Shepard... But the game never explores that. It has the pieces assembled, but tries to ignore that, reiterating 'oh, isn't Liara just so great, player? Don't you just LOVE Liara? Don't you see the depths of Liara's love? Player, DO YOU LOVE LIARA YET? Because if not, we'll give you no fewer than twenty more opportunities to do so!' Like... I walk away from learning that she is involved in giving Cerberus Shepard's body, and I am PISSED. This hits my bodily autonomy buttons - regardless of what it means for the galaxy at large, FOR SHEPARD, she has done this thing to them without asking. We don't rip organs out of the recently deceased if they have expressed a desire to not be an organ donor, Do Not Resuscitate orders are a thing... She chose to put herself first. And this was for herself - across the board, she says that she did it because she 'couldn't let [Shepard] go.' Except in my games, with her not as my romance, Shepard isn't hers to 'let go' of in the first place! She does this, on her own too - all other characters are excluded from her recovering Shepard's body. Again, Liara could have had an interesting arc in bringing to light the unhealthiness of her tying herself up in the myth of Shepard, but nothing is done with it. Back on the topic of LotSB, the reason it's so well regarded is because of what it was in comparison to what surrounded it - DLC in ME1 was Bring Down the Sky (batarian shooting gallery) and Pinnacle Station (LITERAL shooting gallery). ME2's DLC was, before LotSB, a couple of companions who, aside from their loyalty missions, were almost entirely separate from the rest of the game (no recruitment missions, no interactions with other characters, no cutscene conversations...), and Firewalker/Overlord, which, again, not much story content. Then along came LotSB, and it had a story - it even had a story that continued from the end of ME2. It let players reunite and team up with a companion from ME1 who wasn't a companion in ME2 (even Liara detractors were appreciative of it, back in the day, thinking that the next DLC would do the same for Ashley/Kaidan). It even had an emotional conversation at the end that let Shepard develop as a character. At the time, it was innovative in comparison to the prior DLCs, setting the bar. In comparison to modern BioWare DLCs - Leviathan and Citadel, and even Inquisition's DLCs - it hasn't aged well, it's obviously a trial run, since Liara is the only squadmate whose dialogue isn't recycled from elsewhere in the game, it doesn't really tie in that well with the story, everything... But at the time? It was a major step forward in DLC.
|
|
Guts
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 788 Likes: 779
inherit
8463
0
779
Guts
788
May 17, 2017 21:57:52 GMT
May 2017
gatsu66
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Guts on Jul 1, 2017 4:49:10 GMT
Player's agency is the key here. Every other character except her are optional, with or without romance state. There's multitude of path and interactions that you take that was carried through. But Liara is ALWAYS written the same in all four games. The ONLY difference for her is romance state but even this was heavily implied by Bioware that she is the default preferential romance. A lot of her characterization required a LOT of acceptance over her various behaviors and inconsistencies, instead of addressing each of them appropriately, they just pile on everything making her a multitasking genius archeologist superbiotic crime lord asari etc. I play Shepard as a woman who have no time to care about her because the galaxy need saving and there are more worrying things to do than giving attention to a childish alien and her excessive overly-attached crush. When she display pathological behaviors; cyber stalking, collecting trophies from your corpse, emotional bribery; as a player, we should have the option to say no to her rather than encourage her further. But Bioware are content with adding on every plot devices they could think off for that behaviors because she is the magical stagnant character that the fandom accept without questions. This preferential treatment for her alienate EVERY other characters in the game as if their presence was meaningless compared to Liara fans. And not every one of us like her and yet we're all being constantly reminded of this every single time we play the games. Through animations, through the stories. If you put off Therum until at the end of the game, EVERYONE telling you into to get her even when she's fairly useless without the Cipher and Virmire's beacon in combination. There's really no need for her to mind meld more than once. She is the default character in most of the DLCs; Lair of the Shadow Broker, From Ashes, Citadel DLC (especially if you don't romance other ME3's squadmate). You go to Andromeda and you can't even escape her finding some ways to leave a mark on Ryder's family. Things like these doesn't make her more endearing, we're sick of Liara T'Soni. Pretty much. It basically feels like BioWare has Glyph following her around flashing 'Shepard, you should totally embrace eternity with her.' The problem isn't even Liara inherently as a character. It's how the game