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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2017 13:24:24 GMT
All in all I felt a lot of the sidequests were fun and thematically appropriate. The issues I have with MEA's sidequests aren't usually with the quests themselves, but their presentation and delivery. The 'Soft' conversation camera I wasn't a big fan of this in Dragon Age, and I'm not a fan of it here. By introducing two conversation formats, the cinematic style we're used to from ME, and the 'soft' camera, developers are essentially dividing all conversations in two: those important enough that we require a close up camera to show emotions and expressions, and those that aren't. By attaching these different conversation mechanics to different quests, they thereby divide quests into 'important, character driven' quests, and 'extra' quests. Some of the more interesting sidequests in the game only have the 'soft' camera. However good it might be, it's been immediately relegated and de-personalised by the developers for time/budgetary reasons. BacktrackingI'm a bit of a completionist, but I still enjoy meaningful backtracking. There's something nice about returning to a quest giver and seeing their reaction as opposed to just hearing them over a radio. I also love going back to a previous area to see how it's changed, even if it's a simple aesthetic one. However, as efficient and ergonomic as I tried to be with MEA's sidequests, I still ended up going back to Eos around 15 times. At that point, it doesn't matter how amazing the quest is, going back to Eos again really wears on me. Busywork it This is a bit more of a personal thing and I understand why people would disagree with me, but I'd always prefer the 'less is more' approach. I'll generally prefer one map with a couple of really good sidequests to the map with five good quests, 10 acceptable ones, 15 mediocre and 20 fetch quests. The more icons you put onto my map, the less it feels like a region to explore and more like a theme park or museum where I have to work out the most efficient route to hit every major attraction. Definitely agree about the camera having an effect. Some of the backtracking quite so much is readily avoidable since the NPCs will still give you feedback if you return just once later on in the game to talk to them all at once. I only returned to Eos 4 times throughout the entire game and felt very certain that I had a "clean-up" talk with pretty much everyone. I found clearing individual planets far easier and logical in ME3 than clearing areas of Velen in TW3. I found the degree of backtracking (and sidestepping quests out of my pay grade) pretty frustrating in that game. Can it be improved in ME:A - absolutely it can... so I am, in effect, agreeing with you even though I didn't find it too bad. Here we agree, but people do tend to already complain about the maps being "empty" with driving sequences that are too long to get from objective to objective. Personally, I was very happy with the density of markers on the map. |
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Post by BadgerladDK on Jul 25, 2017 9:18:21 GMT
ME:A takes it by a hair for me, if we're allowed to discount the "scan x random things" tasks. I really can't be bothered with anything that doesn't have a map marker with at least a general search location.
ME2 also had great side content, but I can't vote for it since the whole game feels like a side quest to me. The main story is so paper thin if you count loyalty missions as side content.
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Post by kenshen19 on Jul 25, 2017 20:37:47 GMT
Maybe it has been to long but I really don't recall there being that many side quests in ME2 or they just don't stand out in my mind. I would rate them ME1, MEA, ME3, and ME2
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 26, 2017 0:23:53 GMT
I do know that I got tired of all those quests at the Citadel, esp when you often had to be sure you heard someone say something before the quest triggered. I think I can handle the quests better in MEA, except for the fact that the log for them seems to be a big unorganized mess, IMO. Of course, you don't actually need to trigger those quests or use the quest log. Both of those things just waste time. |
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Post by MarilynRobert on Jul 26, 2017 0:58:37 GMT
I do know that I got tired of all those quests at the Citadel, esp when you often had to be sure you heard someone say something before the quest triggered. I think I can handle the quests better in MEA, except for the fact that the log for them seems to be a big unorganized mess, IMO. Of course, you don't actually need to trigger those quests or use the quest log. Both of those things just waste time. You're right...if only I could allow myself to ignore such things...I drive myself nuts with the urge to complete the most mundane and senseless quests. I have no idea how to play games without trying to complete everything.  I admire those of you who can focus on the important things.  |
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 26, 2017 1:51:10 GMT
I wasn't clear. Those things don't even help you play a completionist game.
Whether or not you hear the conversations which put the queSts in the log is utterly irrelevant. The quest works exactly the same either way. It activates when you find the object if it isn't active already.
