Why does everyone like Lair of the Shadow Broker?

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Why does everyone like Lair of the Shadow Broker? Jul 6, 2017 6:23:59 GMT opuspace, Phantom, and 2 more like this

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Post by yan on Jul 6, 2017 6:23:59 GMT

See, broadly, I can accept the information broker thing

Desagree.

Does BioWare want her to be the canonical romance? Okay, this I can accept. That she has the armor from an ex companion dead in action exposed in her home? No problem. But I do not accept that in two years she has become one of the best informants in the galaxy. She did not know at the time of the 1st what is a joke, ffs.

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	Last Edit: Jul 6, 2017 13:57:51 GMT by Railrafale

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Why does everyone like Lair of the Shadow Broker? Jul 6, 2017 17:44:31 GMT opuspace, xarcadeassassin, and 1 more like this

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Post by ioannisdenton on Jul 6, 2017 17:44:31 GMT

Jun 23, 2017 4:35:16 GMT Guts said:

Personally I never got why so many people liked it. I played through it a couple of times and couldn't help but think, "Something seems wrong with Liara's character development." Now before people get mad, I personally need to say that I liked Liara in ME1, but her character development in ME2, LoTSB, and ME3 made little to no sense to me. I mean she starts off as a shy archaeologist who clearly disliked being on Noveria, if you didn't romance her, she'd forget it and move on. In ME2, virtually every part of her ME1 personality seems to have been thrown out the fucking window. I get that the whole thing was supposed to be an act but LoTSB seems to make things even more contradictory by having Liara say that she wants to use the resources to help you stop the resources, but also says that she feels like she "belongs there" like it's for some reason a dream job. ME3 Liara is closer to ME1 Liara, but it still seems like the writers couldn't decide whether she should be the an archaeologist or an info broker, she also had a really bad habit of using the resources to spy on people, rather than actually use the resources to, idk, HELP STOP THE REAPERS, and just proved to be a useless shadow broker in general. I seriously want to know why people like LoTSB and ME2 and ME3 Liara so much, because it just comes across like bad character development. (Feel free to correct me in areas if I am wrong)

'cause of this

It get me. E V E R Y T I M E

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Why does everyone like Lair of the Shadow Broker? Jul 6, 2017 18:39:30 GMT flyingovertrout, stephenw32768, and 1 more like this

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Post by vilio1 on Jul 6, 2017 18:39:30 GMT

Liara, banter, combat, soundtrack, visuals, story, bonuses and stasis. Best overall DLC for Mass Effect imo

Not having played ME1, I didn't have a whole lot invested in her, but there was so much of her in that one DLC that it made me such a Liara fan. As for the dream job part, Liara's an introvert that prefers her solitude. This is why Liara ultimately prefers the Shadow Broker position, she gains the solitude back after Ilium and usually only interacts with close friends on a day to day basis (Feron and Shepard)

Last Edit: Jul 6, 2017 18:46:32 GMT by vilio1

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Why does everyone like Lair of the Shadow Broker? Jul 6, 2017 20:53:10 GMT opuspace and xarcadeassassin like this

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Post by Guts on Jul 6, 2017 20:53:10 GMT

I find it hard to believe that Liara would all of the sudden WANT to become the shadow broker, I mean if it's to stop the reapers, that's one thing, still hate that though, but seriously, did her passion for archaeology DIE when Shepard did. That's...I don't know. 50 years of her life spent studying archaeology, she could've been absent from ME2 for the most part but it was because she is using her knowledge to find some way to stop the reapers, like how Tali went back to her people regardless of how Shepard treated her. 50 years of archaeology and it seems like she decides to throw it all away because someone who may or may not even care about her dies. I've been like that in high school and it was utterly pathetic. (Wow this was really hateful of me)

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Why does everyone like Lair of the Shadow Broker? Jul 6, 2017 21:10:17 GMT opuspace and obbie1984 like this

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Post by themikefest on Jul 6, 2017 21:10:17 GMT

Jul 5, 2017 23:56:50 GMT obbie1984 said:

And what makes me hate her even more is Miranda is usually my girl in most ME runs. But in the Citadel DLC you are forced to have Liara come to your rescue and she even flirts with you.

You're not the only one. People were mentioning that after the dlc was released

And in the ending she is the one holding your plaque. Once again, even if you never spoke to her.

I don't have an answer to that especially since you mentioned you never talked to her. The times I didn't romance anyone or I romanced Miranda, Samantha was the one to hold the nameplate. The only other character I had hold Shepard's nameplate was Ashley. That's because I romanced her.

