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Post by smilesja on Sept 9, 2017 16:03:25 GMT
Andromeda is a brand new galaxy that has a ton of mysteries that has yet to be solved. And thats fine, but why bring 9 MW races and only have 2 Andromeda races? You talk about new mysteries but yet the games ending doeant hint at a strange transmission from some mysterious/unheard of race/civilization....instead it hints at MW races coming. People want to explore new things but despite seemingly being annoyed with people wanting to go back to the MW, they seem pretty content with the slew of MW races in a non MW galaxy. Having the cake and eating it to. The Kett empire and the Jaardan have been hinted through out the game. Also, it's not about the Quarians themselves, but rather what is attacking them. |
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Post by Iakus on Sept 9, 2017 16:08:46 GMT
Because the Milky Way still had an entire relay network to explore as well as 99% of the galaxy untapped. It would not take a ridiculous breakthrough in technology that somehow ONLY affected the Andromeda Initiative and not the galaxy as a whole to make that happen. How is exploring some of the 100,000,000,000 stars inthe Milky Way galaxt "re-treading the same old places and things" again? So make the helius system part of the Milky Way and the initiative needed because the relays are still down. Now what? What's the difference? Besides all the "Andromeda" references and the ridiculous ODSY drives which are never mentioned or used in the trilogy despite their potentially revolutionary capabilities? Hey, I admit if they modified the story some, it could work. But the whole Andromeda galaxy was a rather transparent attempt on Bioware's part to have their cake and eat it too. To continue the series without admitting their "Art" royally f*cked up the franchise. They wanted to hit the reset button without actually resetting anything. And it didn't work. |
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Post by Iakus on Sept 9, 2017 16:09:06 GMT
And thats fine, but why bring 9 MW races and only have 2 Andromeda races? Not sure how you're getting to 9. The quarian ark never showed up in my game. But it will in an upcoming book. |
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 9, 2017 16:09:59 GMT
Technically, there are an infinite number of retcons available. Your proposal and IT are only two of them. As long as we're retconning anyway, I don't see the advantage of such a vague retcon. (Well, unless you're a stealth MEHEM fan and you're trying to smuggle that in as canon.) The advantage is every player can decide for themselves how ME3 ended. Can we? Can I decide it was standard-issue Destroy, or are you guys planning to still have the geth running around? Low-EMS Destroy looks to be off the table, as are many Control versions. All but stupidly-retconned versions of Synthesis go away. You're proposing canonizing some thing and decanonizing others. Be honest about it. |
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 9, 2017 16:12:54 GMT
So make the helius system part of the Milky Way and the initiative needed because the relays are still down. Now what? What's the difference? Besides all the "Andromeda" references and the ridiculous ODSY drives which are never mentioned or used in the trilogy despite their potentially revolutionary capabilities? You never were able to make a coherent case for what the ODSY drive would have changed in the couple of years it was around before ME3. One or two colonies might have been foundedwhich hadn't been feasible before, perhaps, but what of them? |
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Post by majesticjazz on Sept 9, 2017 16:13:43 GMT
And thats fine, but why bring 9 MW races and only have 2 Andromeda races? Not sure how you're getting to 9. The quarian ark never showed up in my game. But it will in a book which is canon. |
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Post by Iakus on Sept 9, 2017 16:14:30 GMT
The advantage is every player can decide for themselves how ME3 ended. Can we? Can I decide it was standard-issue Destroy, or are you guys planning to still have the geth running around? Low-EMS Destroy looks to be off the table, as are many Control versions. All but stupidly-retconned versions of Synthesis go away. You're proposing canonizing some thing and decanonizing others. Be honest about it. Let me clarify: The galaxy would be in a canon state for everyone. (whether or not this would include the geth, I dunno) However, how we got to that state would be up to individual headcanon. So yeah, low-EMS Destroy and such would likely be off the table. But high-EMS Destroy wouldn't necessarily be the case either. Or Control, for that matter. In the end, the Crucible did whatever you think appropriate to get the galaxy into this particular state of being. |
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 9, 2017 16:15:57 GMT
Not sure how you're getting to 9. The quarian ark never showed up in my game. But it will in an upcoming book. True. But so what? Putting new races in a book is cheap. Maybe we'll see new Andromeda races in the book too. And if not, we still know that there are plenty of new races in Andromeda that we haven't seen yet. It's not 9 vs. 2, it's 9 vs. dozens. |
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Post by Iakus on Sept 9, 2017 16:16:38 GMT
