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Post by smilesja on Oct 9, 2017 20:43:14 GMT
All this talk about rape is making me uncomfortable.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 9, 2017 20:44:57 GMT
well you have twilight and...wait was this fifty shades of gray you were reading? I've read Twilight. There is no rape in it. o_O I haven't read Fifty Shades of Grey because I've actually been in the BDSM crowd in real life and have no interest in a fantasy version of it that has a submissive woman as the protagonist. But I'm under the assumption from people's comments of it that it doesn't depict rape either. I recall friends saying it depicted some things well and other things awful and rape never came up- that would have represented us pretty poorly for sure, so I think it would have come up. This was a Harlequin romance book. My mother started buying them at age 13 and I think I was 16 at the time of the novel destruction. lol. But yeah for smiles sake let's get back to writing convos.
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Post by phoray on Oct 9, 2017 20:47:53 GMT
In my massive fan fiction, I have a Implied molestation of one of my characters. How she deals with the Templar who accosted her as well as it's affects on her future relationship with Zevran are featured.
I think to say we can't talk about rape and how it's depicted in fiction because it makes Smiles uncomfortable is a bit silly. If it's a topic handled in a respectful manner it should be allowed. Or is this the PG 13 Writer's Corner?
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Post by smilesja on Oct 9, 2017 20:56:02 GMT
I was half joking. In my RP, my character has PTSD. I’m currently researching it at the moment, though I’ve studied this a lot.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 9, 2017 21:33:50 GMT
Rape just tends to be a really touchy subject.
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Post by DomeWing333 on Oct 10, 2017 1:40:48 GMT
I just found the idea of the rape victim coming round to love their "accidental" rapist as beyond abhorrent. Don't know how that got past an editors eyes. This was a Harlequin romance book. Well I mean rape-y scenarios are pretty common in a lot of romance books (there's even a special name for them: "bodice rippers"). The representation of it isn't meant to be realistic or true to life any more than, say, having dozens of people die a bloody shootout in an action novel. It's about escapism and flights of fancy. That's not something an editor would call out because it's inherent to the genre.
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Post by smilesja on Oct 10, 2017 7:52:38 GMT
So any advice for writing battles? Aside from the links fiannawolf kindly provided?
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Post by colfoley on Oct 10, 2017 8:07:47 GMT
So any advice for writing battles? Aside from the links fiannawolf kindly provided? My aim is to copy the Battle of the Bastards. Large battle, chaos, but we never lost track of our characters.
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Post by smilesja on Oct 10, 2017 8:14:51 GMT
So any advice for writing battles? Aside from the links fiannawolf kindly provided? My aim is to copy the Battle of the Bastards. Large battle, chaos, but we never lost track of our characters. Sounds great! But do you have any advice?
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Post by phoray on Oct 10, 2017 18:44:11 GMT
I'm wondering if I need to read the awful awful game of thrones books to see how they were able to introduce 30 characters well enough for you to keep them straight.
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Post by DomeWing333 on Oct 10, 2017 19:06:24 GMT
Pssh. 30 characters? Hell, there are like 30 characters named "Bran Stark."
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Post by smilesja on Oct 10, 2017 19:14:08 GMT
I'm wondering if I need to read the awful awful game of thrones books to see how they were able to introduce 30 characters well enough for you to keep them straight. I can barely keep track of 10!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 19:15:17 GMT
I'm wondering if I need to read the awful awful game of thrones books to see how they were able to introduce 30 characters well enough for you to keep them straight. When I read the novels first, I started with the second one (while waiting on the first), and had no problems with getting into it. Martin is a television writer so he is able to handle the PoV approach beautifully. After reading the Game of Thrones proper (that is actually the name of the first novel) I considered the introductory chapter to the second book stronger, actually. I would highly recommend reading the first three novels in the A Song of Ice and Fire series. Yes, some passages are hard to take, and the story collapses into the fourth and fifth novel, but the writing is very distinctive and engrossing to start with. Even better, try searching the net for Martin reading a chapter or two. Or making a presentation. I was lucky to catch a couple of his signings before he was famous and actually went on book tours like a regular mortal to the backwater cons... and boy, was he marvelous as a story-teller before a live audience. If the ASOIF is a hard read, his Dunk and Egg novels are shorter, lighter and deal with far less characters, but still demonstrate well his story-telling ability. And failing that, well, there is always Joe Abercrombie, just not the Heroes, lol. But I had been out of reading fiction for a few years now, so might be the new authors have emerged, and I am living off very old and distant memories.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 10, 2017 20:19:33 GMT
I'm wondering if I need to read the awful awful game of thrones books to see how they were able to introduce 30 characters well enough for you to keep them straight. it is a challenge. Honestly a lot i have ti stop and think who is who and remember where they were last time.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 20:52:50 GMT
