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Post by colfoley on Jul 23, 2017 20:10:46 GMT
Is anyone surprised that Witcher fanboys will spout blatant lies about a BioWare game? The user you quoted owns MEA. His/her opinion is every bit as valid as yours. Your butthurt is amazing in scope. Except I do wonder how they get the 'MEAs side quests are ninety nine percent filer' from. Considering I barely did any of the tasks my first playthrough and had like a ninety four percent completion rate.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2017 20:13:55 GMT
Is anyone surprised that Witcher fanboys will spout blatant lies about a BioWare game? The user you quoted owns MEA. His/her opinion is every bit as valid as yours. Your butthurt is amazing in scope. Then... you should be able to list 198 side quests from ME:A that are just "boring, tedious, fetch quests." I honestly don't know how the poster who made that statement feels about TW3 and I'm sure they probably do own their copy of ME:A (and I would love to see far less hostility on these boards overall); however, the statement of the side quests in ME:A being 99% fetch quests is a blatant exaggeration/lie and, therefore, is not valid, period. I did agree with an earlier poster who merely said there were too many fetch quests, because there were a lot among the 60 Additional Tasks listed in the journal... but even among those Additional Tasks, there were quite a number that were far more elaborate and involved than the term "fetch" quest implies. Many of the remaining 141 side quests I listed were very involved, some as elaborate as the game's main missions.
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Post by jaegerbane on Jul 23, 2017 20:15:13 GMT
Given the praise ME2 in general gets, and the fact it is basically a bunch of side quests which the main plot gets in the way of, I often think that what people want from ME is just a load of character moments, main plot be damned. And given the state of the main plot in the MET I suspect I'm not far from the truth. Anyway, with that as a basis I would give it to ME3 as things like Leviathan are technically side quests. If MEA gets DLC of that quality then I'd revisit that position I think. The thought occurred to me to. Having said that, ME3 was basically a load of character moments merged into (IMHO) a very good main plot. The closest thing to loyalty quests in ME3 were certain main quests that happened to take place somewhere that meant something to the character in question. ME2 gets a bit of a free pass, tbh. It didn't need to introduce a universe, it didn't need to finish anything, all it needed to do be a bit badass and expand the universe by however much it felt like doing and it did that with it's loyalty quests and DLC. Without all that responsibility, no wonder the sidequests were awesome - all the effort that would normally go into the main campaign went into them. I just wish some of them were against Collectors.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 23, 2017 20:15:44 GMT
The user you quoted owns MEA. His/her opinion is every bit as valid as yours. Your butthurt is amazing in scope. Then... you should be able to list 198 side quests from ME:A that are just "boring, tedious, fetch quests." I honestly don't know how the poster who made that statement feels about TW3 and I'm sure they probably do own their copy of ME:A (and I would love to see far less hostility on these boards overall); however, the statement of the side quests in ME:A being 99% fetch quests is a blatant exaggeration/lie and, therefore, is not valid, period. I did agree with an earlier poster who merely said there were too many fetch quests, because there were a lot among the 60 Additional Tasks listed in the journal... but even among those Additional Tasks, there were quite a number that were far more elaborate and involved than the term "fetch" quest implies. Many of the remaining 141 side quests I listed were very involved, some as elaborate as the game's main missions. And even the not so elaborate ones sometimes punched a certain amount of emotional wight. Sleeping Dragons is only about 10 minutes long, but man its probably the best 'side quest' in a BioWare game...ever.
