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Post by LilTIM on Aug 21, 2017 9:55:48 GMT
As long as dlc is profitable (and it is way more than making a base game) it won't go anywhere.
I think the failure of MEA has more to do with it's troubled development than with removing the dlc model - way more people would have bought a quarian dlc than will buy the novel, like more people watch films than read books.
There is also the issue that EAware has other franchises that is choosing to invest now, so ME is not a priority, thus it gets less and less resources - MP is cheap so they keep doing that. Same thing happened with SWTOR when it failed to meet it's goals: it's still running, but in a near-maintenance mode and full of microtransactions.
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Post by LogicGunn on Aug 21, 2017 11:23:52 GMT
I think a lot of devs are hoping to cash in on the MP wave, but I don't think its going to be the death of SP. As long as there is a market there will be a product. I hate MP so I'm not going to start playing it.
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Post by DragonRacer on Aug 21, 2017 11:35:07 GMT
What a bleak horrible future we live in. The darkest timeline...
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Post by Kenny Bania on Aug 21, 2017 11:40:07 GMT
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Post by abaris on Aug 21, 2017 11:43:56 GMT
Bioware will have a better game on their next one, I stand by this both Anthem and DA4 will knock it out the park. Anthem, by all accounts so far, will be a glorified MMO with SP apendix. That won't knock anything out the park, far as I am concerned. And to say we know nothing on DA4 so far would still be an overstatement. There's absolutely nothing concrete on that front, nothing, zilch.
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Post by janalilith on Aug 21, 2017 12:27:26 GMT
I don't see the SP RPG disappearing but as to Bioware producing them... that remains to be seen. Clearly EA is thinking of the bottom line and MEA did not meet expectations so they don't want to put any more investment in it. As to SP under EA, with Anthem being the focus, they are going to see how that goes. Games all around doing micro transactions in MP - this seems to be the model coming for AAA especially under EA. Hell, with Shadows of War, Warner Bros is trying out the micro transactions idea on SP! They are seeing how this goes and if people bite, well, then that might be the future. It's all about the bottom line. I think as others have said here, like with Hellblade: Sensua's sacrifice, smaller rpgs that have the feel of AAA might be the future and if that is the case, then I'm a little relieved. I can live with this. It just bites because I love Bioware's games and would miss it if they abandon the model eventually. I don't see it happening full stop right away, though. I think it all depends on how Anthem performs.
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Post by brandoftime on Aug 21, 2017 12:51:30 GMT
Why they wouldn't just do both . . . money for them either way!
For what it's worth, I don't think Bioware has ever abandoned a game after just 5 months and 5 patches, so MEA is a 'special case' and not in a good way.
I was roaming around the original Bioware forums that are archived at fextralife now and re read some of the reactions to the news that BW was shutting down the forums last year. Some said then that they knew that the game would fail because it looked like they were trying to defend themselves ahead of time. That and the fact that almost no game footage was out yet, very little info. Now, I guess we all know why. A few real optimists rushed to assure us all this could not be, but honestly even Hello games is still supporting NoMan's Sky a year later and puts Bioware to shame right now. They ditched this title in only 5 months.
EA thinks we all want to read the comics instead? What's wrong with them? I will read the summary online. For free.
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Post by normandy on Aug 21, 2017 12:53:37 GMT
You have seen the future I have seen. Star Citizen will either redeem "AAA" gaming and give it a much needed course correction, or more likely it will implode, EA will continue to disappoint us, and a new gaming dark age will begin for me. Winter is coming. Fuck. I've had the same thought. IF BioWare goes down there is no other video game company I trust to produce consistantly quality Tripple A RPG Gaming content with good stories. Maaaayybbbe CDPR, because while I really did love TW 3 for the most part it did not make me a CDPR fanboy. Anyone else though? Nothing else coming out or has been released recently has me salivating on the RPG front. That's what worries me, I really like RPGs, but there's practically no big studios to produce them. And while I like some projects (Pillars of Eternity), they don't have enough budget to make really big games that I can play for years and get really sucked in.
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Post by normandy on Aug 21, 2017 12:56:06 GMT
Greedfall seems like it maybe could be interesting. I'm very weary of that studio, I've played Mars: War Logs May, Bound by Flame and Technomancer and they weren't that good at all. Clunky gameplay, poor storytelling, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 13:02:23 GMT
Greedfall seems like it maybe could be interesting. I'm very weary of that studio, I've played Mars: War Logs May, Bound by Flame and Technomancer and they weren't that good at all. Clunky gameplay, poor storytelling, etc. The Technomancer wasn't that bad other than its over all finish. I actually like the combat better than TW3's. For how much was spent I was pleasantly surprised. It felt very much like a Bioware title, just with a smaller budget.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 13:09:56 GMT
I think a lot of devs are hoping to cash in on the MP wave, but I don't think its going to be the death of SP. As long as there is a market there will be a product. I hate MP so I'm not going to start playing it. It may come down to how well Anthem does. If it crushes it financially I'd be more inclined to believe that Bioware would be less motivated to make anymore true single player games. EA may just have them dump all their resources in to it and future Anthem like titles. I truly hope I'm wrong...
