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Post by Hrungr on Aug 5, 2017 18:29:51 GMT
On Hybrid Classes... - I'm hoping it's something we'll see. As it was mentioned earlier, certain popular/core playstyles (like a melee-mage) are only available with a specialization, and it can take dozens of hours before you can even start on that path.
On Class-based vs Classless... - I can see the arguments either way. In game where you're primarily a solo act like Skyrim, KoA, Witcher, etc. I prefer classless and a buffet to pick and choose from. In party-based games though, I lean towards class-based, with each member filling specific roles. Depending on where DA4 goes with the Fade though, the lines with magic may be blurring. We'll see!
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Post by mattjamho on Aug 5, 2017 21:15:26 GMT
Duel wielding mages and crossbows on warriors would be awesome. Not sure what would fit for a rogue though. Maybe some sort of magical cross over, with enchanted traps and bombs?
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viniciussalerno
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Post by viniciussalerno on Aug 6, 2017 1:52:04 GMT
Blood mage with demon pet (even if is just for gameplay purposes,like a double jump),the more points you invest the more powerfull the demon (rage demon max,a pride demon would be too much)
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Post by Ean'Harel on Aug 6, 2017 7:18:23 GMT
Aaw, your words bring tears to my eyes! I loved doing that in Origins!! Specially the part where we backstab the mage even before he/she casts the first spell. Good times indeed, good times! I'm dabbling on and off as a dagger rogue now in DAI, and while inconsistent, I found they do in general know to stay behind if I go into stealth before a fight. The caveat being you can't range as far as you could in DAO or remain in stealth as long. But in DAO that was also my favorite tactic - carefully setting up the rogue(s) behind the mage(s) and then executing all your queued up actions -> Entropy Hrungr Rogues are a proper bunch of trolls! Hrungr: good job on getting your companions to listen! I tried, especially in Redcliffe castle where they drop heavy hints i.e. "They're rehearsing for the choir, let's go all sneaky on them", but I only managed a good setup a couple of times. The rest of the time... well, I'd have had more success barging in, jumping up and down, then as soon as they start throwing tomatoes at me, disappearing into the shadows. Not as troll-ish, unfortunately. Abilities: for magic in particular, but not only -- if we're restricted to 8 active abilities, I'd like to be able to switch between a couple of setups easily. Say, critter-spells and boss-spells. Crowd-control or Heavy-Hitter. Etc. A bit like switching weapons in combat. I think it's even more important for mages than for other classes. I understand I can't learn every spell in the Book of Beyond-Shadow, but the eight skills bit is super-restrictive. Ideally I'd also like my companions -- and again, mostly the mage ones -- to be selective when using their skills. I don't want to fine-tune the spells they can use whenever I fight something with a particular resistance. What I mean is, if my mages fight a fire dragon, they should naturally avoid casting fire spells.
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Post by Entropy on Aug 6, 2017 9:42:35 GMT
That and taking a hard look at abilities which are only useful in specific situations. When you have access to just a small number in your bar, I find I'll (typically) choose those with the broadest application over specific ones. Generally only at higher levels, when I have abilities to spare, I might start experimenting more with ones that have a more specific focus. And in DAI, I find that I tend to gravitate towards fire and electricity trees before frost or diving deep into spirit (beyond barrier and augments for that). Good damage and CC with those two. Though admittedly I haven't played that much DAI after they added all the new ability upgrades (in Trespasser IIRC), so they may be more attractive now. I'm currently playing with a mage, she is at level 12 and I already ran out of slots, one being the focus ability. The 8 slots limit really undermines the mage class, I really hope they do away with this. DA never was a stealth game, so I understand why it is implemented the way it is, but after DAO I find it has become more an "awesome" mechanic than something really useful. In DAO once I set up the rogue, I entered the area with the rest of the party, enemies ran toward them leaving their mage behind, all alone, for my rogue to feast without a worry about a warrior smashing him/her. While I enjoyed DAI, I don't get the same kick out of its combat...
