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Post by theflyingzamboni on Jul 1, 2017 20:59:19 GMT
This has been bugging me through this entire thread, so:
Anonymous sources are a completely legitimate part of journalism. Sure, it doesn't sound as good as being able to name names, but in businesses or governments or wherever, the possibility of retaliation against leakers is very real. Without the ability to remain anonymous, few people would be willing to break contractual agreements or deal in classified government info. Investigative journalism basically could not exist without this.
This isn't just some sort of 'tabloid journalism' thing. Every investigative journalist worth their salt has anonymous sources, and quotes them in articles. So while quoting anonymous inside sources can be used as a cover for false information, it is not itself evidence that the information is false.
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Post by easucks on Jul 1, 2017 21:00:26 GMT
"Several sources have confirmed to Kotaku that the rumours were in fact true." There are no original facts offered in this article. It's a reiteration of what was already posted to Kotaku. That's fine , but the fact remains ea has no care for its customers and never did ... They release trash, force people to pay top dollar, then people complain, so instead of giving customers their money's worth, they shit on them by Charing top dollar again for the same game, slightly improved.
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Post by decafhigh on Jul 1, 2017 21:01:19 GMT
So is there any word that we actually are going to get SP DLC? Or just "we can't confirm that we deny anything" PR bull from EA/BW? Nothing yet but there is a nwe book Mass Effect Annihilation coming apparently so maybe that points to the possibility we are. I can't say for certain though but if there is a new book in September then I would say it's certainly looking like we might get some. Meh, I don't think the existence of the novel points to anything one way or the other. That would have been in the works long before the game even released. At this point I don't think I'll be surprised whichever way it turns out for DLC.
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Post by Monica21 on Jul 1, 2017 21:09:16 GMT
This has been bugging me through this entire thread, so: Anonymous sources are a completely legitimate part of journalism. Sure, it doesn't sound as good as being able to name names, but in businesses or governments or wherever, the possibility of retaliation against leakers is very real. Without the ability to remain anonymous, few people would be willing to break contractual agreements or deal in classified government info. Investigative journalism basically could not exist without this. This isn't just some sort of 'tabloid journalism' thing. Every investigative journalist worth their salt has anonymous sources, and quotes them in articles. So while quoting anonymous inside sources can be used as a cover for false information, it is not itself evidence that the information is false. I'm not concerned with the anonymity of the sources. I'd expect them to be given that they presumably signed NDA's. What I am looking at is how those anonymous sources are described. In his first article about the Montreal studio being scaled down, he describes them as "sources close to the company." His article about the development of Andromeda refers to "nearly a dozen people who worked on Mass Effect: Andromeda." His third story describes sources as "sources familiar with the company’s plans." I'm not questioning whether he should use anonymous sources. What I'm saying is that none of his sources are currently still working on Andromeda.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 1, 2017 21:09:47 GMT
Nothing yet but there is a nwe book Mass Effect Annihilation coming apparently so maybe that points to the possibility we are. I can't say for certain though but if there is a new book in September then I would say it's certainly looking like we might get some. Meh, I don't think the existence of the novel points to anything one way or the other. That would have been in the works long before the game even released. At this point I don't think I'll be surprised whichever way it turns out for DLC. yeah maybe but if they were planning to ditch the game I suspec this novel would have been cancelled by now I think. Obviously wewon't know untli closer to the time but right now given the way things are with MEA I'll take any hope I can get.
