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Post by ddrguy300 on Jul 7, 2017 23:19:19 GMT
So I sat on this a bit. Here is one of the larger consequences of the platinum addition.
Platinum in ME3 was a proportional step up from gold. This platinum was not a proportional step. It is more reflective of a Diamond difficulty than Platinum.
The changes to character cards that now let them have up to a 40% boost, while are meant to make Platinum more manageable, Platinum can still be a veritable shit show.
The larger issue with this change is that Gold is now significantly easier because of these boosts. While that by itself is not a problem, the issue is the divide that is created from a Gold that is slightly simpler to do between a Platinum that is too hard.
Gold = too easy, Platinum = a grind for those who really want the challenge of all challenges. As you can see, a basic "hard/harder" difficulty is missing. Farming has now become either more boring playing gold or not proportional to the point that there is a large apprehension to even attempting a platinum game.
A lesson for the Devs: Do you know what a bell curve is? It's a chart that shows how distribution works for, well, anything. And 95% of the group in question falls somewhere in the "acceptable" middle. The other 5% on either ends of the curve are either falling above or bellow that average to the extent that they are not considered a part of the group for statistical purposes.
Let's say, hypothetically, the ideal bell curve of the general state of the game is what you should be shooting for. But with this change that creates this divide between gold and platinum, the result of overly hard platinum and easier gold misses that ideal curve entirely.
I might have butchered that attempt at simple language in order to avoid the term "standard deviation," but for those that DO understand what that is, these changes force the game state and player base to those edges that fall outside of the standard deviation, one or two depending on how forgiving you are feeling toward the changes.
Either way, the point is that they obviously missed the target. To what degree is up for debate.
Changing hack to something less stupid would help this comparison a lot if the Devs are looking for a fix easier than a complicated debate. I realize that thinking is hard for them.
TL:DR: The Devs nee to read Goldilocks and see that you're missing the third bowl of porridge.
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Post by RonnieBlastoff on Jul 7, 2017 23:29:08 GMT
dude.... stop trying to get them to nerf platinum, some of us enjoy it and breeze through it. If you find platinum to difficult, you are not utilizing your best options. jeez, lets just have them take platinum away so we just can play gold to max out our now infinitely bloated manifest.... like really man. Please... Oh, and another thing... if you want to play ME3, play ME3.... Or even better, make a video of your platinum game, and I personally can tell you every single thing you fuck up on during your game, or your squad, from your perspective fucks up so you can hopefully learn from your mistakes and adapt....
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Post by akots on Jul 7, 2017 23:37:03 GMT
I blame Billy, DAIMP had similar power creep and difficulty spike. But IMO, platinum is not that difficult, it is less difficult than ME3MP, just messy, and lots of stunlock by everything, like geth platinum wave 2. Otherwise, it is actually playable outside of certain crooked hacks. And yes, Billy does not like when players have a panic button aka cobra for some reason, IDK what could it be, I'm not a shrink. This complicates things and makes game a bit tedious sometimes on some occasions.
So, it would have been fine with proper missile damage, people need that panic button, I certainly miss it. Just for those cases of shitshow you mentioned.
And good thing, we don't have some distinguished DAIMP features like revive limit of 3 throughout the whole game or enemies getting stronger every time a team mate dies. Would probably make Ronnie happy, but please no.
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Post by lennybusker on Jul 7, 2017 23:46:44 GMT
Platinum isn't hard, it's annoying and frustrating. If they hadn't fucked up Cobras, if they hadn't changed Hack and Assassination, it wouldn't be that bad. Though multiple crowds of stunlock enemies, that shit can go. Whoever thought fighting 4 Beserkers at once is a good game mechanic...I hope they get soap in their peehole.
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Post by ddrguy300 on Jul 7, 2017 23:50:04 GMT
dude.... stop trying to get them to nerf platinum, some of us enjoy it and breeze through it. If you find platinum to difficult, you are not utilizing your best options. jeez, lets just have them take platinum away so we just can play gold to max out our now infinitely bloated manifest.... like really man. Please... Oh, and another thing... if you want to play ME3, play ME3.... Or even better, make a video of your platinum game, and I personally can tell you every single thing you fuck up on during your game, or your squad, from your perspective fucks up so you can hopefully learn from your mistakes and adapt....