Usually its the character you talk with the most that will hold the nameplate. That's how I was able to get Samantha to hold the nameplate.

If you play ME3 again, talk to the character you want to hold the nameplate all the time. As a side note. If you talk with Liara and other characters the same amount, she takes priority unless you're romancing someone

Here's something that might upset you. If you take her on the beam run with your ems below 2000, Harbinger will kill her and the other squadmate. When Shepard chooses one of the endings, Liara will always be in the middle flashback unless she is being romanced.

Here's another one. Before the release of the extended cut, if the player did not romance Liara, Ashley or Kaidan, Liara would always show up in the third flashback. Fortunately the extended cut fixed that.

Another thing is without Cerberus and Feron, Liara would never have made any effort to help locate Shepard's corpse.

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Why does everyone like Lair of the Shadow Broker? Jul 6, 2017 23:08:23 GMT

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Post by brfritos on Jul 6, 2017 23:08:23 GMT

Jul 6, 2017 21:10:17 GMT themikefest said:

Here's something that might upset you. If you take her on the beam run with your ems below 2000, Harbinger will kill her and the other squadmate. When Shepard chooses one of the endings, Liara will always be in the middle flashback unless she is being romanced.

Totally off topic, but the death of your squad when running to the beam was a lot better before the EC.

And gruesome.

As for characters, well...

Every author has his preferences. Neil Gaiman has a personal preference for Death for example, while I didn't liked her a single bit.

The same goes for FNV, every dev had a preference regarding companions, being Cass, Arcade, Veronica, Lily, Raul, etc.

The main issue is not this IMO, but the fact we don't have a choice in a game that call itself "xRPG".

Perhaps is my fault: my very first RPG game was Fallout 1, so I'm used to have real choices regarding main characters, NPCs and story. :wizard:

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Why does everyone like Lair of the Shadow Broker? Jul 6, 2017 23:11:57 GMT brfritos likes this

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Post by Guts on Jul 6, 2017 23:11:57 GMT

Jul 6, 2017 23:08:23 GMT brfritos said:

Jul 6, 2017 21:10:17 GMT themikefest said:

Here's something that might upset you. If you take her on the beam run with your ems below 2000, Harbinger will kill her and the other squadmate. When Shepard chooses one of the endings, Liara will always be in the middle flashback unless she is being romanced.

Totally off topic, but the death of your squad when running to the beam was a lot better before the EC.

And gruesome.

As for characters, well...

Every author has his preferences. Neil Gaiman has a personal preference for Death for example, while I didn't liked her a single bit.

The same goes for FNV, every dev had a preference regarding companions, being Cass, Arcade, Veronica, Lily, Raul, etc.

The main issue is not this IMO, but the fact we don't have a choice in a game that call itself "xRPG".

Perhaps is my fault: my very first RPG game was Fallout 1, so I'm used to have real choices regarding main characters, NPCs and story. :wizard:

I have fallout 1 on steam. Holy shit that game was violent, and it was glorious. I currently got the water chip and I need to destroy the master.
Favorite RPG though would have to be Deus Ex Human Revolution or Demon's/Dark Souls. (Off topic, but PRAISE THE SUN!)

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Why does everyone like Lair of the Shadow Broker? Jul 6, 2017 23:29:58 GMT dmc1001 likes this

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Post by brfritos on Jul 6, 2017 23:29:58 GMT

Jul 6, 2017 23:11:57 GMT Guts said:

Jul 6, 2017 23:08:23 GMT brfritos said:

Totally off topic, but the death of your squad when running to the beam was a lot better before the EC.

And gruesome.

As for characters, well...

Every author has his preferences. Neil Gaiman has a personal preference for Death for example, while I didn't liked her a single bit.

The same goes for FNV, every dev had a preference regarding companions, being Cass, Arcade, Veronica, Lily, Raul, etc.

The main issue is not this IMO, but the fact we don't have a choice in a game that call itself "xRPG".

Perhaps is my fault: my very first RPG game was Fallout 1, so I'm used to have real choices regarding main characters, NPCs and story. :wizard:

I have fallout 1 on steam. Holy shit that game was violent, and it was glorious. I currently got the water chip and I need to destroy the master.
Favorite RPG though would have to be Deus Ex Human Revolution or Demon's/Dark Souls. (Off topic, but PRAISE THE SUN!)

I still consider Fallout 1 a perfect example of what a RPG should be, as I consider the first Alien movie a perfect example of terror in space (and the second one the perfect action movie).