twists and bends and warps around her to make her this constant feature, this permanent presence in Shepard's life. In ME3 specifically, with those post-dream conversations, those are a rare occasion for Shepard to undergo characterization dependent wholly on the player, how they're handling the stress and difficulty of the war. BUT they are Liara-exclusive, so if you don't have them with her, these moments don't happen. She is, in effect, standing in for any character who might be dead - but when she is standing in for a character who is still alive, then she feels like an intruder. The thing is, there really was a character arc to go with all this, in questioning her obsession with Shepard, with her devoting so much of her life and indeed her self in Shepard... But the game never explores that. It has the pieces assembled, but tries to ignore that, reiterating 'oh, isn't Liara just so great, player? Don't you just LOVE Liara? Don't you see the depths of Liara's love? Player, DO YOU LOVE LIARA YET? Because if not, we'll give you no fewer than twenty more opportunities to do so!' Like... I walk away from learning that she is involved in giving Cerberus Shepard's body, and I am PISSED. This hits my bodily autonomy buttons - regardless of what it means for the galaxy at large, FOR SHEPARD, she has done this thing to them without asking. We don't rip organs out of the recently deceased if they have expressed a desire to not be an organ donor, Do Not Resuscitate orders are a thing... She chose to put herself first. And this was for herself - across the board, she says that she did it because she 'couldn't let [Shepard] go.' Except in my games, with her not as my romance, Shepard isn't hers to 'let go' of in the first place! She does this, on her own too - all other characters are excluded from her recovering Shepard's body. Again, Liara could have had an interesting arc in bringing to light the unhealthiness of her tying herself up in the myth of Shepard, but nothing is done with it. Back on the topic of LotSB, the reason it's so well regarded is because of what it was in comparison to what surrounded it - DLC in ME1 was Bring Down the Sky (batarian shooting gallery) and Pinnacle Station (LITERAL shooting gallery). ME2's DLC was, before LotSB, a couple of companions who, aside from their loyalty missions, were almost entirely separate from the rest of the game (no recruitment missions, no interactions with other characters, no cutscene conversations...), and Firewalker/Overlord, which, again, not much story content. Then along came LotSB, and it had a story - it even had a story that continued from the end of ME2. It let players reunite and team up with a companion from ME1 who wasn't a companion in ME2 (even Liara detractors were appreciative of it, back in the day, thinking that the next DLC would do the same for Ashley/Kaidan). It even had an emotional conversation at the end that let Shepard develop as a character. At the time, it was innovative in comparison to the prior DLCs, setting the bar. In comparison to modern BioWare DLCs - Leviathan and Citadel, and even Inquisition's DLCs - it hasn't aged well, it's obviously a trial run, since Liara is the only squadmate whose dialogue isn't recycled from elsewhere in the game, it doesn't really tie in that well with the story, everything... But at the time? It was a major step forward in DLC. I still don't get why some people think Liara's character development was good. To this end I am coming up with my own personal theory to explain this drastic change in character with Liara between ME1 and ME2, the basic gist is that the Liara that you encounter in ME2 and ME3 isn't really Liara, but rather another asari who is obsessed with you pretending to be her. I'm calling it the "Single Blue Female" theory. It takes influence from stuff like Berserk and even a little bit from Light Yagami (I'm not a weeb I promise).
|
|
brfritos
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 304 Likes: 501
inherit
8385
0
Sept 5, 2019 19:20:19 GMT
501
brfritos
304
May 2017
brfritos
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by brfritos on Jul 2, 2017 1:14:14 GMT
I actually agree with pretty much everything you said here, despite enjoying the DLC anyway. Liara is Shepard's 19-year-old clingy girlfriend/annoying former roommate in this DLC. I want to do Liara's full romance at some point because I do like her in ME3, but it's going to take some insane headcanoning to get through this episode and have Shepard still want to romance her.I especially agree with you about Shepard's inability to ask questions. The ruse in the apartment was so obvious, and yet Shepard is forced to be gullible about it.
Install Back Off mod, it does wonders not only to Liara, but pretty much to everyone else. Garrus, Liara and Tali for example don't suffer from amnesia anymore.
The only bad thing I can talk about the mod is removing the scene were Traynor checks femShep butt at the war room and Cortez "evaluating" other man at Purgatory. Preposterous right, how dare them not fall for Shepard unbelievable hotness.
|
|
inherit
Now Available As A Combo Meal!
984
0
16,408
dragontartare
Add a cookie for just $1.99 (plus tax)!
