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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on May 30, 2018 20:01:46 GMT
Thoughts on use of multiple narrators - As a storyteller, I have always struggled with continuity of narrative voice over the course of a story. Generally, this occurs almost subconsciously... Starting as a first person narrator, I inevitably feel confined due to a sometimes large or at least significant cast of characters beyond the protagonist, and slip into third person voices. My "novel" thought of the day, which certainly is not a "new" idea - perhaps change my structure, and write overlapping tales of different voices, contained in different "books" of the same novel. It could possibly be a chapter by chapter thing as well. Probably mixing FP/TPO. It might be interesting as well to play with which tale you tell first, and determine ultimately who was more reliable. Thoughts? Examples for me to read? - Well... It's complex question. Going by my own early efforts and mistakes, I almost never start a story these days with a first person narrator. For some reason I was greatly tempted to do that in the beginning, without thinking much about it. When I was young there were some novels that influenced me to think it was kinda cool. But here's what I think now. Only use first person narrator if you know exactly why you're doing it. Like there's a reason we only see one person's perspective. There's not much point to do it otherwise. You can write a complete novel completely from one person's perspective, without using first person, using name and pronoun. But sometimes, there is a very good reason. A brilliant example is Gene Wolfe's (RIP) masterpiece 'Book of The New Sun'. A tetralogy. I suppose I'm throwing out a bit of a spoiler, but it is literally the book of the new sun. I didn't understand that until the last pages, but that's me I guess. Other examples are detective stories or mysteries. Otherwise, I think I have a bit of an opposite problem. I don't use first person and use multiple persons perspectives. But I sometimes find I have difficulties in switching tone. That is no problem if you don't have much of a tone, being more objective. But I often slip into some sort of tone. My current tentative plans are to rewrite some things I'm working on, to be more observing, and revealing less of what the person thinks and feels. ...But I'm not sure that will really be "better" So I haven't started yet.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on May 30, 2018 20:48:40 GMT
^^^ thoughtful response, thank you I used to start everything from third person omniscient. It became oddly limiting for me, I suppose because I am no Tolkien... I want to be reliable and it gets in the way of organic "discovery". If it is was easy, we'd all be doing it successfully I suppose
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2018 23:14:26 GMT
Thoughts on use of multiple narrators - As a storyteller, I have always struggled with continuity of narrative voice over the course of a story. Generally, this occurs almost subconsciously... Starting as a first person narrator, I inevitably feel confined due to a sometimes large or at least significant cast of characters beyond the protagonist, and slip into third person voices. I can do both, first person and many narrators. G.R.R Martin's world feels much bigger to me personally because of many narrator's (though my first page was a better example of this though more than my other pages, which forgo this recipe as I'm basically doing first person anyhow). As for my progie, I pretend that they all are my progie in someway, but my main one is Rhaegar though. He's the anti-hero struggling to deal with his past actions upon his Kingdom and upon his son and heir. Rhaegar's the main progie, and the antognastics would be the Lannister's (cause they killed his daughter) but they get away with it (in his opinion). But it's Rhaegar's fault for letting Jaime out of the King's Guard and allowing him to go back to Casterly Rock, to marry that Tully woman. Basically, Jaime's POV is super duper light hearted (feeling) as a result of Jaime feeling like he doesn't have to worry about the Targaryen's wrath anymore (though Tywin worries about it enough to the point of telling Jaime to be wary about it) I don't feel confined by many pov's, they help me establish my world and character's, giving them voices of their own. Just a thought of my own about it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2018 4:21:16 GMT
*waits boredly for comments on fanfiction because I utterly changed it... idk if for the better, but at least now it has a plot and now I have a plan for it now, lol*
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Post by legbamel on Jun 2, 2018 23:15:23 GMT
Third person omniscient can be difficult for me because I don't feel like you get a "voice" for your characters, you're the observer on the outside the whole time. I find it's much easier to write from one character's point of view at a time than it is to try and step back to a less personal viewpoint.
Keeping the voices distinct can be tough, though. You really have to have fleshed out your characters in your mind and remember what they know and where they were for various events.
