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Post by haolyn on Jul 10, 2017 16:14:34 GMT
I thought ME2 in general was pretty cheesy and relied heavily on the rule of cool to sell most of its characters. I mean I'd rather have Cora crack a few jokes than have to stare at her tits hanging out the whole game for no reason other than player titillation.
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Post by warrior on Jul 10, 2017 16:21:22 GMT
My personal opinion to the OP: They tried too hard. I saw someone post up that things were different when it came to the Citadel DLC because we were dealing with characters we had had 3 games (or 2) to get to know. Whereas, in ME:A, we have a new cast of characters who are relatively two dimensional. Cracking jokes and trying to be like Garrus or Wrex. When in the MEOT, the game was seasoned with humor. Instead of being a bunch of sarcastic idiots. Context and self awareness are very important to achieve a more uniform atmosphere. IE: ME1-Wrex to drunken General, "You're drunk." General, "You're ugly, but at least I'll be sober in the morning." Tali and garrus in the elevator. she asks garrus about leaving c-sec. he says he likes it. she says. "I'm glad that the imminent destruction of all organic life in the galaxy has improved your career opportunities"....or something close to that. (While you're debriefing the Council on the Noveria mission, if you've killed the Rachni Queen) Turian Councilor: "Do you enjoy committing genocide, Commander?" Shepherd: "Depends on the species, Turian." Point is, ME1 had the same kind of one liners, but they were more spread out over the game. They were brief moments of levity in a game that had more serious tones. Can I Like this more than once? No? too bad. Anyway, my two cents. as someone who has publicly defended this game from people like the OP and others, who constantly just fire venom at MEA, I have to be totally honest here. I got about halfway through my second go through the game, before putting it down. I haven't touched it since, that was months ago. There are a multitude of reasons for my lack of desire to return to the game, but the OPs point is indeed one of them. This lighthearted, upbeat road trip attitude is simply not enjoyable for me. I love humor when it's used to break up the tension appropriately. But it can't just be quick fire quibs all the time. <snip> I personally feel this is one of the main problems that also plagued the Fable franchise. Fable The Lost Chapters has it's hammy, ridiculous Monty Python moments to be sure. But it's main narrative was played totally straight, and while the character interactions options were not good by RPG standards, imo, it was passable for it's purposes. However as that franchise progressed, it became so damned bipolar about what it was trying to do. Fast Forward to Fable 3, and you have a totally dark, played straight narrative about a tyrannical King enslaving his people, and Dark demons from the Void coming to destroy the world, and the only way to interact with people, is by farting in their face or playing paddy cake. That is kinda how MEA feels to me, not nearly as extreme as that, but the overall point remains. Yeah, this is it. I like humor to break up tension, not as the m.o. or default mode, and MEA sustained very little tension for me throughout; there were some segments, for sure, but holistically it did not have significant background tension, so the game for me had a bit of a "flatness" about it. No friction. I've been hard on the game lately -- I did enjoy it well enough, once I got into it and "over it" (the tone) -- I played the full 100 hours and will for sure play the main story and side quests again, likely in a few years, though much sooner if SP DLC is released. But mostly due to this "lighthearted, upbeat road trip attitude," and my issues with the dialogue and story, it isn't a memorable game for me, as the OT was, and as HZD is turning out to be. I totally forgot about those Fable games. I think all the Fable games were pretty light and cartoony in tone overall, even if less so at the start, so when F3 came around with the farting it didn't feel so...different. Coming out of ME3, the tone shift in the reboot feels a bit more like whiplash. Some people find that shift refreshing after the darkness of ME3, but I do not.
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Post by jaegerbane on Jul 10, 2017 16:23:09 GMT
The game obviously didn't feel that way, or there would have been an option. What's happening in that scene is that Alec Ryder bypassed the chain and gave the Pathfinder responsibility to his child. Alec had years of experience leading teams and the young Ryder children have none. Sara was on a couple of Prothean digs and Scott kept lookout at a relay. Neither are authoritative, and to expect them to start bossing around people who have much more experience at such an early stage of the game is unlikely. Ryder steps up to it, but it isn't something he/she is all that comfortable with early on, and that's what I think the scene is conveying. No, you're the Pathfinder. You have the enhanced implant, you're the only one who can set destinations on the ship. There is a chain of command on the Pathfinder team, Pathfinder at the top, and then everyone else. Whoever is in that role deserves the respect of that role. At least from the actual members of the Pathfinder team. Also, Peebee and Drack are only there at your invitation and can be told to go kick rocks at any time. You don't need to earn anything, that would have been a condition of coming aboard your ship. If someone wants to tell me you didn't earn this or whatever. Fine, we can have that conversation, which would have added more to the game. If you wanted to sit there and take it, fine. If you wanted to air it all out right there, fine as well. Should have been the players choice though. I don't think you've understood the point. Ryder is the Pathfinder but as conversations with the various members of leadership and team indicate, he's effectively been handed the position.outside the chain of command - he hasn't earned it. It's all very well saying 'well he has the rank so they should do what he says' but given the circumstances its not really plausible.