5,596
Aug 14, 2016 19:06:09 GMT
August 2016
dragontartare
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
DragonsALaMode
|
Post by dragontartare on Jul 2, 2017 1:15:48 GMT
I actually agree with pretty much everything you said here, despite enjoying the DLC anyway. Liara is Shepard's 19-year-old clingy girlfriend/annoying former roommate in this DLC. I want to do Liara's full romance at some point because I do like her in ME3, but it's going to take some insane headcanoning to get through this episode and have Shepard still want to romance her.I especially agree with you about Shepard's inability to ask questions. The ruse in the apartment was so obvious, and yet Shepard is forced to be gullible about it.
Install Back Off mod, it does wonders not only to Liara, but pretty much to everyone else. Garrus, Liara and Tali for example don't suffer from amnesia anymore.
The only bad thing I can talk about the mod is removing the scene were Traynor checks femShep butt at the war room and Cortez "evaluating" other man at Purgatory. Preposterous right, how dare them not fall for Shepard unbelievable hotness.
I think I've seen that on Nexusmods, but never looked at it. I'll check it out
|
|
Wildfire
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 219 Likes: 799
inherit
2795
0
Jul 16, 2021 22:39:12 GMT
799
Wildfire
219
January 2017
wildfire
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Wildfire on Jul 4, 2017 7:20:53 GMT
Largely agree with previous posters. I like the DLC, because it's fun to play and the story feels pretty compelling from start to finish. New environments, new characters, new enemies. And there's Tela Vasir :kiss: :hearteyes: Like themikefest , I would have preferred to take Vasir and dump Liara. I'm not sure about Liara's character development either, but I kinda can see what BW was trying to do with her. It's just a shame that they did the character development in some comic and that we don't really have an opportunity to reject Liara. For example, I would have also preferred the option to have renegade interrupts as well as paragon interrupts. That way, the player could have chosen their disposition. In my first PT of MET, I romanced Liara in ME1 and ME3 and no-one in ME2 (did not have Lair installed). The romance was sweet, but not very exciting. I've always considered Liara rather boring, and the Lair was basically the only reason why I wanted to romance her in ME1 during my current (second) PT. Well, maybe also because Kaidan is dreadful The final scene in the Normandy was nice as long as you decide to play along, I guess. But this time there's no chance that I'll stay faithful to her through the trilogy In general, I don't tend to be super bothered by the lack of roleplay. In fact, I actually like to play more fixed characters. So while I was at times dismayed by Liara, it was relatively easy for me to accept that BW clearly wanted to write a certain kind of relationship between Shep and the asari. So I just decided to go with the flow and the result isn't so unbearable. Although one would hope that if BW wants to give as a canon LI, they would be more interesting the next time
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
101
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 9:31:44 GMT
You know there's a silver lining for the folks who don't like the DLC or Liara. ME3 takes not playing LoTSB into account and has new dialogue to cover it. EDI refers to Liara as the SB and Shep is like 'Wait. What?? Liara's the shadow broker??' Feron dies and Liara is sad about it. Shep never learns that Liara saved his/her body (I think, it's been a while). And when the Yawg escapes at the lab you get different lines as Shep has never seen one before, as opposed to 'that guy might be the next shadow broker'. I love that BioWare references NOT playing their DLCs.