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Post by Hellkite on Aug 7, 2017 15:11:59 GMT
Core Classes & Specialisations :
I'd be happy with the usual trio of classes OR A set character ie like Hawke, defined by name etc, but if it's set in tevinter, I'd like the character to be blessed with magical capabilities. From there, your choice in skills will dictate your defined class. So for example, say if you choose weapon skills and elemental magics, you will unlock the specialisation as a Battlemage. If you focus on rogue skills and spells of illusions and hexes, you would be a Arcane Assassin. If you focus on all the magic skills, you would eventually become an Enchanter. However unlike in andromeda, no swaps, your choices reflect on who your character has become, as such, companions and NPCs will refer to you by your chosen skills. Of course, if the option of learning blood magic comes, I'd like to see that also reflect your choices. For example, Battlemage might be given the chance to instead drink dragons blood, giving us even more close range abilities to rend foe with sword or magical talons. Eventually, your mastery of elemental and the Dragons blood would give you the capability of unleashing your own draconic breath attack. Are you an Enchanter, seeking the edge on your enemies in the game? The dark path of blood magic is yours. Bolster your skills by summoning demons, dominating the minds of foes and boiling their blood. Do you wield this power for good like tevineter heroes of folklore? Or will you embrace darker traditions. As an Arcane Assassin your blood magic has been honed in forging the perfect predator. Your strikes drain the life force from your foes, whilst they weaken you feed and grow stronger. You use your powers to become invisible to the enemy, giving you the opportunity to sink your blades deep.
OR I wouldn't mind seeing a character where you choose your race and essentially your faction. An Elf might be one of the Dalish, A dwarf who has followed Valta and is learning of their ancient heritage, or are you human of tevinter? Thus I'd like to see the usual trio of classes but with the specialisations being unique to each faction. Tevinter human Warrior- Reaver or Abilities like Fenris has. Rogue- Duelist or Magekiller/ Assassin. Mage- Blood Mage or Battlemage.
Dalish Elf Warrior- Sword/shield Emerald Knight or Dual Wielder Style that's elegant. Rogue- Tempest or Ranger/ Hunter. Mage- Keeper or Arcane Warrior.
Dwarf Warrior- Beserker or Guardian. Rogue- Artificer or Legionaire. 'Mage'/ awokened '- Earthshaker or Warden (a class that uses sort of runes or glyphs that heal or empower allies and debuff foes).
Schools/Spells: I'd love for the elemental spells to consist of Flame and Ice, and for Primal to use Stone and Storm spells. I'd also like to Hexes return, with powerful debuffs or corrosive abilities in Entropy. Creation I'd love to see healing, glyphs that repulse, and plant type magics that entangle people (maybe upgrades with poison damage or longer duration being held) Spirit magic id like to see mana clash, drain mana, summon wisp and a summon spirit that either attacks or can emit healing to you when you attack someone (whereas creation magic heals you and the party, the spirit version is a little more selfish).
Combat: Finishers would be great. Especially based on the last attack. Sword cuts them in down Blades shred Magic either reduces to ash, or turns to ice and shatters or stone burst from the ground entraps them in a stone tomb. Also cinematic would be nice, but might be odd. If I'm a Mage that specialises in Stone magic, I don't want to see my enemy wreathed in flames, or my sword and shield tank whip out a massive zweihander of anime proportions to carve up an enemy.
Novas: I found nova abilities to be an interesting addition to the game but am happy whether they appear in a next game or not.