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Post by MarilynRobert on Jul 23, 2017 20:31:30 GMT
I bought and played MET for the first time ever, Jan of this year. I played both F and M Shepard so I played all three games twice...the games run together in my head so it's hard for me to separate them, since I played them in such a short time (had to be ready for MEA) I do know that I got tired of all those quests at the Citadel, esp when you often had to be sure you heard someone say something before the quest triggered. I think I can handle the quests better in MEA, except for the fact that the log for them seems to be a big unorganized mess, IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2017 20:31:43 GMT
Then... you should be able to list 198 side quests from ME:A that are just "boring, tedious, fetch quests." I honestly don't know how the poster who made that statement feels about TW3 and I'm sure they probably do own their copy of ME:A (and I would love to see far less hostility on these boards overall); however, the statement of the side quests in ME:A being 99% fetch quests is a blatant exaggeration/lie and, therefore, is not valid, period. I did agree with an earlier poster who merely said there were too many fetch quests, because there were a lot among the 60 Additional Tasks listed in the journal... but even among those Additional Tasks, there were quite a number that were far more elaborate and involved than the term "fetch" quest implies. Many of the remaining 141 side quests I listed were very involved, some as elaborate as the game's main missions. And even the not so elaborate ones sometimes punched a certain amount of emotional wight. Sleeping Dragons is only about 10 minutes long, but man its probably the best 'side quest' in a BioWare game...ever. I agree... one thing, I think, Bioware did improve on was how some of their "Additional Task" level quests connected to the main story and to each other so that the little bits and pieces could build into something more meaningful. It's something taken right from TW3. The open world did/can diminish some of these in both games, depending on the order the player acquires them; but the overall idea is, IMO, actually executed a little better in ME:A than TW3. (I do realize there are a lot of people bound to disagree with me on that)... but anyway, getting back to ME:A.... Still, IMO, Bioware would have done better to just eliminate about 1/2 the additional tasks. The first to go, IMO, would be the ones that asked the player just to scan a certain number of rocks, plants, wildlife and enemies. I would leave in Naming the Dead, though, which leads through to Doesn't Add Up... both of which can add a lot of impact towards understanding what went wrong at Sites 1 and 2.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 23, 2017 20:35:35 GMT
And even the not so elaborate ones sometimes punched a certain amount of emotional wight. Sleeping Dragons is only about 10 minutes long, but man its probably the best 'side quest' in a BioWare game...ever. I agree... one thing, I think, Bioware did improve on was how some of their "Additional Task" level quests connected to the main story and to each other so that the little bits and pieces could build into something more meaningful. It's something taken right from TW3. The open world did/can diminish some of these in both games, depending on the order the player acquires them; but the overall idea is, IMO, actually executed a little better in ME:A than TW3. (I do realize there are a lot of people bound to disagree with me on that)... but anyway, getting back to ME:A.... Still, IMO, Bioware would have done better to just eliminate about 1/2 the additional tasks. The first to go, IMO, would be the ones that asked the player just to scan a certain number of rocks, plants, wildlife and enemies. I would leave in Naming the Dead, though, which leads through to Doesn't Add Up... both of which can add a lot of impact towards understanding what went wrong at Sites 1 and 2. I've never done naming the dead.
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Post by abaris on Jul 23, 2017 20:41:05 GMT
Sure; but then it puts criticism of a poor ME:A main plot into perspective. I guess if you don;t like the companions in ME:A it puts more of a burden on the companions. I don't expect Pulitzer material from any game story. But the companions in MEA didn't live up to previous games. Personally I feel it should be obvious to anyone having played all 4 games, but obviously that's down to tastes.
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Post by vonuber on Jul 23, 2017 20:53:09 GMT
Sure; but then it puts criticism of a poor ME:A main plot into perspective. I guess if you don;t like the companions in ME:A it puts more of a burden on the companions. I don't expect Pulitzer material from any game story. But the companions in MEA didn't live up to previous games. Personally I feel it should be obvious to anyone having played all 4 games, but obviously that's down to tastes. True, it is. I for example thought Zaeed was abysmal, and Garrus pretty meh. Others think they are the second coming. And that's before we even begin to discuss permanently radioactive kaidan. The same applies to ME:A, which at present has far fewer companions than MET and so an increased chance of not liking any of them.
