Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,516 Likes: 2,607
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Uncle Cyan
5620
0
Nov 17, 2024 18:04:04 GMT
2,607
Cyan_Griffonclaw
Dang it.
2,516
March 2017
griffonclaw39
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
griffonclaw39
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jul 20, 2017 11:00:58 GMT
What did the fans expect though? I wasn't 'there' when the game released and everyone was losing their shit, but from what I have gathered people seemed to think we'd get somekind of conventional victory and everybody would be happy afterwards, but I don't see how that logically follows from ME1 and ME2 where it became absolutely obvious that the Reapers were invincible space Cthulhu's with a flawless win-loss sheet. edit: though I should probably leave ME2 out of there, because what the hell was that game even about? I've played all of BioWare games at launch, but because of my OCD, I finish the game much later than the rest of the world. Here is my complaint/criticism on the whole ME Trilogy ending: In the first installment, you knew the Reapers were a superior technological race of sentient machine/hybrids that have a mission every 50k years to reduce the number of technological advanced organic races. However, you learn from Sovereign that he's just one of these super devils. He's actually just the gatekeeper to an army of these Reapers "sleeping" in dark space. In the end, you defeat Sovereign and the Reapers in dead space are not alerted. That's all elementary, but at this point, the rest of the universe thinks that the Reapers can be defeated if you throw enough ordinance at them. Sovereign is just one... and it took out a significant portion of the Alliance navy. In the second installment, you discover Harbinger and realize that this Reaper is army is too big to defeat conventionally, but there is hope since the Reapers are not immune to superior firepower. That's the key for me. Yes, this war can be fought and won IF the council races like the Turians Navy, Krogan Ground Forces, Salarian Special Tactics and Asari Commandos combine with the Alliance Navy. I believed this to be true, but it's a long shot and the losses would be dramatic. It would be enough that some species are going to exhaust themselves into extinction. Again, this is my perspective. In the third installment, the gathering of forces is real. The story will not progress without it either. Yes, Admiral Hackett believes that a conventional war isn't going to work because the enemy has very few weakness and it's most powerful weapon is something that can't be countered: Indoctrination. So, the crucible emerges. You're collecting all these war assets to pad your numbers for the big showdown: Get the crucible in place and activate it before the Reapers can destroy it or find a way to counter it. Those war assets that my OCD demanded that I get every last one (my war assets total in my last run was 8360). On Thessia, the last part of the Crucible is robbed by Kai Leng and given to the Illusive Man. The Illusive Man believes he can control the Reapers without the aid of the Crucible, but how? That's not explained. Instead we're standing on the Citadel (which was moved to Earth? Why? Tactically that makes no sense especially if TIM told the Reapers about the Crucible in the first place. Very confusing and okay... going to say it, f***ing stupid. The whole conventional war tactics is now the only option in my opinion. You need to deliver the Crucible and fight your way through Reapers to attach it to the Citadel (the catalyst). However, Hudson and Walters jerked us hard to port and this starchild hologram thing appears as you're about to expire... No. Just no. Stupid. Dumb. Inconsistent. And honestly... a betrayal to your pick-a-path adventure that was supposed to have a tailored ending (like every BioWare title before it) instead of the RGB crap we got. Also, sacrifice doesn't mean giving your life to save the galaxy. Tell that to the Turians fighting on Palaven or the Asari on Thessia. The whole ending with the SR-2 crash landing on a planet has no meaning to me whatsoever. It's out of context and it just fuels my speculation that the ending was cobbled together to make a deadline. If Leviathan had been part of the ending, it would've made a lot more sense, but what about the war assets? Meaningless in the end. A waste of time unless you want to see Shepard exhale on a broken Citadel platform. So, yeah Psychovere... there is still plenty of frustration over the issues that I bolded. To me, this whole scenario was going to be an epic battle between the Milky Way residents (organic and synthetic) against the Reapers. The Reapers had no allies by the time that final battle is reached so there is a slim, but very real chance of winning. I fully expected to see the Geth and the Turians leading the naval ships while the Humans and Quarians protected the Crucible. The Krogan were the catalyst in my opinion. Without them, the whole alliance initiative is dead. Thus curing the genophage was not only moral, but essential. I don't know... the last 15 minutes make me want to march Hudson and Walters into a room and have Drew Karpyshyn show them how to do it. I know that sounds very conscending... because it is. Five years and I can't let go. No... no... no.... (play dramatic music)
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jaegerbane
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: JaegerBane
PSN: JaegerBane
Posts: 582 Likes: 1,110
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Aug 11, 2017 17:15:47 GMT
1,110
jaegerbane
582
June 2017
jaegerbane
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
JaegerBane
JaegerBane
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Post by jaegerbane on Jul 20, 2017 12:05:22 GMT
According to the NASDAQ, EA's stock price has been steadily climbing for the last four years. Far from the sky is falling, they're doing well as a company. And that's with MEA apparently causing the Nile to turn to blood and reality imploding. People need to remember that the personal view of whichever outrage du jour does not translate into an overall measurable decline nor does the personal opinion of things like Origin, From Ashes or the ME3 endings actually mean anything in the grand scheme of things. The marketing department would like a word with you over the importance and meaning of Branding. To say what, exactly?