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Post by brandoftime on Jul 1, 2017 21:10:33 GMT
In thinking about journalism, and how a story should come out - The news about the forthcoming DA4 is on several different sites, with primary sources, from BW themselves, like here for example: www.pcgamer.com/biowares-dragon-age-team-is-currently-hiring-a-lot-of-people-says-creative-director/This is normal journalism. So, if Kotaku has just one BW developer to actually name in a interview, plus if the other outlets like Forbes, IGN, Gamespot etc can actually quote (wow) their own sources and not just be lazy with the Kotaku article over and over. . . I'd be willing to say that yes, Jason broke it open first and he's right. But the problem is, he's the only one and not backed up by anything except his own word, which I just don't trust. The petty trolling just confirms it, really.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jul 1, 2017 21:19:13 GMT
This has been bugging me through this entire thread, so: Anonymous sources are a completely legitimate part of journalism. Sure, it doesn't sound as good as being able to name names, but in businesses or governments or wherever, the possibility of retaliation against leakers is very real. Without the ability to remain anonymous, few people would be willing to break contractual agreements or deal in classified government info. Investigative journalism basically could not exist without this. This isn't just some sort of 'tabloid journalism' thing. Every investigative journalist worth their salt has anonymous sources, and quotes them in articles. So while quoting anonymous inside sources can be used as a cover for false information, it is not itself evidence that the information is false. It does not evidence the story is not false. That's the problem. Since no sources are named, nothing can be fact checked or cross-examined. Nobody knows who these people are, what their jobs are in the company. None of the anonymous sources are backed up with any named verifiable sources. This leaves the story wide open for skepticism. The journalist has also been wrong before. These problems can't be ignored.
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Post by cypherj on Jul 1, 2017 21:25:26 GMT
This has been bugging me through this entire thread, so: Anonymous sources are a completely legitimate part of journalism. Sure, it doesn't sound as good as being able to name names, but in businesses or governments or wherever, the possibility of retaliation against leakers is very real. Without the ability to remain anonymous, few people would be willing to break contractual agreements or deal in classified government info. Investigative journalism basically could not exist without this. This isn't just some sort of 'tabloid journalism' thing. Every investigative journalist worth their salt has anonymous sources, and quotes them in articles. So while quoting anonymous inside sources can be used as a cover for false information, it is not itself evidence that the information is false. I don't get it either, people are acting this isn't done every day in most new stories. Unless it's an approved interview by the company, the sources are going to anonymous, because people don't want to lose their jobs, and or be sued. It's nothing new, and hardly anything to judge the veracity of a story off of.
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Post by Sondergaard on Jul 1, 2017 21:54:38 GMT
Anonymous sources are also used by companies and governments to get information out that they don't want to deal with openly or to test the waters. Not saying that's the case regarding the DLC but it's a possibility.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2017 21:54:40 GMT
"Several sources have confirmed to Kotaku that the rumours were in fact true." There are no original facts offered in this article. It's a reiteration of what was already posted to Kotaku. That's fine , but the fact remains ea has no care for its customers and never did ... They release trash, force people to pay top dollar, then people complain, so instead of giving customers their money's worth, they shit on them by Charing top dollar again for the same game, slightly improved. Since they don't "force" people to buy the game... how do they "force people" to pay top dollar for it. They set a price and it's your option whether you want to buy it or not. Their products also go on sale. I bought ME:A on sale at about 50% off. It was a new disc in the box from a reputable supplier in a sanctioned sale by EA. I consider the game to be well worth the money I paid for it. I was not charged anything for any of the patches nor do I expect to be charged for any future patches. What you're alleging is just blatantly false.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2017 21:55:01 GMT
Also since I'm done here, just want to make it clear that while we all have our differences, argue, call each other names, etc... you're one big, dysfunctional family to me and I like everyone here!
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Post by Croatsky on Jul 1, 2017 21:56:26 GMT
Also since I'm done here, just want to make it clear that while we all have our differences, argue, call each other names, etc... you're one big, dysfunctional family to me and I like everyone here! I demand a refund.