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Post by abaris on Jul 23, 2017 21:00:27 GMT
True, it is. I for example thought Zaeed was abysmal, and Garrus pretty meh. Others think they are the second coming. And that's before we even begin to discuss permanently radioactive kaidan. The same applies to ME:A, which at present has far fewer companions than MET and so an increased chance of not liking any of them. MEA has about the same number of companions ME1 had, but I feel like only Kaidan was a douche. I always left him on Virmire.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2017 21:04:39 GMT
I agree... one thing, I think, Bioware did improve on was how some of their "Additional Task" level quests connected to the main story and to each other so that the little bits and pieces could build into something more meaningful. It's something taken right from TW3. The open world did/can diminish some of these in both games, depending on the order the player acquires them; but the overall idea is, IMO, actually executed a little better in ME:A than TW3. (I do realize there are a lot of people bound to disagree with me on that)... but anyway, getting back to ME:A.... Still, IMO, Bioware would have done better to just eliminate about 1/2 the additional tasks. The first to go, IMO, would be the ones that asked the player just to scan a certain number of rocks, plants, wildlife and enemies. I would leave in Naming the Dead, though, which leads through to Doesn't Add Up... both of which can add a lot of impact towards understanding what went wrong at Sites 1 and 2. I've never done naming the dead. The effect of it accumulates on you as you discover each body and read the scan data about how they died and give Lexi the name of each. After you complete it and after you set the outpost, there's a guy there that will give you another quest... thanking you for gathering the names but also noting that there are still a number of people missing (it Doesn't Add Up), which leads to tracking the path of the one shuttle as it picked up people and eventually escaped Eos... through to the system where you eventually find the shuttle. I'm not sure if you can do "Doesn't Add Up" without having done "Naming the Dead" - but the two do work together very well.
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Post by _Wolf Rider_ on Jul 23, 2017 21:15:18 GMT
I agree... one thing, I think, Bioware did improve on was how some of their "Additional Task" level quests connected to the main story and to each other so that the little bits and pieces could build into something more meaningful. It's something taken right from TW3. The open world did/can diminish some of these in both games, depending on the order the player acquires them; but the overall idea is, IMO, actually executed a little better in ME:A than TW3. (I do realize there are a lot of people bound to disagree with me on that)... but anyway, getting back to ME:A.... Still, IMO, Bioware would have done better to just eliminate about 1/2 the additional tasks. The first to go, IMO, would be the ones that asked the player just to scan a certain number of rocks, plants, wildlife and enemies. I would leave in Naming the Dead, though, which leads through to Doesn't Add Up... both of which can add a lot of impact towards understanding what went wrong at Sites 1 and 2. I've never done naming the dead.
I also never finished Naming the Dead. It was mainly cause I never could find all the bodies (I did found some, but not all of them), plus I did not want to go through
the trouble of trying to search for them all. I'm finally planning to finish said quest (also along with the quest, Doesn't Add Up) in a new playthrough that I just started.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2017 21:25:36 GMT
True, it is. I for example thought Zaeed was abysmal, and Garrus pretty meh. Others think they are the second coming. And that's before we even begin to discuss permanently radioactive kaidan. The same applies to ME:A, which at present has far fewer companions than MET and so an increased chance of not liking any of them. MEA has about the same number of companions ME1 had, but I feel like only Kaidan was a douche. I always left him on Virmire. I found Tali very one-dimensional in ME1... basically just an info-dumpster on her government and the pilgrimage with a vague gripe about her dad. It wasn't until ME2 that she was given some real personality... and even then, she's no where near as interesting and rounded a character as PeeBee or Cora. Vetra has far more depth to her character than Garrus ever got in ME1. Again, it was ME2 where he was finally given some personality. I'm not sure where how you can say that ME:A and ME1 had about the same number of companions. ME1 Companions - Kaidan, Ashley, Garrus, Wrex, Tali, and Liara. Only Wrex and Garrus really had a loyalty mission with conversation that changed if you took them, but you didn't even have to take them on those missions). Tali - you got to give her some data. Minor Crew - Joker (pretty much one conversation and then one comment after each mission); Presley (one conversation and 2 one-liner comments), Dr. Chakwas (one conversation) ME:A: Liam, Cora, Vetra, PeeBee, Drack, and Jaal (same count for squad mates, but much more conversation, banter and