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Sondergaard
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
Posts: 572 Likes: 975
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Sept 27, 2024 16:57:55 GMT
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Sondergaard
572
Sept 8, 2016 21:17:59 GMT
September 2016
sondergaard
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
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Post by Sondergaard on Jul 20, 2017 12:15:31 GMT
What did the fans expect though? I wasn't 'there' when the game released and everyone was losing their shit, but from what I have gathered people seemed to think we'd get somekind of conventional victory and everybody would be happy afterwards, but I don't see how that logically follows from ME1 and ME2 where it became absolutely obvious that the Reapers were invincible space Cthulhu's with a flawless win-loss sheet. edit: though I should probably leave ME2 out of there, because what the hell was that game even about? I've mentioned this elsewhere but I'll say it again... Fans wanted a well written ending where previous major decisions mattered. It wasn't how bleak the endings were that pissed most people off but how badly written they were. A 'happy ending' for many/most would have involved narrative consistency and choices that made sense within the game, not something apparently slapped on the end with no context. But anyone who criticizes the ending apparently only wanted happy clappy crap, which simply isn't true.
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Monica21
N3
Chaotic Good
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 586 Likes: 1,434
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Sept 16, 2021 21:34:12 GMT
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Monica21
Chaotic Good
586
Mar 17, 2017 19:49:37 GMT
March 2017
monica21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Monica21 on Jul 20, 2017 13:29:11 GMT
Also, it's never good to have negative gamer reactions to your flagship franchise make the IBT. Or Forbes, for that matter. Here's your Forbes article.
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Jan 16, 2020 14:58:38 GMT
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PillarBiter
2,366
January 2017
pillarbiter
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by PillarBiter on Jul 20, 2017 13:46:29 GMT
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LadyCass
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Prime Posts: 94
Prime Likes: 25
Posts: 51 Likes: 97
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97
LadyCass
51
August 2016
ladyfalcia
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
94
25
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Post by LadyCass on Jul 20, 2017 13:55:10 GMT
What did the fans expect though? I wasn't 'there' when the game released and everyone was losing their shit, but from what I have gathered people seemed to think we'd get somekind of conventional victory and everybody would be happy afterwards, but I don't see how that logically follows from ME1 and ME2 where it became absolutely obvious that the Reapers were invincible space Cthulhu's with a flawless win-loss sheet. edit: though I should probably leave ME2 out of there, because what the hell was that game even about? Personally I've always thought they would have been better served by an ending similar to the ending to Dragon Age Origins, with elements from the Suicide Mission. In DA:O's finale, you're fighting your way through a city full of enemies to try to get to the archdemon (a blighted dragon) and kill it. You are special because you're a Grey Warden and if you (or your Grey Warden companion) kill it, you win the war, the enemies flee, and the archdemon stays dead. So you need to be delivered to the center of the city. The entire game, much like ME3, was about gathering allies to your banner so they will fight for you, with some either/or/both scenarios. In this case however, for each circle of the city, you get to choose which allies you want to deploy onto the field. The enemy makeup changes in each section so there are some tactical decisions here too. The more allies you managed to gain, the more choice you have on what you can deploy. In the Suicide Mission, obviously, you also have assets, though they are single characters rather than groups, like in DA:O and ME3. Again, you get to choose which assets to deploy for what sections or roles and are rewarded or punished for paying attention to their strengths and putting in the extra work. Your mission in this case is to destroy the Collectors - the proto-Reaper comes as a complete surprise - so your actual goal is first rescue, and then sabotage (blow it all up!). Both of these scenarios are about delivering something (a Grey Warden, a lot of bombs) to the place they can stop the conflict and win the war. So, if we applied that thinking, then the Crucible becomes the package that needs delivering to the Citadel. The assets we can deploy are the fleets and land troops that we collected, and any upgrades that we managed to get for them. If the krogans have the upgrade for mounts, then at least some of them may be mounted and more dangerous for it. First question to ask is why we're involving the land troops at all, but that's because the Citadel arms are closed. We need to deliver a new package, anyone who can open the arms. It's going to be Shepard, but really it could be anyone who can press a button. The fights on the ground are similar to what we got but we get to choose what units we're deployed with and have some intelligence on what to expect. Those companions/characters who are not with Shepard will presumably join their associated units on the ground, Garrus with the Turians, Grunt with the krogans/his company, Wrex with the krogans, Jack with her biotics. Depending on how well you match up with the foes, some of them may die, I would expect. We saved or gathered their loyalty, we get to deploy them, even if its not actually Shepard making those calls (I don't think it is the Grey Warden in DA:O, it's more of a meta decision). This also gives you the opportunity to try to protect your favourites by not deploying them either with you or in the field. Very characterful. So, you finally get to the controls and open the Citadel arms. The fleets are trickier, I don't even know what the strengths and weaknesses of the fleets might be, and they're mostly engaged in the same task against the same enemy, getting the Crucible to the Citadel once the arms are open, and defending it until then. I could see some choices here but I'd honestly "play" as Admiral Hackett for this part, or let him do the best he can with the fleets he has available in a cinematic. Perhaps some fleets take heavy losses if you're low on numbers, maybe some odd fleets like the Elcor or Volus fleets have technology that lets them act as force multipliers for the effort (refueling, massive shields, repair). Whatever fleets end up on the vanguard are likely to get chewed up. Either way, the fleet manages to get the Crucible to the Citadel, with or without crippling casualties, and it links up, and goes off. And it evens the odds. Maybe it drops all the Reaper's shields or fries them half to death, leaving them crippled. Maybe it seeks out and destroys the AI in control of them which just so happens to reside in the Citadel, though it looks like an AI Reaper in this cinematic obviously, leaving them unable to communicate with each other and disorientated. Whatever happens, it suddenly makes the conventional method viable. Now, whatever fleets are left go to town, destroying Reapers as they gain the upper hand. Perhaps some escape if the fleets were devastated and have to be chased down later, meaning they lay waste in the interim. Perhaps instead they try to destroy the Crucible and the Citadel with it, with you on it, but a healthy fleet manages to intercept, meaning Shepard survives. Then, after the cinematics wind up, a funeral, or a party, with possibly missing members of your little family, the option to talk to them (like in DA:O and DA:I) before you go somewhere, to receive a medal or something from the Council, I don't know. I'd also have the memorial wall at the party. Obviously this party, depending on your choices, could be lively or rather... sparse. And then finally the traditional slideshow for every faction and character that you care about. This might go on for a while, if a lot of them are still alive!