As for the log, it's of no real use. What you want to complete are the Galaxy and Citadel Maps. Complete them and the sidequests will take care of themselves.
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Post by vonuber on Jul 26, 2017 8:53:40 GMT
Yep. It was much more efficient to just survey each system then dump whatever crap you found at intervals.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 11:19:40 GMT
I do know that I got tired of all those quests at the Citadel, esp when you often had to be sure you heard someone say something before the quest triggered. I think I can handle the quests better in MEA, except for the fact that the log for them seems to be a big unorganized mess, IMO. Of course, you don't actually need to trigger those quests or use the quest log. Both of those things just waste time. I think I agree more with MarilynRobert@robmar on this one. In ME3, if you actually wanted to avoid certain side quests, it was next to impossible to avoid having them sit in your quest log as unfinished since the trigger for putting the quest into the log was frequently just walking near someone on the Citadel and hearing the coversation. There really wasn't a whole lot of them though and the items needed to complete them weren't that difficult to collect, so it was somewhat easier to just do a completionist game than to do a main quest focusede game unless you didn't care about having a bunch of unfinished quests in your log at the end of it. In ME:A, the quests don't generally go into your log until you actually clock to talk with the people give you the quest. Of course, you'd have to pretty much know ahead of time that partiuclar person just gives out a small task so that you can decide ahead of time that you don't want to take that quest on at all. In ME:A as well, not taking on some of the tasks will prevent later/connected tasks and quests from triggering. Some of the frustration I find with getting through ME:A is the lack of a really complete and accurate Wiki on this game. It seems that several Wiki's were started right away by various groups, but have since been abandoned. Several of the quest pages don't complete the quests and instead have indications that there is more information to come. Others contain a lot of misinformation. |
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Post by jaegerbane on Jul 26, 2017 11:32:49 GMT
Some of the frustration I find with getting through ME:A is the lack of a really complete and accurate Wiki on this game. It seems that several Wiki's were started right away by various groups, but have since been abandoned. Several of the quest pages don't complete the quests and instead have indications that there is more information to come. Others contain a lot of misinformation. Wikis in general seem to be going out of fashion for some reason. The XCOM wiki is in the same state, last time I checked. The Dragon Age one is a little better but still a bit spartan on DAI details. Even the Overwatch one doesn't feel very well curated. I don't know whether it's connected but most wikis I visit now are loaded with ads and crap, far worse then they ever were around the ME2/3 era. You can barely read anything even with adblocker on as the text still flies all over the place during the ages-long page render. The best guide I've seen for MEA is the gamepressure one. It's lacking a few details but it's got a surprising amount of depth considering how big the game is. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 11:43:39 GMT
Some of the frustration I find with getting through ME:A is the lack of a really complete and accurate Wiki on this game. It seems that several Wiki's were started right away by various groups, but have since been abandoned. Several of the quest pages don't complete the quests and instead have indications that there is more information to come. Others contain a lot of misinformation. Wikis in general seem to be going out of fashion for some reason. The XCOM wiki is in the same state, last time I checked. The Dragon Age one is a little better but still a bit spartan on DAI details. Even the Overwatch one doesn't feel very well curated. I don't know whether it's connected but most wikis I visit now are loaded with ads and crap, far worse then they ever were around the ME2/3 era. You can barely read anything even with adblocker on as the text still flies all over the place during the ages-long page render. The best guide I've seen for MEA is the gamepressure one. It's lacking a few details but it's got a surprising amount of depth considering how big the game is. I agree. It goes back to this whole idea of "click-bait" on the web. The thing with a Wiki is that it will continue to collect clicks for a long time to come even if it's totally incomplete and inaccurate. So, where there was basically one Wiki started for ME1, there were several started right away for ME"A but there is little evidence that they ever had much intent on actually completing them or that they cared that their initial thoughts about what was happening in some of the side quests were way off base. Really, if they have no intentions of completing them, they should be pressured to take them down completely... but they won't because, of course, they'll gather clicks for as long as new people are trying out the game. |
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 26, 2017 20:20:55 GMT
