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Post by smilesja on Aug 8, 2017 17:08:07 GMT
I haven't called anyone blind or tasteless. I said that: a) There's a lot of apologists for Andromeda on this forum. Here's the definition, because you seem to think it's a bad word - "a person who offers an argument in defense of something controversial" - saying Andromeda is a great game, is controversial. Actually, it's a just an opinion. Calling people apologists is hanging a derogatory label on them because they happen to like something that you dislike. The very notion that something needs to be defended suggests that there is something wrong with it. Example: Some people really dislike the taste (and smell) of liver, while others enjoy it. People who like liver are not liver apologists; they simply like something that others do not. By setting yourself up as an individual with "higher" standards, you are proclaiming that those whose tastes do not align with yours necessarily have lower standards than yours. This declares you as having superior tastes, thus anyone who does not share them must have inferior tastes. You really don't get it, do you? Considering he criticized Colfoley for apparabtely presenting his opinion as fact. No. Anyway on topic: I hope little time will pass in the sequel. It'll be a waste to not see Ryder and his companions grow.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 17:47:00 GMT
6-12 months is plenty of time for the dust to settle, the Nexus to be fully built, the other colonists to come out of cryo, the vaults to completely shift the climate of the outpost worlds, etc. With an influx of people from cryo pods, the Eos outpost could grow to annex the initial failed outposts. I'd like to see some permanent structures built, too, along with the modular buildings. If it's set too far into the future, it will feel like Ryder dropped the ball with some of the threads left from MEA. They'd need to invent a good reason why she hasn't pursued those things until now. As for race selection - I could see playing each of the other Pathfinders (or some other specific character) for a specific mission, but would not ever want ME to support multiple races as the primary PC. Doing so would pretty much guarantee watered down characters, minimalist CC and armor choices, a much shorter game with fewer animations and fewer cutscenes where you see much emotional reaction on the PC's face. It simply would not be worth the cost. I find this funny. Dragon Age Inquisitions had all those things and it was if not better at least on par with Andromeda in all those things you listed as trade offs... Then laugh all you like. DA's fantasy races all have similar facial features and expressions. They all look essentially human, with somewhat different body builds and proportions. They can use the same CC and facial animations for all of them. The qunari had hornstyles in exchange for hairstyles. Animating facial expressions on a turian or salarian is very different from a human. Most of them use the exact same mesh, with different color textures applied. If it was easy to create a CC for asari, I believe we would not have seen the asari clone army in the game. DA's very first game supported race selection. The ME team has never suggested they would be interested in trying to do that, and have created a much wider variety of species.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 17:55:51 GMT
@pasquale makes a great point on animations, and in additions, well, heads, heads, heads and heads. Apparently, not cheap, even for Asari.
I'd rather play Ryder & sooner, and enjoy playing all other races in MP, where they don't really have emotional cutscenes. Now, in MP, there gotta be more races than now.
Also, more Helius races in SP.
Overall, after my personal Inquisition fiasco, I prefer a "And now, Ryders' story continues!" game in about 2 to 10 years later sequel. If not, I want it to be set 50+ years into the future to bring in all new cast. I don't like the whole "dump the protagonist, keep his/her former companions as unkillable uber-chars" in Inquisition. Don't want to see it in ME.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 8, 2017 18:01:15 GMT
It depends on what happens in dlc's.
As I said in another thread, I like the sequel to take place about a month after the events of MEA. The kett attack the Nexus destroying it. Whatever survivors there are, find their way to Eos. At that time, Ryder and whoever try to find a way to deal with the kett.
If dlc's answer the questions left unanswered, I would be ok if Ryder were to return, minus a couple squadmates, or have a new main character with the game taking place however far in the future.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 8, 2017 18:03:07 GMT
they should wait for maybe a thousand years, then have the races in Andromeda getting utterly wiped out by the reapers. ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL. excellent
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Post by colfoley on Aug 8, 2017 18:51:51 GMT
...
I'm having a severe case of deja vu.
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Post by danishgambit on Aug 8, 2017 18:53:12 GMT
I don't think they need to abandon Ryder but they definitely need to make him a bit more mature. He took a lot of crap he shouldn't have and it was really easy to see why Cora was supposed to lead... Maybe that's what they were going for? Idunno... The atmosphere was a bit too dude-bro for my liking. It doesn't need to be grim dark but the possibility of everyone dying was pretty real and everyone pretty much just acted like they were on the Presidium lol.
