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Post by majesticjazz on Aug 26, 2017 1:51:18 GMT
Wrong! I based my arguments off of the Kotaku article that was written by a journalist with a solid track record. It was people like you that didnt want to believe it and bashes Kotaku and Jason in the process. MEA bombed and was a failure. No other way around it. And people on the other side based their arguments on past actions from EA and Bioware. And considering that games joiranlism in general was shaky. We were suspicious about it. And ME: A is not a bomb. Wrong again, I created a thread that showed Jason's track record and that more likely then not, Jason was telling the truth. Yet people such as yourself chose to believe your own narrative.
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Post by danishgambit on Aug 26, 2017 2:35:03 GMT
It was all speculation and not provable without going to one of the companies and getting a quote. It was good speculation obviously, but only speculation. That being said, it wasn't hard to see this comming:
Bioware is on the list prematurely but they're on the clock nonetheless. I hope they can turn it around.
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Post by Qolx on Aug 26, 2017 15:33:46 GMT
This isn't really a case of logic > hope as much as it is that people just rushed to claim that something was going to fail because people on the internet always do that and in the cases where they're right, people like acting as though they "called it". People have been predicting the downfall of World of Warcraft ever since its release in 2004, and I have no doubt that when it finally does fall people will be there to tell us all about how they called it because "the signs were there". That's a broad counterclaim on something we never claimed. Our claims were specific: ME:A would not receive DLC and BioWare Montreal no longer worked on ME:A (except MP). We based those claims on J. Schreier's Kotaku article. That's it. In any case, it doesn't matter anymore.
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Post by Qolx on Aug 26, 2017 15:38:23 GMT
I agree with the OP. I also think posting it is a dick move on a par with kicking puppies or Suikoden's victory dance gif. The post was fine 7 days ago. Now, not so much. I suppose smilesja really wanted to get that comment off his fingertips - 5 days later.
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Post by rolenka on Aug 26, 2017 20:18:11 GMT
It was all speculation and not provable without going to one of the companies and getting a quote. It was good speculation obviously, but only speculation. That being said, it wasn't hard to see this comming:
Bioware is on the list prematurely but they're on the clock nonetheless. I hope they can turn it around.
The Lucasarts one hurts the most, for me.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Aug 26, 2017 20:40:53 GMT
It was all speculation and not provable without going to one of the companies and getting a quote. It was good speculation obviously, but only speculation. That being said, it wasn't hard to see this comming:
Bioware is on the list prematurely but they're on the clock nonetheless. I hope they can turn it around.
The Lucasarts one hurts the most, for me. Me too. BF3 was a complete game already, and looked good. 1313 looked... Amazing. Enthusiasm Annihilated.
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Post by aglomeracja on Aug 26, 2017 22:58:31 GMT
It was all speculation and not provable without going to one of the companies and getting a quote. It was good speculation obviously, but only speculation. That being said, it wasn't hard to see this comming:
Bioware is on the list prematurely but they're on the clock nonetheless. I hope they can turn it around.
The Lucasarts one hurts the most, for me. Seems like EA killed most of my childhood heroes
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Post by Cyonan on Aug 26, 2017 23:28:32 GMT
This isn't really a case of logic > hope as much as it is that people just rushed to claim that something was going to fail because people on the internet always do that and in the cases where they're right, people like acting as though they "called it". People have been predicting the downfall of World of Warcraft ever since its release in 2004, and I have no doubt that when it finally does fall people will be there to tell us all about how they called it because "the signs were there". That's a broad counterclaim on something we never claimed. Our claims were specific: ME:A would not receive DLC and BioWare Montreal no longer worked on ME:A (except MP). We based those claims on J. Schreier's Kotaku article. That's it. In any case, it doesn't matter anymore. People have been claiming the failure of ME:A since before it even released. Also while there is an argument to be made about how the downsizing of the Montreal studio would result in no DLC happening because at that point they no longer had the staff to make DLC and were being re-purposed as a support team for other studios to work on things like Battlefront 2(this was actually when I started believing there would be no DLC), by your own admission this is purely based on the article from Kotaku. Which provided no actual evidence as to there not being DLC. Yes the guy's track record may be reason to suggest that there's a good chance he's right, but somebody saying "my sources told me this" is not evidence. It also wasn't a well reasoned argument as much as it was just him saying "This is what my sources told me".
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 28, 2017 16:50:23 GMT
Isn't "my sources told me this" how a lot of journalism works?
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 28, 2017 17:05:45 GMT
Fans but on both sides had no evidence and were just speculating based on past things. Wrong! I based my arguments off of the Kotaku article that was written by a journalist with a solid track record. It was people like you that didnt want to believe it and bashes Kotaku and Jason in the process. MEA bombed and was a failure. No other way around it. That Kotoku article was beyond shaky it was leaking. Plus his actions were deplorable.
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Post by JRandall0308 on Aug 28, 2017 17:14:34 GMT
Isn't "my sources told me this" how a lot of journalism works? Only if you accept the devaluation of the word 'journalism'.
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Post by Fredward on Aug 28, 2017 17:22:49 GMT
It's been like a week people move on.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 28, 2017 17:56:55 GMT
Isn't "my sources told me this" how a lot of journalism works? Only if you accept the devaluation of the word 'journalism' Could you walk me through that? I didn't learn who Deep Throat was until years after Watergate. Didn't mean that Woodward and Bernstein weren't practicing good journalism.
