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Post by The Hype Himself on Sept 23, 2016 1:24:16 GMT
Trophy hunting for animals... depends on the species, and I don't really get the notion of calling it 'trophy hunting', which is something I put a negative connotation towards. I think it's wrong to kill a lion or tiger for sport, but say some kind of pest or vermin? It's just population control. Same goes for deer and whatnot. -snip- You wouldn't call population control hunting trophy hunting because it simply isn't, though. If you don't like the use of the term trophy hunting, what would you prefer to call the practice of hunting for trophies specifically? Poaching, as it should be.
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Post by Lady Artifice on Sept 23, 2016 1:26:20 GMT
Poaching, as it should be. But poaching is traditionally defined as illegal hunting. So, what term does that leave for legal trophy hunting?
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Post by The Hype Himself on Sept 23, 2016 1:29:45 GMT
Poaching, as it should be. But poaching is traditionally defined as illegal hunting. So, what term does that leave for legal trophy hunting? You asked what I would prefer it be called. I prefer to label trophy hunting (in the modern sense) as poaching, since I think it's insane and terrifically unethical and immoral. I know that that's not the case in reality, but that's how I view the issue. I don't think there should be 'legal' trophy hunting.
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Inactive Moderator
ღ The Untitled
Just here for the cosplay
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Post by mousestalker on Sept 23, 2016 1:37:22 GMT
But poaching is traditionally defined as illegal hunting. So, what term does that leave for legal trophy hunting? You asked what I would prefer it be called. I prefer to label trophy hunting (in the modern sense) as poaching, since I think it's insane and terrifically unethical and immoral. I know that that's not the case in reality, but that's how I view the issue. I don't think there should be 'legal' trophy hunting. So all the elephants, rhinos, lions, tigers and cheetahs go extinct. Not to mention you believe ethics is subjective. Just because it's wrong for you doesn't mean it's wrong for other people. For a big game hunter, it could be absolutely ethical for them to gun down animals for their heads. Either there are no absolutes or there are. You can not have it both ways.
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Post by Lady Artifice on Sept 23, 2016 1:40:39 GMT
You asked what I would prefer it be called. I prefer to label trophy hunting (in the modern sense) as poaching, since I think it's insane and terrifically unethical and immoral. I know that that's not the case in reality, but that's how I view the issue. I don't think there should be 'legal' trophy hunting. The part I don't understand is that you said you don't "get" calling it trophy hunting "which is something [you] have a negative association towards." Setting aside the disparity on the issue of whether trophy hunting ought to be permissible in some circumstances (the video already argues my position for me), you'd prefer to ignore the distinction and lump all trophy hunting under (whether conducted en mass by cartels or by individuals paying the local government for the right to legally do so) under the same term. It sounds like you're veiling a political argument with a linguistic opinion.
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Post by The Hype Himself on Sept 23, 2016 1:46:08 GMT
You asked what I would prefer it be called. I prefer to label trophy hunting (in the modern sense) as poaching, since I think it's insane and terrifically unethical and immoral. I know that that's not the case in reality, but that's how I view the issue. I don't think there should be 'legal' trophy hunting. So all the elephants, rhinos, lions, tigers and cheetahs go extinct. Not to mention you believe ethics is subjective. Just because it's wrong for you doesn't mean it's wrong for other people. For a big game hunter, it could be absolutely ethical for them to gun down animals for their heads. Either there are no absolutes or there are. You can not have it both ways. The trick about subjectivity is that you can also have your opinion and feelings about issues. You should know that better than most. Subjectivity isn't just 'there are no laws or right or wrong'. It's that all our laws and morals and ethics have no greater construction or mandate than what we as humans come to consensus on. The universe is inherently amoral. We as humans are not. I can state a position and feeling on a topic or issue, and recognize that it has no bearing on the natural state of the universe. But I can advocate that position and make arguments for it. It doesn't mean a law or morality created by constructed by humans is necessarily wrong, but that it's just that; a construction by humans, and, depending on the amount of zeal behind it, it can be particularly malleable or rigid. Also, you missed the part where I differentiated my feelings on what should be from my acknowledgement of what is.
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Post by The Hype Himself on Sept 23, 2016 1:53:29 GMT
You asked what I would prefer it be called. I prefer to label trophy hunting (in the modern sense) as poaching, since I think it's insane and terrifically unethical and immoral. I know that that's not the case in reality, but that's how I view the issue. I don't think there should be 'legal' trophy hunting. The part I don't understand is that you said you don't "get" calling it trophy hunting "which is something [you] have a negative association towards." Setting aside the disparity on the issue of whether trophy hunting ought to be permissible in some circumstances (the video already argues my position for me), you'd prefer to ignore the distinction and lump all trophy hunting under (whether conducted en mass by cartels or by individuals paying the local government for the right to legally do so) under the same term. It sounds like you're veiling a political argument with a linguistic opinion. Yes, I would personally set aside the distinction and put trophy hunting under the banner of poaching. To that end, I am indeed making a political argument/statement that I believe that that should be the case at large. That said, I have enough cognitive ability to recognize that this is not the case in reality, nor likely to change. It seems like you're attacking my preferences here. Why?