|
|
Guts
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 788 Likes: 779
inherit
8463
0
779
Guts
788
May 17, 2017 21:57:52 GMT
May 2017
gatsu66
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Guts on Jul 4, 2017 20:58:34 GMT
You know there's a silver lining for the folks who don't like the DLC or Liara. ME3 takes not playing LoTSB into account and has new dialogue to cover it. EDI refers to Liara as the SB and Shep is like 'Wait. What?? Liara's the shadow broker??' Feron dies and Liara is sad about it. Shep never learns that Liara saved his/her body (I think, it's been a while). And when the Yawg escapes at the lab you get different lines as Shep has never seen one before, as opposed to 'that guy might be the next shadow broker'. I love that BioWare references NOT playing their DLCs. True, still I wasn't fond of Liara becoming the SB. As I've said before, if ME1 Liara is anything to go off of, then being the SB just didn't fit with her character at all. It would have been cool if the SB resources were at least destroyed if you didn't do the DLC. It just seems like Bioware's logic was, "Liara is going to be the Shadow Broker and SHES GOING TO LIKE IT!" Also to reply to one of your earlier posts, the main reason people consider Liara a writer's pet is due to the fact that she has more intimate scenes than most love interests, regardless of whether or not you romanced her, and the plot at times seems like it's being manipulated to have Liara come along solve the problems, seemingly giving her all sorts random skills as the series goes on. I didn't mind this in the first game as she was established as being an archaeologist, so finding Ilos came down to her mind-meld thing, because asari, and because of her prior research. As the series went on however, the multitude of skills she, ahem, "acquired" became RIDONKULOUS.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
101
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 21:22:49 GMT
You know there's a silver lining for the folks who don't like the DLC or Liara. ME3 takes not playing LoTSB into account and has new dialogue to cover it. EDI refers to Liara as the SB and Shep is like 'Wait. What?? Liara's the shadow broker??' Feron dies and Liara is sad about it. Shep never learns that Liara saved his/her body (I think, it's been a while). And when the Yawg escapes at the lab you get different lines as Shep has never seen one before, as opposed to 'that guy might be the next shadow broker'. I love that BioWare references NOT playing their DLCs. True, still I wasn't fond of Liara becoming the SB. As I've said before, if ME1 Liara is anything to go off of, then being the SB just didn't fit with her character at all. It would have been cool if the SB resources were at least destroyed if you didn't do the DLC. It just seems like Bioware's logic was, "Liara is going to be the Shadow Broker and SHES GOING TO LIKE IT!" Also to reply to one of your earlier posts, the main reason people consider Liara a writer's pet is due to the fact that she has more intimate scenes than most love interests, regardless of whether or not you romanced her, and the plot at times seems like it's being manipulated to have Liara come along solve the problems, seemingly giving her all sorts random skills as the series goes on. I didn't mind this in the first game as she was established as being an archaeologist, so finding Ilos came down to her mind-meld thing, because asari, and because of her prior research. As the series went on however, the multitude of skills she, ahem, "acquired" became RIDONKULOUS. I guess. It's just not an issue for me as in my 'I don't like Liara' playthrough I simply ignored her and the DLC. Consequently she was barely in the game and didn't even give Shep the 'gift' at the end of ME3. So I feel like not liking her is actually acknowledged in the game. She's also very young in ME1. In my mind she does a lot of growing up and changes as part of that.
|
|
Guts
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 788 Likes: 779
inherit
8463
0
779
Guts
788
May 17, 2017 21:57:52 GMT
May 2017
gatsu66
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Guts on Jul 4, 2017 21:27:49 GMT
True, still I wasn't fond of Liara becoming the SB. As I've said before, if ME1 Liara is anything to go off of, then being the SB just didn't fit with her character at all. It would have been cool if the SB resources were at least destroyed if you didn't do the DLC. It just seems like Bioware's logic was, "Liara is going to be the Shadow Broker and SHES GOING TO LIKE IT!" Also to reply to one of your earlier posts, the main reason people consider Liara a writer's pet is due to the fact that she has more intimate scenes than most love interests, regardless of whether or not you romanced her, and the plot at times seems like it's being manipulated to have Liara come along solve the problems, seemingly giving her all sorts random skills as the series goes on. I didn't mind this in the first game as she was established as being an archaeologist, so finding Ilos came down to her mind-meld thing, because asari, and because of her prior research. As the series went on however, the multitude of skills she, ahem, "acquired" became RIDONKULOUS. I guess. It's just not an issue for me as in my 'I don't like Liara' playthrough I simply ignored her and the DLC. Consequently she was barely in the game and didn't even give Shep the 'gift' at the end of ME3. So I feel like not liking her is actually acknowledged in the game. She's also very young in ME1. In my mind she does a lot of growing up and changes as part of that. True, she needs to develop over the course of the game, not just remain a naive archaeologist, I'm just saying the way it was handled was piss poor. I don't think anyone changes THAT much over the course of two years. Regardless, I'm glad you enjoyed the DLC. I think unique areas in DLC is a good thing. That's why I enjoyed Leviathan.
|
|
inherit
8902
0
2,692
obbie1984
840
July 2017
obbie1984
|
Post by obbie1984 on Jul 4, 2017 22:54:26 GMT
SoTB was good DLC. It featured:
- Interesting locations - Fun gameplay - You actually got to see the Shadow Broker - Epic vanguard battle with Tela Vasir especially if you are a vanguard yourself (seriously, she is the only asari vanguard in ME2 that is even remotely a threat) - The Shadow Broker's ship area was really cool (doing pull field and seeing several mercenaries get propelled off the ship was hilarious) - Had some decent jokes and references to ME1
With that said, I personally cannot stand Liara. She's the worst character in the trilogy for me and this DLC just shows the Liara bias Bioware had. If you were a Kaidan or Ashley fan and romanced them, well screw you. Instead you're stuck with Liara who puts a personal grudge against the Shadow Broker over stopping a galaxy wide threat. And her development in it is pretty hard to take seriously.
