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Post by suikoden on Jul 23, 2017 4:52:21 GMT
This is something I've been wonding about - there have been some studies done to address metacritic score impacts on sales. Ars Technica - arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/04/steam-gauge-do-strong-reviews-lead-to-stronger-sales-on-steam/"[There is an] unmistakable upward trajectory in median sales as review scores increase, especially as those scores run through the 80s and 90s. The median game that receives a score of 70 on Metacritic sells about 89,000 estimated copies on Steam. At a Metacritic score of 80, the median sales go up to about 182,000. At a Metacritic score of 90, the median game skyrockets to just over 803,000 copies on Steam. The same upward trends can be seen at other sales percentiles over the Metacritic range." "That said, for the vast majority of games in the middle, Metacritic is far from the final determinant of sales destiny. A game is still probably better off sales wise with a Metacritic score of 80 rather than a Metacritic score of 60, but there are so many outliers and so much variability to sales performance in that review range that other factors seem more important to a specific game's eventual success." image.ibb.co/m5FyX5/IMG_0330.pngMyNintendoNews / Destructoid - mynintendonews.com/2012/03/10/metacritic-scores-really-do-matter-to-video-game-sales/"EEDAR analyst Geoffrey Zatkin has shared some interesting facts and figures with Destructoid regarding Metacritic and video game sales. According to Zatkin average review score floats around the 68-71 out of 100 range, but the games rated in that range rarely sell more than 100,000 copies." Here’s a few more insights that you may find interesting: - Titles rated below 80 sell poorly - Average review score is around the 68-71 out of 100 range. These games rarely sell over 100,000 copies. - Using the 3-month average sales of titles in 2011, games in the 70-79 range sold only 62,000 units. 60-69 range sold roughly 57,000 units - 216 games rated at 90 or above in 2011. These titles saw average sales of 700,000 units - 80-89 rated games saw a 3-month average drops to 236,000 units image.ibb.co/dspxQQ/IMG_0331.pngKotaku - kotaku.com/metacritic-matters-how-review-scores-hurt-video-games-472462218"To the people who make and sell video games, review scores are more important than many casual fans realize. Mostly because of Metacritic. To people who work in gaming, these Metascores can mean a lot. Say you’re a developer who needs money. You’ve got some ideas to pitch to publishers. You take some meetings. They’re going to ask: just how good have your games been?" “Typically, when you go into pitch meetings and whatnot, publishers are going to want to know your track record as far as Metacritic,” said Kim Swift, a game designer best known for helping create games like Portal and Quantum Conundrum. “As a company, what is your Metacritic average? As an individual, what is your Metacritic average? It’s pretty common in the industry these days, actually,” Swift told me. “When you’re negotiating with the publisher for a contract, you build in bonuses for the team based on Metacritic score. So if you get above a 90, then you get X amount for a bonus. If you get below that, you don’t get anything at all or get a smaller amount.” In other words, a developer’s priority is sometimes not just to make a good game, but to make a game that they think will resonate with reviewers, which could mean anything from artificially extending a game’s length or adding superfluous features that they believe reviewers like. My takeaway from all of this is that metacritic definitely matters - particularly for games that can crack that 90% ceiling. It's always interesting to see how metacritic scores could potentially impact employees themselves that have worked on games. Definitely a reminded to avoid lambasting the creators of the games themselves - although in my opinion, those in charge are fair game, as their actions can directly effect the livelihoods of their employees future work endeavours.
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Post by majesticjazz on Jul 23, 2017 6:07:25 GMT
Whether people here like MC or not, publishers DO take MC scores seriously. I disagree but that is the nature of the business
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Post by warrior on Jul 23, 2017 7:56:53 GMT
Anecdotal, obv, but I find the metascores to be mostly accurate and a pretty good indicator of how I'll feel about a game if I have no other attachment or pre-release interest. MEA's 72 score won't stop me from buying MEA because it's BioWare and ME, but it would make me hesitate to buy a game for a new franchise or in a franchise I hadn't played. Similarly, a really high score gets my interest, and makes me more likely to buy a game that wasn't on my radar before, like Nier: A.
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Post by vonuber on Jul 23, 2017 8:11:06 GMT
Scores in general are too simplistic. I much prefer a review that doesn't have them as it forces you to actually read what they are saying.
For example Vampire TMB would have tanked on score at the time, but is now a classic after patching to actually make it work. However a written review would demonstrate that beyond the technical issues was a genuinely brilliant game.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2017 8:25:40 GMT
The "critic" scores influence some of the folks, but I think word of mouth and other media do a lot too. Reputation has an effect, whether it's accurate or not.