I like how you completely circumvented the point I was trying to make. You can either agree with it or disagree. To throw your own non relevant comment back at you, I'm suggesting that the learning curve for Platinum is too high. If you're in the group of those that wanted to see platinum and are able to take what platinum requires to not get slaughtered, but that group you're in is the 90th percentile of those who wanted platinum, then something was missed. There's a big difference in that group being in the 50th percentile compared to the 90th percentile. Honestly, if you want Platinum to stay the way it is, fine. But recognize what it is. It's not platinum, it's closer to diamond. In a perfect world, platinum would get nerfed (just fix the damn boss units), Hack would get fixed, weak points would be restored, devices would get their old time back, and they'd introduce a difficulty up from platinum that does things like the present change Hack, negate boss weak points, throw in the boss units, and fiddle with objectives like less time for devices, bosses, and the penalties for upload interrupts. But whatever, there's no point in even trying to make these arguments I guess, the Devs have already stated that theory is at the bottom of their list. They're just worried about bugs.
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Post by zeph on Jul 7, 2017 23:55:27 GMT
Platinum is more shoot, move, and communicate(if there's any). You can't set up a tent and pick off enemies any more. You gotta stay mobile to survive and so doe the squad mates. I normally play human sentinel b/c of the barricade ability of dropping cover at any time and priming enemies that surround me. With so many boss enemies plowing through I've had to change character and that, my friend is the Turian Agent. High passive weapon damage, flamethrower with ability to do more damage to armor, cloak with fast recharge and ability to regen health/shields, and support system that allows shields to regenerate immediately when a tech power is used (cloak/flamethrower) although recon visor is listed as a tech power, it does not apply. Shotguns with the cloak have been a great combination. I for one, have been enjoying the challenge of platinum. I'm under the impression that those that have been struggling are afraid of change, you know, creature comforts, breaking old habits, too scared to leave the familiarity, that sort of thing. It's no longer about how many points you get but how you survive as a team. So far, I've yet to come across those "biotic gods" that are constantly detonating. That shit ain't happening in platinum
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Post by lennybusker on Jul 8, 2017 0:11:59 GMT
I don't think Platinum Hack or Upload are possible solo (aside from Stealth Grid use, perhaps). But BeeDubs doesn't care about that.
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Post by RonnieBlastoff on Jul 8, 2017 0:58:01 GMT
dude.... stop trying to get them to nerf platinum, some of us enjoy it and breeze through it. If you find platinum to difficult, you are not utilizing your best options. jeez, lets just have them take platinum away so we just can play gold to max out our now infinitely bloated manifest.... like really man. Please... Oh, and another thing... if you want to play ME3, play ME3.... Or even better, make a video of your platinum game, and I personally can tell you every single thing you fuck up on during your game, or your squad, from your perspective fucks up so you can hopefully learn from your mistakes and adapt....
I like how you completely circumvented the point I was trying to make. You can either agree with it or disagree. To throw your own non relevant comment back at you, I'm suggesting that the learning curve for Platinum is too high. If you're in the group of those that wanted to see platinum and are able to take what platinum requires to not get slaughtered, but that group you're in is the 90th percentile of those who wanted platinum, then something was missed. There's a big difference in that group being in the 50th percentile compared to the 90th percentile. Honestly, if you want Platinum to stay the way it is, fine. But recognize what it is. It's not platinum, it's closer to diamond.In a perfect world, platinum would get nerfed (just fix the damn boss units), Hack would get fixed, weak points would be restored, devices would get their old time back, and they'd introduce a difficulty up from platinum that does things like the present change Hack, negate boss weak points, throw in the boss units, and fiddle with objectives like less time for devices, bosses, and the penalties for upload interrupts. But whatever, there's no point in even trying to make these arguments I guess, the Devs have already stated that theory is at the bottom of their list. They're just worried about bugs. Excuse me if I don't get your point, my english gets worse everyday for some reason. But what is the main goal of your issue? Cause honestly from what you've written, im getting that you want an easier platinum game, (or a harder gold) with basically the same old crappy handout shyt we had in 1.08. And perhaps, a difficulty of diamond for those like myself who wish to keep things the way that they are. Am I wrong in this assumption? Cause if not, in that same token, I would say you would not get the same amount of credits for your platinum version, because in reality, all your asking for is gold match with the event style