I also hope this isn't yet another epic. I'm really tired of being the chosen one all the time lol. Something like Firefly would be much more interesting to me. You just get a bunch of folks trying to make a living and none of them are extraordinary (except River) but they manage to do some really cool stuff anyway.
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Post by danishgambit on Aug 8, 2017 19:00:22 GMT
... I'm having a severe case of deja vu.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Aug 8, 2017 19:01:57 GMT
Both storylines MUST come together and the Ryder twins have to fight each other and their respective teams have to fight each other and you the player can decide which team dies. You can stop a civil war before it begins or start a civil war that tears the AI in half. [be] You had me up to this point. That is SO out of place in the world and things they already built. Fans always complaining about "choices and consequences not mattering" I was thinking of a major choice that will have consequences that would at least force BioWare to deal with them, and hopeful in a way that isn't predictable, (like maybe avoiding the civil war might not be the "good", "right", or "correct" path) and a possible civil war with another threat on the horizon would make a great cliffhanger for a massive expansion pack and/or a whole another game.
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Post by danishgambit on Aug 8, 2017 19:06:38 GMT
I never thought about changing the protagonist in Mass Effect. I'm not a fan of Andromeda's story tbh and a fresh new story could be really great. But then you don't get to build on your character which I guess is one of the things that separates Mass Effect from Dragon Age. Then again, a pretty common complaint is that Ryder is typically just agreeing with everyone in different tones... I don't know. I guess I wouldn't mind either way as long as the story was good.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 19:14:41 GMT
Eh, no. ME:A2 should take place soon after ME:A and revolve around Ryder and his/her crew. There are far to many story threads left hanging loose to just jump forward and start over... again. /thread
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Post by Cyberstrike on Aug 8, 2017 19:19:49 GMT
I haven't called anyone blind or tasteless. I said that: a) There's a lot of apologists for Andromeda on this forum. Here's the definition, because you seem to think it's a bad word - "a person who offers an argument in defense of something controversial" - saying Andromeda is a great game, is controversial. Actually, it's a just an opinion. Calling people apologists is hanging a derogatory label on them because they happen to like something that you dislike. The very notion that something needs to be defended suggests that there is something wrong with it. Example: Some people really dislike the taste (and smell) of liver, while others enjoy it. People who like liver are not liver apologists; they simply like something that others do not. By setting yourself up as an individual with "higher" standards, you are proclaiming that those whose tastes do not align with yours necessarily have lower standards than yours. This declares you as having superior tastes, thus anyone who does not share them must have inferior tastes. You really don't get it, do you? I also said in certain contexts calling someone an apologist is a major insult like calling someone a Nazi apologist, who isn't, that would be a serious insult. And before suikoden has another fit, I am NOT asserting or saying that you are and/or has called anybody here a Nazi apologist. So spare me playing the victim because again I'm NOT calling you that or saying and/or asserting that you have called any one a Nazi apologist because as far as I know you haven't done that. What I am trying to point out that calling someone an apologist, even for a video game, it could be considered an insult and/or is an insult. Please try to learn what words in some contexts mean.
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Post by danishgambit on Aug 8, 2017 19:21:14 GMT
[be] You had me up to this point. That is SO out of place in the world and things they already built. Fans always complaining about "choices and consequences not mattering" I was thinking of a major choice that will have consequences that would at least force BioWare to deal with them, and hopeful in a way that isn't predictable, (like maybe avoiding the civil war might not be the "good", "right", or "correct" path) and a possible civil war with another threat on the horizon would make a great cliffhanger for a massive expansion pack and/or a whole another game. Well killing off characters is one way to make choices seem to matter lol... But there are other ways to do it without going the Captain America Civil War Route. Don't get me wrong; I don't like how Bioware characters have such amazing plot armor these days but there are a lot of other things they could do to make choices have more weight. One of the most talked about decisions in ME3 is whether or not to kill Mordin. And although the choice may have had some emotional effect it wasn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Mordin wasn't going to be integral to the story anyway and even if Wrex found out it wouldn't change anything. I mean you get a nice cutscene but that's about it.