thankfully i don't think my booksPwill have a rape. I mean, sometimes rape is important to the narrative when depicting a war. I just found the idea of the rape victim coming round to love their "accidental" rapist as beyond abhorrent. Don't know how that got past an editors eyes. Rape in storytelling doesn't necessarily need to portrayed in violence. For example, there is statutory rape. Recently, I've begun drafting and researching a writing project around that criminality and online communities. This project began as a catharsis to deal with a real life event involving the luring and sexual abuse of a minor and the subsequent cover up I had witnessed and tried to prevent. However, what began as a project to come to terms with the event is taking on a life of its own. As the draft grows it's becoming apparent that there are many insights that could be laid out in the story. One of the abhorrent lessons being that sometimes victims will look to their abusers as friends. Another being that women will also participate in the abuse of minors. Another is that a community in a belief to preserve itself, its interests, or its members will protect abusers and castigate those that would speak out about it. That is just an example of the basic surface of the it. There are some interesting parallels in the media recently with Weinstein, Cyril Smith and the story of a young German girl(16) from a broken home groomed by members of ISIL. Yet, all these are just simply the surface of some basics and those news events something to add to the setting. As the study of events progresses and after a thorough analysis and development of the characters is completed it's expected that various pathologies could be explored and developed in depth in the project through character behaviors and dialogue. It's based on a true story which has provided insights that would have escaped my imagination but didn't escape that of the abusers. It's my goal to remain true to events, although names and other identifiers may be changed. What seems important to say in relation to your post is that while the subject of rape shouldn't be something that is celebrated it also shouldn't be ignored and remain unspoken either. In dark and repulsive ignorance is where these abuses occur and abusers operate with the hope that witnesses, authorities, and the abused will have other concerns or prefer to justify the abuse or willfully ignore it. If handled carefully, thoughtfully and thoroughly writing on the subject of rape could bring awareness to ignorance by extending an opportunity to engage a dialogue on the subject to a larger audience. In a way it brings light as well as reason and may help prevent recurrences and protect those who are vulnerable and, perhaps, bring healing to communities.
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Post by DomeWing333 on Oct 10, 2017 21:10:59 GMT
^I'd be careful with that.
"No, officers, you don't understand. I was only on all those sites because I was...researching the abuse of minors among online communities."
Someone could mistake you for some kind of weird sicko who's obsessed with that stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 21:18:28 GMT
It wasn't on a darkweb site, DomeWing333 . It was on a site that one would expect there wouldn't be such conduct. It was a gaming website. Of course, you'd know nothing about that. Your response does bring up an interesting pathology that will be in the project. How some sexual abusers won't take responsibility for their actions and the harm they cause and will continue to victimize. Until they are stopped. edit: Since you're one to edit your posts later it seems prudent to quote you in full with what you have currently written: ^I'd be careful with that.
"No, officers, you don't understand. I was only on all those sites because I was...researching the abuse of minors among online communities."
Someone could mistake you for some kind of weird sicko who's obsessed with that stuff.
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Post by DomeWing333 on Oct 10, 2017 21:34:56 GMT
O...kay. Well it seems a bit odd to be using what you saw as abuse on a public site to fuel a pet project as "a catharsis" for you to deal with the event. You don't want to make it seem like this whole thing is more about your own sense of self-importance than about any actual harm that may have occurred.
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Post by BamBam the Destroyer on Oct 10, 2017 21:45:55 GMT
Rape just tends to be a really touchy subject. It's probably a bad idea to base my shameless cash-in idiot-level romance for the Twilight/Fifty Shades crowd. Also, I think I have to use a female pen name. That will be awkward.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 21:52:21 GMT
O...kay. Well it seems a bit odd to be using what you saw as abuse on a public site to fuel a pet project as "a catharsis" for you to deal with the event. You don't want to make it seem like this whole thing is more about your own sense of self-importance than about any actual harm that may have occurred. There was originally no intent for the work to become public or be published. It was a way to deal with my trauma. There is no claim being made that I was the victim or worse off. It's not self-glorifying. It's peculiar that you would view it as such. Well, it does happen that people project their own behaviors when attempting to interpret others. Especially, if they're trying to assert their own self-important viewpoint into a work by attacking the author. This is a difficult thing for me to talk about and I would appreciate if you could back off on the accusations and attacks to my character.
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Post by BamBam the Destroyer on Oct 10, 2017 21:54:15 GMT
O...kay. Well it seems a bit odd to be using what you saw as abuse on a public site to fuel a pet project as "a catharsis" for you to deal with the event. You don't want to make it seem like this whole thing is more about your own sense of self-importance than about any actual harm that may have occurred. There was originally no intent for the work to become public or be published. It was a way to deal with my trauma. There is no claim being made that I was the victim or worse off. If this is true, you are wasting your trauma. Trauma is motivation! (Sometimes)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 21:58:07 GMT
There was originally no intent for the work to become public or be published. It was a way to deal with my trauma. There is no claim being made that I was the victim or worse off. If this is true, you are wasting your trauma. Trauma is motivation! (Sometimes) It's motivation to write to change it into something healthy. It's how someone I know dealt with their traumas. They recommended others do so and it helped them.