F1 is extremely violent, it got a ton of problems when released because of this and some decisions you could make.

I still laugh when listen Hillary Clinton bashing GTA and saying Rockstar should be closed because games are a danger to people.

I think she never played Fallout 1. :lol:

You know the best coincidence of all? ME1 first mission, the mythical Eden Prime run, plays a lot like the intro in F1.

Not regarding the decisions, in F1 you have more freedom, but the rest is pretty much of it.

I remember after installing the game the first thing I did in the settings section was disabling the tutorial.

It was simply a blast!

Go there, do that.

Wait, what key I press, where should I go and what should I do?

Deal with it moron (and pay attention to the HUD and dialog, would you).

Never forgeting it was simply a stright line in the thing they called "map".

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Why does everyone like Lair of the Shadow Broker? Jul 6, 2017 23:39:21 GMT

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Post by Guts on Jul 6, 2017 23:39:21 GMT

Jul 6, 2017 23:29:58 GMT brfritos said:

Jul 6, 2017 23:11:57 GMT Guts said:

I have fallout 1 on steam. Holy shit that game was violent, and it was glorious. I currently got the water chip and I need to destroy the master.
Favorite RPG though would have to be Deus Ex Human Revolution or Demon's/Dark Souls. (Off topic, but PRAISE THE SUN!)

I still consider Fallout 1 a perfect example of what a RPG should be, as I consider the first Alien movie a perfect example of terror in space (and the second one the perfect action movie).

F1 is extremely violent, it got a ton of problems when released because of this and some decisions you could make.

I still laugh when listen Hillary Clinton bashing GTA and saying Rockstar should be closed because games are a danger to people.

I think she never played Fallout 1. :lol:

You know the best coincidence of all? ME1 first mission, the mythical Eden Prime run, plays a lot like the intro in F1.

Not regarding the decisions, in F1 you have more freedom, but the rest is pretty much of it.

I remember after installing the game the first thing I did in the settings section was disabling the tutorial.

It was simply a blast!

Go there, do that.

Wait, what key I press, where should I go and what should I do?

Deal with it moron (and pay attention to the HUD and dialog, would you).

Never forgeting it was simply a stright line in the thing they called "map".

Hillary Clinton should've looked at the game "Hatred". (Still hate deathclaws BTW)

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Why does everyone like Lair of the Shadow Broker? Jul 6, 2017 23:57:07 GMT

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Post by themikefest on Jul 6, 2017 23:57:07 GMT

Jul 6, 2017 23:08:23 GMT brfritos said:

Totally off topic, but the death of your squad when running to the beam was a lot better before the EC.

And gruesome.

I only did one low ems run before the extended cut was released, but I do agree.

Last Edit: Jul 7, 2017 3:32:00 GMT by themikefest

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Why does everyone like Lair of the Shadow Broker? Jul 7, 2017 3:30:15 GMT

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Post by Guts on Jul 7, 2017 3:30:15 GMT

Biggest apologies for that freakout I had earlier.

When it came down to Liara being the broker, I think the only way it would make sense would be if she was taking up the resources to help you stop the reapers, that would fit her as I always saw her as pragmatic. Anything more than a short-term gig would be silly imo. The problem is Bioware puts in a lot of contradictory information in this regard. (Make up your mind dammit Bioware)

Last Edit: Jul 7, 2017 23:38:53 GMT by Guts

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Why does everyone like Lair of the Shadow Broker? Jul 8, 2017 10:55:20 GMT opuspace likes this

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Post by obbie1984 on Jul 8, 2017 10:55:20 GMT

Well thanks for all that mikefest. But I don't think I have ever had Liara not hold my plaque at the end of the game. But I am doing a run right now in ME2. When I go into ME3, I will keep this in mind. I will actually completely ignore Liara. It is strange because I have done runs where I talk to Kaidan quite a bit if Miranda is my romance and he has never held my plaque ever. But I will give this a try.

As for the rest, I don't ever have to worry about that because I never take Liara at all. I only take her when the game forces me to like on Mars and Eden Prime. I am also a relatively new player to the series. I started well after the EC came out so once again I don't have to worry about Liara showing up. But even then it still shows how much favoritism Bioware showed this character. Its annoying. I think everyone can die in ME. Even Garrus can at least die in ME2. Why not Liara? Only with low EMS she can be killed. That's lame.

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Why does everyone like Lair of the Shadow Broker? Jul 8, 2017 12:06:17 GMT ioannisdenton likes this

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Post by outlaw1109 on Jul 8, 2017 12:06:17 GMT

Jul 6, 2017 17:44:31 GMT ioannisdenton said:

'cause of this

It get me. E V E R Y T I M E

Same.

