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Post by DomeWing333 on Oct 12, 2017 2:25:44 GMT
That was a well thought out answer. I suppose If I gave more detail about the way the rape was depicted, you may see my reasoning as to why I think it shouldn't have been printed. I think the """accidental""" aspect of this actually makes it a good deal more problematic than other kinds of "ravishment" stories where the culpability of the perpetrator isn't in question. At least in those, there's no sense of excusing the behavior or framing it as anything other than what it is. The villainy of the act is made clear.
Here, the situation is framed as a ludicrous "misunderstanding" despite what sounds to be clear indications from the woman that she's not okay with this. The legitimacy of the act as a rape is brought into question, with the man being able to claim that "Well it wasn't rape from my perspective," even though that's objectively what happened. And still worse, the basis of the attempt to explain away the man's actions is the way she was dressed and the possibility that she may have been a sex worker. That line of thinking reinforces the kind of nonsense that pops up in real-life cases. And that I can definitely see being something that an editor picks out.
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Post by phoray on Oct 12, 2017 15:03:08 GMT
Would you say there is good writing music? or do you guys write in silence? I grew up as 1 of 6 kids so silence is actually pretty distracting to me.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2017 16:08:51 GMT
Would you say there is good writing music? or do you guys write in silence? I grew up as 1 of 6 kids so silence is actually pretty distracting to me. Music is an irritant to me and normally gives me headache, so I do write in silence (and I really like sielence). I do a lot of writing when I am walking as well, turning things over in my head, particularly the dialogues and the bright/cool (imo) paragraphs that are the whole reason I write each story for, until I am ready to start typing it for the first time.
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Post by smilesja on Oct 12, 2017 17:57:15 GMT
Would you say there is good writing music? or do you guys write in silence? I grew up as 1 of 6 kids so silence is actually pretty distracting to me. I’m mixed when it comes to music. Sometimes it relaxes me or distracts me. It depends on my mood I guess.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2017 19:25:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2017 22:25:50 GMT
Rape in storytelling doesn't necessarily need to portrayed in violence. For example, there is statutory rape. snip What seems important to say in relation to your post is that while the subject of rape shouldn't be something that is celebrated it also shouldn't be ignored and remain unspoken either. In dark and repulsive ignorance is where these abuses occur and abusers operate with the hope that witnesses, authorities, and the abused will have other concerns or prefer to justify the abuse or willfully ignore it. If handled carefully, thoughtfully and thoroughly writing on the subject of rape could bring awareness to ignorance by extending an opportunity to engage a dialogue on the subject to a larger audience. In a way it brings light as well as reason and may help prevent recurrences and protect those who are vulnerable and, perhaps, bring healing to communities. That was a well thought out answer. I suppose If I gave more detail about the way the rape was depicted, you may see my reasoning as to why I think it shouldn't have been printed. A rich noble girl sneaks out to go partying and dresses riske' intentionally. This is supposedly in the time where horse carriages were a thing. I think she even intentionally hung out with some prostitute/call girls at the party. "a handsome man", also likely a noble, who went to that party for fun and Ladies Entertainment arrives. They dance and talk and flirt. He takes her to an empty room or his carriage, I can't remember which. They start getting frisky, but being a noble woman rather attached to her viriginity, she outright pushes at his hands to get them off her and repeatedly tells him no. Not in the sexy breathy "no, but I mean yes, so talk me out of saying no" kind of no. Actual frightened frantic no. He forces himself on her anyway, she isn't written as implied to like it in any fashion, and he leaves her with a wad of cash and walks out. She's depicted as crying. I think the next time they meet, he realizes she's actually a noble woman and NOT the prostitute he'd thought she was. As if her being a prostitute would have made any of that okay. And he tries to apologize and said he thought she was doing that PRostitute thing of saying no? And since I stopped reading it, I don't know how he "made it up to her" or got her to forgive him long enough to establish a romance and marry her and oh good, it doesn't matter anymore? No. Just no. That was a legitimate rape there. there was nothing sexy about. And the implied attempts on his behalf to make it right were on the premise of his finding out she was of noble birth. Maybe that sort of romance is for women with a rape fetish. I have talked to such people. I just don't think Harlequin Romance usually writes for that niche. Between 12 and 17 I read a lot of harlquin romance novels and that was the only one that started the book with an actual legitimate rape, so my perspective is that it was not Harlequin's norm. Thank you for providing a relevant and insightful response. The scene you described is severe and its inclusion would seem to be an unexpected and unwanted surprise that is outside Harlequin's norm. Maybe it was an intentional choice to evoke shock for correlative emphasis. Perhaps, this sort of scene is more common in their historical publications. I'm not very familiar with their books and only took a quick tour of their publications while waiting for a reply from an acquaintance that reputedly has read many. Taken in isolation that scene could be viewed as titillation for those with a fetish for such fantasy. However, taken in context of the entire book it may be a foundation for a narrative within that setting which could be developed into a semblance of social commentary. The author could confront those dynamics which allowed the male to rationalize his behavior, like the dehumanization of prostitutes or the caste implications. From this a story of liberation and redemption could be developed and provide the means for the heroine to change the man for the better and, in a sense, also change the world she lives in. Provided that that particular male character is the romantic interest and not an antagonist. In the end, this type of development would still have to remain romantic pulp fiction. No one would expect it to be otherwise from Harlequin. ---- As for music. That varies. I sometimes play music to block out distracting noises or get into the right frame of mind. Once I'm in an inspired state any music becomes background noise and is hardly noticeable to me. Still, if I play music I tend to stay with something ambient from various genres that has a smooth and uniform level of nuanced sound. Last night it was John Zorn. Right now it's...