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Aug 21, 2017 13:12:51 GMT
There is one simple solution: do not play EA/BW MP games. That's it. If Anthem will fail, they will have no other choice like only to focus again on SP games. If Anthem will succeed, i will be not surprised if they will focus on MP/MMA games, releasing SP games like DA4 once every 5 years or so.
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Post by abaris on Aug 21, 2017 13:30:49 GMT
It just bites because I love Bioware's games and would miss it if they abandon the model eventually. I don't see it happening full stop right away, though. I think it all depends on how Anthem performs. Let's wait what happens after Anthem.
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Post by abaris on Aug 21, 2017 13:34:06 GMT
It may come down to how well Anthem does. If it crushes it financially I'd be more inclined to believe that Bioware would be less motivated to make anymore true single player games. EA may just have them dump all their resources in to it and future Anthem like titles. I truly hope I'm wrong... They're having wet dreams over the COD crowd for years by now. EA has. Riccitiello was pretty vocal about that before the release of ME3, which was the first Bioware game with tacked on MP.
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Aug 21, 2017 13:35:42 GMT
For people lamenting the end of SP RPGs, it's still rather early for that. There's certainly a healthy market for them. There was this little game called The Witcher 3, and by all indications it was an overwhelming success. It's not the end of SP RPGs overall, only for those made by BW. DA4 is the only hope, but remember it wasn't even officially announced yet.
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Post by abaris on Aug 21, 2017 13:44:33 GMT
DA4 is the only hope, but remember it wasn't even officially announced yet. That being the crucial point. Noone can say if there even will be a DA4 or if it turns into an MMO on the way.
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Post by jclosed on Aug 21, 2017 13:47:30 GMT
For people lamenting the end of SP RPGs, it's still rather early for that. There's certainly a healthy market for them. There was this little game called The Witcher 3, and by all indications it was an overwhelming success. Yeah - but their next title will have (at least some) multiplayer in it. I do not think they will abandon SP (for now), but it's creeping in already... And, as I said before, we know nothing about DA4 yet. It's probably after Anthem, and if that title is indeed multiplayer (as I fear), then why not make DA4 an MMO too? It would not surprise me in the least. For now I am looking forward to Elex. That game is from the makers of Gothic (Piranha Bytes), and they are with a reasonable publisher (THQ Nordic). It's a real RPG and SP only. Yes - It will not be a "big studio" production, and the gameplay will probably be a bit clunky, but their story telling is very good. But will there be real "big name developers" that develop SP RPG games in the future? Well - Maybe I'm a bit "out of the loop" but at this very moment I should not know one SP RPG title that's in development by a major studio. I might be wrong though.
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Post by abaris on Aug 21, 2017 13:49:38 GMT
*shrug* I don't have any particular attachment to BW at this point, so meh... I have one attachment. Only one, but it's a crucial one. Their companions and the possibility to romance them. They lost me on that aspect with MEA, but usually the player gives the impression of being a real person to immerse yourself in. That's about the only thing I would miss if Bioware stopped doing what it did in the past.
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Post by Hawke on Aug 21, 2017 13:56:47 GMT
SP RPG seems to become more niche, than before, but there are still a lot of interesting games in development (Pillars of Eternity II, Greedfall). I hardly can imagine DA being more MP-focused, because (judging by this forums) majority of players like it for the SP components, such as story and NPCs (and tactical combat). Weakening those (and losing customers) would be unprofitable, thus it is unlikely for BW/EA to do so.