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Jun 2, 2018 23:29:43 GMT
^^^ thoughtful response, thank you I used to start everything from third person omniscient. It became oddly limiting for me, I suppose because I am no Tolkien... I want to be reliable and it gets in the way of organic "discovery". If it is was easy, we'd all be doing it successfully I suppose Exactly. It gets in the way of organic discovery. That's a good way to put it. Personally, I've found I need a somewhat focused and narrow perspective to enjoy fiction. I don't really like reading G.R.R. Martin for instance. Not Steven Erikson either, though I can be very impressed by some passages that Erikson has written. It's still not enough. I need to engage in characters. I can handle multiple characters & perspectives, but like Jordan's WoT is on the limit of what I can muster interest in to keep reading. And that, transfers to how I write, as well. I try to tell the story through one or a few characters' personal perspective. Keeping it focused. But typically third person, but personal. Pretty much the exact same as first person, except it isn't. Another thing. Here's another good reason to sometimes use first person. If you want the narrator to hide something from the reader. Then the first person fits dishonesty better.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 4:20:04 GMT
Ugh not sure what I hate more about writing, coming up with titles for stories or names for characters. And I need to do both. I have had in the back of my mind for quite some time while I've been writing The Time Displaced Sith of telling Nathrrya's misadventures through SWTOR. To that end I need to come up with a good title that hasn't been used before and nothing comes to mind... ugh... Second I need two good names for the female shuttle pilot and male trooper that are Nathrrya's escorts to Korriban as they will be recurring charters though how often they appear is another matter. I know the female pilot is going to have the first name Qi'ra no surprise where I got that name from...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 4:32:12 GMT
Ugh not sure what I hate more about writing, coming up with titles for stories or names for characters. And I need to do both. For me, it's just coming up with the story to begin with, lol.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 4:40:41 GMT
Ugh not sure what I hate more about writing, coming up with titles for stories or names for characters. And I need to do both. For me, it's just coming up with the story to begin with, lol. I have the opposite problem, I can come up with story ideas more or less easily, getting them out of my head is the hard part.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 4:48:18 GMT
For me, it's just coming up with the story to begin with, lol. I have the opposite problem, I can come up with story ideas more or less easily, getting them out of my head is the hard part. The problem with me is that it's hard to come up with a plot and make it long too. All I write now is about 1,000 words per page because it's an AU and such things are hard... to write you know.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2018 7:56:37 GMT
ha I wish I could answer reviews on Fanfiction.org I really wish I could...
because it was so stupid... THE REASON WHY THEY LOST THEIR HEADS WAS BECAUSE OF LYANNA AND RHAEGAR RUNNING OFF AND GETTING MARRIED... BOI, it wasn't Robert's fault they did that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2018 10:18:18 GMT
deleted my fanfic EDIT: and am rly sry 4 drama.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2018 10:38:55 GMT
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Post by Pearl on Jun 19, 2018 8:01:41 GMT
It boggles my mind that there are writers out there on FF/AO3 who can consistently pump out multiple 15k+ word updates per month while not falling into the inane psychobabble territory. Some of them can even do it on a weekly basis, which is even more dumbfounding - I don't think I could manage that without a copious amount of energy drinks and possibly some cocaine.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 8:03:21 GMT
It boggles my dick that there are writers out there on FF/AO3 who can consistently pump out multiple 15k+ word updates per month while not falling into the inane psychobabble territory. Some of them can even do it on a weekly basis, which is even more dumbfounding - I don't think I could manage that without a copious amount of energy drinks and possibly some cocaine. holy shit, I could never write 15,000 words per session without breaking down in tears and not writing again for several days.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 8:12:34 GMT
I think my longest chapter so far was 7,271 words. I usually average between 3,000 and 4,000 words but my last two have been nudging 6,000 words.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Jun 19, 2018 12:16:22 GMT
The most for me is 10k. I ended up being annoyed by it because I prefer chapters to be uniformly consistent in number of words. I left the chapters as they are because it's too much work trying to even them up.
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Jun 23, 2018 20:21:45 GMT
I have recently begun my fifth novel. Observe that none of them is finished, and two of them are only in planning stage. I do not get to write much, I work too much. I intend to quit my job, but not now. I have projects at my job I want to finish. I don't see anybody else being able to. I simply can't leave those things. It would result in a severe feeling of unfulfillment. So, maybe 1½ year more, then I'll write full time. Economically, I think I'm in the clear, set for life. I should have nothing to worry about, even if I'm never published. So this is what I have in the works:
1. Fairly standard Wheel-of-Time/Sword-of-Truth type of fantasy. I've written about 1000 pages, but intend to rewrite a lot of it (because I've become better). A difference to most standard Fantasy is that Magic is rare, mostly fairly weak and very technical, in the sense that it requires vast amounts of detailed knowledge and lots of detailed training. It takes acquired skill and knowledge. Though only gifted people can do it, it's still very hard, technically hard to do and does not come natural to any individual. No Harry Potter magic where the chosen can suddenly just do it and release his "power" without knowing how. In my novel it doesn't work like that. Protagonist characters are a group of three very old mercenaries, three young students of magic and a very mysterious person, formerly a revived old mummy, found entombed in an underground prison. World is two parts, both still recovering/rebuilding from two different massive wars just a century ago or so. In the north, a collection of newformed kingdoms, the war has resulted in a sort of social enlightenment. Class structures and religions have been wrecked, and though they are being gradually rebuilt, the value system is leaning towards something we recognize in our modern west, even though it's a feudal world. In the south, the development is different. The class system is as present as always, but its power is strongly threatened by a totalitarian religion which dominate the society. I'm hoping to weave in a lot of stories I've had in my mind for years and years. But I've also noticed that the story takes on a new life of its own, and goes its own way.