But it will in an upcoming book. True. But so what? Putting new races in a book is cheap. Maybe we'll see new Andromeda races in the book too. Maybe, but it's still canon. And would likely be addressed in a future game. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 9, 2017 16:16:44 GMT
Still not what vonuber was asking. But I guess I can kind of understand. After all many who seem against MEA with it being too much like the Milky Way are also suggesting doing a timeskip to where the civilization in Andromeda is even more like the Milky Way. It might not answer her question but it doesnt discredit my statement either. People want to have the cake and eat it to. They want out of the MW cause we had 3 games there and the story is finished (despite only seeing 1% of it) so they want to move on to Andromeda. Yet these same (I dont want to go back to the MW) people seemed to be fine with the idea that in terms of races, Andromeda was vert MW focused. So how do you feel about the people in your camp who complain that Andromeda is too much like the Milky Way and yet at the same time want it to be even more like the Milky Way? |
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Post by smilesja on Sept 9, 2017 16:18:58 GMT
I think some people don't want Destroy because it'll make the Geth and EDI extinct. That's why they gravitate towards control and synthesis since, in their eyes, it's the best chance for peace.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 9, 2017 16:19:41 GMT
Besides all the "Andromeda" references and the ridiculous ODSY drives which are never mentioned or used in the trilogy despite their potentially revolutionary capabilities? You never were able to make a coherent case for what the ODSY drive would have changed in the couple of years it was around before ME3. One or two colonies might have been foundedwhich hadn't been feasible before, perhaps, but what of them? They are ships with effectively unlimited range, not reliant on mass relays. And small enough to fit on a frigate. Yeah that would cause a new wave of colonization. Not to mention the quarians would have LOVED to get their hands on that tech for the Migrant Fleet. Plus the military aspects would be huge! |
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Post by Iakus on Sept 9, 2017 16:20:48 GMT
I think some people don't want Destroy because it'll make the Geth and EDI extinct. That's why they gravitate towards control and synthesis since, in their eyes, it's the best chance for peace. I hate Destroy for what it does to the geth and EDI. But even that pales before the other endings. How bad is it that becoming a genocidal monster worse than Saren is the "best" outcome? |
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 9, 2017 16:21:24 GMT
True. But so what? Putting new races in a book is cheap. Maybe we'll see new Andromeda races in the book too. Maybe, but it's still canon. And would likely be addressed in a future game. I'm just trying to figure out what the actual problem is. If we're talking about the races which we actually see and interact with, it's 5-2. If we count races which we don't see or interact with, it's 9 to ..... dozens? Hundreds? We know that there are plenty of races that the kett have preyed on. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 9, 2017 16:26:06 GMT
Maybe, but it's still canon. And would likely be addressed in a future game. I'm just trying to figure out what the actual problem is. If we're talking about the races which we actually see and interact with, it's 5-2. If we count races which we don't see or interact with, it's 9 to ..... dozens? Hundreds? We know that there are plenty of races that the kett have preyed on. Exactly. People need to remember that so far we have been in one cluster of Andromeda. Of course there are less aliens. But as we expand further and further into the galaxy as Bioware planned, more and more would appear. |
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 9, 2017 16:30:14 GMT
You never were able to make a coherent case for what the ODSY drive would have changed in the couple of years it was around before ME3. One or two colonies might have been foundedwhich hadn't been feasible before, perhaps, but what of them? They are ships with effectively unlimited range, not reliant on mass relays. And small enough to fit on a frigate. Yeah that would cause a new wave of colonization. Not to mention the quarians would have LOVED to get their hands on that tech for the Migrant Fleet. Plus the military aspects would be huge! Yeah the quarians would have loved the tech, if they could have paid for it or stolen it. And I suppose the military would have refitted with the drive eventually. (This is an own-goal by the writers, since the Tempest would have worked just fine with normal drives and a fuel scoop. Drive charge could have been handwaved away the same way it was in the trilogy.) Even with that refit the Citadel fleets aren't much more competitive with the Reapers. As for colonization, you have an implicit assumption that the existing drives didn't merely channel colonization efforts, but actively constrained them. This seems to be true for the batarians, but nobody else. The Alliance wasn't all that concerned with the fate of the Hugo Gernsback, for instance. |
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Post by vonuber on Sept 9, 2017 16:32:02 GMT