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,290 Likes: 50,647
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402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,647
Iakus
21,290
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Jul 20, 2017 13:58:24 GMT
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,290 Likes: 50,647
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402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,647
Iakus
21,290
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Jul 20, 2017 14:00:02 GMT
What did the fans expect though? I wasn't 'there' when the game released and everyone was losing their shit, but from what I have gathered people seemed to think we'd get somekind of conventional victory and everybody would be happy afterwards, but I don't see how that logically follows from ME1 and ME2 where it became absolutely obvious that the Reapers were invincible space Cthulhu's with a flawless win-loss sheet. edit: though I should probably leave ME2 out of there, because what the hell was that game even about? Personally I've always thought they would have been better served by an ending similar to the ending to Dragon Age Origins, with elements from the Suicide Mission. In DA:O's finale, you're fighting your way through a city full of enemies to try to get to the archdemon (a blighted dragon) and kill it. You are special because you're a Grey Warden and if you (or your Grey Warden companion) kill it, you win the war, the enemies flee, and the archdemon stays dead. So you need to be delivered to the center of the city. The entire game, much like ME3, was about gathering allies to your banner so they will fight for you, with some either/or/both scenarios. In this case however, for each circle of the city, you get to choose which allies you want to deploy onto the field. The enemy makeup changes in each section so there are some tactical decisions here too. The more allies you managed to gain, the more choice you have on what you can deploy. In the Suicide Mission, obviously, you also have assets, though they are single characters rather than groups, like in DA:O and ME3. Again, you get to choose which assets to deploy for what sections or roles and are rewarded or punished for paying attention to their strengths and putting in the extra work. Your mission in this case is to destroy the Collectors - the proto-Reaper comes as a complete surprise - so your actual goal is first rescue, and then sabotage (blow it all up!). Both of these scenarios are about delivering something (a Grey Warden, a lot of bombs) to the place they can stop the conflict and win the war. So, if we applied that thinking, then the Crucible becomes the package that needs delivering to the Citadel. The assets we can deploy are the fleets and land troops that we collected, and any upgrades that we managed to get for them. If the krogans have the upgrade for mounts, then at least some of them may be mounted and more dangerous for it. First question to ask is why we're involving the land troops at all, but that's because the Citadel arms are closed. We need to deliver a new package, anyone who can open the arms. It's going to be Shepard, but really it could be anyone who can press a button. The fights on the ground are similar to what we got but we get to choose what units we're deployed with and have some intelligence on what to expect. Those companions/characters who are not with Shepard will presumably join their associated units on the ground, Garrus with the Turians, Grunt with the krogans/his company, Wrex with the krogans, Jack with her biotics. Depending on how well you match up with the foes, some of them may die, I would expect. We saved or gathered their loyalty, we get to deploy them, even if its not actually Shepard making those calls (I don't think it is the Grey Warden in DA:O, it's more of a meta decision). This also gives you the opportunity to try to protect your favourites by not deploying them either with you or in the field. Very characterful. So, you finally get to the controls and open the Citadel arms. The fleets are trickier, I don't even know what the strengths and weaknesses of the fleets might be, and they're mostly engaged in the same task against the same enemy, getting the Crucible to the Citadel once the arms are open, and defending it until then. I could see some choices here but I'd honestly "play" as Admiral Hackett for this part, or let him do the best he can with the fleets he has available in a cinematic. Perhaps some fleets take heavy losses if you're low on numbers, maybe some odd fleets like the Elcor or Volus fleets have technology that lets them act as force multipliers for the effort (refueling, massive shields, repair). Whatever fleets end up on the vanguard are likely to get chewed up. Either way, the fleet manages to get the Crucible to the Citadel, with or without crippling casualties, and it links up, and goes off. And it evens the odds. Maybe it drops all the Reaper's shields or fries them half to death, leaving them crippled. Maybe it seeks out and destroys the AI in control of them which just so happens to reside in the Citadel, though it looks like an AI Reaper in this cinematic obviously, leaving them unable to communicate with each other and disorientated. Whatever happens, it suddenly makes the conventional method viable. Now, whatever fleets are left go to town, destroying Reapers as they gain the upper hand. Perhaps some escape if the fleets were devastated and have to be chased down later, meaning they lay waste in the interim. Perhaps instead they try to destroy the Crucible and the Citadel with it, with you on it, but a healthy fleet manages to intercept, meaning Shepard survives. Then, after the cinematics wind up, a funeral, or a party, with possibly missing members of your little family, the option to talk to them (like in DA:O and DA:I) before you go somewhere, to receive a medal or something from the Council, I don't know. I'd also have the memorial wall at the party. Obviously this party, depending on your choices, could be lively or rather... sparse. And then finally the traditional slideshow for every faction and character that you care about. This might go on for a while, if a lot of them are still alive! Not artistic enough
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corsair
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 99 Likes: 171
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0
171
corsair
99
August 2016
corsair
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by corsair on Jul 20, 2017 14:01:25 GMT
