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Post by poultrymancer on Aug 7, 2017 6:21:13 GMT
The Piranha is one of my lowest URs at V, and I'm fortunate to have the Shorty at III, so I've been able to judge them at nearly equal levels.
The Shorty seems to me to have essentially rendered the Piranha entirely obsolete. They fill the same niche, but the Shorty outperforms the Piranha in every way. It's got a huge magazine, the accuracy to effective engage at midrange, and even primes reasonably well. Its only meaningful weaknesses are weight, which doesn't matter all that much, and spare ammo capacity, which is easy to mitigate.
I hope they don't nerf the Shorty to bring them to parity, because the Piranha always felt a shade underwhelming to me, at least in part because it eluded me for a long time and I unlocked it immediately after everything was buffed around it in 1.06. I never experienced it before the Dhan was a much better option.
So, thoughts? Does the Piranha need a buff? The Shorty a nerf? Both? Neither? Potato?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: TranscendedOne
PSN: Cornughon
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Post by Transcended One on Aug 7, 2017 7:20:28 GMT
I've been using the Piranha (X) a couple of times last week, but it DOES feel underwhelming. I think the RoF needs a buff in the very least.
I tried the Shorty (not X) last night, and it's WAY more powerful...
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Post by poultrymancer on Aug 7, 2017 7:39:01 GMT
The Shorty is at least slightly OP, but it feels to me like an UR should. It's Hurricane/Rozerad-level good.
The Piranha isn't appreciably better than the Scattershot*, after the latter's buff; it feels like a rare-tier weapon. I guess I'd kinda already felt that way, but now with the Shorty so vastly outperforming it within the same niche, it's become much more noticeable.
*Although to be fair, I'm comparing Scattershot X to Piranha V.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: TranscendedOne
PSN: Cornughon
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Post by Transcended One on Aug 7, 2017 8:41:52 GMT
The Shorty is at least slightly OP, but it feels to me like an UR should. It's Hurricane/Rozerad-level good. The Piranha isn't appreciably better than the Scattershot*, after the latter's buff; it feels like a rare-tier weapon. I guess I'd kinda already felt that way, but now with the Shorty so vastly outperforming it within the same niche, it's become much more noticeable. *Although to be fair, I'm comparing Scattershot X to Piranha V. I think both the Hesh and Scattershot are better choices than the Piranha... |
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Post by mydamnalterego on Aug 7, 2017 9:39:12 GMT
It would be enough to increase the Piranha's RoF (to at least 600 rpm) and slightly improve accuracy (for it doesn't have "kicks like a mule" in its description) to make it #greatagain.
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Post by ddrguy300 on Aug 7, 2017 11:38:36 GMT
This makes me sad... I really hope they buff the damage on the piranha. Despite the struggle to originally get it, I quite liked the rarity buff because of it's historical awesomeness and that it's an "N7" gun.
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Post by unclemonster on Aug 7, 2017 11:59:25 GMT
The Piranha is one of my lowest URs at V, and I'm fortunate to have the Shorty at III, so I've been able to judge them at nearly equal levels. The Shorty seems to me to have essentially rendered the Piranha entirely obsolete. They fill the same niche, but the Shorty outperforms the Piranha in every way. It's got a huge magazine, the accuracy to effective engage at midrange, and even primes reasonably well. Its only meaningful weaknesses are weight, which doesn't matter all that much, and spare ammo capacity, which is easy to mitigate. I hope they don't nerf the Shorty to bring them to parity, because the Piranha always felt a shade underwhelming to me, at least in part because it eluded me for a long time and I unlocked it immediately after everything was buffed around it in 1.06. I never experienced it before the Dhan was a much better option. So, thoughts? Does the Piranha need a buff? The Shorty a nerf? Both? Neither? Potato? Still only have Shorty I and I was initially underwhelmed. I need to give it another shot! |
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Post by JRandall0308 on Aug 7, 2017 13:00:36 GMT
Piranha has been obsolete since we got our Hesh's to 10.