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Post by DomeWing333 on Oct 10, 2017 22:07:35 GMT
O...kay. Well it seems a bit odd to be using what you saw as abuse on a public site to fuel a pet project as "a catharsis" for you to deal with the event. You don't want to make it seem like this whole thing is more about your own sense of self-importance than about any actual harm that may have occurred. There was originally no intent for the work to become public or be published. It was a way to deal with my trauma. There is no claim being made that I was the victim or worse off. It's not self-glorifying. It's peculiar that you would view it as such. Well, it does happen that people project their own behaviors when attempting to interpret others. Especially, if they're trying to assert their own self-important viewpoint into a work by attacking the author. This is a difficult thing for me to talk about and I would appreciate if you could back off on the accusations and attacks to my character. There's no attacking here. I'm just giving you insight into how this project might come off to a perspective audience given you manner of describing it. Framing it as "your trauma" and the pretense of grandeur in that "until they are stopped(!!!)" line seems tone-deaf and pretentious. It's fine to make it all "me, me, me" when it's a private thing you write for yourself to quell whatever demons you have, but when you bring that attitude out into the public, that inclination just going to derail whatever point you think you're going to make.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 22:13:35 GMT
There was originally no intent for the work to become public or be published. It was a way to deal with my trauma. There is no claim being made that I was the victim or worse off. It's not self-glorifying. It's peculiar that you would view it as such. Well, it does happen that people project their own behaviors when attempting to interpret others. Especially, if they're trying to assert their own self-important viewpoint into a work by attacking the author. This is a difficult thing for me to talk about and I would appreciate if you could back off on the accusations and attacks to my character. There's no attacking here. I'm just giving you insight into how this project might come off to a perspective audience given you manner of describing it. Framing it as "your trauma" and the pretense of grandeur in that "until they are stopped(!!!)" line seems tone-deaf and pretentious. It's fine to make it all "me, me, me" when it's a private thing you write for yourself to quell whatever demons you have, but when you bring that attitude out into the public, that inclination just going to derail whatever point you think you're going to make.
Of course. Your contribution will be considered appropriately.
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Post by phoray on Oct 12, 2017 1:47:39 GMT
I mean, sometimes rape is important to the narrative when depicting a war. I just found the idea of the rape victim coming round to love their "accidental" rapist as beyond abhorrent. Don't know how that got past an editors eyes. Rape in storytelling doesn't necessarily need to portrayed in violence. For example, there is statutory rape. snip What seems important to say in relation to your post is that while the subject of rape shouldn't be something that is celebrated it also shouldn't be ignored and remain unspoken either. In dark and repulsive ignorance is where these abuses occur and abusers operate with the hope that witnesses, authorities, and the abused will have other concerns or prefer to justify the abuse or willfully ignore it. If handled carefully, thoughtfully and thoroughly writing on the subject of rape could bring awareness to ignorance by extending an opportunity to engage a dialogue on the subject to a larger audience. In a way it brings light as well as reason and may help prevent recurrences and protect those who are vulnerable and, perhaps, bring healing to communities. That was a well thought out answer. I suppose If I gave more detail about the way the rape was depicted, you may see my reasoning as to why I think it shouldn't have been printed. A rich noble girl sneaks out to go partying and dresses riske' intentionally. This is supposedly in the time where horse carriages were a thing. I think she even intentionally hung out with some prostitute/call girls at the party. "a handsome man", also likely a noble, who went to that party for fun and Ladies Entertainment arrives. They dance and talk and flirt. He takes her to an empty room or his carriage, I can't remember which. They start getting frisky, but being a noble woman rather attached to her viriginity, she outright pushes at his hands to get them off her and repeatedly tells him no. Not in the sexy breathy "no, but I mean yes, so talk me out of saying no" kind of no. Actual frightened frantic no. He forces himself on her anyway, she isn't written as implied to like it in any fashion, and he leaves her with a wad of cash and walks out. She's depicted as crying. I think the next time they meet, he realizes she's actually a noble woman and NOT the prostitute he'd thought she was. As if her being a prostitute would have made any of that okay. And he tries to apologize and said he thought she was doing that PRostitute thing of saying no? And since I stopped reading it, I don't know how he "made it up to her" or got her to forgive him long enough to establish a romance and marry her and oh good, it doesn't matter anymore? No. Just no. That was a legitimate rape there. there was nothing sexy about. And the implied attempts on his behalf to make it right were on the premise of his finding out she was of noble birth. Maybe that sort of romance is for women with a rape fetish. I have talked to such people. I just don't think Harlequin Romance usually writes for that niche. Between 12 and 17 I read a lot of harlquin romance novels and that was the only one that started the book with an actual legitimate rape, so my perspective is that it was not Harlequin's norm.
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