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Post by abaris on Jul 10, 2017 16:28:51 GMT
I thought ME2 in general was pretty cheesy and relied heavily on the rule of cool to sell most of its characters. Yeah, it relied on the characters. But what was cheesy about it? It's not as if they felt the need to crack a joke at every conversation. The cheesy moments came with appropriate situations, such as Fish on the Citadel or Ramen or video games salesman. Yeah, the game was character driven, which was a good decision, far as I am concerned. But to call it cheesy, as in trying to be funny at all costs, I don't see that.
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Post by suikoden on Jul 10, 2017 16:35:28 GMT
No, you're the Pathfinder. You have the enhanced implant, you're the only one who can set destinations on the ship. There is a chain of command on the Pathfinder team, Pathfinder at the top, and then everyone else. Whoever is in that role deserves the respect of that role. At least from the actual members of the Pathfinder team. Also, Peebee and Drack are only there at your invitation and can be told to go kick rocks at any time. You don't need to earn anything, that would have been a condition of coming aboard your ship. If someone wants to tell me you didn't earn this or whatever. Fine, we can have that conversation, which would have added more to the game. If you wanted to sit there and take it, fine. If you wanted to air it all out right there, fine as well. Should have been the players choice though. I don't think you've understood the point. Ryder is the Pathfinder but as conversations with the various members of leadership and team indicate, he's effectively been handed the position.outside the chain of command - he hasn't earned it. It's all very well saying 'well he has the rank so they should do what he says' but given the circumstances its not really plausible. That's not exactly strong roleplaying though - if we have this static loser Ryder that Bioware wants us to play at the beginning until the game says we can start making our own choices... that's even more limited than Geralt.
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Post by warrior on Jul 10, 2017 16:38:20 GMT
Yup. Also if people can accept corny dialogue like this then they need to stfu about Andromeda. Edit:Btw I love that scene.Which is another reason why you like the dialogue. I find it kind of hilarious to say if you enjoyed movie X or Y you need to STFU about game X or Y taking that path. Simply STFU yourself. How does that sound? Two can play the game of exchanging absolutes and accusing the other side of being a troll, hater, fanboy, etc. It's even more hilarious, since in this poll you're absolutely in the minority, since only 8 people voted for jokes all around. The 8 most vocal defenders I would guess. ntm Star Wars is corny, ridiculous, nostalgic fun...that is ~2-6 hours of your life. Not like a video game in which you are trying to immerse yourself/be a character for ~100 hours.
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Post by rxd on Jul 10, 2017 16:41:16 GMT
Do you want me to write them or something? I mean, I don't see how that would be useful since I could literally search the internet, so you will have to trust my word, if you want to. I don't think you understood what I was saying, MEA writing is kinda bland, not anything special, it doesn't stick with you, not a whole lot, while MET is the total opposite. I still don't forget Shepard's speech during the refuse ending, powerful stuff. MEA just lacks the same punch. That's why I said at this point I don't care much for DLC, I enjoyed the game, but it's not something that left its mark in my gaming life, it's just there. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Shepard's speech for the refuse ending happens at the very end of a trilogy. Something that Andromeda is not yet. Let's try comparing apples to apples. The problem with this argument is MEA probably IS at the end of its planned trilogy now....