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Post by majesticjazz on Jul 1, 2017 22:03:55 GMT
I must admit, this Jason fella makes one good villain for you guys. I wonder how things will be when/if other known outlets begin to back up with their own reporting what Jason previously alluded to. I already stated many times in this thread I could care less if he's right or not. It's not about that. You have this DLC obsession and urge to spit and shit on any thread that says good things about MEA, and claim innocently that you are just sharing you're opinion. You are troll and a sad one at that. 'Nuff said. Actually prior to launch I was a really big MEA fan and even hung out in the non-spoiler thread talking up with many other people who wanted to follow MEA without fear of being spoiled by the pre-launch marketing. However, after I got my hands on the game, my opinions/hype of the game really went downhill. Personally, I do not know if it is me or Bioware but beginning with DAI, I just cannot get into their games anymore.....I guess it is the result of the "Witcher 3 effect". Either way, I would rather Bioware just focus their attention into new ventures instead of milking a franchise that probably peaked at ME2 and starting with ME3, began to decline. No single player DLC for MEA is good news to me because it signals that they are indeed moving on from the brand to focus on other projects such as Anthem which I am closely watching. I admit, I have done my fair share of "troll" replies because I think its funny get the reactions from those who religiously believe that MEA will have multiple DLCs and a MEA2. But most of the time, I AM just posting my opinions. However, the problem is that this place is a safe haven for optimistic outlook on the game so by default, any "negative" post or threads about MEA are met with any mobs coming out with their pitchforks. Case in point, I created this thread which was intended to be a respectful way at detailing why I do not like MEA. It wasn't a troll thread, but it wasn't an optimistic one either. Some people who disagreed with me came in and offered their opinions without attacking mine, but a majority of the people just "spit and shit" on my thread (as you would say) without offering any substantial debate or perspective. So I find it funny how when people act like its such a crime when someone comes into a "optimistic" thread and offers opposing perspectives but whenever those same people go into a "pessimistic" discussion about MEA and offer opposing perspectives, they are just defending the game against "the internet trolls who makes it their agenda to tarnish and take down the Mass Effect brand".If I go into a thread that is talking about how we will get DLC and post my opinions as why we won't, you say that is trolling and shitting and spitting. But if someone else goes into a thread about how we will not get DLC and they post their opinions on how we will, they are doing this place justice and standing up for MEA. You can't have it both ways. And unless I over-looked something, there is nothing here saying that the discussion of MEA has to be positive.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2017 22:06:30 GMT
I already stated many times in this thread I could care less if he's right or not. It's not about that. You have this DLC obsession and urge to spit and shit on any thread that says good things about MEA, and claim innocently that you are just sharing you're opinion. You are troll and a sad one at that. 'Nuff said. Actually prior to launch I was a really big MEA fan and even hung out in the non-spoiler thread talking up with many other people who wanted to follow MEA without fear of being spoiled by the pre-launch marketing. However, after I got my hands on the game, my opinions/hype of the game really went downhill. Personally, I do not know if it is me or Bioware but beginning with DAI, I just cannot get into their games anymore.....I guess it is the result of the "Witcher 3 effect". Either way, I would rather Bioware just focus their attention into new ventures instead of milking a franchise that probably peaked at ME2 and starting with ME3, began to decline. No single player DLC for MEA is good news to me because it signals that they are indeed moving on from the brand to focus on other projects such as Anthem which I am closely watching. I admit, I have done my fair share of "troll" replies because I think its funny get the reactions from those who religiously believe that MEA will have multiple DLCs and a MEA2. But most of the time, I AM just posting my opinions. However, the problem is that this place is a safe haven for optimistic outlook on the game so by default, any "negative" post or threads about MEA are met with any mobs coming out with their pitchforks. Case in point, I created this thread which was intended to be a respectful way at detailing why I do not like MEA. It wasn't a troll thread, but it wasn't an optimistic one either. Some people who disagreed with me came in and offered their opinions without attacking mine, but a majority of the people just "spit and shit" on my thread (as you would say) without offering any substantial debate or perspective. So I find it funny how when people act like its such a crime when someone comes into a "optimistic" thread and offers opposing perspectives but whenever those same people go into a "pessimistic" discussion about MEA and offer opposing perspectives, they are just defending the game against "the internet trolls who makes it their agenda to tarnish and take down the Mass Effect brand".You can't have it both ways. And unless I over-looked something, there is nothing here saying that the discussion of MEA has to be positive. I think people would like to talk about the game and not debate so much. Just enjoy it. Many did. If I was a mod here I'd make a section for those who hated it to complain or rant, and one for those who want to enjoy it and rave about it in a good way, and a 3rd for the serious debaters to have at it. Everyone should have a place to express themselves and many feel unable to do either sometimes.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 1, 2017 22:08:30 GMT