I remember in the Angry Joe review of DAI Joe talked about how there was a lack of making Skyhold seem meaningful. A battle at Skyhold or even some cutscenes showing it was attacked would have made it seem like there was a real point to building up your resources and there would've obviously been some real investment and emotion seeing what you built up be attacked by enemies. Watching allies you've gained fight with you would've been amazing and make you feel like doing all this stuff had some meaning to it. Stuff like that Bioware isn't really doing for some reason and it's really what they need to do imo.
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Post by suikoden on Aug 8, 2017 19:36:11 GMT
Actually, it's a just an opinion. Calling people apologists is hanging a derogatory label on them because they happen to like something that you dislike. The very notion that something needs to be defended suggests that there is something wrong with it. Example: Some people really dislike the taste (and smell) of liver, while others enjoy it. People who like liver are not liver apologists; they simply like something that others do not. By setting yourself up as an individual with "higher" standards, you are proclaiming that those whose tastes do not align with yours necessarily have lower standards than yours. This declares you as having superior tastes, thus anyone who does not share them must have inferior tastes. You really don't get it, do you? I also said in certain contexts calling someone an apologist is a major insult like calling someone a Nazi apologist would be a serious insult (unless they are Nazis then it's description). And before suikoden has another hissy fit, I am NOT asserting or saying that you are or called anybody a Nazi apologist, but I am trying to point out that calling someone an apologist even for a video game is an insult and/or could be considered an insult depending on how serious the person takes it. Being an apologist means you're giving an argument in defence of something that is controversial. Defending Andromeda is an apologist argument to make because there are clearly people on either side that either love it or hate it. Being a Nazi apologist (really...) is ridiculous because there is no defensive argument to be made, as the entire world agrees they are the definition of evil. It's not a bad or derogatory word. You're taking it as an insult because you don't know what the word means.
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 8, 2017 19:36:32 GMT
My main issue with the term 'apologist' is that although it's a fairly weak insult it's also fairly meaningless.
I like vanilla ice cream, does that make me an apologist for vanilla ice cream?
(many consider it bland and not up there with chocolate or strawberry, but I like it...)
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Post by Cyberstrike on Aug 8, 2017 19:45:14 GMT
I also said in certain contexts calling someone an apologist is a major insult like calling someone a Nazi apologist would be a serious insult (unless they are Nazis then it's description). And before suikoden has another hissy fit, I am NOT asserting or saying that you are or called anybody a Nazi apologist, but I am trying to point out that calling someone an apologist even for a video game is an insult and/or could be considered an insult depending on how serious the person takes it. Being an apologist means you're giving an argument in defence of something that is controversial. Defending Andromeda is an apologist argument to make because there are clearly people on either side that either love it or hate it. Being a Nazi apologist (really...) is ridiculous because there is no defensive argument to be made, as the entire world agrees they are the definition of evil. It's not a bad or derogatory word. You're taking it as an insult because you don't know what the word means. Actually I do, but I also know what context is something you clearly don't know anything about or you just refuse to understand.
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Post by suikoden on Aug 8, 2017 19:45:16 GMT
My main issue with the term 'apologist' is that although it's a fairly weak insult it's also fairly meaningless. I like vanilla ice cream, does that make me an apologist for vanilla ice cream? (many consider it bland and not up there with chocolate or strawberry, but I like it...) I don't see how it's an insult at all. You liking vanilla isn't controversial. A better example would be, say, a Christian apologist - which again isn't an insult. I'll stop using the word though if that makes people feel better.