What did the fans expect though? I wasn't 'there' when the game released and everyone was losing their shit, but from what I have gathered people seemed to think we'd get somekind of conventional victory and everybody would be happy afterwards, but I don't see how that logically follows from ME1 and ME2 where it became absolutely obvious that the Reapers were invincible space Cthulhu's with a flawless win-loss sheet. edit: though I should probably leave ME2 out of there, because what the hell was that game even about? Personally I've always thought they would have been better served by an ending similar to the ending to Dragon Age Origins, with elements from the Suicide Mission. In DA:O's finale, you're fighting your way through a city full of enemies to try to get to the archdemon (a blighted dragon) and kill it. You are special because you're a Grey Warden and if you (or your Grey Warden companion) kill it, you win the war, the enemies flee, and the archdemon stays dead. So you need to be delivered to the center of the city. The entire game, much like ME3, was about gathering allies to your banner so they will fight for you, with some either/or/both scenarios. In this case however, for each circle of the city, you get to choose which allies you want to deploy onto the field. The enemy makeup changes in each section so there are some tactical decisions here too. The more allies you managed to gain, the more choice you have on what you can deploy. In the Suicide Mission, obviously, you also have assets, though they are single characters rather than groups, like in DA:O and ME3. Again, you get to choose which assets to deploy for what sections or roles and are rewarded or punished for paying attention to their strengths and putting in the extra work. Your mission in this case is to destroy the Collectors - the proto-Reaper comes as a complete surprise - so your actual goal is first rescue, and then sabotage (blow it all up!). Both of these scenarios are about delivering something (a Grey Warden, a lot of bombs) to the place they can stop the conflict and win the war. So, if we applied that thinking, then the Crucible becomes the package that needs delivering to the Citadel. The assets we can deploy are the fleets and land troops that we collected, and any upgrades that we managed to get for them. If the krogans have the upgrade for mounts, then at least some of them may be mounted and more dangerous for it. First question to ask is why we're involving the land troops at all, but that's because the Citadel arms are closed. We need to deliver a new package, anyone who can open the arms. It's going to be Shepard, but really it could be anyone who can press a button. The fights on the ground are similar to what we got but we get to choose what units we're deployed with and have some intelligence on what to expect. Those companions/characters who are not with Shepard will presumably join their associated units on the ground, Garrus with the Turians, Grunt with the krogans/his company, Wrex with the krogans, Jack with her biotics. Depending on how well you match up with the foes, some of them may die, I would expect. We saved or gathered their loyalty, we get to deploy them, even if its not actually Shepard making those calls (I don't think it is the Grey Warden in DA:O, it's more of a meta decision). This also gives you the opportunity to try to protect your favourites by not deploying them either with you or in the field. Very characterful. So, you finally get to the controls and open the Citadel arms. The fleets are trickier, I don't even know what the strengths and weaknesses of the fleets might be, and they're mostly engaged in the same task against the same enemy, getting the Crucible to the Citadel once the arms are open, and defending it until then. I could see some choices here but I'd honestly "play" as Admiral Hackett for this part, or let him do the best he can with the fleets he has available in a cinematic. Perhaps some fleets take heavy losses if you're low on numbers, maybe some odd fleets like the Elcor or Volus fleets have technology that lets them act as force multipliers for the effort (refueling, massive shields, repair). Whatever fleets end up on the vanguard are likely to get chewed up. Either way, the fleet manages to get the Crucible to the Citadel, with or without crippling casualties, and it links up, and goes off. And it evens the odds. Maybe it drops all the Reaper's shields or fries them half to death, leaving them crippled. Maybe it seeks out and destroys the AI in control of them which just so happens to reside in the Citadel, though it looks like an AI Reaper in this cinematic obviously, leaving them unable to communicate with each other and disorientated. Whatever happens, it suddenly makes the conventional method viable. Now, whatever fleets are left go to town, destroying Reapers as they gain the upper hand. Perhaps some escape if the fleets were devastated and have to be chased down later, meaning they lay waste in the interim. Perhaps instead they try to destroy the Crucible and the Citadel with it, with you on it, but a healthy fleet manages to intercept, meaning Shepard survives. Then, after the cinematics wind up, a funeral, or a party, with possibly missing members of your little family, the option to talk to them (like in DA:O and DA:I) before you go somewhere, to receive a medal or something from the Council, I don't know. I'd also have the memorial wall at the party. Obviously this party, depending on your choices, could be lively or rather... sparse. And then finally the traditional slideshow for every faction and character that you care about. This might go on for a while, if a lot of them are still alive! Oh that would have been awesome!
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bfler
N1
Posts: 8 Likes: 5
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Sept 25, 2017 11:38:07 GMT
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8
Mar 19, 2017 14:12:12 GMT
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bfler
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Post by bfler on Jul 20, 2017 15:06:43 GMT
What did the fans expect though? I wasn't 'there' when the game released and everyone was losing their shit, but from what I have gathered people seemed to think we'd get somekind of conventional victory and everybody would be happy afterwards, but I don't see how that logically follows from ME1 and ME2 where it became absolutely obvious that the Reapers were invincible space Cthulhu's with a flawless win-loss sheet. edit: though I should probably leave ME2 out of there, because what the hell was that game even about? The Borg in Star Trek were also introduced as an unstoppable force in TNG. A single cube was able to destroy an entire fleet and then, at the end of Voyager, a simple virus and the Voyager, a single ship, more or less obliterated them.
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psychevore
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Psychevore on Jul 20, 2017 20:58:38 GMT
What did the fans expect though? I wasn't 'there' when the game released and everyone was losing their shit, but from what I have gathered people seemed to think we'd get somekind of conventional victory and everybody would be happy afterwards, but I don't see how that logically follows from ME1 and ME2 where it became absolutely obvious that the Reapers were invincible space Cthulhu's with a flawless win-loss sheet. edit: though I should probably leave ME2 out of there, because what the hell was that game even about? The Borg in Star Trek were also introduced as an unstoppable force in TNG. A single cube was able to destroy an entire fleet and then, at the end of Voyager, a simple virus and the Voyager, a single ship, more or less obliterated them. Yeah that's really great, but it would have rendered every galactic civilization before completely ridiculous and incompetent if they did something like that in ME. Countless cycles but no one found the Reaper kill tube? That would be so laughably stupid.