Actually prior to launch I was a really big MEA fan and even hung out in the non-spoiler thread talking up with many other people who wanted to follow MEA without fear of being spoiled by the pre-launch marketing. However, after I got my hands on the game, my opinions/hype of the game really went downhill. Personally, I do not know if it is me or Bioware but beginning with DAI, I just cannot get into their games anymore.....I guess it is the result of the "Witcher 3 effect". Either way, I would rather Bioware just focus their attention into new ventures instead of milking a franchise that probably peaked at ME2 and starting with ME3, began to decline. No single player DLC for MEA is good news to me because it signals that they are indeed moving on from the brand to focus on other projects such as Anthem which I am closely watching. I admit, I have done my fair share of "troll" replies because I think its funny get the reactions from those who religiously believe that MEA will have multiple DLCs and a MEA2. But most of the time, I AM just posting my opinions. However, the problem is that this place is a safe haven for optimistic outlook on the game so by default, any "negative" post or threads about MEA are met with any mobs coming out with their pitchforks. Case in point, I created this thread which was intended to be a respectful way at detailing why I do not like MEA. It wasn't a troll thread, but it wasn't an optimistic one either. Some people who disagreed with me came in and offered their opinions without attacking mine, but a majority of the people just "spit and shit" on my thread (as you would say) without offering any substantial debate or perspective. So I find it funny how when people act like its such a crime when someone comes into a "optimistic" thread and offers opposing perspectives but whenever those same people go into a "pessimistic" discussion about MEA and offer opposing perspectives, they are just defending the game against "the internet trolls who makes it their agenda to tarnish and take down the Mass Effect brand".You can't have it both ways. And unless I over-looked something, there is nothing here saying that the discussion of MEA has to be positive. I think people would like to talk about the game and not debate so much. Just enjoy it. Many did. If I was a mod here I'd make a section for those who hated it to complain or rant, and one for those who want to enjoy it and rave about it in a good way, and a 3rd for the serious debaters to have at it. Everyone should have a place to express themselves and many feel unable to do either sometimes. Well they do have their own thread...
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Post by fchopin on Jul 1, 2017 22:17:08 GMT
Explain why MEA, was not even able to match the sales numbers of DAI? I mean, isn't the ME brand more popular than the DA brand? No. Dragon Age franchise was always a more popular brand. DA:O sold better then ME1. DA2 sold better then ME2. DA:I sold better then ME3. There is no way DA2 sold more than ME2. Do not know where you got this info but it is obviously not true.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2017 22:18:17 GMT
I think people would like to talk about the game and not debate so much. Just enjoy it. Many did. If I was a mod here I'd make a section for those who hated it to complain or rant, and one for those who want to enjoy it and rave about it in a good way, and a 3rd for the serious debaters to have at it. Everyone should have a place to express themselves and many feel unable to do either sometimes. Well they do have their own thread... Hardly ever used. Everyone just keeps making new threads of the same things. When I used to mod I was a bit strict, and I would make sure everyone felt welcome, and no one could troll the threads that were just for good/bad stuff, and to use the debate thread for that. That's just me lol
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Post by sil on Jul 1, 2017 22:20:45 GMT
Yeah, I do get a bit sick of normal threads becoming a battleground for sjw issues and other stuff. Sometimes you just want to talk about the lore, or discuss something fun.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 1, 2017 22:22:13 GMT
Well they do have their own thread... Hardly ever used. Everyone just keeps making new threads of the same things. When I used to mod I was a bit strict, and I would make sure everyone felt welcome, and no one could troll the threads that were just for good/bad stuff, and to use the debate thread for that. That's just me lol Hey I want intelligent conversation and good debate as much as the next guy though, but there is a mile and a half of difference between that and the trolling that some people engage in. There is a lot of legitimate criticism of MEA out there and there has actually been some brilliant anyalisis provided by a few people, griffonclaw for intance, despite his occasional anger, has actually provided a lot of insight into what went wrong with ME, and there are a few others out there. But it just seems like that for a few, and believe it or not this just seems to be a very few number of posters on this board (like five) whom seem to carry around like BioWare and MEA personally hurt them, physically. And then there are others who seem to not be a fan of BioWare or its new direction in the first place yet insist on posting here anyways. TLDR: you really have to be especially bad to get classed as a 'troll' in my book.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2017 22:26:42 GMT