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Post by suikoden on Aug 8, 2017 19:46:39 GMT
Being an apologist means you're giving an argument in defence of something that is controversial. Defending Andromeda is an apologist argument to make because there are clearly people on either side that either love it or hate it. Being a Nazi apologist (really...) is ridiculous because there is no defensive argument to be made, as the entire world agrees they are the definition of evil. It's not a bad or derogatory word. You're taking it as an insult because you don't know what the word means. Actually I do, but I also know what context is something you clearly don't know anything about or you just refuse to understand. You clearly don't - or you wouldn't have mentioned "apologist" and "nazi" together. Let's just drop it and move on.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 19:58:18 GMT
Fans always complaining about "choices and consequences not mattering" I was thinking of a major choice that will have consequences that would at least force BioWare to deal with them, and hopeful in a way that isn't predictable, (like maybe avoiding the civil war might not be the "good", "right", or "correct" path) and a possible civil war with another threat on the horizon would make a great cliffhanger for a massive expansion pack and/or a whole another game. Well killing off characters is one way to make choices seem to matter lol... But there are other ways to do it without going the Captain America Civil War Route. Don't get me wrong; I don't like how Bioware characters have such amazing plot armor these days but there are a lot of other things they could do to make choices have more weight. One of the most talked about decisions in ME3 is whether or not to kill Mordin. And although the choice may have had some emotional effect it wasn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Mordin wasn't going to be integral to the story anyway and even if Wrex found out it wouldn't change anything. I mean you get a nice cutscene but that's about it.
I remember in the Angry Joe review of DAI Joe talked about how there was a lack of making Skyhold seem meaningful. A battle at Skyhold or even some cutscenes showing it was attacked would have made it seem like there was a real point to building up your resources and there would've obviously been some real investment and emotion seeing what you built up be attacked by enemies. Watching allies you've gained fight with you would've been amazing and make you feel like doing all this stuff had some meaning to it. Stuff like that Bioware isn't really doing for some reason and it's really what they need to do imo.
I expect that people would have complained about having to defend the Keep again, since we did it in NWN2 already, and in Origins too, and we've fought with the full cast in SWTOR, in suicide mission in ME2, in Origins again... they can recycle stuff only so many times. After all, one of the primary complaints about Andromeda is that it is a repetition of subplots in MET. Hells, we even defended haven in DA3 already. I for one am happy I did not have to defend Skyhold. As mind-numbingly boring as the Elven library was in Trespasser, at least it was not Defending the Keep...
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Post by Vall on Aug 8, 2017 19:59:40 GMT
I would say 5-10 years would be better, it allows enough time for the AI and the angara to get their shit together then have the antagonists tear it apart. Plus I would love to see a duel protagonist game (the only story based game that I've know that did is Legacy of Kain: Defiance) where you have to play as BOTH Ryder twins. They should make the Ryder twin that you didn't play the Governor of Meridian (or something to that effect) and have him/her gather a crew of new characters (and maybe some from the Tempest) and they chase down the benefactor/Garson's murder, deal with a major political scandal that can shatter the alliance with the angara that could lead to a civil war between some of the colonies and the Nexus and they have to deal with the "dark side" of Alex Ryder's legacy. While Pathfinder Ryder (the one you play in ME:A) is looking for more worlds to colonize, info on the Jardaan and the kett, the quarian ark and a cure for Ellen Ryder, dealing with the romantic relationship problems, various problems the crew of the Tempest are having, plus having to deal with whatever the new threat is. Both storylines MUST come together and the Ryder twins and their respective teams have to fight each other and you the player can decide which team dies. With the final decision being that you can stop a civil war before it begins or start a civil war that threatens to tear the AI in half. I reaaally don't like this idea. Why? Forcing you to play character who isn't "your" Ryder. It can work for something like Joker saving the Normandy, but a whole game split between 2 characters...it takes away from your protagonist. It might work in something like GTA 5, or AC: Syndicate because those characters are preset, they have their place in the world they inhabit and you can't really influence their actions. Bioware protagonist though? You shape their personality, their place in the world. And that would be diminished if you split the focus between 2 characters. Not to mention forcing them to fight at the end, no matter what their personal feelings might be. IMHO, preferable way to deal with the sibling would be to make them NPC member of Tempest team, as they were supposed to be before their pod got busted. You wouldn't control them, they would simply be your Ryder's sibling. Maybe let you pick their class/powers at the beginning, to let you have one companion with actually customizable power selection. I guess you could spin that as making their personalities canon, but that happens anyway if you keep them as NPC. Another way would be to kill them off for drama but...didn't we have enough family drama already? Or you could put them in Virmire situation vs another squadmate, or put them in 1 life against many situation if you really want that drama of emotion clashing with logic. ...that's just my opinion though, no need to go spread it around :ninja:
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 20:03:52 GMT
I would say 5-10 years would be better, it allows enough time for the AI and the angara to get their shit together then have the antagonists tear it apart. Plus I would love to see a duel protagonist game (the only story based game that I've know that did is Legacy of Kain: Defiance) where you have to play as BOTH Ryder twins. They should make the Ryder twin that you didn't play the Governor of Meridian (or something to that effect) and have him/her gather a crew of new characters (and maybe some from the Tempest) and they chase down the benefactor/Garson's murder, deal with a major political scandal that can shatter the alliance with the angara that could lead to a civil war between some of the colonies and the Nexus and they have to deal with the "dark side" of Alex Ryder's legacy. While Pathfinder Ryder (the one you play in ME:A) is looking for more worlds to colonize, info on the Jardaan and the kett, the quarian ark and a cure for Ellen Ryder, dealing with the romantic relationship problems, various problems the crew of the Tempest are having, plus having to deal with whatever the new threat is. Both storylines MUST come together and the Ryder twins and their respective teams have to fight each other and you the player can decide which team dies. With the final decision being that you can stop a civil war before it begins or start a civil war that threatens to tear the AI in half. I reaaally don't like this idea. Why? Forcing you to play character who isn't "your" Ryder. It can work for something like Joker saving the Normandy, but a whole game split between 2 characters...it takes away from your protagonist. It might work in something like GTA 5, or AC: Syndicate because those characters are preset, they have their place in the world they inhabit and you can't really influence their actions. Bioware protagonist though? You shape their personality, their place in the world. And that would be diminished if you split the focus between 2 characters. Not to mention forcing them to fight at the end, no matter what their personal feelings might be. IMHO, preferable way to deal with the sibling would be to make them NPC member of Tempest team, as they were supposed to be before their pod got busted. You wouldn't control them, they would simply be your Ryder's sibling. Maybe let you pick their class/powers at the beginning, to let you have one companion with actually customizable power selection. I guess you could spin that as making their personalities canon, but that happens anyway if you keep them as NPC. Another way would be to kill them off for drama but...didn't we have enough family drama already? Or you could put them in Virmire situation vs another squadmate, or put them in 1 life against many situation if you really want that drama of emotion clashing with logic. ...that's just my opinion though, no need to go spread it around :ninja: Agreed. A short cameo by the twin is okay, NPC twin is okay, dual protagonist is far too much troubles, particularly with forced gender and name.
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Cyberstrike
is wanting to have some fun!
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August 2016
cyberstrike
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Cyberstrike on Aug 8, 2017 20:05:28 GMT
Actually I do, but I also know what context is something you clearly don't know anything about or you just refuse to understand. You clearly don't - or you wouldn't have mentioned "apologist" and "nazi" together. Let's just drop it and move on. For once we agree on something. Hell must have frozen over or something.
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warrior
N3
I don't like MP!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Jun 26, 2017 22:00:50 GMT
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warrior
I don't like MP!
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warrior
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by warrior on Aug 8, 2017 20:12:47 GMT
I didn't even like switching to the twin for that one sequence. It felt pretty pointless.
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guest@proboards.com
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Nov 26, 2024 17:21:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 20:32:40 GMT
IMHO, preferable way to deal with the sibling would be to make them NPC member of Tempest team, as they were supposed to be before their pod got busted. You wouldn't control them, they would simply be your Ryder's sibling. Maybe let you pick their class/powers at the beginning, to let you have one companion with actually customizable power selection. It's an interesting idea, but I'm afraid we might end up with the Ashley/Kaidan situation. When you have more than one character who can fill the same role, neither of them get much content. I also think that any content they were given might seem pretty neutral, since they might be inclined to avoid imbuing a potential PC with much in the way of opinions. The class/powers idea is also interesting, but it is my understanding that each MEA companion had an AI tailored to them. That's why we couldn't swap their gear at all - their combat behavior was programmed with a specific assumed weapon. If you made a Ryder twin killable, you'd close the possibility of playing the other in a future installment if that file is imported.
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KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
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kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 8, 2017 20:38:27 GMT
I can't imagine BioWare creating so many voice tracks for more than asari and turian alongside humans. Again, that's 4 total tracks right there between those 3 species, and an additional 2 for every other race they add since they have to retain a signature sound. Inquisition largely got away with this by having the 4 tracks share between races, and even then one fell short, being the Dalish.
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