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psychevore
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Psychevore on Jul 20, 2017 21:02:23 GMT
What did the fans expect though? I wasn't 'there' when the game released and everyone was losing their shit, but from what I have gathered people seemed to think we'd get somekind of conventional victory and everybody would be happy afterwards, but I don't see how that logically follows from ME1 and ME2 where it became absolutely obvious that the Reapers were invincible space Cthulhu's with a flawless win-loss sheet. edit: though I should probably leave ME2 out of there, because what the hell was that game even about? Personally I've always thought they would have been better served by an ending similar to the ending to Dragon Age Origins, with elements from the Suicide Mission. In DA:O's finale, you're fighting your way through a city full of enemies to try to get to the archdemon (a blighted dragon) and kill it. You are special because you're a Grey Warden and if you (or your Grey Warden companion) kill it, you win the war, the enemies flee, and the archdemon stays dead. So you need to be delivered to the center of the city. The entire game, much like ME3, was about gathering allies to your banner so they will fight for you, with some either/or/both scenarios. In this case however, for each circle of the city, you get to choose which allies you want to deploy onto the field. The enemy makeup changes in each section so there are some tactical decisions here too. The more allies you managed to gain, the more choice you have on what you can deploy. In the Suicide Mission, obviously, you also have assets, though they are single characters rather than groups, like in DA:O and ME3. Again, you get to choose which assets to deploy for what sections or roles and are rewarded or punished for paying attention to their strengths and putting in the extra work. Your mission in this case is to destroy the Collectors - the proto-Reaper comes as a complete surprise - so your actual goal is first rescue, and then sabotage (blow it all up!). Both of these scenarios are about delivering something (a Grey Warden, a lot of bombs) to the place they can stop the conflict and win the war. So, if we applied that thinking, then the Crucible becomes the package that needs delivering to the Citadel. The assets we can deploy are the fleets and land troops that we collected, and any upgrades that we managed to get for them. If the krogans have the upgrade for mounts, then at least some of them may be mounted and more dangerous for it. First question to ask is why we're involving the land troops at all, but that's because the Citadel arms are closed. We need to deliver a new package, anyone who can open the arms. It's going to be Shepard, but really it could be anyone who can press a button. The fights on the ground are similar to what we got but we get to choose what units we're deployed with and have some intelligence on what to expect. Those companions/characters who are not with Shepard will presumably join their associated units on the ground, Garrus with the Turians, Grunt with the krogans/his company, Wrex with the krogans, Jack with her biotics. Depending on how well you match up with the foes, some of them may die, I would expect. We saved or gathered their loyalty, we get to deploy them, even if its not actually Shepard making those calls (I don't think it is the Grey Warden in DA:O, it's more of a meta decision). This also gives you the opportunity to try to protect your favourites by not deploying them either with you or in the field. Very characterful. So, you finally get to the controls and open the Citadel arms. The fleets are trickier, I don't even know what the strengths and weaknesses of the fleets might be, and they're mostly engaged in the same task against the same enemy, getting the Crucible to the Citadel once the arms are open, and defending it until then. I could see some choices here but I'd honestly "play" as Admiral Hackett for this part, or let him do the best he can with the fleets he has available in a cinematic. Perhaps some fleets take heavy losses if you're low on numbers, maybe some odd fleets like the Elcor or Volus fleets have technology that lets them act as force multipliers for the effort (refueling, massive shields, repair). Whatever fleets end up on the vanguard are likely to get chewed up. Either way, the fleet manages to get the Crucible to the Citadel, with or without crippling casualties, and it links up, and goes off. And it evens the odds. Maybe it drops all the Reaper's shields or fries them half to death, leaving them crippled. Maybe it seeks out and destroys the AI in control of them which just so happens to reside in the Citadel, though it looks like an AI Reaper in this cinematic obviously, leaving them unable to communicate with each other and disorientated. Whatever happens, it suddenly makes the conventional method viable. Now, whatever fleets are left go to town, destroying Reapers as they gain the upper hand. Perhaps some escape if the fleets were devastated and have to be chased down later, meaning they lay waste in the interim. Perhaps instead they try to destroy the Crucible and the Citadel with it, with you on it, but a healthy fleet manages to intercept, meaning Shepard survives. Then, after the cinematics wind up, a funeral, or a party, with possibly missing members of your little family, the option to talk to them (like in DA:O and DA:I) before you go somewhere, to receive a medal or something from the Council, I don't know. I'd also have the memorial wall at the party. Obviously this party, depending on your choices, could be lively or rather... sparse. And then finally the traditional slideshow for every faction and character that you care about. This might go on for a while, if a lot of them are still alive! This is good, but really not that far off from what we got. You're still using a super weapon to do some space magic against the space Cthulhu's.
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Post by Psychevore on Jul 20, 2017 21:05:15 GMT
What did the fans expect though? I wasn't 'there' when the game released and everyone was losing their shit, but from what I have gathered people seemed to think we'd get somekind of conventional victory and everybody would be happy afterwards, but I don't see how that logically follows from ME1 and ME2 where it became absolutely obvious that the Reapers were invincible space Cthulhu's with a flawless win-loss sheet. edit: though I should probably leave ME2 out of there, because what the hell was that game even about? I've mentioned this elsewhere but I'll say it again... Fans wanted a well written ending where previous major decisions mattered. It wasn't how bleak the endings were that pissed most people off but how badly written they were. A 'happy ending' for many/most would have involved narrative consistency and choices that made sense within the game, not something apparently slapped on the end with no context. But anyone who criticizes the ending apparently only wanted happy clappy crap, which simply isn't true. How would you have explained the Reapers in this? The Catalyst is absolutely vital to have the Reapers make sense, at all.(likewise, the Leviathan are needed to explain why the Catalyst exists, but I digress) Something I personally had been waiting for since ME1.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 20, 2017 21:07:04 GMT
Personally I've always thought they would have been better served by an ending similar to the ending to Dragon Age Origins, with elements from the Suicide Mission.