Hardly ever used. Everyone just keeps making new threads of the same things. When I used to mod I was a bit strict, and I would make sure everyone felt welcome, and no one could troll the threads that were just for good/bad stuff, and to use the debate thread for that. That's just me lol Hey I want intelligent conversation and good debate as much as the next guy though, but there is a mile and a half of difference between that and the trolling that some people engage in. There is a lot of legitimate criticism of MEA out there and there has actually been some brilliant anyalisis provided by a few people, griffonclaw for intance, despite his occasional anger, has actually provided a lot of insight into what went wrong with ME, and there are a few others out there. But it just seems like that for a few, and believe it or not this just seems to be a very few number of posters on this board (like five) whom seem to carry around like BioWare and MEA personally hurt them, physically. And then there are others who seem to not be a fan of BioWare or its new direction in the first place yet insist on posting here anyways. TLDR: you really have to be especially bad to get classed as a 'troll' in my book. Yeah I am not too sure how a game can hurt you like that lol would be just kind of interesting to see everyone's stuff (neg/pos) divided up, so people could sort through them and see how others viewed things without silly memes, or things becoming OT... etc... I remember mentioning sometime ago that people who had legit reasons to dislike MEA were always thrown in with the trolls even though they gave valid points even I agreed with sometimes.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 1, 2017 22:30:12 GMT
Hey I want intelligent conversation and good debate as much as the next guy though, but there is a mile and a half of difference between that and the trolling that some people engage in. There is a lot of legitimate criticism of MEA out there and there has actually been some brilliant anyalisis provided by a few people, griffonclaw for intance, despite his occasional anger, has actually provided a lot of insight into what went wrong with ME, and there are a few others out there. But it just seems like that for a few, and believe it or not this just seems to be a very few number of posters on this board (like five) whom seem to carry around like BioWare and MEA personally hurt them, physically. And then there are others who seem to not be a fan of BioWare or its new direction in the first place yet insist on posting here anyways. TLDR: you really have to be especially bad to get classed as a 'troll' in my book. Yeah I am not too sure how a game can hurt you like that lol would be just kind of interesting to see everyone's stuff (neg/pos) divided up, so people could sort through them and see how others viewed things without silly memes, or things becoming OT... etc... I remember mentioning sometime ago that people who had legit reasons to dislike MEA were always thrown in with the trolls even though they gave valid points even I agreed with sometimes. I've been there. The original ending to ME 3 hurt. like hell. So much that I even joined in on some of the protests and wrote a 54 chapter fan fic fixing the thing in my mind. (still the best thing I've ever written though so there is that), but then at the end of the day looking back realized my whole reaction to the thing was a little silly.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2017 22:40:02 GMT
Actually prior to launch I was a really big MEA fan and even hung out in the non-spoiler thread talking up with many other people who wanted to follow MEA without fear of being spoiled by the pre-launch marketing. However, after I got my hands on the game, my opinions/hype of the game really went downhill. Personally, I do not know if it is me or Bioware but beginning with DAI, I just cannot get into their games anymore.....I guess it is the result of the "Witcher 3 effect". Either way, I would rather Bioware just focus their attention into new ventures instead of milking a franchise that probably peaked at ME2 and starting with ME3, began to decline. No single player DLC for MEA is good news to me because it signals that they are indeed moving on from the brand to focus on other projects such as Anthem which I am closely watching. I admit, I have done my fair share of "troll" replies because I think its funny get the reactions from those who religiously believe that MEA will have multiple DLCs and a MEA2. But most of the time, I AM just posting my opinions. However, the problem is that this place is a safe haven for optimistic outlook on the game so by default, any "negative" post or threads about MEA are met with any mobs coming out with their pitchforks. Case in point, I created this thread which was intended to be a respectful way at detailing why I do not like MEA. It wasn't a troll thread, but it wasn't an optimistic one either. Some people who disagreed with me came in and offered their opinions without attacking mine, but a majority of the people just "spit and shit" on my thread (as you would say) without offering any substantial debate or perspective. So I find it funny how when people act like its such a crime when someone comes into a "optimistic" thread and offers opposing perspectives but whenever those same people go into a "pessimistic" discussion about MEA and offer opposing perspectives, they are just defending the game against "the internet trolls who makes it their agenda to tarnish and take down the Mass Effect brand".You can't have it both ways. And unless I over-looked something, there is nothing here saying that the discussion of MEA has to be positive. I think people would like to talk about the game and not debate so much. Just enjoy it. Many did. If I was a mod here I'd make a section for those who hated it to complain or rant, and one for those who want to enjoy it and rave about it in a good way, and a 3rd for the serious debaters to have at it. Everyone should have a place to express themselves and many feel unable to do either sometimes. Actually, they did have two threads... one for those who liked the game and one for those who didn't... now probably buried way down in the archives. Both had problems with people coming on to them to "debate" the opposing position from what the thread was supposed to be all about... so maybe they both wound up eventually getting locked... don't know. There is still the reviews based on completed games thread that seems to be following a reasonably clean trend of people just posting their reviews (not sure... maybe the mods are deleting anything else that gets posted there).