Also, if you were rude to Liara or didn't even talk to her in ME1, she automatically becomes like your best friend. And it makes no sense that Liara seemed to be the ONLY one who cared enough about Shepard to revive him/her. This comes off as especially strange if you barely spoke to her in ME1. And the fact that she doesn't tell Kaiden/Ash about it either if you are with them. I actually ignore the paragon prompts after you kill Tela because it forces you to call her your friend as well. No thanks.
The DLC itself is awesome, but I dislike Liara's inclusion in it. But I can see why people who like Liara and her romance might love it.
|
|
Guts
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 788 Likes: 779
inherit
8463
0
779
Guts
788
May 17, 2017 21:57:52 GMT
May 2017
gatsu66
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Guts on Jul 5, 2017 0:33:19 GMT
SoTB was good DLC. It featured: - Interesting locations - Fun gameplay - You actually got to see the Shadow Broker - Epic vanguard battle with Tela Vasir especially if you are a vanguard yourself (seriously, she is the only asari vanguard in ME2 that is even remotely a threat) - The Shadow Broker's ship area was really cool (doing pull field and seeing several mercenaries get propelled off the ship was hilarious) - Had some decent jokes and references to ME1 With that said, I personally cannot stand Liara. She's the worst character in the trilogy for me and this DLC just shows the Liara bias Bioware had. If you were a Kaidan or Ashley fan and romanced them, well screw you. Instead you're stuck with Liara who puts a personal grudge against the Shadow Broker over stopping a galaxy wide threat. And her development in it is pretty hard to take seriously. Also, if you were rude to Liara or didn't even talk to her in ME1, she automatically becomes like your best friend. And it makes no sense that Liara seemed to be the ONLY one who cared enough about Shepard to revive him/her. This comes off as especially strange if you barely spoke to her in ME1. And the fact that she doesn't tell Kaiden/Ash about it either if you are with them. I actually ignore the paragon prompts after you kill Tela because it forces you to call her your friend as well. No thanks. The DLC itself is awesome, but I dislike Liara's inclusion in it. But I can see why people who like Liara and her romance might love it. This is exactly what themikefest was talking about when it came down to Liara being your "best friend". If you treated her like shit in ME1, for some reason she's your best friend. It's like she has a fucked up way of interpreting love. Tali's transition was so much smoother. Plus, IIRC, Liara didn't have much combat experience in ME1.
|
|
yan
N3
Posts: 322 Likes: 692
inherit
803
0
Mar 30, 2022 21:47:44 GMT
692
yan
322
August 2016
yan
|
Post by yan on Jul 5, 2017 1:22:27 GMT
Quick reply Agree. That said, fun combat, cool bosses and awesome locations. Good DLC.
|
|
yan
N3
Posts: 322 Likes: 692
inherit
803
0
Mar 30, 2022 21:47:44 GMT
692
yan
322
August 2016
yan
|
Post by yan on Jul 5, 2017 1:43:37 GMT
Another thing. Okay, I understand Liara is the perfect waifu for Bioware devs and YOU HAVE TO LOVE HER like they do, but why did not they make Miri the new Broker? Seriously, any logical explanation other than mine for not having happened that? Hell, even Parassini would be a better choice.
|
|
Guts
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 788 Likes: 779
inherit
8463
0
779
Guts
788
May 17, 2017 21:57:52 GMT
May 2017
gatsu66
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Guts on Jul 5, 2017 1:57:46 GMT
Another thing. Okay, I understand Liara is the perfect waifu for Bioware devs and YOU HAVE TO LOVE HER like they do, but why did not they make Miri the new Broker? Seriously, any logical explanation other than mine for not having happened that? Hell, even Parassini would be a better choice. That's exactly what I was thinking, I mean, she's smart, she's ruthless when she needs to be, she believe's in expanding humanity's interests, she could look after Oriana. I mean shes far more qualified than Liara could EVER be.