2.SF space opera. The civilizations, their history and technology mostly took form in my head long before I had read my first 'Culture' novel. But 'Culture' have made a strong impact and influenced many things strongly. I've kept the technology level at a much lower level though, more technically understandable from our own perspective. I have written about 200 pages sofar. The main story is that a number of large human or human-derived star empires are threatened by encountering the expansion of a vast, aggressive alien empire. So there is an interstellar political game about what to do about it. Paradoxically, most of the main plot will take place on a rural, fairly recently colonized agriculture planet, where people's' lives are rather lowtech. So, in a way, not so much SF as pioneer & settler culture there.
3. A Thriller/Action/Crime story. I've written about 40 pages, all of which I intend to rewrite, if I bother to continue with this at all. Right now I'm not so enthusiastic about this. A problem here is that I don't really have a story. It originated entirely as an idea about the protagonist and hasn't progressed from that seed. The protagonist doesn't really have any investigative skills. The protagonist is a national executioner. An assassin that inserts into FBI under the pretext of being temporarily attached from SS/Treasure Department. But that was not entirely true. The protagonist was only temporarily attached to SS from CIA. But that's not true either. The protagonist was only temporarily attached to CIA from SAD. But that's not true either. The protagonist was only temporarily attached to SAD from CH. And CH is so secret that it sort of doesn't exist. It sort of "steals" its budget for instance, and doesn't answer to anything but the spirit of the Constitution.
4. A Mystery/Crime story. This is in planning, and I hope to plan it out fairly well before i start to write. A change in the way I've previously worked. A woman with a dark past, drug addict, prostitute, porn actress, magicians assistant, is "between jobs" but solvent, when she comes across the news that a former boyfriend and magician has disappeared in Las Vegas. She decides to go to Vegas to try to find out what has happened to him. Now, everything is not what it seems, about this marked, dark minded woman. This is pretty much what I'm most enthusiastic about currently, though I mostly work on the SF.
5. My last idea. A sort of Fantasy without magic. Of course the idea of 'magic' exists, this is a medieval, superstitious culture. But it's not real, just tricks. Just a concept sofar.
P.S. *6* I hope to write a Culture novel one day, if I get a good idea, and I'm starting to study for it.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 24, 2018 21:24:12 GMT
So it has been a while since I have posted in here, my appologies. My second book continues to go rather well, it is now officially the longest thing I have ever written, if its the best then I hope it will be...
Anyways I also discovered, much to my surprise, that Fanfiction.net has an ap. And not only that but the ap actually remembers where you left off. After I get through with reading through some of my old stuff, and being rather horrified at what a shitty writer I was (thanks fiancee for helping me edit stuff better), I may actually be able to finally getting to read some of your guys's stuff like I have been meaning to do. When I can of course.
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Post by Verfallen on Jun 25, 2018 2:02:55 GMT
I've also been absent from posting here for a long while, but thought I'd check in. I've finished the novel I hope to publish (dark fantasy, clocking in at about 124K), and it's in second edits/beta reading now. In the meantime, if anyone here is interested in DA fanfiction, I've got an ongoing series titled The Contours of Shadows on AO3. Some are fairly short, some novel-length, and most can be read as stand-alones. (As an introductory example, I'd recommend A Night On the Town.) Feedback is always appreciated!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2018 21:07:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2018 3:57:47 GMT
Started to re post an old NWN2 fic of mine, The Knight Captain's Rogue. Going to take me a while to re upload all 48 chapters.... www.fanfiction.net/s/12987818/1/
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Jul 5, 2018 19:07:17 GMT
Couple of thoughts - or subjects - that I invite comments on.
I've recently read a couple of books that tell a lot of the story, I mean a really lot, with dialogue. It's like pages and pages of dialogue with just short narratives between. I don't do it like that at all. But reading it causes me to question if I need more dialogue.
And then killing characters. This has always been a problem for me. I'm currently writing a SF novel where the basic loose plan was to cruelly kill off some of the very established characters around the protagonist towards the end. This to create the setup for the end, which is a sort of reverse, double subverting expectations. But then something happens which also happened when I was writing on my Fantasy novel. I don't have the heart to kill them. I have become too fond of the characters. Also, I have envisioned a different ending. Much different. But will people want to read such a 'cute' story? A variation of that is something that also happened in my Fantasy work: The villain, at least intended to be one of the main villains, became more and more sympathetic and understandable. I did kill him off (might change that), but made him an hero instead, dying an hero.
I have kinda kicked myself in the ass for these weaknesses, "just toughen up and kill them". But then I read the transcript of what George Lucas said regarding Star Wars to Kasdan. And I thought to myself: - Ha! That's how I feel too. Maybe it's not so wrong. Maybe...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2018 3:49:57 GMT
I think I have a title for Nat's SWTOR story... The Time Displaced Sith: Origins Totally ripping off the game Dragon Age: Origins
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 5:01:01 GMT
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