map runthrough we got like with the remnant maps. Perhaps 65K for your full extraction? Am I wrong when I go this route? I'm not trying to argue with anyone or be the asswhole troll ( yes I am ) but dude, this is more than likely the LAST difficulty for MEA. You bring up percentiles as if they are relevent in a multiplayer where 80% of the playerbase is in BRONZE!!!! One thing that I've noticed since yesterday, is that the people who are having the hardest time in platinum, are in platinum simply for the credits because they are chasing that manifest. Platinum is for people who can play it, and it is playable, because people are actually FARMING it as I type. Its not impossible, it just takes what MEAMP was made for, 4 people Co-oping and doing a mission. If you can not beat platinum, with 4 people, then the 4 of you are not " smartly" playing together, or, there has to be an or.... or, your manifest needs improvement. If its either situation, you do not belong. There is no other reason you should have issues, unless you want a handout. Because thats all you typed. oh and this bsn.boards.net/post/749529/thread
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Post by RonnieBlastoff on Jul 8, 2017 1:00:47 GMT
Platinum is more shoot, move, and communicate(if there's any). You can't set up a tent and pick off enemies any more. You gotta stay mobile to survive and so doe the squad mates. I normally play human sentinel b/c of the barricade ability of dropping cover at any time and priming enemies that surround me. With so many boss enemies plowing through I've had to change character and that, my friend is the Turian Agent. High passive weapon damage, flamethrower with ability to do more damage to armor, cloak with fast recharge and ability to regen health/shields, and support system that allows shields to regenerate immediately when a tech power is used (cloak/flamethrower) although recon visor is listed as a tech power, it does not apply. Shotguns with the cloak have been a great combination. I for one, have been enjoying the challenge of platinum. I'm under the impression that those that have been struggling are afraid of change, you know, creature comforts, breaking old habits, too scared to leave the familiarity, that sort of thing. It's no longer about how many points you get but how you survive as a team. So far, I've yet to come across those "biotic gods" that are constantly detonating. That shit ain't happening in platinum Dang brah, you just had to get all beautiful and shyt.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jul 8, 2017 1:16:13 GMT
Time to start practicing and stop posting.
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inert
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Post by inert on Jul 8, 2017 1:20:24 GMT
I've played five plat pugs so far and I've had two fails (hacks running out of time), success rate is 60%. This is not bad considering loadouts.
It may be a little easier closer to "end game" for those with the patience.
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Post by Sentinel2010 on Jul 8, 2017 3:02:09 GMT
They need to add a confirmation prompt when you choose to play Platinum matches.
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Post by Kenny Bania on Jul 8, 2017 3:22:37 GMT
They didn't think the whole thing through properly. That isn't surprising though.
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Post by Pearl on Jul 8, 2017 4:03:31 GMT
If we separate out all the retarded decisions they made with regards to objectives and whatnot, I don't have a problem with Platinum as it sits. It actually makes me pay attention to what's going on, which is something that Gold does not do. That said, I feel that because of the aforementioned retarded changes, I can't reliably PUG Platinum in this game like I could in ME3, and that makes me a little sad.
So I guess my counter would be: The issues you have with Platinum are not necessarily because of the way the mode works, but because of the changes that Bioware has made to the framework underneath it (objectives are markedly more asinine and it is possible for a skilled team to wipe for no reason other than getting bad RNG, Cobra missiles doing diddly-dick for damage).
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Post by Zerfidius on Jul 8, 2017 4:12:10 GMT
Only played two plat matches so far - one easy match with Third Race and a w6 hack fail pug - and so my opinions are only half baked on that subject.
But, it's pretty obvious that gold matches will become very very easy due to the feature creep. I wouldn't be surprised to see consistent sub-10 minute Gold pugs soon.
Overall the new features make for striking contrasts in approach to balance between ME3 & MEA. ME3 was gradual and mostly kept true to the design concepts introduced at launch. MEA had gone from "balanced around bronze" to a fantasy lolfest overnight.
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Post by gethadept on Jul 8, 2017 4:17:01 GMT
They didn't think the whole thing through properly. That isn't surprising though. im starting to believe that they r either incapable of thinking or simply don't give real shit anymore about meamp probably latter
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Post by mrfuddyduddy on Jul 8, 2017 5:10:52 GMT
+1 Simply change Hacks back to how they were pre-1.9 and all will be well.
I don't even want to attempt Platinum anymore, get a Hack on wave 4 or 6 and its a guaranteed wipe atm.