Started listening to it; can't stop.

Damn you.

Jun 27, 2017 1:29:31 GMT -5 aoibhealfae said:

Player's agency is the key here. Every other character except her are optional, with or without romance state. There's multitude of path and interactions that you take that was carried through. But Liara is ALWAYS written the same in all four games. The ONLY difference for her is romance state but even this was heavily implied by Bioware that she is the default preferential romance.

A lot of her characterization required a LOT of acceptance over her various behaviors and inconsistencies, instead of addressing each of them appropriately, they just pile on everything making her a multitasking genius archeologist superbiotic crime lord asari etc. I play Shepard as a woman who have no time to care about her because the galaxy need saving and there are more worrying things to do than giving attention to a childish alien and her excessive overly-attached crush.

When she display pathological behaviors; cyber stalking, collecting trophies from your corpse, emotional bribery; as a player, we should have the option to say no to her rather than encourage her further. But Bioware are content with adding on every plot devices they could think off for that behaviors because she is the magical stagnant character that the fandom accept without questions. This preferential treatment for her alienate EVERY other characters in the game as if their presence was meaningless compared to Liara fans.

And not every one of us like her and yet we're all being constantly reminded of this every single time we play the games. Through animations, through the stories. If you put off Therum until at the end of the game, EVERYONE telling you into to get her even when she's fairly useless without the Cipher and Virmire's beacon in combination. There's really no need for her to mind meld more than once. She is the default character in most of the DLCs; Lair of the Shadow Broker, From Ashes, Citadel DLC (especially if you don't romance other ME3's squadmate). You go to Andromeda and you can't even escape her finding some ways to leave a mark on Ryder's family. Things like these doesn't make her more endearing, we're sick of Liara T'Soni.

I think this is the biggest issue. She is and certainly FEELS like the intended romance option. Look at how deep things get at the end of the series when you're on the battlefield and she has you "Embrace Eternity". There was a lot of effort put into that final goodbye that you won't see in any other LI.

I get how some people can feel like it's invasive; I didn't. She was the first character I ever romanced in the trilogy and I don't regret it.
Now Ashley, on the other hand, that's a LI that was given a freaking terrible romance. Like, they just completely side tracked her...WTF happened to "Oh Captain; my Captain?" IDGAF if you don't like Cerberus. Get in the Normandy.

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Why does everyone like Lair of the Shadow Broker? Jul 9, 2017 9:23:06 GMT

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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2017 9:23:06 GMT

It's mainly the ambience for me. I really enjoy Illium and wish most hubs we could visit in ME2 offered more urban exploration. After leaving Illium I started to lose interest in the dlc.

Here's a courtesy Illium ambient vid:

Last Edit: Jul 9, 2017 9:25:57 GMT by Deleted

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Why does everyone like Lair of the Shadow Broker? Jul 10, 2017 5:40:18 GMT opuspace likes this

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Post by Guts on Jul 10, 2017 5:40:18 GMT

Jul 9, 2017 9:23:06 GMT @batariandeathmetal said:

It's mainly the ambience for me. I really enjoy Illium and wish most hubs we could visit in ME2 offered more urban exploration. After leaving Illium I started to lose interest in the dlc.

Here's a courtesy Illium ambient vid:

I thought Illium was a pretty cool hub world as well. I think the presidium should have been more than just the councilor room. I just think that what brought down LoTSB a lot was that it focuses so heavily on Liara's character development. Which was just feels like it was written by someone who loved Liara so much to a point where they felt EVERYONE should love her, consistency and relatability be damned. But in terms of gameplay, levels, and ambiance. Those were pretty good. (Kinda beating a dead horse with the character development)

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Why does everyone like Lair of the Shadow Broker? Jul 10, 2017 5:59:47 GMT themikefest, Arkhne, and 1 more like this

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Post by Guts on Jul 10, 2017 5:59:47 GMT

Jun 27, 2017 12:49:50 GMT themikefest said:

Jun 26, 2017 19:18:21 GMT Guts said:

Yikes. Regardless I have to agree, I feel that the Liara in the later games was REALLY shoved down players throats. In ME1 I feel it wasn't THAT bad, unlike Ashley (Feel free to disagree with me), in the later games though, they went overboard. Those renegade options should've been added to the game, maybe you kill the shadow broker afterwards and because of those interrupts, Liara DOESN'T become the Shadow Broker. Like I said in an eariler post, I preferred Peebee over Liara simply because I felt Peebee had better character development. Not everyone does like Peebs though.