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Post by BamBam the Destroyer on Oct 13, 2017 2:24:46 GMT
Would you say there is good writing music? or do you guys write in silence? I grew up as 1 of 6 kids so silence is actually pretty distracting to me. Instrumental or Classical. The lyrics are distracting.
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Post by Lady Artifice on Oct 13, 2017 5:14:25 GMT
Would you say there is good writing music? or do you guys write in silence? I grew up as 1 of 6 kids so silence is actually pretty distracting to me. The struggle to find music that works in the background and isn't too distracting for me is very real. I rather like the list this guy came up with: cinematic instrumental usually works out better than most for me. But then, it depends what I'm writing. Weirdly, most songs from the 1930s seem to be fine, even if they have lyrics. But of course, that's very probably just me. And I'm also writing a story that takes place in the 1940s, so it might actually be situational as well.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 13, 2017 7:39:57 GMT
On the subject of music I just tend to put on whatever. BUT, if you want my advice, the Dragon Age Inquisition soundtrack seems to be really good to get those creative juices flowing...maybe the Game of Thrones one? Hadn't tried it. Human by Rag N' Boneman is also good for...pretty much anything...and just reminding one how many mistakes they can make, but that's ok, cause we are only human...after all.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 14:07:10 GMT
Good folks, if anyone has a moment? I have been fighting with this one for a couple of days. It's under 1000 words, but I transition the character twice & cannot get around it, there is a lot of place changes in this chapter. Does it still feel forced or okay? Prefect Pu Liang parted the curtains to check the progress of his sedan chair. They were barely past the half way point of the windy road up the Hill of the Five Seasons. He sighed in frustration, leaned back, closed his eyes and pictured Serene Sister Weynala again. He was confident that she’d summoned him today because of a certain scroll he’d slipped from his sleeve into hers during their last audience. The matter she cited in her letter was far too trifling to be anything but a pretext to see him. Pu Liang willed himself to see her whispering the verses he’d written back at him as the flower petals fell and fell from her eyelashes past her dark lips. Instead, his imagination uncooperatively painted Serene Sister distant and angry. She ripped his scroll to shreds and threw the scraps at him. His heart lurched, his mind protested the very image it created… why, why? Other men found the fairies spooky, but not Pu Liang.
For most of his life Liang studied for the Examination, and when he was finally admitted to sit it, it was rapture, a culmination of fruitful, exciting years. Alas, the success, the high rank awarded to him and the position in Port Sutao, were not enough for Pu Liang. His days were aimless and dull, since he no longer had the Examination to strive for. Yet Pu Liang served diligently, hoping that a new goal worthy of his mettle would manifest itself. It did, but surprisingly, it was not a political intrigue, or a philosophical dilemma, but a man’s desire. The day Pu Liang first visited the fairies in his official capacity as Prefect, his mind awakened from slumber, spurred on by the excitement of the new challenge. He aspired to win Sister Weynala’s love at least as fervently as he’d wished to pass the Examination when he was a student.