Talon and Piranha are in the same boat: both need a ROF buff. Granted Talon is down to a Rare in this game, but bleh... so disappointed in both weapons!
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Post by gethadept on Aug 7, 2017 13:13:08 GMT
So the single best shotgun existed since MEAMP day 1 is now one of most underwhelming UR in the entire game?
...This says a lot... about what happened to this game over past few months...
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N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: TranscendedOne
PSN: Cornughon
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Post by Transcended One on Aug 7, 2017 14:54:39 GMT
So the single best shotgun existed since MEAMP day 1 is now one of most underwhelming UR in the entire game? ...This says a lot... about what happened to this game over past few months... It's more that other URs had better buffs than the Piranha. At least it's better than the Eagle and Valkyrie... |
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Post by poultrymancer on Aug 7, 2017 15:02:55 GMT
So the single best shotgun existed since MEAMP day 1 is now one of most underwhelming UR in the entire game? ...This says a lot... about what happened to this game over past few months... It's more that other URs had better buffs than the Piranha. At least it's better than the Eagle and Valkyrie... Was the Piranha ever buffed aside from the 1.06 pan-shotgun accuracy changes? I don't recall one. Thought it was still launch stats and the other shotguns had been all been buffed around it. Could be wrong. Agreed re Eagle/Valkyrie. Those are the only two URs I'd rank as clearly lesser than the Piranha. |
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: TranscendedOne
PSN: Cornughon
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Post by Transcended One on Aug 7, 2017 15:13:51 GMT
It's more that other URs had better buffs than the Piranha. At least it's better than the Eagle and Valkyrie... Was the Piranha ever buffed aside from the 1.06 pan-shotgun accuracy changes? I don't recall one. Thought it was still launch stats and the other shotguns had been all been buffed around it. Could be wrong. Agreed re Eagle/Valkyrie. Those are the only two URs I'd rank as clearly lesser than the Piranha. Aside from the Smart Choke fix I can't think of anything significant. |
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Post by kaileena_sands on Aug 7, 2017 15:23:31 GMT
Guyz, pls just don't get Shorty nerfed before I've had the chance to try it!  #stupidRNGstopgivingmeInfernos Also the Piranha is... mediocre. |
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Post by gethadept on Aug 7, 2017 15:26:25 GMT
So the single best shotgun existed since MEAMP day 1 is now one of most underwhelming UR in the entire game? ...This says a lot... about what happened to this game over past few months... It's more that other URs had better buffs than the Piranha. At least it's better than the Eagle and Valkyrie... Anyway, I have Shorty I. Should I start using it? I didn`t try it because its description says only negative things about it and nothing good. |
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N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: TranscendedOne
PSN: Cornughon
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Post by Transcended One on Aug 7, 2017 15:30:51 GMT
It's more that other URs had better buffs than the Piranha. At least it's better than the Eagle and Valkyrie... Anyway, I have Shorty I. Should I start using it? I didn`t try it because its description says only negative things about it and nothing good. Rule number one: Never believe descriptions (the Kroguard wasn't drunk, he was only a bit fuddled!) And yeah the Shorty is nice, and makes us believe burstfire weapons are the new cool! |
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Post by poultrymancer on Aug 7, 2017 15:42:36 GMT
It's more that other URs had better buffs than the Piranha. At least it's better than the Eagle and Valkyrie... Anyway, I have Shorty I. Should I start using it? I didn`t try it because its description says only negative things about it and nothing good. It's a beast. Basically a shotgun Hornet. The weight part is true, but by no means extreme. At level III its weight is 40, IIRC, so probably 40% of the character roster can use it without eating efficiency boosters or speccing to build around it (e.g. Weapon Mass Reduction). Any character with a passive 10% weight capacity can run it with 100% cooldowns. Many can run it with a sidearm. "Kicks like a mule" is meaningless flavor text. The recoil is negligible at close range and easily manageable at midrange. I was sniping down into the LZ on Sandstorm last night effectively. If it does get a nerf - which, to be clear, I DON'T want but may be warranted - my hope is that they just give it recoil commensurate with the description. That'd leave it very powerful in CQC but take away its midrange utility, which strikes me as fair. |