multi-part loyalty mission. For example, Cora's takes you first to Eos, then Voeld, and then to the Asari Ark. PeeBee's takes you first to Voeld, then Kardara and Elaaden, and into a volcano on a separate planet. You also can talk with them on the Nexus and in Kadara Port. Now lets go to crew: In addition to many after-mission conversations - Gil and Suvi are both romance-able, Kallo (has a mini-task regarding his fighting with Gil and also partakes in another mini-task on the ship that also involves Suvi), Lexi (is involved in a couple of different tasks over the comms and you do eventually meet up with her in the bar on the Nexus). They also talk to each other regularly on the ship. Now lets talk about planetside allies - Reyes (romance-able), Keri (romance-able - fling), Avela (romance-able - fling), Bradley - mayor of Eos (becomes involved in a later mission).. and a whole host of otherrs too numerous to start naming. i had more in-depth conversations with Addison than I did with Anderson in ME1. ME:A has way, way more than ME1 in the way of characters and more in-depth character development.
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Post by malgus on Jul 23, 2017 22:06:26 GMT
Well, first: Like I said, as the Collectors live in a cluster that cannot be accessed unless you use the Omega 4 Relay, it's understandable why there are not many "main quests" against them. There are not many ways to fight them on our own territory. It doesn't matter if it makes a "big" difference. Not every game will be about "saving the entire galaxy". Mass Effect 1 was already about that, if ME2 and ME3 were both about saving the galaxy on a massive war, it would become pretty dull. It never is stated that the Collectors would attack Earth, that is a logic conclusions the companions make by seeing how many pods they had, stating that "they could abduct every citizen on the Terminus Systems and not have enough to fill the pods", which means they would probably want to abduct all of them first. If they went right to Earth, then the entire galaxy would unite and the Collectors alone wouldn't stand a chance. Here I'm going to repeat myself: If every Mass Effect of the trilogy was a war against saving the entire galaxy, it would have been pretty dull. So ME2 was a good "in-between" of the two big wars we had in ME1 and ME3. I did not argue about the fact that its hard to find the real physical collectors because they are hidden, what I am saying is its a bad decision that only 3 mission is actually against fighting reapers (fighting collectors is the same because are their foot soldiers). It could have been interesting if they had some kind of indoctrinated agents all over the galaxy that are not only trying to hide collector activites but actually sabotage any defense from the milky way races before the arrival of their masters, so we had to kill them before the reapers comes because when they will be in the milky way, we would need to be at full force. They were so many possibilities to advance the main plot in this instalments that could have been something else than fighting collectors on foot face to face. This is not only about them, its the fact that the main story was not advancing. And YES it fucking matters that the suicide mission does not advance one bit in the end, oh My god it does. When they hyped us one year before launch how important this mission is how we are suppose to prepare all of the freaking game for doing this mission and in the end its just a sabotage mission. The game itself was great but the main plot was a fucking massive dissapointments because it brought barely anything, when I fnished it I was thinking"OK it was fun but why did we waited 3 years for barely any advancements in the main plot? Why was that suicide mission important?". I had to wait 2 more years to finally get the sequel to the plot with mass effect 3, And I never said that the collectors would attack earth by themselves, I am saying the reaper would have attacked it anyway and would have made a human reaper no matter what we did. All we did by destroying the human reapers was to delay his creation, the other reapers would have still needed to came on earth to finish the job and get enough human to create one of their own, instead of using more colonist they are just using used more humans on earths. Actually the operation makes so little difference in the wars to come that its arguably not a great decision to attack the collectors in their base. Because its destruction would barely inconvenience the reapers, BUT doing this mission is at the risk of losing powerful companion that will be very important for the war to come. The benefits of suceeding brings nearly nothing, but what we have to risk to suceed, that is valuable. The collector base is an outpost and nothing more for the invaders. And NO It would not have been dull, not one bit if it was about saving the galaxy again. Does the lord of the the ring trilogy is dull because each installement is always about saving middle earth from Sauron and his servants? no its not. All of the 3 instalments brings something to the main plots. Not something mass effect 2 did, ME 2 would have been good as an expansion not as a seuqle No full fledge game should be an episode 1.5 unless there was something bigger in it.