|
|
XJlock
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 176 Likes: 120
inherit
8826
0
Jun 26, 2017 17:58:04 GMT
120
XJlock
176
Jun 25, 2017 23:54:42 GMT
June 2017
xjlock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by XJlock on Jul 5, 2017 3:30:03 GMT
Another thing. Okay, I understand Liara is the perfect waifu for Bioware devs and YOU HAVE TO LOVE HER like they do, but why did not they make Miri the new Broker? Seriously, any logical explanation other than mine for not having happened that? Hell, even Parassini would be a better choice. Perhaps, they chose her due to the longevity of her lifespan. For example, if there were games set in years later after Shepard is long dead, it could be a ploy to make T'Soni appear in every subsequent games alongside new future protagonist because of the reputation of the Shadow Broker has in the Milky Way. It could probably work as long as she does not get herself killed in combat or even becomes terminally ill among other things.
|
|
inherit
8902
0
2,692
obbie1984
840
July 2017
obbie1984
|
Post by obbie1984 on Jul 5, 2017 5:41:50 GMT
Yeah, my bad. I didn't read through the whole topic. I just wanted to give my two cents on the DLC really quick.
But I agree. Its one of the reasons I do not like her character and will never romance her. I just watched it on Youtube. She comes off as really creepy and almost borderline obsessed with Shepard. I think nearly every other romance in the trilogy comes off as more natural or interesting. I know Ashley is widely disliked, but I think her conversation and progression is more interesting. Just as an example, especially since she had some sort of rivalry with Liara.
And its not just her character development either. Liara's VA tries so hard to make her seem hardened and colder or something. It comes off as annoying, husky, and contrived. Her VA was the best in ME1 when she sounded green and naive. And by ME3, her character is just so irritatingly bad to me.
|
|
Guts
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 788 Likes: 779
inherit
8463
0
779
Guts
788
May 17, 2017 21:57:52 GMT
May 2017
gatsu66
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Guts on Jul 5, 2017 6:46:59 GMT
Yeah, my bad. I didn't read through the whole topic. I just wanted to give my two cents on the DLC really quick. But I agree. Its one of the reasons I do not like her character and will never romance her. I just watched it on Youtube. She comes off as really creepy and almost borderline obsessed with Shepard. I think nearly every other romance in the trilogy comes off as more natural or interesting. I know Ashley is widely disliked, but I think her conversation and progression is more interesting. Just as an example, especially since she had some sort of rivalry with Liara. And its not just her character development either. Liara's VA tries so hard to make her seem hardened and colder or something. It comes off as annoying, husky, and contrived. Her VA was the best in ME1 when she sounded green and naive. And by ME3, her character is just so irritatingly bad to me. I think it comes down to how she was written in ME3, I mean war is hell but they went a little overboard to try to make her look hardened. As I said, I felt ME1 Liara was the best version. I liked how adorkable she was, she could handle herself in a fight, and if you reject her, she's at least mature about it admitting if you chose Ashley over her that she made the mistake of thinking you liked her as something more. Later on that's thrown out the window and replaced with, as you said, the Liara that seems borderline obsessed with you.
|
|
dgcatanisiri
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 171 Likes: 824
inherit
4884
0
824
dgcatanisiri
171
Mar 17, 2017 23:31:21 GMT
March 2017
dgcatanisiri
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by dgcatanisiri on Jul 5, 2017 23:36:14 GMT
Yeah, my bad. I didn't read through the whole topic. I just wanted to give my two cents on the DLC really quick. But I agree. Its one of the reasons I do not like her character and will never romance her. I just watched it on Youtube. She comes off as really creepy and almost borderline obsessed with Shepard. I think nearly every other romance in the trilogy comes off as more natural or interesting. I know Ashley is widely disliked, but I think her conversation and progression is more interesting. Just as an example, especially since she had some sort of rivalry with Liara. And its not just her character development either. Liara's VA tries so hard to make her seem hardened and colder or something. It comes off as annoying, husky, and contrived. Her VA was the best in ME1 when she sounded green and naive. And by ME3, her character is just so irritatingly bad to me. I think it comes down to how she was written in ME3, I mean war is hell but they went a little overboard to try to make her look hardened. As I said, I felt ME1 Liara was the best version. I liked how adorkable she was, she could handle herself in a fight, and if you reject her, she's at least mature about it admitting if you chose Ashley over her that she made the mistake of thinking you liked her as something more. Later on that's thrown out the window and replaced with, as you said, the Liara that seems borderline obsessed with you. 'Borderline'? She has the armor Shepard died in enshrined in her apartment, regardless of romance status. This crossed the border a long way back. I legit worry about Liara's mental state after the end of the game and Shepard dies - Her staring longingly at a photo of Shepard for the next nine hundred years is a BEST case scenario here.