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Post by gethadept on Aug 7, 2017 15:49:03 GMT
Anyway, I have Shorty I. Should I start using it? I didn`t try it because its description says only negative things about it and nothing good. It's a beast. Basically a shotgun Hornet. The weight part is true, but by no means extreme. At level III its weight is 40, IIRC, so probably 40% of the character roster can use it without eating efficiency boosters or speccing to build around it (e.g. Weapon Mass Reduction). Any character with a passive 10% weight capacity can run it with 100% cooldowns. Many can run it with a sidearm. "Kicks like a mule" is meaningless flavor text. The recoil is negligible at close range and easily manageable at midrange. I was sniping down into the LZ on Sandstorm last night effectively. If it does get a nerf - which, to be clear, I DON'T want but may be warranted - my hope is that they just give it recoil commensurate with the description. That'd leave it very powerful in CQC but take away its midrange utility, which strikes me as fair. I doubt they will nerf it... Mainly because most people won`t even get a chance to use it. As long as we stay quiet here and other forums... it should be safe. |
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Post by JRandall0308 on Aug 7, 2017 16:14:02 GMT
As long as we stay quiet here and other forums... it should be safe. Too late? |
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Post by poultrymancer on Aug 7, 2017 16:24:55 GMT
As long as we stay quiet here and other forums... it should be safe. Too late? I doubt anything we say here is taken heavily into account. My impression has been that their balance changes are largely determined by use data. The only thing I've seen discussed here that ultimately was expressed as a balance change was the hack objective. |
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Post by JRandall0308 on Aug 7, 2017 16:28:38 GMT
I was going to go thru all the patch notes and point out which ones were topics of discussion here and on reddit, but suffice to say: a lot more than just the Hack objective.
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Post by gethadept on Aug 7, 2017 16:41:57 GMT
As long as we stay quiet here and other forums... it should be safe. Too late? I think it`s still ok. haha As long as the issue about Shorty doesn`t get too hot... it shouldn`t get any attention. |
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Post by squaredgonzo on Aug 7, 2017 16:43:11 GMT
I have the Shorty 10
Piranha 10
Hurrican 10
Roserad 10
I would take the Shorty over the Hurricane. Over the Roserad. I would trade my Hurrdur siphon and bulwark, my Koshock siphon and concussive, my BW
Conc and siphon for a shorty siphon.
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Post by XCPTNL on Aug 7, 2017 16:43:55 GMT
As long as we stay quiet here and other forums... it should be safe. Too late? Nah, don't worry. If Bioware actually looked at the game in order to try balancing it we'd have a much better game. They just roll some dice to determine which stuff they buff and nerf and then roll another dice to determine the new stats |
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Post by poultrymancer on Aug 7, 2017 17:07:14 GMT
I was going to go thru all the patch notes and point out which ones were topics of discussion here and on reddit, but suffice to say: a lot more than just the Hack objective. Fair enough. I don't see every thread here, and certainly don't read them all thoroughly. And I've only ever seen two Reddit MEA threads that I can recall, so I can't speak at all to what may have been discussed there. I'll take your word for it. That said, I have to wonder how much forum-to-balance interplay there is in cases in which the content of a thread isn't subsequently summarized and explicitly passed to devs via Twitch or Twitter. I doubt anyone will go into the next stream clamoring for a nerf of a gun only a small percentage of players have unlocked. In case a biodev does read this thread:
Please buff the Piranha and leave my Shawty alone! |
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Post by JRandall0308 on Aug 7, 2017 17:10:35 GMT
It's a fascinating topic because even if BSN were unanimous on something, that would be a unanimous opinion from like 0.1% of the playerbase. So... should Bioware care, or not?
Lots of debates in marketing and customer research circles. I don't claim to have the answers.
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