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Post by abaris on Jul 23, 2017 8:55:52 GMT
Since I discovered Angry Joe to be mostly in line with my own tastes, I mostly base my decisions on his reviews. He gave the game a 6, possibly a 7. That's again in accord to my own feelings.
As for metacritic, I observed quite a shift how Bioware games are reviewed. Up until ME2 user reviews and critics were perfectly in line, giving the games almost the same ratings. Starting with DAII, users suddenly handed out much lower scores than the magazines. Back then I believed the low scores and having played the demo, decided on not buying the game. Only a month ago, I decided to give DAII an chance and have to say, the user scores were anything but justified.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 23, 2017 10:10:38 GMT
Interesting article suikoden . Once it drops off the first page, please let me know and I'll move this to the 'articles' sub-forum. - - - I find it interesting how marginal the difference can be between a perceived success and a perceived failure. (using Xbox scores) DAI (the GOTY 2014) - Metascore: 85 www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-one/dragon-age-inquisition MEA (My face hurts!) - Metascore: 76 www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-one/mass-effect-andromedaOnly a 9-point gap between winner and shit? (the PC gap was 13 points and the PS4 gap was 18 points, but even so) Personally, I think DAI and MEA are more alike than unalike. A bit like Shepard's leap at the end of ME2: DAI was caught, MEA, less so. DAI didn't crack the 90% ceiling, I recall Mike Laidlaw being sanguine about the game settling at 89 for PS4. And whilst I enjoy DAI, I don't think it deserves to crack 90%. If DAI was more buggy at launch and MEA less so, perhaps there would be a different story.
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Post by abaris on Jul 23, 2017 10:15:19 GMT
Only a 9-point gap between winner and shit? There's a reason for that. People are conditioned to view every score below 80 to be shit. The magazines conditioned them that way by handing out hig 80ies to every AAA title left, right and center. But there's a reason why the scale ranges for 0 to 100. A score of 76 still means above average, since the zero line is at 50. But there's also a valid reason for DAI being higher on the ladder than MEA. DAI is the better game. In terms of story, characters and replayability.
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Post by cypherj on Jul 23, 2017 10:33:08 GMT
Interesting article suikoden . Once it drops off the first page, please let me know and I'll move this to the 'articles' sub-forum. - - - I find it interesting how marginal the difference can be between a perceived success and a perceived failure. (using Xbox scores) DAI (the GOTY 2014) - Metascore: 85 www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-one/dragon-age-inquisition MEA (My face hurts!) - Metascore: 76 www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-one/mass-effect-andromedaOnly a 9-point gap between winner and shit? (the PC gap was 13 points and the PS4 gap was 18 points, but even so) Personally, I think DAI and MEA are more alike than unalike. A bit like Shepard's leap at the end of ME2: DAI was caught, MEA, less so. DAI didn't crack the 90% ceiling, I recall Mike Laidlaw being sanguine about the game settling at 89 for PS4. And whilst I enjoy DAI, I don't think it deserves to crack 90%. If DAI was more buggy at launch and MEA less so, perhaps there would be a different story. But it seems like the company has a line on what is acceptable. They said that Bioware tested ME:A with their focus groups and predicted a score of mid 80s. They said they were fine with that. But the game ended up in the 70s, and the CEO said the scores were lower than they would have liked. The reason for this is that the vast majority of people look at scores on a school grading scale. So anything in the 80s is associated with good, above average, B, B+. While anything in the 70s is considered average. There's a huge difference when someone asks how a game was and the response is, it was good, or it was average or alright. Also, Metacritic color codes the scores. I play on the PC and only 4 of the 37 reviews were 80 or higher. So it's also a huge difference in looking at Metacritic and seeing a lot of green, or having a green score, and seeing a lot of yellow and having a yellow score. Green is good, and yellow probably isn't even see as average, it's probably has a perception as bad.
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Post by abaris on Jul 23, 2017 11:08:58 GMT
But it seems like the company has a line on what is acceptable. They said that Bioware tested ME:A with their focus groups and predicted a score of mid 80s. They said they were fine with that. But the game ended up in the 70s, and the CEO said the scores were lower than they would have liked. I would love to know how these focus groups are made up. How they could possible say that this game deserved a rating in the mid 80ies in the state it was in at release. Everything else is up for debate. I don't care much for the story or the companions and consider it average based on that. But there were obvious and objective flaws at release. For everyone to see. How could anyone say, release it, this is gonna be good?