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Post by cypherj on Jul 10, 2017 16:41:17 GMT
No, you're the Pathfinder. You have the enhanced implant, you're the only one who can set destinations on the ship. There is a chain of command on the Pathfinder team, Pathfinder at the top, and then everyone else. Whoever is in that role deserves the respect of that role. At least from the actual members of the Pathfinder team. Also, Peebee and Drack are only there at your invitation and can be told to go kick rocks at any time. You don't need to earn anything, that would have been a condition of coming aboard your ship. If someone wants to tell me you didn't earn this or whatever. Fine, we can have that conversation, which would have added more to the game. If you wanted to sit there and take it, fine. If you wanted to air it all out right there, fine as well. Should have been the players choice though. I don't think you've understood the point. Ryder is the Pathfinder but as conversations with the various members of leadership and team indicate, he's effectively been handed the position.outside the chain of command - he hasn't earned it. It's all very well saying 'well he has the rank so they should do what he says' but given the circumstances its not really plausible. You as Ryder can think this. Like I said, if someone wants to tell me otherwise fine. That would have added more to the game as far as interactions with the crew. How is someone else's view of you going to dictate the respect you think you're owed as the Pathfinder? If you were playing a Ryder that thought this was fine, by all means, stand there and don't take an interrupt. On the other hand, if you're playing a Ryder that says we don't have time for this, you guys need to get with the plan, then that option should have been there as well. That's all I'm saying. You can't honestly tell me that if this was you, you were in charge and your entire team walked out you, you would just stand there saying yeah, I haven't earned right for them to give me the common courtesy of saying the meeting was over before they left.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 10, 2017 16:51:08 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Shepard's speech for the refuse ending happens at the very end of a trilogy. Something that Andromeda is not yet. Let's try comparing apples to apples. The problem with this argument is MEA probably IS at the end of its planned trilogy now.... We don't know that.
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Post by vonuber on Jul 10, 2017 16:52:33 GMT
The car chase and trying to hack the door immediately come to mind. How much screen time those two parts got? How long was the DLC? Do you really consider those less than five minutes long bits as the set tone now? Talk about reaching. I was merely replying to his post with a factual statement. You are assuming the rest, indeed 'reaching' yourself.
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Post by haolyn on Jul 10, 2017 16:52:39 GMT
I thought ME2 in general was pretty cheesy and relied heavily on the rule of cool to sell most of its characters. Yeah, it relied on the characters. But what was cheesy about it? It's not as if they felt the need to crack a joke at every conversation. The cheesy moments came with appropriate situations, such as Fish on the Citadel or Ramen or video games salesman. Yeah, the game was character driven, which was a good decision, far as I am concerned. But to call it cheesy, as in trying to be funny at all costs, I don't see that. Cheesy doesn't mean funny. You can have a cheesy serious tone.
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I don't like MP!
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Post by warrior on Jul 10, 2017 16:54:09 GMT
i loved that scene cause of the tense right before in the vault. It is a stress reliefer. ALso Andromeda;s tone is different to that of of the trilogy. it IS more lighthearted. You may not like lighthearted but it suits andromeda in my eyes. For the record i prefer the trilogy's darker tone but even that had some very light hearted scenes. I guess it depends what we're going for. Are we going for Adan Sandler, Will Ferrell type of comedy? If so, then yeah it fits. But that just doesn't fit the overall story to me. Your entire Initiative plan has gone to total crap, and now you have to pivot and quickly come up with alternative solutions to find a place for everyone to live or the Initiative fails, and thousands of people either die or never get out of cryo. Not to mention if the reapers actually come, the continuity of MW races as a whole is riding on this. How exactly does lighthearted fit this? If Andromeda was already established and you and some friends were exploring the new galaxy trying to see where you fit in, then lighthearted definitely fits that. ok I think those comparisons are a little unfair, though. Adam Sandler-brand humor is definitely not in this game, at all, unless his comedy style has drastically changed since I last saw one of his comedies... ? I still think GotG is the best comparison I've seen.