Of course, you don't actually need to trigger those quests or use the quest log. Both of those things just waste time. I think I agree more with MarilynRobert@robmar on this one. In ME3, if you actually wanted to avoid certain side quests, it was next to impossible to avoid having them sit in your quest log as unfinished since the trigger for putting the quest into the log was frequently just walking near someone on the Citadel and hearing the coversation. There really wasn't a whole lot of them though and the items needed to complete them weren't that difficult to collect, so it was somewhat easier to just do a completionist game than to do a main quest focusede game unless you didn't care about having a bunch of unfinished quests in your log at the end of it. In ME:A, the quests don't generally go into your log until you actually clock to talk with the people give you the quest. Of course, you'd have to pretty much know ahead of time that partiuclar person just gives out a small task so that you can decide ahead of time that you don't want to take that quest on at all. In ME:A as well, not taking on some of the tasks will prevent later/connected tasks and quests from triggering. Some of the frustration I find with getting through ME:A is the lack of a really complete and accurate Wiki on this game. It seems that several Wiki's were started right away by various groups, but have since been abandoned. Several of the quest pages don't complete the quests and instead have indications that there is more information to come. Others contain a lot of misinformation. Well, sure. An approach which ignores the quest log isn't going to help you keep the quest log clear. Though by the end of the game you'll be in the same place either way if you're going full completionist, you're in trouble in ME3 if you're a completionist WRT the log but not WRT the game-world. I'm not personally vulnerable to that particular form of Gamer OCD, probably because I started gaming before quest logs were invented. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 20:50:38 GMT
I think I agree more with MarilynRobert@robmar on this one. In ME3, if you actually wanted to avoid certain side quests, it was next to impossible to avoid having them sit in your quest log as unfinished since the trigger for putting the quest into the log was frequently just walking near someone on the Citadel and hearing the coversation. There really wasn't a whole lot of them though and the items needed to complete them weren't that difficult to collect, so it was somewhat easier to just do a completionist game than to do a main quest focusede game unless you didn't care about having a bunch of unfinished quests in your log at the end of it. In ME:A, the quests don't generally go into your log until you actually clock to talk with the people give you the quest. Of course, you'd have to pretty much know ahead of time that partiuclar person just gives out a small task so that you can decide ahead of time that you don't want to take that quest on at all. In ME:A as well, not taking on some of the tasks will prevent later/connected tasks and quests from triggering. Some of the frustration I find with getting through ME:A is the lack of a really complete and accurate Wiki on this game. It seems that several Wiki's were started right away by various groups, but have since been abandoned. Several of the quest pages don't complete the quests and instead have indications that there is more information to come. Others contain a lot of misinformation. Well, sure. An approach which ignores the quest log isn't going to help you keep the quest log clear. Though by the end of the game you'll be in the same place either way if you're going full completionist, you're in trouble in ME3 if you're a completionist WRT the log but not WRT the game-world. I'm not personally vulnerable to that particular form of Gamer OCD, probably because I started gaming before quest logs were invented. For me, it depends on what objective I've set for that particular playthrough. I don't consider myself to actually be a "completionist." With ME3, I'm now usually shooting for a particular range of EMS while working out which combos of which missions suit the role play for that Shepard best and give me the end target I want. However, with first playthrough of any game, I do like to be able to be sure that I'm doing every mission that should be available (and exposing myself to the entire game). It's not an easy task with these larger, open-world games. The first think I noticed was that my save indicated I had completed 100% of the game while I still had one unfinished quest in my log. The other thing I noticed is that none of the Wiki's for this game have a comprehensive list of quests - each one is missing a number of different quests than the others. By combining lists and checking them off as I went and adding as I encountered ones that weren't yet on the list, I thought I had a comprehensive list for myself; but now on my second playthrough, just by changing up the order between Voeld and Havarl, I'm getting quest names showing up that I wasn't aware existed (or that didn't exist) in the my previous playthrough. So, even with me trying to make sure I did every mission, I apparently didn't actually succeed at that. |
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Post by XJlock on Jul 27, 2017 0:18:32 GMT
Mass Effect 2 contains some of my preferred side quests.
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I admire those of you who can focus on the important things. 