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Post by kumazan on Jul 23, 2017 11:27:35 GMT
Maybe. I don't really care about metacritic scores much when buying games (although I admit a 85+ score has sometimes given me a final push to buy a game I was heavily considering), I mostly go for the genre + dev studio + gut feeling combo. Not that this always works, because for some reason my gut feeling keeps making me buy some FPSs, even if only on sale. I need to give more weight to the genre part of my formula. But that is anecdotal, I suppose there're bound to be people who care about review scores, and that must have affected ME:A's sales. By how much we can only speculate though.
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Post by pouf on Jul 23, 2017 12:07:21 GMT
Anyone with a brain knows Metacritic is full of crap.
But hey, if you're happy to make allies with people whose psychotic hatred and wish to see the game fail is fuelled purely by bigotry against women and LGBT people, good for you. Anyone with a pathetic obsession with shitting on the game is cool with you.
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Post by Amirit on Jul 23, 2017 13:32:58 GMT
I am wondering, what is the result of what? The game is excellent and/or marketing was great - hence, high sales and scores, or the game was bad - hence, low sales and bad score? Non of that graphs can show if scores truly affect the sell, or simply reflect game quality post factum.
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I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
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Post by LogicGunn on Jul 23, 2017 13:44:08 GMT
Hard to say. The game was fundamentally flawed and unfinished and clearly there were issues in development. It was also a damn good game. Since EA don't actually publicly state the total number of sales of a game across all platforms, there is no way to know.
I suspect the sale volumes that matter happen long before any statistics can be collected and analysed. I don't doubt that there is some kind of connection between scores and sales, but that connection won't be one direction only. People need to be more careful when they spew out statistics to prove a point. Things don't exist in a vacuum and any trend in data always has multiple variables.
The number one rule in statistical analysis is Correlation doesn't always imply causation.
Metacritic scores have zero influence on whether I will buy or enjoy a game. I don't think anyone has ever said to me that they buy a game (or not) based on metacritic scores, but plenty of people say they buy a game (or not) based on youtube reviews, gameplay, demos etc. Does anyone on here actually think "Oh, that has a 90, I'll buy it."? That doesn't mean they don't agree with a score; a lot of people played Andromeda and and then gave some variant of "Meh, it was ok, should have been better", but no one has said that the score stopped them buying it.
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Post by LogicGunn on Jul 23, 2017 13:50:38 GMT
Maybe. I don't really care about metacritic scores much when buying games (although I admit a 85+ score has sometimes given me a final push to buy a game I was heavily considering), I mostly go for the genre + dev studio + gut feeling combo. Not that this always works, because for some reason my gut feeling keeps making me buy some FPSs, even if only on sale. I need to give more weight to the genre part of my formula. But that is anecdotal, I suppose there're bound to be people who care about review scores, and that must have affected ME:A's sales. By how much we can only speculate though. This. I know I tend to enjoy Bioware, CD Projekt Red, Bethesda games so I buy them. Actually, I tend to pre-order them. I trust that I will enjoy playing them.
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Post by Daft Arbiter on Jul 23, 2017 13:57:31 GMT
Interesting article suikoden . Once it drops off the first page, please let me know and I'll move this to the 'articles' sub-forum. - - - I find it interesting how marginal the difference can be between a perceived success and a perceived failure. (using Xbox scores) DAI (the GOTY 2014) - Metascore: 85 www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-one/dragon-age-inquisition MEA (My face hurts!) - Metascore: 76 www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-one/mass-effect-andromedaOnly a 9-point gap between winner and shit? (the PC gap was 13 points and the PS4 gap was 18 points, but even so) Personally, I think DAI and MEA are more alike than unalike. A bit like Shepard's leap at the end of ME2: DAI was caught, MEA, less so. DAI didn't crack the 90% ceiling, I recall Mike Laidlaw being sanguine about the game settling at 89 for PS4. And whilst I enjoy DAI, I don't think it deserves to crack 90%. If DAI was more buggy at launch and MEA less so, perhaps there would be a different story. Expectations were not as high for DAI. I don't personally know anyone who was hyped up for Inquisition, but I know quite a few who bought the game anyway. Whether or not they enjoyed the game varied from person to person, but it didn't appear as though Inquisition had much pressure to be good. On the other hand, various friends and acquaintances who do not post here appeared to be much more interested for Andromeda before they played any of it. Quite a few were excited for this sort of reboot to the Mass Effect series and wanted to try it out. Unfortunately, those who I've talked to since release generally don't appear to have been satisfied with it. I know, this is all anecdotal, and just my personal experience, but I think it runs with the theme that Andromeda was not a bad game, but it was a disappointing one. It didn't deliver in the way that many had hoped, and that was what hurt it the most.