Pu Liang’s anxieties evaporated faster than water in the Sea of Sand and Bones when he finally stepped out of his litter into the courtyard of the Temple of Serene Joy. A fairy acolyte glided over from the dormitories, and beckoned for him to follow. The audience was an informal one, so Pu Liang was not surprised to be led away from the glorious buildings that crowned the Hill of Five Seasons and could be seen from afar. As one of the very few humans who had been admitted on the fairy lands, Pu knew that those buildings were the least cherished of the fairy’s holdings. The Temple grounds extended far beyond what should have fit on the Hill, a patchwork of small gardens and pavilions, each one existing in the season that set off its beauty the best and reflected the mood of its fairy owner. This was the most precious part of the Temple of Serene Joy, set perhaps in Heavens, and linked by some imperceptible boundary to the Hill and its buildings of Earthly materials. Today Pu Liang walked mostly through the displays of Spring, fairies’ favorite season. His eyes grew accustomed to pink and white blossoms coating the boughs, blue stars of snowdrops studding the carpet of emerging grass. Among that splendor, he knew Serene Sister Weynala’s stronghold at once, by the crimson of the autumnal leaves.
Pu Liang followed the stone path to the pavilion, and his heart leapt into his throat when the silent guide stopped at the gates and did not follow him. He walked inside the pavilion, to find a room full of intricately carved tables, benches and shelves, all covered in scrolls. Elated to be in Sister Weynala’s presence, Pu Liang watched her to peruse a scroll. It was not his, but Liang could see it, unrolled, in front of her.
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Post by phoray on Oct 13, 2017 19:21:49 GMT
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Post by smilesja on Oct 13, 2017 19:32:44 GMT
That's Hollywood's bread and butter there.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 20:34:20 GMT
Forgot a step with a Token Spirited Female Character That Embodies Virtue, Has Breasts and Everything Imagine pictures of Arwen, Hermoine and Leia
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Post by phoray on Oct 13, 2017 21:40:07 GMT
Hermoine didn't have bewbs for a long time. They really pushed her frizzy hair and those robes were pretty loose.
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Post by smilesja on Oct 14, 2017 5:20:59 GMT
Forgot a step with a Token Spirited Female Character That Embodies Virtue, Has Breasts and Everything Imagine pictures of Arwen, Hermoine and Leia Don't forget the token black guy whose lines consist of nothing but stereotypical stuff.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 14, 2017 7:54:55 GMT
Character deaths:
A recent conversation I have had (on this very board none the less) about this topic, and I have now been pondering it. Not so much from a writing perspective, but from an audience perspective.
Now for some people, obviously, lots of character deaths turns them off. They find it difficult to relate to characters when a lot of them could die, hence, they could not get into the story at all. Finding it more difficult.
The other school of thought seems to be, and I belong to this school, that character deaths heightens the involvement and the stakes of a story. If any character suddenly dies, or is threatened by death, it raises the stakes for the entire group. When Ned Stark, or Robb Stark, or Jon Snow, got offed it could prove that anyone could, which makes me pay attention to the story and the inter relationships of the characters. And it makes them sympathetic because it is a more realistic, high stakes world.
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Post by walkeroflonelyroads on Oct 14, 2017 11:20:27 GMT
Would you say there is good writing music? or do you guys write in silence? I grew up as 1 of 6 kids so silence is actually pretty distracting to me. It varies for me. I tend to write with music in my ears, to get a "feel" for that moment I'm writing. Some others times I just write in silence, but those moments are rare. I write my Andromeda fic to the tune of: James Blunt's "Love Me Better" (for the scenes where feelings are explored, and because I wrote my first chapters listening to it, stuck in my head ever since) MS MR's "Hurricane" (for general background, love the haunting vocals, kind of suitable, constantly reminding myself my characters are in an alien galaxy) Rag'n'bone Man's "Human", of course (first time I saw the trailer with that song playing, I fell in love with Andromeda, so hyped!) Linkin Park's "Heavy" (rest in peace, Chester) Childish Gambino's "Heartbeat" And maybe a few others I have missed. These are the few songs off the top of my head.
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Post by walkeroflonelyroads on Oct 14, 2017 11:24:27 GMT
Character deaths: A recent conversation I have had (on this very board none the less) about this topic, and I have now been pondering it. Not so much from a writing perspective, but from an audience perspective. Now for some people, obviously, lots of character deaths turns them off. They find it difficult to relate to characters when a lot of them could die, hence, they could not get into the story at all. Finding it more difficult. The other school of thought seems to be, and I belong to this school, that character deaths heightens the involvement and the stakes of a story. If any character suddenly dies, or is threatened by death, it raises the stakes for the entire group. When Ned Stark, or Robb Stark, or Jon Snow, got offed it could prove that anyone could, which makes me pay attention to the story and the inter relationships of the characters. And it makes them sympathetic because it is a more realistic, high stakes world. Which reflects real life, something I find sorely lacking in stories these days. Granted, some authors explain their reluctance to kill characters off as "Well, then the story wouldn't be interesting now would it?" But I think if done well, as you've said, colfoley, it'll make the interpersonal relationships more meaningful. And thus enhances the story. IF DONE WELL.