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Post by ross42899 on Jul 23, 2017 23:14:54 GMT
I like MEA for the most part. However my only real complaint about MEA would be the majority of the sidequests. I liked the main story missions and the crew & companion related missions, but many of the minor sidequest felt boring and unimportant and distracted me from the more major quests. There were a few good sidequest like the firefighter questline but many unmemorable ones too which didn't add much. Would have prefered less minor sidequests with better quality(more impact on overall plot/more exciting quests)
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Post by q5tyhj on Jul 23, 2017 23:16:07 GMT
No, MEA side-quests were mostly pretty awful
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Post by abaris on Jul 23, 2017 23:26:48 GMT
No, MEA side-quests were mostly pretty awful Not better or worse like most game's sidequests. But that's already a very low bar. Most games today have an inbuilt FedEx simulator. Without even paying the minimum wage. The most memorable sidequest of Andromeda may be Contagion. Not because it's that good, but because it's that bad. Scanfest royal over several systems.
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Post by warrior on Jul 23, 2017 23:45:57 GMT
Y'all ME2 is the best, stop shitting on it. All of it is basically perfect. Except for the drink animation in my avatar, which is maybe still perfect in its own way.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2017 23:46:30 GMT
No, MEA side-quests were mostly pretty awful Not better or worse like most game's sidequests. But that's already a very low bar. Most games today have an inbuilt FedEx simulator. Without even paying the minimum wage. The most memorable sidequest of Andromeda may be Contagion. Not because it's that good, but because it's that bad. Scanfest royal over several systems. What do you think about the main quests?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2017 23:48:17 GMT
Y'all ME2 is the best, stop shitting on it. All of it is basically perfect. Except for the drink animation in my avatar, which is maybe still perfect in its own way. Is that what that is? I thought she was putting eye drops in here eyes.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 24, 2017 0:08:15 GMT
I agree... one thing, I think, Bioware did improve on was how some of their "Additional Task" level quests connected to the main story and to each other so that the little bits and pieces could build into something more meaningful. It's something taken right from TW3. The open world did/can diminish some of these in both games, depending on the order the player acquires them; but the overall idea is, IMO, actually executed a little better in ME:A than TW3. (I do realize there are a lot of people bound to disagree with me on that)... but anyway, getting back to ME:A.... Still, IMO, Bioware would have done better to just eliminate about 1/2 the additional tasks. The first to go, IMO, would be the ones that asked the player just to scan a certain number of rocks, plants, wildlife and enemies. I would leave in Naming the Dead, though, which leads through to Doesn't Add Up... both of which can add a lot of impact towards understanding what went wrong at Sites 1 and 2. I've never done naming the dead. Neither hav I yet I found some of the bodies but I never managed t ofind all of them but having asid that the collectathomn type ones I do tend to ignore as they can be repetitive but I likely will do it on a playthrough eventually. After all the first couple of playthrough's I didn't do the Angarran AI quest but I did for my last couple of runs. So I change what quests I do sometimes to make each playthrough different. Also what I do and approach I take as well.
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Post by dark8sage on Jul 24, 2017 3:51:55 GMT
Excluding tasks, MEA had the largest amount of side quests, and honestly most of them were pretty good.