|
|
inherit
8902
0
2,692
obbie1984
840
July 2017
obbie1984
|
Post by obbie1984 on Jul 5, 2017 23:56:50 GMT
I totally forgot about her encasing Shepard's armor in her apartment. That makes her much more of a creeper than anything. What makes Liara even worse is that I've sometimes been roped into a romance with her and I didn't even know it in ME1. It seems just being nice to her can rope her in. So she sucks even there too. I remember I wanted to romance Ash and I even got the line where she says "don't worry Shepard, I'll protect you." I remember that is about the last line of romance dialogue you can really get before Virmire. I talked to Liara and was nice to her the whole time and I even said it was alright that she was interested in me but didn't make it clear I was into Ashley. But I didn't say I was interested in her either. I didn't even get the "catfight" scene between the two. Instead after Virmire, Ash got friendzoned and Liara became my romance. I was very confused and angry especially since I didn't have a save file to change my mistake as I overwrote it. Its partly my fault, but screw that. I abandoned the whole run. After that, I either ignore Liara or am outright rude to her so it never happens again. Even if my character is a paragon. And what makes me hate her even more is Miranda is usually my girl in most ME runs. But in the Citadel DLC you are forced to have Liara come to your rescue and she even flirts with you. Even if you never talk to her. And in the ending she is the one holding your plaque. Once again, even if you never spoke to her. Its annoying and absurd. Why can't it be Kaidan or Garrus? Or even James? I talked to them way more. I like Ash's romance but I prefer Kaidan. Sometimes I will keep her alive simply so I can have a character I like holding my plaque in ME3. Sorry, I really hate Liara.
|
|
Guts
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 788 Likes: 779
inherit
8463
0
779
Guts
788
May 17, 2017 21:57:52 GMT
May 2017
gatsu66
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Guts on Jul 6, 2017 1:51:56 GMT
I think it comes down to how she was written in ME3, I mean war is hell but they went a little overboard to try to make her look hardened. As I said, I felt ME1 Liara was the best version. I liked how adorkable she was, she could handle herself in a fight, and if you reject her, she's at least mature about it admitting if you chose Ashley over her that she made the mistake of thinking you liked her as something more. Later on that's thrown out the window and replaced with, as you said, the Liara that seems borderline obsessed with you. 'Borderline'? She has the armor Shepard died in enshrined in her apartment, regardless of romance status. This crossed the border a long way back. I legit worry about Liara's mental state after the end of the game and Shepard dies - Her staring longingly at a photo of Shepard for the next nine hundred years is a BEST case scenario here. Yeeaaah, that borderline thing was a bit of an understatement. I thought ME1 Liara was at least mentally stable, but she progresses into Yandere territory in the later games. Plus, how did she acquire skills as an info broker? She hated Noveria in ME1, but no, all of the sudden she's apparently "very good" at info brokering. Didn't you also bring up how Bioware kinda manipulates the events to fit Liara in there?