Pie-In-The-Sky: Most of my ideas hahahahahaha
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Blaze
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Post by Blaze on Aug 9, 2017 6:10:57 GMT
i feel the 4 schools of magic has been neglected. it's understandable mechanic wise since with moving to a new engine there wasn't enough time and resources to give the abilities the amount of attention they gave them in DA2. however it was also neglected lore wise which i have a problem with. in a banter between the iron bull and vivienne she tell him about magical abilities and make refrencce to it in a similar manner it is in the game, even though in the lore 3 of those are part of the same school of magic, though it can be argued that she was just keeping it simple for his sake.
generally i think combat wise we should get more diverse abilities based on the schools of magic, i mean mages are OP anyway, doesn't mean they can't be colorful as well =D
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Post by naughtynomad on Aug 9, 2017 8:29:28 GMT
i feel the 4 schools of magic has been neglected. it's understandable mechanic wise since with moving to a new engine there wasn't enough time and resources to give the abilities the amount of attention they gave them in DA2. however it was also neglected lore wise which i have a problem with. in a banter between the iron bull and vivienne she tell him about magical abilities and make refrencce to it in a similar manner it is in the game, even though in the lore 3 of those are part of the same school of magic, though it can be argued that she was just keeping it simple for his sake. generally i think combat wise we should get more diverse abilities based on the schools of magic, i mean mages are OP anyway, doesn't mean they can't be colorful as well =D Yep, I would like to see a return to the 4 schools.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 15:04:43 GMT
I don't like cross-classes since DnD times. I love clear identity.
I would like to have Healer, Shapeshifter, and Summoner trees.
I want combat to be like DA2.
I don't want locked-out specializations tied into a gathering questline/trainers/PITA.
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Post by naughtynomad on Aug 9, 2017 15:44:30 GMT
I don't like cross-classes since DnD times. I love clear identity.
I would like to have Healer, Shapeshifter, and Summoner trees.
I want combat to be like DA2.
I don't want locked-out specializations tied into a gathering questline/trainers/PITA. Shapeshifter is a cross class tree though... A mage who can tank in bear form or melee dps.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 16:00:10 GMT
I don't like cross-classes since DnD times. I love clear identity.
I would like to have Healer, Shapeshifter, and Summoner trees.
I want combat to be like DA2.
I don't want locked-out specializations tied into a gathering questline/trainers/PITA. Shapeshifter is a cross class tree though... A mage who can tank in bear form or melee dps. I consider it a Mage, because we do not have a Priest core class in DA. To me cross-class gains access to trees from other classes, and starts cherry-picking points in each core class. If it's a skill tree that only mages will see, I am fine with it.
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Post by Element Zero on Aug 14, 2017 5:37:04 GMT
Nice thread, Hrungr! I'd like to see both hybrid classes and a greater number of specializations. I'd like to be able to play as magical warrior, rather than as a mage who swings a weapon, for instance. I honestly hate DA's gameplay. I think it's horrific. I'd much prefer this be a true Action RPG, rather than the stiff, pseudo-tactical mess it's become. I know that a total redesign like this will never happen; so I just enjoy the series for it's great lore and over-arching story. Some of the Focus abilities were effective, but I wouldn't call them fun. They simply weren't accessible often enough to be enjoyable. Plus, there's that whole "I hate the gameplay" issue.
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Hrungr
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Post by Hrungr on Aug 14, 2017 5:54:35 GMT
Nice thread, Hrungr ! I'd like to see both hybrid classes and a greater number of specializations. I'd like to be able to play as magical warrior, rather than as a mage who swings a weapon, for instance. I honestly hate DA's gameplay. I think it's horrific. I'd much prefer this be a true Action RPG, rather than the stiff, pseudo-tactical mess it's become. I know that a total redesign like this will never happen; so I just enjoy the series for it's great lore and over-arching story. Some of the Focus abilities were effective, but I wouldn't call them fun. They simply weren't accessible often enough to be enjoyable. Plus, there's that whole "I hate the gameplay" issue. There have been rumblings that DA4 will incorporate more action-oriented elements. And Mike mentioned in an interview that combat will an area of focus for them in the next game. So it sounds like it'll at least shift in that direction, just a question of how far. And agreed on the Focus abilities, but there are those I do enjoy (on the occasions I do get to use them). I like the idea on principle though, and would like to see it refined, and accessible more often.