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Post by thesupremedarkone on Aug 28, 2017 18:13:02 GMT
Isn't "my sources told me this" how a lot of journalism works? It is but people here hated him on principle merely for reporting something negative about AndrAimee's. Meanwhile people accept things like Vetra was going to be straight which hasn't been confirmed yet people accepts as the truth
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Post by Cyonan on Aug 28, 2017 18:25:18 GMT
Isn't "my sources told me this" how a lot of journalism works? It can at times, but it can also be rather unreliable when the source is anonymous. Although the main thing I was pointing out is that it's not actual evidence of anything due to how easy it would be to make it up(either on the part of the journalist or the source). Anonymous sources are mostly best when used as a jumping off point for digging deeper and getting to the evidence, but that's more for things as big as Watergate and not for a video game not getting DLC.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 28, 2017 18:37:29 GMT
What should a journalist who covers games do, then?
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Post by JRandall0308 on Aug 28, 2017 18:43:34 GMT
Convince people to go on the record. Cajole, plead, flatter, embarrass, appeal to someone's love of justice or fame (or infamy), start with anonymous sources but then get someone authoritative to go on record "because I already have three other people telling me this so you may as well confirm it", etc. etc. etc.
You know. Actually do the job of being a reporter.
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Post by Cyonan on Aug 28, 2017 18:58:06 GMT
To be honest I don't even have a problem with speculative articles based on anonymous sources, especially in this case because the Kotaku article pretty clearly stated that he could very well be wrong on this and that it wasn't 100% true fact.
My point is just that we shouldn't act like taking them at their word is a matter of logic vs hope, because "somebody on the inside told me, trust me on this" doesn't count as evidence.
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Post by abaris on Aug 28, 2017 19:53:39 GMT
It can at times, but it can also be rather unreliable when the source is anonymous. Yeah, let's see. My name is John Doe, working as a dev at Bioware Montreal. Please get my name right because I totally want to be fired and sued out of my life savings. Chapeau. Works totally that way in journalism.
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Post by Cyonan on Aug 28, 2017 19:57:34 GMT
It can at times, but it can also be rather unreliable when the source is anonymous. Yeah, let's see. My name is John Doe, working as a dev at Bioware Montreal. Please get my name right because I totally want to be fired and sued out of my life savings. Chapeau. Works totally that way in journalism. On the other hand my name is Jon Doe and I know a guy at BioWare Montreal. He told me that they're actually working on Mass Effect 4 with Shepard back as the main character. That's why it's unreliable. Anybody can claim to know a guy.
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Post by river82 on Aug 28, 2017 20:44:15 GMT
The reaction to Jason's article was over the top, and the reaction to that reaction by Jason was likewise. There seems to be a thing these days where most news is treated as incredibly suspicious and fake compared with "the obvious truths my edgy and ignorant friend on twitter thinks. Let's fight the power, bro!" While it's obviously a good thing to be open-minded and not accepting things at face value, I really don't think accepting or dismissing things based on whether they reaffirm what "me and my friends think" is a brilliant way to go through life. The outright dismissal of Jason's article by some here was stupid. Most people knew there was a chance it was accurate because observationally things matched up and made sense. A wait and see approach would have been better, especially considering Jason seems to have a history of having reliable sources that tell him things ( www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/456mdr/reminder_kotakujason_schreier_has_been_right/ )
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Post by suikoden on Aug 28, 2017 20:51:00 GMT
Yeah, let's see. My name is John Doe, working as a dev at Bioware Montreal. Please get my name right because I totally want to be fired and sued out of my life savings. Chapeau. Works totally that way in journalism. On the other hand my name is Jon Doe and I know a guy at BioWare Montreal. He told me that they're actually working on Mass Effect 4 with Shepard back as the main character. That's why it's unreliable. Anybody can claim to know a guy. But you're a mod on a fan forum with zero history and credibility as a journalist... There's a difference.
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Post by Qolx on Aug 28, 2017 21:40:43 GMT
Convince people to go on the record. Cajole, plead, flatter, embarrass, appeal to someone's love of justice or fame (or infamy), start with anonymous sources but then get someone authoritative to go on record "because I already have three other people telling me this so you may as well confirm it", etc. etc. etc. You know. Actually do the job of being a reporter. This is raw ignorance. There are a crapload of legal issues for both public and private employees who release information. There are also social, professional, and other consequences. Someone mentioned Deep Throat: he was actually FBI Associate Director Mark Felt, 2nd highest ranking in the FBI. His identity was revealed 31 years after Watergate and 11 years after Nixon died. Felt could have been in deep trouble if his identity had been disclosed. The uncomfortable truth is that much of journalism is glorified gossiping. Reporters have little legal power to obtain info from people and organizations. Journalists primarily rely on potential willingness to talk. " because I already have three other people telling me you murdered someone/this project was cancelled/that office was closed/etc so you may as well confirm it" This is incredibly dumb. Please, think before you post.
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Post by Cyonan on Aug 28, 2017 21:55:47 GMT
On the other hand my name is Jon Doe and I know a guy at BioWare Montreal. He told me that they're actually working on Mass Effect 4 with Shepard back as the main character. That's why it's unreliable. Anybody can claim to know a guy. But you're a mod on a fan forum with zero history and credibility as a journalist... There's a difference. but I did release information on the last 2 MP DLC for Mass Effect 3 and told people exactly what would and wouldn't be included, and was actually correct on what would be in the DLC. In either case if you read my earlier posts you'll know that I never said there was zero merit to what the guy said, but I did say that simply claiming your sources told you something isn't evidence so don't be surprised if people who don't follow your journalism don't care to take you at your word. Evidence is a pretty clear cut thing and hearsay isn't evidence, even if it might be convincing when the guy has a good track record.
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Post by Lady Artifice on Aug 28, 2017 22:09:35 GMT
Yes, the doomsayers were reliably doomsaying. It doesn't really prove anything beyond the fact that if you call the same result often enough, probability will eventually work in your favor. That, plus the fact that there will always be people tacky enough to pull an "I told you so."
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