But the whole Andromeda galaxy was a rather transparent attempt on Bioware's part to have their cake and eat it too. To continue the series without admitting their "Art" royally f*cked up the franchise. They wanted to hit the reset button without actually resetting anything. And it didn't work. Don't disagree, but my contention is that nothing would have worked - as can be seen by this very thread. Personally I don't give two hoots about whether anything is lore consistent, that went out the window in ME2. |
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Post by majesticjazz on Sept 9, 2017 16:47:42 GMT
It might not answer her question but it doesnt discredit my statement either. People want to have the cake and eat it to. They want out of the MW cause we had 3 games there and the story is finished (despite only seeing 1% of it) so they want to move on to Andromeda. Yet these same (I dont want to go back to the MW) people seemed to be fine with the idea that in terms of races, Andromeda was vert MW focused. So how do you feel about the people in your camp who complain that Andromeda is too much like the Milky Way and yet at the same time want it to be even more like the Milky Way? Fail, People in my camp never wanted to goto Andromeda in the firsr place. So we dont want Andromeda to be like the MW, we just want out of the MW entirely and go back and explore the other 99% of the MW. So that brings me back to my original statement....it is a contradiction for those who wanted out of the MW to explore new things but for some reason are okay with Andromeda being majority MW races. Again...having the cake and eating it to. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 9, 2017 16:55:14 GMT
So how do you feel about the people in your camp who complain that Andromeda is too much like the Milky Way and yet at the same time want it to be even more like the Milky Way? Fail, People in my camp never wanted to goto Andromeda in the firsr place. So we dont want Andromeda to be like the MW, we just want out of the MW entirely and go back and explore the other 99% of the MW. So that brings me back to my original statement....it is a contradiction for those who wanted out of the MW to explore new things but for some reason are okay with Andromeda being majority MW races. Again...having the cake and eating it to. Then you haven't been paying attention. There have been multiple people complaining about Andromeda for being too much like the Milky Way yet at the same time suggesting a timeskip so that everything is more established in Andromeda and they have things that incidentally makes Andromeda more like the Milky Way. To answer your question, no. Having the old races come along does not contradict exploring new things. |
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Post by smilesja on Sept 9, 2017 17:01:34 GMT
Fail, People in my camp never wanted to goto Andromeda in the firsr place. So we dont want Andromeda to be like the MW, we just want out of the MW entirely and go back and explore the other 99% of the MW. So that brings me back to my original statement....it is a contradiction for those who wanted out of the MW to explore new things but for some reason are okay with Andromeda being majority MW races. Again...having the cake and eating it to. Then you haven't been paying attention. There have been multiple people complaining about Andromeda for being too much like the Milky Way yet at the same time suggesting a timeskip so that everything is more established in Andromeda and they have things that incidentally makes Andromeda more like the Milky Way. To answer your question, no. Having the old races come along does not contradict exploring new things. Yeah skip a hundred years, just so the initative be more like the Milky Way? |
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Post by majesticjazz on Sept 9, 2017 17:02:14 GMT
[quote author=" Hanako Ikezawa" source="/post/878257/thread" timestamp="1504976114" To answer your question, no. Having the old races come along does not contradict exploring new things. [/quote] Even if the majority of the races in Andromeda are not Andromedan? |
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Post by smilesja on Sept 9, 2017 17:04:14 GMT
[quote author=" Hanako Ikezawa" source="/post/878257/thread" timestamp="1504976114" To answer your question, no. Having the old races come along does not contradict exploring new things. Even if the majority of the races in Andromeda are not Andromedan? [/quote] We've only explored one cluster of Andromeda, there are still plenty more races to be discovered. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 9, 2017 17:06:02 GMT
To answer your question, no. Having the old races come along does not contradict exploring new things. Even if the majority of the races in Andromeda are not Andromedan? Yes, even then. So far we have only explored one cluster of Andromeda. As we explore more clusters and actually make a dent in Andromeda, we will find more and more aliens until they equal out or overtake the Milky Way races in number. |
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Post by themikefest on Sept 9, 2017 17:10:00 GMT
Andromeda is a brand new galaxy that has a ton of mysteries that has yet to be solved. Aren't a couple of those mysteries going to be solved in a book? |
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Post by smilesja on Sept 9, 2017 17:12:56 GMT
Andromeda is a brand new galaxy that has a ton of mysteries that has yet to be solved. Aren't a couple of those mysteries going to be solved in a book? As far as I know, the Quarian book. |
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