In DA:O's finale, you're fighting your way through a city full of enemies to try to get to the archdemon (a blighted dragon) and kill it. You are special because you're a Grey Warden and if you (or your Grey Warden companion) kill it, you win the war, the enemies flee, and the archdemon stays dead. So you need to be delivered to the center of the city. The entire game, much like ME3, was about gathering allies to your banner so they will fight for you, with some either/or/both scenarios. In this case however, for each circle of the city, you get to choose which allies you want to deploy onto the field. The enemy makeup changes in each section so there are some tactical decisions here too. The more allies you managed to gain, the more choice you have on what you can deploy.
In the Suicide Mission, obviously, you also have assets, though they are single characters rather than groups, like in DA:O and ME3. Again, you get to choose which assets to deploy for what sections or roles and are rewarded or punished for paying attention to their strengths and putting in the extra work. Your mission in this case is to destroy the Collectors - the proto-Reaper comes as a complete surprise - so your actual goal is first rescue, and then sabotage (blow it all up!).
Both of these scenarios are about delivering something (a Grey Warden, a lot of bombs) to the place they can stop the conflict and win the war.
So, if we applied that thinking, then the Crucible becomes the package that needs delivering to the Citadel. The assets we can deploy are the fleets and land troops that we collected, and any upgrades that we managed to get for them. If the krogans have the upgrade for mounts, then at least some of them may be mounted and more dangerous for it.
First question to ask is why we're involving the land troops at all, but that's because the Citadel arms are closed. We need to deliver a new package, anyone who can open the arms. It's going to be Shepard, but really it could be anyone who can press a button. The fights on the ground are similar to what we got but we get to choose what units we're deployed with and have some intelligence on what to expect. Those companions/characters who are not with Shepard will presumably join their associated units on the ground, Garrus with the Turians, Grunt with the krogans/his company, Wrex with the krogans, Jack with her biotics. Depending on how well you match up with the foes, some of them may die, I would expect. We saved or gathered their loyalty, we get to deploy them, even if its not actually Shepard making those calls (I don't think it is the Grey Warden in DA:O, it's more of a meta decision). This also gives you the opportunity to try to protect your favourites by not deploying them either with you or in the field. Very characterful. So, you finally get to the controls and open the Citadel arms.
The fleets are trickier, I don't even know what the strengths and weaknesses of the fleets might be, and they're mostly engaged in the same task against the same enemy, getting the Crucible to the Citadel once the arms are open, and defending it until then. I could see some choices here but I'd honestly "play" as Admiral Hackett for this part, or let him do the best he can with the fleets he has available in a cinematic. Perhaps some fleets take heavy losses if you're low on numbers, maybe some odd fleets like the Elcor or Volus fleets have technology that lets them act as force multipliers for the effort (refueling, massive shields, repair). Whatever fleets end up on the vanguard are likely to get chewed up. Either way, the fleet manages to get the Crucible to the Citadel, with or without crippling casualties, and it links up, and goes off.
And it evens the odds. Maybe it drops all the Reaper's shields or fries them half to death, leaving them crippled. Maybe it seeks out and destroys the AI in control of them which just so happens to reside in the Citadel, though it looks like an AI Reaper in this cinematic obviously, leaving them unable to communicate with each other and disorientated. Whatever happens, it suddenly makes the conventional method viable. Now, whatever fleets are left go to town, destroying Reapers as they gain the upper hand. Perhaps some escape if the fleets were devastated and have to be chased down later, meaning they lay waste in the interim. Perhaps instead they try to destroy the Crucible and the Citadel with it, with you on it, but a healthy fleet manages to intercept, meaning Shepard survives.
Then, after the cinematics wind up, a funeral, or a party, with possibly missing members of your little family, the option to talk to them (like in DA:O and DA:I) before you go somewhere, to receive a medal or something from the Council, I don't know. I'd also have the memorial wall at the party. Obviously this party, depending on your choices, could be lively or rather... sparse.
And then finally the traditional slideshow for every faction and character that you care about. This might go on for a while, if a lot of them are still alive! Why not just have Shepard learn that destroying Harbinger would cause the reapers to stop the harvest?
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Post by KaiserShep on Jul 20, 2017 21:22:06 GMT
Personally I've always thought they would have been better served by an ending similar to the ending to Dragon Age Origins, with elements from the Suicide Mission.
In DA:O's finale, you're fighting your way through a city full of enemies to try to get to the archdemon (a blighted dragon) and kill it. You are special because you're a Grey Warden and if you (or your Grey Warden companion) kill it, you win the war, the enemies flee, and the archdemon stays dead. So you need to be delivered to the center of the city. The entire game, much like ME3, was about gathering allies to your banner so they will fight for you, with some either/or/both scenarios. In this case however, for each circle of the city, you get to choose which allies you want to deploy onto the field. The enemy makeup changes in each section so there are some tactical decisions here too. The more allies you managed to gain, the more choice you have on what you can deploy.
In the Suicide Mission, obviously, you also have assets, though they are single characters rather than groups, like in DA:O and ME3. Again, you get to choose which assets to deploy for what sections or roles and are rewarded or punished for paying attention to their strengths and putting in the extra work. Your mission in this case is to destroy the Collectors - the proto-Reaper comes as a complete surprise - so your actual goal is first rescue, and then sabotage (blow it all up!).