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bigbad
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by bigbad on Jul 1, 2017 22:42:32 GMT
Yeah I am not too sure how a game can hurt you like that lol would be just kind of interesting to see everyone's stuff (neg/pos) divided up, so people could sort through them and see how others viewed things without silly memes, or things becoming OT... etc... I remember mentioning sometime ago that people who had legit reasons to dislike MEA were always thrown in with the trolls even though they gave valid points even I agreed with sometimes. I've been there. The original ending to ME 3 hurt. like hell. So much that I even joined in on some of the protests and wrote a 54 chapter fan fic fixing the thing in my mind. (still the best thing I've ever written though so there is that), but then at the end of the day looking back realized my whole reaction to the thing was a little silly. Can we get a cliff notes version of your ending? I'm a sucker for alternative ME3 ending ideas.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
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Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jul 1, 2017 22:44:49 GMT
This has been bugging me through this entire thread, so: Anonymous sources are a completely legitimate part of journalism. Sure, it doesn't sound as good as being able to name names, but in businesses or governments or wherever, the possibility of retaliation against leakers is very real. Without the ability to remain anonymous, few people would be willing to break contractual agreements or deal in classified government info. Investigative journalism basically could not exist without this. This isn't just some sort of 'tabloid journalism' thing. Every investigative journalist worth their salt has anonymous sources, and quotes them in articles. So while quoting anonymous inside sources can be used as a cover for false information, it is not itself evidence that the information is false. I'm not concerned with the anonymity of the sources. I'd expect them to be given that they presumably signed NDA's. What I am looking at is how those anonymous sources are described. In his first article about the Montreal studio being scaled down, he describes them as "sources close to the company." His article about the development of Andromeda refers to "nearly a dozen people who worked on Mass Effect: Andromeda." His third story describes sources as "sources familiar with the company’s plans." I'm not questioning whether he should use anonymous sources. What I'm saying is that none of his sources are currently still working on Andromeda.... and if they don't, what level were they? What's their agenda for speaking out? When and where did they stop working? Either way, I'm buying it. Because... like I said before, you can speculate and still get 90% right. It's not journalism, but it sure is entertainment. Also, the book is about other developers as well. I'm not defending the prick that screenshotted us. I'm just saying that without credible sources, it's hard not to have a level of skepticism because it could all be speculation. That's my opinion. Other than that, I'm wanting to read it. If he has names, it will validate a lot of the criticisms I had about Andromeda and Inquisition. If not, well... like I said, 90% right is better than the 0.05 % we get from EA and BioWare. Just saying.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2017 22:45:01 GMT
I think people would like to talk about the game and not debate so much. Just enjoy it. Many did. If I was a mod here I'd make a section for those who hated it to complain or rant, and one for those who want to enjoy it and rave about it in a good way, and a 3rd for the serious debaters to have at it. Everyone should have a place to express themselves and many feel unable to do either sometimes. Actually, they did have two threads... one for those who liked the game and one for those who didn't... now probably buried way down in the archives. Both had problems with people coming on to them to "debate" the opposing position from what the thread was supposed to be all about... so maybe they both wound up eventually getting locked... don't know. There is still the reviews based on completed games thread that seems to be following a reasonably clean trend of people just posting their reviews (not sure... maybe the mods are deleting anything else that gets posted there). Yeah I haven't seen those threads in ages. I just remember that nice thread colfoley made, and then it started to get some unpleasant replies. Just irks me sometimes lol
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