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Post by abaris on Jul 23, 2017 14:02:14 GMT
Expectations were not as high for DAI. I don't personally know anyone who was hyped up for Inquisition, but I know quite a few who bought the game anyway. Whether or not they enjoyed the game varied from person to person, but it didn't appear as though Inquisition had much pressure to be good. After DAII pressure certainly was high. There were quite a lot of people not liking where DAII was going. DAI had to make good on that. I would even go as far as saying the pressure was higher than with Mass Effect. It was only the endings that provided for a shitstorm, not the whole game as it was the case with DAII.
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Post by bigbad on Jul 23, 2017 14:14:44 GMT
Anyone with a brain knows Metacritic is full of crap. But hey, if you're happy to make allies with people whose psychotic hatred and wish to see the game fail is fuelled purely by bigotry against women and LGBT people, good for you. Anyone with a pathetic obsession with shitting on the game is cool with you. Interestingly, these comments sound nearly identical to those of somebody who was recently banned.
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Post by pouf on Jul 23, 2017 14:50:11 GMT
Expectations were not as high for DAI. I don't personally know anyone who was hyped up for Inquisition What you really mean is "I didn't give a crap so I didn't care in the slightest about all the people who did!"
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Post by pouf on Jul 23, 2017 14:51:17 GMT
Hard to say. The game was fundamentally flawed and unfinished Witcher III is a fundamentally flawed and unfinished game. It actually is a broken game. But all of the people who want BioWare staff to die over complete lies they spout about ME:A brainlessly give Witcher III 10/10 for being garbage.
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Post by LogicGunn on Jul 23, 2017 16:20:33 GMT
Hard to say. The game was fundamentally flawed and unfinished Witcher III is a fundamentally flawed and unfinished game. It actually is a broken game. But all of the people who want BioWare staff to die over complete lies they spout about ME:A brainlessly give Witcher III 10/10 for being garbage. I would prefer not to be dragged into a bitch-fest about game fandoms, thank you. I especially hate to be selectively quoted.
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Post by smilesja on Jul 23, 2017 16:40:37 GMT
I think it's dependent on the game. Triple A games like ME A are not really affected by meta critic scores where as indie games are likely impacted by them.
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Post by jaegerbane on Jul 23, 2017 16:59:12 GMT
Since I discovered Angry Joe to be mostly in line with my own tastes, I mostly base my decisions on his reviews. He gave the game a 6, possibly a 7. That's again in accord to my own feelings. As for metacritic, I observed quite a shift how Bioware games are reviewed. Up until ME2 user reviews and critics were perfectly in line, giving the games almost the same ratings. Starting with DAII, users suddenly handed out much lower scores than the magazines. Back then I believed the low scores and having played the demo, decided on not buying the game. Only a month ago, I decided to give DAII an chance and have to say, the user scores were anything but justified. DA2 was a bit of an oddball. For one thing, it's critical reviews were absurd. PC Gamer's oft-mentioned 94% score was probably the most extreme example, but there was an apparent general view amongst critical circles that things like the recycled dungeons, nymphomaniac squadmates, lack of player input in quests and storyline and that third act were all what made a classic, and realistically its doesn't make much sense to argue that the players were wrong in rejecting that. There was also the situation that DA2 made mistakes that DAO did not. A lot what set DAO apart wasn't repeated in DA2 - the origin stories, the variety of landscapes etc - for no good reason. DA2 was still a great game - I'd rate it in the mid 80s - but it did way too much wrong to justify a mid-90s score.
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Post by shinobiwan on Jul 23, 2017 17:00:51 GMT
The fact that there's a correlation is obvious I would think. The bigger question is the chicken/egg problem: whether the reviews impact sales or whether good games sell better naturally and the reviews are simply accurately reporting quality. I doubt we'll get great info on that any time soon, especially since a lot of the effect of review scores on sales may be subconscious.
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Post by abaris on Jul 23, 2017 17:07:41 GMT
DA2 was still a great game - I'd rate it in the mid 80s - but it did way too much wrong to justify a mid-90s score. I would be hard pressed to remember any game deserving a 90s score. 90+ is implying a near perfect game. For me DAII was kind of a peculiar experience. I went into it fully expecting it to be bad, only to come to the conclusion that repeated environments didn't bother me at all and the combat I hated in the demo could indeed be pretty strategic. I played it after MEA and it added to my feeling of MEA being bland in comparison to previous Bioware titles.
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