Both of these scenarios are about delivering something (a Grey Warden, a lot of bombs) to the place they can stop the conflict and win the war.
So, if we applied that thinking, then the Crucible becomes the package that needs delivering to the Citadel. The assets we can deploy are the fleets and land troops that we collected, and any upgrades that we managed to get for them. If the krogans have the upgrade for mounts, then at least some of them may be mounted and more dangerous for it.
First question to ask is why we're involving the land troops at all, but that's because the Citadel arms are closed. We need to deliver a new package, anyone who can open the arms. It's going to be Shepard, but really it could be anyone who can press a button. The fights on the ground are similar to what we got but we get to choose what units we're deployed with and have some intelligence on what to expect. Those companions/characters who are not with Shepard will presumably join their associated units on the ground, Garrus with the Turians, Grunt with the krogans/his company, Wrex with the krogans, Jack with her biotics. Depending on how well you match up with the foes, some of them may die, I would expect. We saved or gathered their loyalty, we get to deploy them, even if its not actually Shepard making those calls (I don't think it is the Grey Warden in DA:O, it's more of a meta decision). This also gives you the opportunity to try to protect your favourites by not deploying them either with you or in the field. Very characterful. So, you finally get to the controls and open the Citadel arms.
The fleets are trickier, I don't even know what the strengths and weaknesses of the fleets might be, and they're mostly engaged in the same task against the same enemy, getting the Crucible to the Citadel once the arms are open, and defending it until then. I could see some choices here but I'd honestly "play" as Admiral Hackett for this part, or let him do the best he can with the fleets he has available in a cinematic. Perhaps some fleets take heavy losses if you're low on numbers, maybe some odd fleets like the Elcor or Volus fleets have technology that lets them act as force multipliers for the effort (refueling, massive shields, repair). Whatever fleets end up on the vanguard are likely to get chewed up. Either way, the fleet manages to get the Crucible to the Citadel, with or without crippling casualties, and it links up, and goes off.
And it evens the odds. Maybe it drops all the Reaper's shields or fries them half to death, leaving them crippled. Maybe it seeks out and destroys the AI in control of them which just so happens to reside in the Citadel, though it looks like an AI Reaper in this cinematic obviously, leaving them unable to communicate with each other and disorientated. Whatever happens, it suddenly makes the conventional method viable. Now, whatever fleets are left go to town, destroying Reapers as they gain the upper hand. Perhaps some escape if the fleets were devastated and have to be chased down later, meaning they lay waste in the interim. Perhaps instead they try to destroy the Crucible and the Citadel with it, with you on it, but a healthy fleet manages to intercept, meaning Shepard survives.
Then, after the cinematics wind up, a funeral, or a party, with possibly missing members of your little family, the option to talk to them (like in DA:O and DA:I) before you go somewhere, to receive a medal or something from the Council, I don't know. I'd also have the memorial wall at the party. Obviously this party, depending on your choices, could be lively or rather... sparse.
And then finally the traditional slideshow for every faction and character that you care about. This might go on for a while, if a lot of them are still alive! Why not just have Shepard learn that destroying Harbinger would cause the reapers to stop the harvest? I guess that would beg the nagging question of why it would bother taking care of matters personally along with the rest of the fleet, when it's been proven that even capital ships can be destroyed, and the Collectors prove that it can basically play puppeteer from beyond the galactic horizon.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,290 Likes: 50,647
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Post by Iakus on Jul 20, 2017 21:26:34 GMT
Personally I've always thought they would have been better served by an ending similar to the ending to Dragon Age Origins, with elements from the Suicide Mission.
In DA:O's finale, you're fighting your way through a city full of enemies to try to get to the archdemon (a blighted dragon) and kill it. You are special because you're a Grey Warden and if you (or your Grey Warden companion) kill it, you win the war, the enemies flee, and the archdemon stays dead. So you need to be delivered to the center of the city. The entire game, much like ME3, was about gathering allies to your banner so they will fight for you, with some either/or/both scenarios. In this case however, for each circle of the city, you get to choose which allies you want to deploy onto the field. The enemy makeup changes in each section so there are some tactical decisions here too. The more allies you managed to gain, the more choice you have on what you can deploy.
In the Suicide Mission, obviously, you also have assets, though they are single characters rather than groups, like in DA:O and ME3. Again, you get to choose which assets to deploy for what sections or roles and are rewarded or punished for paying attention to their strengths and putting in the extra work. Your mission in this case is to destroy the Collectors - the proto-Reaper comes as a complete surprise - so your actual goal is first rescue, and then sabotage (blow it all up!).
Both of these scenarios are about delivering something (a Grey Warden, a lot of bombs) to the place they can stop the conflict and win the war.
So, if we applied that thinking, then the Crucible becomes the package that needs delivering to the Citadel. The assets we can deploy are the fleets and land troops that we collected, and any upgrades that we managed to get for them. If the krogans have the upgrade for mounts, then at least some of them may be mounted and more dangerous for it.
First question to ask is why we're involving the land troops at all, but that's because the Citadel arms are closed. We need to deliver a new package, anyone who can open the arms. It's going to be Shepard, but really it could be anyone who can press a button. The fights on the ground are similar to what we got but we get to choose what units we're deployed with and have some intelligence on what to expect. Those companions/characters who are not with Shepard will presumably join their associated units on the ground, Garrus with the Turians, Grunt with the krogans/his company, Wrex with the krogans, Jack with her biotics. Depending on how well you match up with the foes, some of them may die, I would expect. We saved or gathered their loyalty, we get to deploy them, even if its not actually Shepard making those calls (I don't think it is the Grey Warden in DA:O, it's more of a meta decision). This also gives you the opportunity to try to protect your favourites by not deploying them either with you or in the field. Very characterful. So, you finally get to the controls and open the Citadel arms.