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Post by rspanther on Sept 23, 2016 1:55:33 GMT
I don't have a very high opinion of Gandhi or Mother Teresa.
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Post by Lady Artifice on Sept 23, 2016 2:02:44 GMT
Yes, I would personally set aside the distinction and put trophy hunting under the banner of poaching. To that end, I am indeed making a political argument/statement that I believe that that should be the case at large. That said, I have enough cognitive ability to recognize that this is not the case in reality, nor likely to change. It seems like you're attacking my preferences here. Why? I apologize if that's how it seemed. I have a habit of taking people at face value when they argue linguistics, so it's good for me to clarify when it's actually an idealogical issue at play.
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Inactive Moderator
ღ The Untitled
Just here for the cosplay
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Mousestalker
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by mousestalker on Sept 23, 2016 2:05:14 GMT
Of course anyone may say anything. That doesn't make it right or even coherent. Altering the meaning of words only muddies the waters and deprives people of the ability to discuss things rationally. Which is of course the point of such an Orwellian maneuver. Poaching is hunting animals illegally. What you are trying to argue is that all trophy hunting should be illegal, for no adequately explained reason and therefore it ought to be poaching. Saying that does not mean that it is currently. And please do not try tell me what I am thinking. You really have no idea. Lastly, the universe is very much moral. People have the choice not to be.
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Post by The Hype Himself on Sept 23, 2016 2:22:39 GMT
Of course anyone may say anything. That doesn't make it right or even coherent. Altering the meaning of words only muddies the waters and deprives people of the ability to discuss things rationally. Which is of course the point of such an Orwellian maneuver. Poaching is hunting animals illegally. What you are trying to argue is that all trophy hunting should be illegal, for no adequately explained reason and therefore it ought to be poaching. Saying that does not mean that it is currently. And please do not try tell me what I am thinking. You really have no idea. Lastly, the universe is very much moral. People have the choice not to be. My adequately explained reason? I think its highly unethical to kill animals for sport. Is that good enough, or is 'adequately' going to be changed arbitrarily? As for 'Orwellian' wordplay, let's be direct: Yes, I think that trophy hunting should be synonymous with poaching. I think it should be illegal to hunt animals as trophies. I think it is cruel and unnecessarily violent to kill animals for reasons that have little to no utility. I do not find arguments that economic benefits to poverty-stricken and under-developed regions to be sufficient to justify senseless killing. And how else should I state that I am aware of how things work in reality? I know it is legal. I know that my preference and feelings for what I think are legal are different from what is. Is that enough of an answer for you, or should I elaborate further? And you mistake me if you think I told you what you are thinking. I did not suggest what you think or what you ought to be thinking. I stated that I believe that given your academic background (and, more importantly, your description of ethical subjectivism) that you should be aware of what subjectivism is. If you don't, that's fine. I can define it for you if you desire. If not, that's fine too. But please, don't presume to tell me what I do and don't believe. You have no idea. And you will have to prove this statement's veracity on a scale beyond human social construction (as well as elaborate on the sentiment). Are you referring to moral absolutism or moral realism?
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Post by ToLazy4Name on Sept 23, 2016 2:35:08 GMT
Wait, so you care enough about animals being killed to warrant you wanting to enact legislature but you don't care all that much about bestiality?
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Sept 23, 2016 2:35:44 GMT
I don't have a very high opinion of Gandhi or Mother Teresa. I'm on the fence about Gandhi, but with you on Mother Teresa. Paraphrasing Hitchens - "she didn't love the impoverished, she loved poverty".
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Post by The Hype Himself on Sept 23, 2016 2:36:42 GMT
And, apologies for the smug attitude. Irritation affects us all differently. I just didn't realize my unpopular opinions would be so ground-breakingly unpopular.
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Post by crusty on Sept 23, 2016 2:36:57 GMT
Wait, so you care enough about animals being killed to warrant you wanting to enact legislature but you don't care all that much about bestiality? wew lad
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Post by The Hype Himself on Sept 23, 2016 2:38:33 GMT
Wait, so you care enough about animals being killed to warrant you wanting to enact legislature but you don't care all that much about bestiality? I do care about bestiality. I don't care about zoophilia.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Sept 23, 2016 4:52:11 GMT
The folks who hunted down other humans in the past, were doing population control and have done a massive favor to mother Earth.