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Post by outlaworacle on Aug 16, 2017 19:16:48 GMT
I kind of like that they've kept everything blood simple with just 3 classes, but I wouldn't mind if they went the Mass Effect route and also offered up 3 hybrids as well (Warrior/Rogue, Warrior/Mage and Rogue/Mage).
I would play the shite out of a Rogue/Mage! Especially if we're in Tevinter.
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Post by Warrick on Aug 17, 2017 14:10:46 GMT
Ways to avoid or pull out of combat. Charm, Sleep, Paralyzing prison, Horror, Enslave, assorted summons, Evade...
The disengage option from DAI should stay. I'm fine with not getting loot if that's the price to pay (Horror'd foes should have a chance to at least drop their weapon and flee). Other things from DAI I liked are the mage-only lines and the "energize" environmental stuff.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Aug 17, 2017 23:46:54 GMT
I kind of like that they've kept everything blood simple with just 3 classes, but I wouldn't mind if they went the Mass Effect route and also offered up 3 hybrids as well (Warrior/Rogue, Warrior/Mage and Rogue/Mage). I would play the shite out of a Rogue/Mage! Especially if we're in Tevinter. Going to tevinter gives a good excuse to introduce these classes since they're mages aren't going have the same restrictions on training and movements that the southern circles have. If a mage wants learn to wield a blade whose going to stop them? Who'd even want to?
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Post by naughtynomad on Aug 18, 2017 1:33:05 GMT
I still like the idea of a mage monk who does rapid melee attacks with elemental magic infused punches. This would be a good example of a cross-class specialization that lets a mage take the role of a rogue in a group.
Thus giving you more flexibility in which companions you want to travel with.
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apollexander
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Post by apollexander on Aug 18, 2017 18:00:55 GMT
Core Classes: Would you prefer it be kept the same as in previous games (Warrior / Rogue / Mage) or would you like to see that expanded to include new base classes? Hybrid Classes perhaps? Introduce a Warrior-Mage, a Mage-Rogue, and a Warrior-Rogue base class. DAMP explored some of these themes with its classes. No need to introduce new classes. They should focus on the current classes, because there are specializations. Tricks can be done on specializations.
Specializations: As we're heading north in the next game, are there certain specs you'd like to see? Blood Magic specializations (Blood Mage, Reaver, Blood... Rogue)? Fade-Based? Tevinter Military? Ancient Elven? Titan-Based? Qunari? Blood Mage of course. I also would like to see the return of spirit warrior. And I love that only one specialization could be chosen, and every specialization is more distinct from each other.
Schools/Spells: What were your favorites in DAI? Any from prior games you'd like to see back? Did you like the Ability Tree structure in DAI? Would you change it in some way? Any ideas you've wanted to see, or have seen in other games, that would work well in DA? I love Shield Block, Spirit Blade (v1.10), long shot. Fireball, silence, and bard songs. I like the ability tree structure in Trespasser. I would like to be able to change the upgrade during combats. I wish we could make more use of the team-collaboration. I want to build some formations, like 2 melee at front and 2 ranged at back, or 1 melee at front, two melee at flank and 1 mage at back. Well, that must require very good AI scripts.
Combat: How did you like the feel in DAI? How about Mana & Mana Regen? Reliance on Barrier? What would you change? Would you prefer a more action-oriented approach on the battlefield (more mobility, active magical blocks/evades, perhaps shake up how basic attacks are handled) or more "hands off"? Armor & Weapons? Anything new you'd like to see here? Cinematic finishers (aka "Glory Kills")? The best in the franchise except the stupid AI. Mana is too much like stamina. They should work by different mechanisms. I would like mana being similar as in previous DA. I wouldn't mind a more action-oriented game but I still hope there are abilities. I think I can accept as few as six abilities. Maybe spear. And different weapons, like swords and axes, should be more distinct when striking. A few may be welcome. I'm not very interested. However, I would like that you and one of the companions finish an enemy together.