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Post by phoray on Oct 14, 2017 12:23:14 GMT
if he can die, then anyone can die means I shouldn't bother getting attached. I can understand "the stakes" in other ways. Imprisonment, torture, rape, starvation, plague. A sacrifice of one person to turn into a magical tree permanently, giving up the life she loved, to keep the tide of demons back.
Death just seems lazy by comparison? Not saying death shouldn't ever happen.
But there are more people who love GoT and Walking Dead then don't, so perhaps I'm just weird in that way.
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Post by legbamel on Oct 14, 2017 14:20:13 GMT
Whether character death works in the story really depends on the setting. If I have zombies and I'm trying to convey the imminent danger faced by my protagonists, hell yes there should be character death. It shouldn't be gratuitous or happen to all but my magically proficient heroine, however, and there needs to be a reason for readers to care about the character who dies. There's no emotional investment in a meat grinder with a Sue decked out in plot armor.
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Post by auu on Oct 14, 2017 17:10:24 GMT
It was suggested that I post this here. For those that already replied to the topic, thank you for your advice and you may ignore that topic. Sorry, no. I'm not contemplating murder. Well, a real murder. I am an amateur writer. I have this plot point for a story I'm writing, and I'm not sure what route to take. I want to hear some opinions. I'm going to summarize as simply as I can. There are two 16-year-old twin sisters. A and E. E runs away to the city and gets mixed up in a bad crowed. E starts dating a punk in the city who introduces her to drugs. E becomes obsessed with the boy, possibly brainwashed (I have reasons). A thinks E is not herself anymore. A becomes jealous of all the attention E is giving to the boy. A hates the boy, and blames him for turning E into a drug addict. E dies in a car accident, and A blames the boy for her sister's death. A confronts the boy. A finds that the boy is a mess, mourning E's death. So here's my conundrum. The boy is to die. He's a character destined to die. And when he dies, A is haunted by him. It starts as maleficent haunt, HOWEVER, over time he becomes a sort of a protector of A. Kind of like a knight. The idea is that he is redeemed in death. Now. I'm not sure exactly how I want him to die. 1. A kills him in self-defense. 2. It's an accidental death--coked up, he tries to attack A, she pushes him, and his head goes splat on a corner of something. 3. He is murdered by some other plot point that I haven't thought of. I'm thinking either 1 or 2. I like 1 because it's not a passive decision. It's character defining for A to kill someone..right? What I like about 2 is that it mirrors E's accidental death; HOWEVER, it is more passive. With 2 a would still feel guilty and blame herself for his death, but she could always fall back on it as being an unfortunate event. Huh...I could also see 2 as being especially grey, as A could struggle with the idea of maybe it wasn't an accident, and she always wanted him dead. I guess that would make 1 the more passive choice...right? Because the boy basically made the decision for A, attacking her, and making A kill him. UGGGH Option 3 only exists because a scene/image came to me of the boy stumbling towards A. A thinks he's on something, but discovers that he was stabbed. I realize there could be an option 4 where she kills him in cold blood, but it's not A's character to do such a thing. Even though I feel as I'm even further from making a decision, I think this helped. Maybe I should write all three scenes and see, which fits better.
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Post by Lady Artifice on Oct 14, 2017 22:55:33 GMT
Forgot a step with a Token Spirited Female Character That Embodies Virtue, Has Breasts and Everything Imagine pictures of Arwen, Hermoine and Leia Wait, you see Hermione as a "token" female character? Hermione Granger, the one who comes up with half of the solutions to the problems in the series and who has dozens of complex discussions and relationships with other female characters? Exactly how do define a token female character?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2017 23:58:30 GMT
Forgot a step with a Token Spirited Female Character That Embodies Virtue, Has Breasts and Everything Imagine pictures of Arwen, Hermoine and Leia Wait, you see Hermione as a "token" female character? Hermione Granger, the one who comes up with half of the solutions to the problems in the series and who has dozens of complex discussions and relationships with other female characters? Exactly how do define a token female character? Token was not the best word, I should have used "one". One that embodies all the qualities by which to judge the womanhood by.
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Post by phoray on Oct 15, 2017 0:01:45 GMT
auuI like the accidental death. Her guilt will allow him to be around haunting her instead of a more Righteous Anger that should lead to banishing him.
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Walkin' shoes walkin' back into BSN.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by legbamel on Oct 15, 2017 0:57:14 GMT
I think 1 and 2 are both essentially self-defense. 2 would work better if she got angry and shoved him rather than him attacking her. That way the guilt would be more reasonable, especially if she lied about what happened to get out of being charged with a crime.
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