The game is much better when you skip tasks and map exploration.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 24, 2017 4:12:21 GMT
So here it goes:
I have been playing the Witcher 3 recently, so speaking of the Witcher 3, and as several as you know, and once more it struck me just how simularily structured the two games side quests are. Each have roughly four layers of content.
You have your main quests and priority ops.
Your Secondary Quests and Alies and Relationships
Your Witcher Contracts and your Heleus Assignments.
Your Treasure Hunts/ question marks and your tasks (mostly mindless junk).
And yes sure Andromeda did even have a few of its Heleus Assignments turn into nothing more then a fetch quest (looking at you Okeer), but then Witcher 3 also had the quest 'blood ties' and 'the Volunteer' in its secondary quest log. And, while there are a few weak side quests here and there some of the tasks actually make up for it. And there are at least one or two actual gems in every layer of Andromeda's quest.
Allies and Relationships: Know Your Enemy,4 of the six companion quests, Ryder Family Secrets
Heleus Assignments: Movie Night, Contagion, Sleeping Dragons, the plot line on Voeld, Eladden, Kadara.
Tasks: Path of a Hero, Earn your Badge, and the name of the quest escapes me but the one on Eos where you are hunting down that scientist who died in a Remnant facility trying to figure out how to use them.
And...Witcher 3s treassure maps are virtually all garbage and pointless.
THe other thing that Andromeda's side quests does well, like Witcher 3 and Origins before it, is the side quests can get together to really flesh out the world, or tell their own side story.
Andromeda's side quests may not be the 'gold standard' but, they are close, damn close. And honestly its one thing I hope game companies and RPG makers look at in the future.
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kelarqshah
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by kelarqshah on Jul 24, 2017 12:17:45 GMT
All in all I felt a lot of the sidequests were fun and thematically appropriate. The issues I have with MEA's sidequests aren't usually with the quests themselves, but their presentation and delivery.
The 'Soft' conversation camera
I wasn't a big fan of this in Dragon Age, and I'm not a fan of it here. By introducing two conversation formats, the cinematic style we're used to from ME, and the 'soft' camera, developers are essentially dividing all conversations in two: those important enough that we require a close up camera to show emotions and expressions, and those that aren't. By attaching these different conversation mechanics to different quests, they thereby divide quests into 'important, character driven' quests, and 'extra' quests. Some of the more interesting sidequests in the game only have the 'soft' camera. However good it might be, it's been immediately relegated and de-personalised by the developers for time/budgetary reasons.
Backtracking
I'm a bit of a completionist, but I still enjoy meaningful backtracking. There's something nice about returning to a quest giver and seeing their reaction as opposed to just hearing them over a radio. I also love going back to a previous area to see how it's changed, even if it's a simple aesthetic one. However, as efficient and ergonomic as I tried to be with MEA's sidequests, I still ended up going back to Eos around 15 times. At that point, it doesn't matter how amazing the quest is, going back to Eos again really wears on me.
Busywork
This is a bit more of a personal thing and I understand why people would disagree with me, but I'd always prefer the 'less is more' approach. I'll generally prefer one map with a couple of really good sidequests to the map with five good quests, 10 acceptable ones, 15 mediocre and 20 fetch quests. The more icons you put onto my map, the less it feels like a region to explore and more like a theme park or museum where I have to work out the most efficient route to hit every major attraction.
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Post by ProbeAway on Jul 24, 2017 12:29:08 GMT
ME2, by so far. Even if you don't count the loyalty missions as side quests, I loved the way that all of the N7 mission happened on very distinct worlds and had their own 'feel' with different objectives. They even had cutscenes at the end of most of them, usually with Shep lookin' badass.
I think ME1 would win hands down if it was redone with more interesting/varied UNC Worlds and vessels.
Also, I would have voted for 'fuck the Witcher' if ME2 had been in the lead.
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