Humans are evil, we should replace them with Caracals and Ostriches.
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Post by straykat on Sept 23, 2016 5:40:49 GMT
The folks who hunted down other humans in the past, were doing population control and have done a massive favor to mother Earth.
Humans are evil, we should replace them with Caracals and Ostriches. I heard Ostriches taste good.
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Post by Darth Dennis on Sept 23, 2016 6:16:06 GMT
I know that this thread has moved on, but the best Batman was clearly the 60's TV show...
...You know, with the 'Bang!s' and the 'Pow!s' and the fake-ass green screen!
Understandable, considering the era, but whatever.
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Post by PATPATPATlol on Sept 23, 2016 6:50:23 GMT
I don't like trophy hunting either. If you're hunting for food, that's fine but hunting for the sake of putting an animals head on a wall is just stupid and unnecessary to me. People pay a lot of money to hunt too but some of these organizations that claim that the money goes back into "conservation" isn't always true.
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Post by ALTBOULI on Sept 23, 2016 7:27:30 GMT
Anyone who tries to justify trophy hunting or poaching is a moron
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Post by ToLazy4Name on Sept 23, 2016 7:42:06 GMT
Anyone who tries to justify trophy hunting or poaching is a moron I shot a deer and mounted its head on my wall this season. Thoughts?
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Post by Gaston on Sept 23, 2016 8:04:12 GMT
But poaching is traditionally defined as illegal hunting. So, what term does that leave for legal trophy hunting? You asked what I would prefer it be called. I prefer to label trophy hunting (in the modern sense) as poaching, since I think it's insane and terrifically unethical and immoral. I know that that's not the case in reality, but that's how I view the issue. I don't think there should be 'legal' trophy hunting. Which is a naive stance to take. Legal hunting is necessary for population control, else certain animal species will run out of control which will have negative effects on the environment and all other animals in it. And this is coming from an environementalist who is a member of the WNF.
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Post by nanotm on Sept 23, 2016 9:08:38 GMT
Anyone who tries to justify trophy hunting or poaching is a moron I shot a deer and mounted its head on my wall this season. Thoughts? if you ate the meat or sold it on to someone who would eat it and used the skin or sold it to someone who would use it I don't care what you do with the head, killing something just to have the head is dumb and problematic for the future survival not just of that animal species but also for humans in the area, sure we can eat most animals on the planet but a varied diet based on local flora and fauna is better than a fixed diet across the planet based on a narrow selection of farmed produce.... keeping a momento of a kill and putting it on display isn't really a problem, I even agree that paid for hunts in the savanah or national parks are a good thing so long as the licences fund the parks work and do not endanger populations being kept there. every now and then some group like "born free foundation" pops up and wastes its entire capital reserves trying to do something that ultimately fails due to lack of funding and narrow-mindedness, had that group understood from the off that allowing a couple of kills of their herds a year for a high price would of let them grow faster do more and made them self funding instead of reliant on donations that will always eventually dry up and ultimately mean their long term failure then despite their illogical stand point they would of survived and might even have achieved greatness, something that some places have realised much earlier on, of course that would also need to be coupled with proper security measures to prevent poachers, indeed an area the size of the masai mara could be totally poacher free had they a sustainable policy but instead they prefer to burn everything that wasn't a licenced kill and still sell permits for trophies and burn the meat..... illegal meat will always be produced from illegal kills, so logic dictates that they should control the culled numbers and allow people to buy licences to take part in the cull and ultimately make money from selling the produce, be that the trophy head or the meat taken from the kill.... but no they prefer short sighted measures designed ot ensure the highest price for the poachers from those stolen items.... much better to make all travel through a zone only legal where you have a licence tag, make it an rfid tag give different tags for each zone and send up drones armed with machine guns to kill anyone that doesn't have a tag who's in the zone, and bingo there will be no unlicenced killing or trade of stuff, no more problems because the rangers cant cover such a large area with so few people, and bingo the problem of illegal hunting disappears
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Post by The Hype Himself on Sept 23, 2016 10:49:28 GMT
You asked what I would prefer it be called. I prefer to label trophy hunting (in the modern sense) as poaching, since I think it's insane and terrifically unethical and immoral. I know that that's not the case in reality, but that's how I view the issue. I don't think there should be 'legal' trophy hunting. Which is a naive stance to take. Legal hunting is necessary for population control, else certain animal species will run out of control which will have negative effects on the environment and all other animals in it. And this is coming from an environementalist who is a member of the WNF. There's a difference between population control and trophy hunting, which is what the argument is about. As I stated, I understand the necessity of population/pest control. I do not understand the necessity of trophy hunting.
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