Novas: Did you like DAI's Focus Abilities and how they were handled? What would change (frequency/power/how Focus is accumulated)? Any new Nova powers you'd like to see? Like that. They need to be balanced. For instance, the focus ability of the assassin is too weak. One way is to let combos accelerate the accumulation. Another way is to nerf it while accelerate the accumulation. I also hope the focus ability does not occupy one ability slot. Mount and Blade?
One more thing: I think the enemies, at least most of the humanoid ones, should use the same abilities as us. That feels more consistent with lores.
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Post by mattjamho on Aug 21, 2017 16:57:00 GMT
One more thing: I think the enemies, at least most of the humanoid ones, should use the same abilities as us. That feels more consistent with lores.
I definitely agree with this, particularly mages. It'd make them a lot more challenging, if they had a variety of spells and talents to use against us, particularly some wide, heavy damage AOE spells. I really hated the 3 flavour mages in DAI, they were basically just the same opponent with different coloured spells. The Sarabass in DA2, in fact most mages in that game, demanded your focus straight away. The amount of time a quanri or blood mage wiped out most of my team with one spell was crazy. I'd like to see this challenge back.
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Post by duskwanderer on Aug 25, 2017 2:13:59 GMT
What would I like to see:
1.) The PC should have different abilities from the companions
The PC should feel special. We decide his face. His hair, his eyes, his everything. They shouldn't feel just like part of a crowd I can switch around. There's nothing wrong with switching to a mage when my PC is a warrior, that's fine. But remember that I made that warrior, just as many other players made their own. They should feel different.
2.) The PC should have an extra, unique ability. But make it a mundane one
BioWARE had the right idea with the Mark, and I really liked the way it was presented during the Fade quest. But it was still a weird, mystical thing. I'd much prefer a mundane thing based on the PC's past. Set a past for the PC and give some skills based on it. If, for example, we were Antivan Crows, give a few unique skills useful to any class (like a boost to attack for a short period) that referenced it.
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Post by cloud9 on Oct 8, 2017 5:44:19 GMT
It would be very cool if this can be a specialization or an augmentation of using martial arts with elemental magic with my protagonist.
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Post by theascendent on Oct 8, 2017 11:33:38 GMT
What I want explored is the uniqueness of magic both it's rewards and dangers. Since we're likely going to be in Tevinter, the most pro Mage (at least in terms of human nobility) country in Thedas, certain content and situations should be more favourable towards mages. I also want more risk involved, despite being an active demon magnet barely any demons showed interest in the Warden, Hawke and the Inquisitor. If they do introduce a day/night cycle and if our Mage PC goes to sleep we should be able to traverse the Fade, giving us unique opportunities and dangers. It's important not to diminish other classes so certain paths or situations should be forbidden for mages. For instance no sane Mage would ever willingly join the Qunari, and an Elven rogue/warrior would have little love for Tevinter. Probably not going to happen, but it's nice to speculate.
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Post by yeah rip on Jan 16, 2018 18:06:46 GMT
Core Classes: I'm okay with the standard warrior-rogue-mage class loadout. I wouldn't mind the possibility to have a hybrid playstyle without having actual hybrid classes, because that would make things overly complicated imo. I think just having some specs that make it look like a hybrid class would suffice, like Arcane Warrior or Tempest. And to be honest, I felt like I actually was playing a mage rogue with my Surana. Conjuring an oil puddle for the enemies to slip on and then setting it on fire feels pretty rogue-like to me, plus all the entropy debuffs.