The fleets are trickier, I don't even know what the strengths and weaknesses of the fleets might be, and they're mostly engaged in the same task against the same enemy, getting the Crucible to the Citadel once the arms are open, and defending it until then. I could see some choices here but I'd honestly "play" as Admiral Hackett for this part, or let him do the best he can with the fleets he has available in a cinematic. Perhaps some fleets take heavy losses if you're low on numbers, maybe some odd fleets like the Elcor or Volus fleets have technology that lets them act as force multipliers for the effort (refueling, massive shields, repair). Whatever fleets end up on the vanguard are likely to get chewed up. Either way, the fleet manages to get the Crucible to the Citadel, with or without crippling casualties, and it links up, and goes off.
And it evens the odds. Maybe it drops all the Reaper's shields or fries them half to death, leaving them crippled. Maybe it seeks out and destroys the AI in control of them which just so happens to reside in the Citadel, though it looks like an AI Reaper in this cinematic obviously, leaving them unable to communicate with each other and disorientated. Whatever happens, it suddenly makes the conventional method viable. Now, whatever fleets are left go to town, destroying Reapers as they gain the upper hand. Perhaps some escape if the fleets were devastated and have to be chased down later, meaning they lay waste in the interim. Perhaps instead they try to destroy the Crucible and the Citadel with it, with you on it, but a healthy fleet manages to intercept, meaning Shepard survives.
Then, after the cinematics wind up, a funeral, or a party, with possibly missing members of your little family, the option to talk to them (like in DA:O and DA:I) before you go somewhere, to receive a medal or something from the Council, I don't know. I'd also have the memorial wall at the party. Obviously this party, depending on your choices, could be lively or rather... sparse.
And then finally the traditional slideshow for every faction and character that you care about. This might go on for a while, if a lot of them are still alive! Why not just have Shepard learn that destroying Harbinger would cause the reapers to stop the harvest? Because AIs are awesome. So awesome, in fact, that our puny organic minds cannot fathom the depth of their awesomeness. We need to be merged with them in order to become worthy of sharing in the awesome that is synthetic life.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
N7
GIF Addict
Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 13,331 Likes: 30,906
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Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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almostfaceman
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jul 20, 2017 21:36:29 GMT
While we're on the subject of the ending of the Trilogy, I still think it would have made far more sense if the middle games (ME2 changed, or keep ME2 and add an ME3 before the ME3 we have now) actually involved studying something like... say... the relay network or other ancient secrets of the Reapers and then the last game involved using that network/secrets to destroy the Reapers. No deus ex machina involved and that brings in some of the discovery and Indiana Jones vibe that's a good part of the Dragon Age series of games (slowly uncovering the lore, finding out what's true, false, etc).
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Post by themikefest on Jul 20, 2017 22:29:29 GMT
I guess that would beg the nagging question of why it would bother taking care of matters personally along with the rest of the fleet, when it's been proven that even capital ships can be destroyed, and the Collectors prove that it can basically play puppeteer from beyond the galactic horizon. The same could be said about dumb dumb when it says it preserves life in reaper form yet the reapers are put in harms way
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Post by themikefest on Jul 20, 2017 22:34:44 GMT
Harbinger is awesome. One of the best characters in the trilogy. But after playing ME2, I figured that Harbinger and Shepard would have some kind of confrontation in ME3. Not what is seen in ME3. I don't care about the merge crap.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,290 Likes: 50,647
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Post by Iakus on Jul 20, 2017 22:42:46 GMT
Harbinger is awesome. One of the best characters in the trilogy. But after playing ME2, I figured that Harbinger and Shepard would have some kind of confrontation in ME3. Not what is seen in ME3. I don't care about the merge crap. Then you don't understand Art and simply don't get it. It is inevitable, now that we know it is possible
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Post by themikefest on Jul 20, 2017 22:47:52 GMT
Then you don't understand Art and simply don't get it. It is inevitable, now that we know it is possible I don't care, and there's not enough time to explain
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Post by KaiserShep on Jul 20, 2017 23:02:54 GMT
I guess that would beg the nagging question of why it would bother taking care of matters personally along with the rest of the fleet, when it's been proven that even capital ships can be destroyed, and the Collectors prove that it can basically play puppeteer from beyond the galactic horizon. The same could be said about dumb dumb when it says it preserves life in reaper form yet the reapers are put in harms way Yeah, the reapas are pretty dumb.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Origin: Spectr61
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Post by Spectr61 on Jul 21, 2017 0:20:17 GMT
The marketing department would like a word with you over the importance and meaning of Branding. To say what, exactly? Do your own research on Branding, and whether or not, as you said, "personal views" or "personal opinions" don't matter.
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kino
N4
The path up and down are one and the same.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: kinom001
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Post by kino on Jul 21, 2017 0:24:47 GMT
While we're on the subject of the ending of the Trilogy, I still think it would have made far more sense if the middle games (ME2 changed, or keep ME2 and add an ME3 before the ME3 we have now) actually involved studying something like... say... the relay network or other ancient secrets of the Reapers and then the last game involved using that network/secrets to destroy the Reapers. No deus ex machina involved and that brings in some of the discovery and Indiana Jones vibe that's a good part of the Dragon Age series of games (slowly uncovering the lore, finding out what's true, false, etc). But mah endings!!! Actually, that sounds pretty cool. It is one thing I like about the DA series, though, truth be told, I don't have a dog in the fight about the ME3 endings. Itr didn't really bother me and I'm not so invested in them that I'm willing to argue for them.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 21, 2017 0:30:58 GMT
Well according to ign's click bait videos this means KOTOR3 can happen.... till you watch the video and realize they are talking out their ass.
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