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Post by jloco11 on Jul 8, 2017 5:39:51 GMT
Platinum is harder, but not impossible... aside from hacks and to a certain extent uploads. Once the hack gets fixed, it will alleviate the biggest issue. Otherwise guns are still killing low level units fairly easily.
The problem was the implementation of Bioware's "platinum level gear". They honestly don't do much, and I wouldn't be surprised if they are currently broken when the stat nerds start looking at the numbers of what they do. Siphon guns bring back a cunthair of health. I have to kill 4-5 enemies to bring back the health from just 1 ascendant bubble shot.
The Veteran bonuses could have been thought out more. The hell does a Turian Soldier need a combo damage for? Why not a 40% headshot increase or something.
Changing the objectives, basically makes an infiltrator/stealth grid user your objective player. All other classes are meant as a distraction, while the invisible person will end up doing objectives and revives in bad places. It's narrowed down what a team can choose.
And yes, Gold became INCREDIBLY easy with these stat buffs. The Asari Adept XX alone is ridiculous running around exploding things on gold.
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Post by acicm2 on Jul 8, 2017 7:29:16 GMT
me3 plat was just boss spamming. is MEA plat the same way?
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Post by The Joe-Man on Jul 8, 2017 7:38:07 GMT
Platinum is harder, but not impossible... aside from hacks and to a certain extent uploads. Once the hack gets fixed, it will alleviate the biggest issue. Otherwise guns are still killing low level units fairly easily. The problem was the implementation of Bioware's "platinum level gear". They honestly don't do much, and I wouldn't be surprised if they are currently broken when the stat nerds start looking at the numbers of what they do. Siphon guns bring back a cunthair of health. I have to kill 4-5 enemies to bring back the health from just 1 ascendant bubble shot. +1 like for "cunthair".
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Post by Pearl on Jul 8, 2017 7:45:43 GMT
me3 plat was just boss spamming. is MEA plat the same way? yes and no. because the number of active enemies is higher, there are noticeably more boss units in play at once than there are on gold, but there are still quite a few non-boss units that make it feel less like blatant spam. oh and there are a couple new units introduced on platinum that are souped-up versions of the faction's normal boss (outlaw get a super hydra, remnant get a super destroyer, not sure if kett get anything)
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Post by guanxi on Jul 8, 2017 9:05:07 GMT
You're absolutely right... two days later, during the weekend and it's deader than a dodo while gold is heaving.
It's pretty unbearable without tactical cloak. I reckon 9/10s of the core audience tried it once and thought fuck that.
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Post by achossa on Jul 8, 2017 10:10:31 GMT
Just like in ME3, platinum narrows the range of your comfortable characters you can successfully play. Find the few that work and stick with them.
It's not impossible, it's difficult, but it's supposed to be. You should feel real comfortable in gold before attempting it. Having all the consumables and good weapons on a leveled maxed character should be something to strive for. Also don't stockpile your high level boosters. Nerfing is 99% of the time a bad choice.
That said, let's focus on the real disaster what 109 brought; the shitton of useless new cards, which for me are tipping the scale. I don't feel like grinding through all that rubbish so that I could unlock stuff.
Remove the 109 cards from advanced, expert, premium, arsenal and reserves packs. Create a separate pack just for those. At the very least for the new weapons versions which are just truly appalling.
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Post by Kenny Bania on Jul 8, 2017 10:14:26 GMT
Just like in ME3, platinum narrows the range of your comfortable characters you can successfully play. Find the few that work and stick with them. It's not impossible, it's difficult, but it's supposed to be. You should feel really real comfortable in gold before attempting it. Having all the consumables and good weapons on a leveled maxed character should be something to strive for. Also don't stockpile your high level busters. Nerfing is 99% of the time a bad choice. That sais, let's focus on the real disaster what 109 brought; the shitton of useless new cards, which for me are tipping the scale. I don't feel like grinding through all that rubbish so that I could unlock stuff. Remove the 109 cards from advanced, expert, premium, arsenal and reserves packs. Create a separate pack just for those. At the very least for the new weapons versions which are just truly appalling. This would be awesome. Let those that care for the bloat buy those packs.
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Post by stysiaq on Jul 8, 2017 11:01:53 GMT
So i guess it's still not worth picking up ME:A? I'm almost through persona 5
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