|
|
dgcatanisiri
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 171 Likes: 824
inherit
4884
0
824
dgcatanisiri
171
Mar 17, 2017 23:31:21 GMT
March 2017
dgcatanisiri
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by dgcatanisiri on Jul 6, 2017 2:52:27 GMT
'Borderline'? She has the armor Shepard died in enshrined in her apartment, regardless of romance status. This crossed the border a long way back. I legit worry about Liara's mental state after the end of the game and Shepard dies - Her staring longingly at a photo of Shepard for the next nine hundred years is a BEST case scenario here. Yeeaaah, that borderline thing was a bit of an understatement. I thought ME1 Liara was at least mentally stable, but she progresses into Yandere territory in the later games. Plus, how did she acquire skills as an info broker? She hated Noveria in ME1, but no, all of the sudden she's apparently "very good" at info brokering. Didn't you also bring up how Bioware kinda manipulates the events to fit Liara in there? See, broadly, I can accept the information broker thing - it's got similarities to archeology, in sifting through things to uncover hidden secrets. Liara just trades physical dig sites for bytes and data. Plus, given Illium as an asari world, I wouldn't be surprised if she'd banked some on Benezia's name to get her status in the course of two years. The issue is just this is headcanon spackling the holes, and yeah, this is total manipulation on BioWare's part. They made her go find Shepard's body on her own, without any of the other crew, including possibly Shepard's ACTUAL romantic partner, and... Really, I watch the opening of ME2, I 100% believe Miranda and Cerberus going out there and recovering Shepard's body on their own. Involving Liara in this, making her complicit in Cerberus's mad science to defy the laws of nature and man to bring Shepard back... If you're romancing her, sure, it's this big romantic moment, that she loves you so much (though that's frankly still concerning, given that she would have known Shepard for, generously, six months max at the time of their death, and she has wrapped herself up so completely in the role of 'Liara T'Shepard'), but even with a romance, I'd honestly be concerned about it, because it IS making her life all about Shepard. And if you're not romancing her, it comes across as something she did entirely for herself - she couldn't 'let' Shepard go, she says, across the board. And Shepard doesn't even have the opportunity to be angry about it. There's a dialogue that's angry about her keeping her involvement a secret, which I think is bugged out so if you don't take it the first time you get it, you don't get to use it ever, and it loops around to the 'let me know if there's anything else I can do to help' dialogue. And, again, is all about her hiding her involvement, not the fact that she did this in the first place. I basically have to approach her armed with a veritable armory of headcanon to look at her actions and still like her as a character, because she is so tragically mishandled by her writing, not her as an individual - I've written a couple of 'therapy' fics that involve Liara being called out for her actions that reframe these things that the game portrays without a second thought to be things that the characters around her are actually reacting to and acknowledging as kinda messed up.
|
|
Guts
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 788 Likes: 779
inherit
8463
0
779
Guts
788
May 17, 2017 21:57:52 GMT
May 2017
gatsu66
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Guts on Jul 6, 2017 3:45:41 GMT
Yeeaaah, that borderline thing was a bit of an understatement. I thought ME1 Liara was at least mentally stable, but she progresses into Yandere territory in the later games. Plus, how did she acquire skills as an info broker? She hated Noveria in ME1, but no, all of the sudden she's apparently "very good" at info brokering. Didn't you also bring up how Bioware kinda manipulates the events to fit Liara in there? See, broadly, I can accept the information broker thing - it's got similarities to archeology, in sifting through things to uncover hidden secrets. Liara just trades physical dig sites for bytes and data. Plus, given Illium as an asari world, I wouldn't be surprised if she'd banked some on Benezia's name to get her status in the course of two years. The issue is just this is headcanon spackling the holes, and yeah, this is total manipulation on BioWare's part. They made her go find Shepard's body on her own, without any of the other crew, including possibly Shepard's ACTUAL romantic partner, and... Really, I watch the opening of ME2, I 100% believe Miranda and Cerberus going out there and recovering Shepard's body on their own. Involving Liara in this, making her complicit in Cerberus's mad science to defy the laws of nature and man to bring Shepard back... If you're romancing her, sure, it's this big romantic moment, that she loves you so much (though that's frankly still concerning, given that she would have known Shepard for, generously, six months max at the time of their death, and she has wrapped herself up so completely in the role of 'Liara T'Shepard'), but even with a romance, I'd honestly be concerned about it, because it IS making her life all about Shepard. And if you're not romancing her, it comes across as something she did entirely for herself - she couldn't 'let' Shepard go, she says, across the board. And Shepard doesn't even have the opportunity to be angry about it. There's a dialogue that's angry about her keeping her involvement a secret, which I think is bugged out so if you don't take it the first time you get it, you don't get to use it ever, and it loops around to the 'let me know if there's anything else I can do to help' dialogue. And, again, is all about her hiding her involvement, not the fact that she did this in the first place. I basically have to approach her armed with a veritable armory of headcanon to look at her actions and still like her as a character, because she is so tragically mishandled by her writing, not her as an individual - I've written a couple of 'therapy' fics that involve Liara being called out for her actions that reframe these things that the game portrays without a second thought to be things that the characters around her are actually reacting to and acknowledging as kinda messed up. I remember reading about signs of bad character development, and a major one was that it leads to the feeling that the events of the story are being manipulated to have a character fit into them. I also agree that I had to make a theory up, just to make everything, well, make sense. That ME2 Liara was a different asari with an obsession with you who kills ME1 Liara to be with you, think about it, ME1 Liara would be an easy target for manipulation, a shy, kind-hearted, naive archaeologist with bad social skills. (Sorry if I'm sounding like a total smartass at all.)
|
|