Specializations: I'd like a blood mage spec this time, only if it would make sense in the setting. The devs were rigfht to take the blood magic out of DAI because no-one would follow a blood mage Herald. Some people were already iffy about the death mage spec (forgot what it was called). But since we're going to Tevinter and things seem to getting pretty dire in Thedas, I think people/followers of the PC would be more tolerant of them being a blood mage. As for rogues and warriors, some abilities that are directly designed to counter magic would be nice. Tevinter doesn't have real templars, but maybe there are some underground resistance kind of groups that are specifically designing some tricks that would let them have a fighting chance against the magisters. Alternatively, some specific anti-Qunari abilities would be neat too.
Schools/Spells: What were your favorites in DAI? none, to be perfectly honest. DA2 dumbed down magic considerably, but it was still fun. DAI made it straight up boring, imo. There are some neat spells in every tree - static cage, fade step - but overall, playing a mage had never been duller, imo. Especially nuker mage. Any from prior games you'd like to see back? The entire entropy and healing trees would be nice. Also, Force Mage has to come back. And not in a fractured state like it was in DAI. This class was a gem in DA2 and it's sad that they rejected in in DAI. Also, better combos than just Shatter - bring back the Storm of the Century. And I know it was ridiculously OP, but I would be delighted to have Mana Clash back. Did you like the Ability Tree structure in DAI? Would you change it in some way? More spells, less passives, maybe more sustained abilities, without a timer.
Combat: How did you like the feel in DAI? Boring, as I said. Less passives, more spells and more ability slots in combat would go a long way. How about Mana & Mana Regen? Reliance on Barrier? What would you change? Barrier should be a sustained ability without a timer attached, but honestly, I rarely ever use a barrier anyway and I don't like how a lot of abilities in DAI have something to do with it. Would you prefer a more action-oriented approach on the battlefield (more mobility, active magical blocks/evades, perhaps shake up how basic attacks are handled) or more "hands off"? Personally, mobility and blocking wasn't a priority for me when I'm playing as mages, but the option would be nice. More versatility is always welcome. Cinematic finishers (aka "Glory Kills")? Would be neat if they included some slow-mo kills like in DAO, but it would have to be class-specific so we wouldn't have mages awkwardly stabbing something in the head with a staff.
Novas: Did you like DAI's Focus Abilities and how they were handled? Not at all. All of the existing focus abilities should be (and in fact were, in previous games) in the basic skill trees. Either come up with something cooler or get rid of focus mechanic entirely.
Pie-In-The-Sky: Your most outlandish ideas that you're 99% certain would never see the light o' day. Not sure how outlandish it is since we could do it in DAO, but I really wish we could have the option of casting without a staff.
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Post by Hrungr on Jan 17, 2018 2:06:07 GMT
It'd be nice to see more fun melee options (like Hawke's Blade-Staff, or Tevinter Spear-Staff), or just fun weapon options period. For example, maybe take the Rock Armor/Ice Armor idea to the next level and have spells that allow you to rampage around the battlefield like a giant golem or elemental. Fire/Ice/Storm/Necromantic? I also loved this visual of (Crushing Prison?) from the DA2 trailer. Reaching through portals to rip enemies apart...? That needs to make a comeback.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Jan 17, 2018 2:46:16 GMT
It'd be nice to see more fun melee options (like Hawke's Blade-Staff, or Tevinter Spear-Staff), or just fun weapon options period. For example, maybe take the Rock Armor/Ice Armor idea to the next level and have spells that allow you to rampage around the battlefield like a giant golem or elemental. Fire/Ice/Storm/Necromantic? I also loved this visual of (Crushing Prison?) from the DA2 trailer. Reaching through portals to rip enemies apart...? That needs to make a comeback. The crushing prison thing was one of my favourite 'little things' from DA2. The only issue was that it was so difficult to use. Needed the upgraded crushing prison and it only worked on ogres who were...I think.... below 25% health?? And how many ogres were there in DA2? And you met one of them way too early. But yes to all the rest. Perhaps special afflictions from each? Fire leaves enemies you hit burning (unless immune), Ice - frozen/chilled, Rock - Sundered, Lightning - weakened/stunned?
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