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Post by jaegerbane on Jul 10, 2017 16:55:01 GMT
I don't think you've understood the point. Ryder is the Pathfinder but as conversations with the various members of leadership and team indicate, he's effectively been handed the position.outside the chain of command - he hasn't earned it. It's all very well saying 'well he has the rank so they should do what he says' but given the circumstances its not really plausible. You as Ryder can think this. Like I said, if someone wants to tell me otherwise fine. That would have added more to the game as far as interactions with the crew. How is someone else's view of you going to dictate the respect you think you're owed as the Pathfinder? If you were playing a Ryder that thought this was fine, by all means, stand there and don't take an interrupt. On the other hand, if you're playing a Ryder that says we don't have time for this, you guys need to get with the plan, then that option should have been there as well. That's all I'm saying. You can't honestly tell me that if this was you, you were in charge and your entire team walked out you, you would just stand there saying yeah, I haven't earned right for them to give me the common courtesy of saying the meeting was over before they left. That's fair enough, but the game already offers you the chance for Ryder to just go with the flow or make the point that as he's in charge, he's the one to dismiss. What you're asking is for a specific interrupt which ultimately makes him out to be a Joffery Baratheon type ('I'M TEH KING!)... which, I guess would offer more RP opportunities but I'm not sure many people are bothered about playing a Joffery. Quite frankly if it were me, I'd have greater concerns then getting the last word in a staff meeting.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 10, 2017 16:55:44 GMT
Which is another reason why you like the dialogue. I find it kind of hilarious to say if you enjoyed movie X or Y you need to STFU about game X or Y taking that path. Simply STFU yourself. How does that sound? Two can play the game of exchanging absolutes and accusing the other side of being a troll, hater, fanboy, etc. It's even more hilarious, since in this poll you're absolutely in the minority, since only 8 people voted for jokes all around. The 8 most vocal defenders I would guess. ntm Star Wars is corny, ridiculous, nostalgic fun...that is ~2-6 hours of your life. Not like a video game in which you are trying to immerse yourself/be a character for ~100 hours. I see your point but I like that. Plus Andromeda isn't like that the whole game.
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Post by jaegerbane on Jul 10, 2017 16:58:06 GMT
I don't think you've understood the point. Ryder is the Pathfinder but as conversations with the various members of leadership and team indicate, he's effectively been handed the position.outside the chain of command - he hasn't earned it. It's all very well saying 'well he has the rank so they should do what he says' but given the circumstances its not really plausible. That's not exactly strong roleplaying though - if we have this static loser Ryder that Bioware wants us to play at the beginning until the game says we can start making our own choices... that's even more limited than Geralt. It's not a million miles from what they did in the original trilogy. Why couldn't Shepard refuse Anderson's orders to go into combat with a giant mecha-squid from space? Why couldn't Shepard give Jenkins orders to take point or cover him? etc etc. There's a balance to be made between telling the story and letting the player put their stamp on it.
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Post by ioannisdenton on Jul 10, 2017 17:09:36 GMT
To many unnecessary jokes, hard to take characters seriously, dialogue also doesn't come out how it's shown in screen various times, etc etc. equates to me having no interest in replaying the game. You can't even avoid most of it, sure you can "limit" it, but there's various moments where npcs say stupid crap. I didn't realize one of my favorite franchises was going into the comedy route, pointless for video games if you ask me. hyperbole?? not as many jokes. i was certainly was not laughing as much as you imply
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Post by cypherj on Jul 10, 2017 17:11:34 GMT
I guess it depends what we're going for. Are we going for Adan Sandler, Will Ferrell type of comedy? If so, then yeah it fits. But that just doesn't fit the overall story to me. Your entire Initiative plan has gone to total crap, and now you have to pivot and quickly come up with alternative solutions to find a place for everyone to live or the Initiative fails, and thousands of people either die or never get out of cryo. Not to mention if the reapers actually come, the continuity of MW races as a whole is riding on this. How exactly does lighthearted fit this? If Andromeda was already established and you and some friends were exploring the new galaxy trying to see where you fit in, then lighthearted definitely fits that. ok I think those comparisons are a little unfair, though. Adam Sandler-brand humor is definitely not in this game, at all, unless his comedy style has drastically changed since I last saw one of his comedies... ? I still think GotG is the best comparison I've seen. I didn't mean the actual jokes themselves. Those were just the first two examples of things that came to my head where the media doesn't take itself seriously, so you don't really take it seriously.
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Post by suikoden on Jul 10, 2017 17:18:50 GMT
To many unnecessary jokes, hard to take characters seriously, dialogue also doesn't come out how it's shown in screen various times, etc etc. equates to me having no interest in replaying the game. You can't even avoid most of it, sure you can "limit" it, but there's various moments where npcs say stupid crap. I didn't realize one of my favorite franchises was going into the comedy route, pointless for video games if you ask me. hyperbole?? not as many jokes. i was certainly was not laughing as much as you imply That's because most of the jokes aren't funny - that's part of the problem... humour is really hard to pull off to the point where everyone agrees it's funny or not - they should have realized how divisive attempting to shoehorn it in everywhere would be.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 10, 2017 17:22:04 GMT
hyperbole?? not as many jokes. i was certainly was not laughing as much as you imply That's because most of the jokes aren't funny - that's part of the problem... humour is really hard to pull off to the point where everyone agrees it's funny or not - they should have realized how divisive attempting to shoehorn it in everywhere would be. To you maybe. Some of it is funny, but humor is subjective.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jul 10, 2017 17:38:23 GMT
That's because most of the jokes aren't funny - that's part of the problem... humour is really hard to pull off to the point where everyone agrees it's funny or not - they should have realized how divisive attempting to shoehorn it in everywhere would be. To you maybe. Some of it is funny, but humor is subjective. Very true and subjective opinions is something that suikoden has a hard time understanding. I laugh at puns/indicate word play (like Abbot and Costello) and physical humor (like Charlie Chapman and The 3 Stooges) but that doesn't mean I have at every pun by Kevin Smith or prat fall like those Jackass losers. And if that is too hard to for people like suikoden to understand then lets try this: I laughed my ass off at Ghostbusters: Answer The Call and was bored out of my mind with Tropic Thunder.