In ME1, she is required, but can be rescued at the last possible moment.

In ME2, she can be avoided completed.

In ME3, she is seen after the first two dreams and is required for Thessia. There's no reason for her to show up after the first two dreams.

Regards to the stowaway. I would have made her an option to recruit or not.

That would have been a pretty cool option in Andromeda. (I would have immediately kicked out Liam for being possibly the biggest dumbass on the team)

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Why does everyone like Lair of the Shadow Broker? Jul 24, 2017 15:29:51 GMT Guts likes this

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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 24, 2017 15:29:51 GMT

Jun 23, 2017 11:13:07 GMT aoibhealfae said:

I think what I find jarring about all ME2 DLC was there's absolutely no voice for squadmates. They're ALL silent. Even in Arrival, Joker was voiced by a different actor.

LOTSB is popular because it appeal to Liara's fans.. and there's squadmate respec panel in it

yeah it was made I think more for people who liked Liara as a lot of people did I do as well tbh. Because outside of that we don't see much of her in ME2. But generally I just find the level a lot of fun with a couple of interesting boss fights and a pretty good fun car chase as well which I enjoyed. In general this is my opinion but I find it my favourite DLC of the trilogy.

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Why does everyone like Lair of the Shadow Broker? Sept 29, 2017 18:02:11 GMT opuspace likes this

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Post by boxofscreaming on Sept 29, 2017 18:02:11 GMT

I think it's pretty good, certainly cinematic, but I found the ending a bit anticlimactic. So we get inside the Broker's ship, kill half a dozen bad guys, talk to Feron then walk down a corridor and find the man himself just sitting alone in his office? I expected it would be a little harder to take down the most mysterious, reclusive figure in the galaxy.

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Why does everyone like Lair of the Shadow Broker? Sept 29, 2017 18:03:58 GMT

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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Sept 29, 2017 18:03:58 GMT

Well its certainly better than almost any other mission in the main corridor get new boring shipmates fetch course -game for me.
And Liara, steak, Liara.

DLC's are the best in ME2 ^

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Why does everyone like Lair of the Shadow Broker? Oct 24, 2017 15:55:58 GMT Guts and Railrafale like this

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Post by CrutchCricket on Oct 24, 2017 15:55:58 GMT

Jul 6, 2017 13:54:47 GMT Railrafale said:

Because you can take down Vasir and add another defeated specter to your personal record.

Too bad you can't pull a GoW 3 where you keep shooting her useless piece of shit corpse with lead until the screen turns red, and the QT is actually infinite until you're satisfied it's enough (or really, your fingers get tired because it's never enough).

I have no beef with Liara other than the not at all logical character development that's been mentioned to death already. I too preferred her ME1 incarnation and while I have no problem with her toughening up, one does not simply become the head of an organization that's the bastard child of Cobra and the Corleones overnight. But if there's one thing I hate this DLC for it's that fucking cunt Vasir.

Good things in the DLC include the atmosphere, the SB ship (which was then criminally wasted), the Yahg and the music.

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Why does everyone like Lair of the Shadow Broker? Oct 27, 2017 5:42:13 GMT

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Post by The Biotic Trebuchet on Oct 27, 2017 5:42:13 GMT

Mostly, because i can place another specter head in above the fireplace.

Now, i just need a salami specter head and the collection will be complete.

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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy
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Why does everyone like Lair of the Shadow Broker? Oct 27, 2017 19:17:46 GMT

Quote

Post by Railrafale on Oct 27, 2017 19:17:46 GMT

Oct 24, 2017 15:55:58 GMT CrutchCricket said:

Jul 6, 2017 13:54:47 GMT Railrafale said:

Because you can take down Vasir and add another defeated specter to your personal record.

Too bad you can't pull a GoW 3 where you keep shooting her useless piece of shit corpse with lead until the screen turns red, and the QT is actually infinite until you're satisfied it's enough (or really, your fingers get tired because it's never enough).

I have no beef with Liara other than the not at all logical character development that's been mentioned to death already. I too preferred her ME1 incarnation and while I have no problem with her toughening up, one does not simply become the head of an organization that's the bastard child of Cobra and the Corleones overnight. But if there's one thing I hate this DLC for it's that fucking cunt Vasir.

Good things in the DLC include the atmosphere, the SB ship (which was then criminally wasted) the Yahg and the music.

I was expecting a paragon/renegade interrupt during her last speech because i hate betrayals soooo much.

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