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Post by Sondergaard on Jul 10, 2017 17:40:28 GMT
Even more than that, it seems that the biggest 'lesson' they took away from the Citadel DLC (IMO) was that no one actually wants to see a nuanced science fiction story, or a narrative with a focus on discovering the unknown, of finding those things that are inherently different from us. No, they think that we would all rather have the vague overtones of a sci-fi story, namely space ships and laser guns, as a subdued backdrop to a story about cutting it up with your goofy friends. I've wondered how anyone could come to that conclusion, but they did. I mean, how disconnected from your own franchise do you have to be to not realise that Citadel was earned after three hard fought games? Porting that style over to ME:A feels like a desperate attempt by clueless devs who didn't understand the popularity of their own game to piggyback Citadel's success.
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Post by suikoden on Jul 10, 2017 17:50:13 GMT
That's because most of the jokes aren't funny - that's part of the problem... humour is really hard to pull off to the point where everyone agrees it's funny or not - they should have realized how divisive attempting to shoehorn it in everywhere would be. To you maybe. Some of it is funny, but humor is subjective. Thanks for rephrasing exactly what I wrote.
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Post by suikoden on Jul 10, 2017 17:52:51 GMT
To you maybe. Some of it is funny, but humor is subjective. Very true and subjective opinions is something that suikoden has a hard time understanding. I laugh at puns/indicate word play (like Abbot and Costello) and physical humor (like Charlie Chapman and The 3 Stooges) but that doesn't mean I have at every pun by Kevin Smith or prat fall like those Jackass losers. And if that is too hard to for people like suikoden to understand then lets try this: I laughed my ass off at Ghostbusters: Answer The Call and was bored out of my mind with Tropic Thunder. It's like you didn't even read what I wrote. I'm saying the humour is subjective, and for that reason it is very difficult to pull off effectively - so it was probably a piss-poor idea to add comedic elements to almost every event in the game due to how this will fall flat for a lot of players.
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fatherjerusalem
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I used to think that I was cynical and a pessimist. Then I found the BSN.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: fatherjerusalem
Posts: 239 Likes: 980
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Post by fatherjerusalem on Jul 10, 2017 18:00:56 GMT
hyperbole?? not as many jokes. i was certainly was not laughing as much as you imply That's because most of the jokes aren't funny - that's part of the problem... humour is really hard to pull off to the point where everyone agrees it's funny or not - they should have realized how divisive attempting to shoehorn it in everywhere would be. Seen all of the humor available in the game in the first ten hours, did we? Sorry, but I burst out laughing when I had casual Ryder's talk about first contact with the Angara on Aya before he departed the ship. If that shit ain't funny to you... there's no help in the world for that. "If this goes badly, if I get eaten alive - even if it's hilarious - please destroy the vids." And his little jaunty handwave. Man. Find some fucking joy in your sad life, that's all I can tell you.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 10, 2017 18:07:09 GMT
Very true and subjective opinions is something that suikoden has a hard time understanding. I laugh at puns/indicate word play (like Abbot and Costello) and physical humor (like Charlie Chapman and The 3 Stooges) but that doesn't mean I have at every pun by Kevin Smith or prat fall like those Jackass losers. And if that is too hard to for people like suikoden to understand then lets try this: I laughed my ass off at Ghostbusters: Answer The Call and was bored out of my mind with Tropic Thunder. It's like you didn't even read what I wrote. I'm saying the humour is subjective, and for that reason it is very difficult to pull off effectively - so it was probably a piss-poor idea to add comedic elements to almost every event in the game due to how this will fall flat for a lot of players. So because humor is subjective, and different people take it differently they shouldn't use it?! Now that's funny.
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