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Post by abaris on Aug 21, 2017 13:59:21 GMT
SP RPG seems to become more niche, than before, but there are still a lot of interesting games in development ( Pillars of Eternity II, Greedfall). I hardly can imagine DA being more MP-focused, because (judging by this forums) majority of players like it for the SP components, such as story and NPCs (and tactical combat). Weakening those (and losing customers) would be unprofitable, thus it is unlikely for BW/EA to do so. This forum is anecdotal at best. It all depends on their market research. If they think they can rake in a new MMO audience, the SP players will be left hanging out to dry.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 14:14:19 GMT
Greedfall seems like it maybe could be interesting. Haven't heard of it... I am also looking at Spider as a potential developer to try with Technomancer & Greedfall. I was thinking Obsidian, but Spider offers what I think I want. Good enough 3D games without so many bells and whistles, that it's impossible for them to finish a game in under 2 years & make profit w/o an insane budget. I want shorter, good enough 3D games in unusual settings with at least some customization for protagonist and companions if possible, and by the look of it, this is what Greedfall (and Spider) offers. I am going to finish Prey and give Technomancer a shot. Unusual settings that the Spider picks is a HUGE thing in their favour for me! I personally have no problems with MP per se, but Andromeda MP got short-changed as much as the SP was in regards to DLC/post-release content, or at least that's what it looks like atm, because variety is the live-blood of MP, and Andromeda MP is too light on content. There is one less enemy faction, and they are not as variable as in ME3MP; there are far less maps & species kits than in ME3MP. In short, despite a really cool gameplay, Andromeda MP does not offer the same amount of infinite variations and cartering to the player's fantasy making you want to keep playing to get to really cool stuff as the ME3MP did.
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Post by Sanunes on Aug 21, 2017 14:18:54 GMT
I think you are reading a little too deeply into what BioWare is doing with Andromeda. They are a company likes using metrics to determine what they are doing and I think the problem with Andromeda and its DLC is just not enough people are playing it anymore. If you read the forums here a lot of people indicated they only played the game once and that was enough or that they were waiting for DLC to start a new game. So from what BioWare could see the single player portion of the game was dead and they couldn't recoup the costs of developing DLC for it. Now with multiplayer what makes Microtransaction successful is the "whale system" where a handful of people buying content pays for everyone so instead of needing 100,000 people to buy a single player DLC to cover costs, they might only need a couple thousand spending a lot of money on microtransactions.
If Andromeda was a big success at launch and still abandoned single player DLC like what happened with Rockstar and GTAV then I would think you would be on the right track.
One thing with Anthem is that its allowing BioWare employees to take a break from making the same game over and over again which has been the companies MO since Jade Empire, those games have slight differences but at the core they are all really the same basic ideas just rehashed over and over again. Which might bring new ideas into future games they are developing.
Things like multiplayer are in games because that is what people want, analysts predict that Mass Effect 3 was BioWare's best selling game. Why is that the case when they had the entire blowup over the endings, it is probably that the multiplayer attracted more people to the game. So it is a combination of chasing the money, but also giving people what they show they want in the games as well.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 14:22:17 GMT
Titles by Spiders were less than mediocre up to this point tbh. I played Bound by Flame and Technomancer, both are games that I wouldn't recommend unless for something like 40-50% off, and then only for fans of the genre who are willing to overlook A LOT. Heh, that's how I see myself. Someone who is willing to overlook a lot in order to play a cool character I can tweak in a cool, UNUSUAL setting and a new story & move on, vs replaying a "perfect" title 10 times in a Tolkien's spin-off. It remains to be seen just how much I am willing to overlook. But, hey, I managed Blade & Soul's story for the sake of the setting/character, so I think I am good. and, I really want 3D, third person.
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Post by geralt on Aug 21, 2017 14:26:14 GMT
It's pretty simple and can be distilled down to this.
When the 3 wise sages founded Bioware, they operated on the premise: "In order to make games, we need to make money."
EA work on the premise: "In order to make money, we need to make games."
When your motivation for what you're doing shifts from a creative basis to a purely monetary basis, the creativity withers and eventually dies. EA don't put out the likes of FIFA & COD annually to make the best & innovative football or shooter game for their players. They do it because they shift millions and millions of units every year for a minimal amount of effort, and the maximum amount of profit.
I don't believe the pulling of additional SP content for MEA confirms that it either didn't sell well, or they caved to some of the bad PR. It does however make me think a lot of the troubles reported did happen, and this was a simple risk cutting of potential losses if any further investment was to continue.
I do fear though that the focus is gradually shifting to this always online multiplayer BS, and it further drains my faith in the human race folk in their droves lap it all up shelling out their money for it. For me at least, the likes of Destiny, TOR, WoW etc just can't beat the kind of experiences you get in games like the original KOTOR, DAO or Mass Effect 1, but what do I know?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 14:33:44 GMT
If the always on-line games were like SWTOR, I'd be a happy camper, tbh. After Baldur's Gate when there simply was nothing else, I've played SWTOR the most, and it was the most interesting game I've ever played for replays due to 8 different campaigns and infinite variation of characters for species, gender, voice, personality, romances and choices. Adding the MP "specialization" on top of it for each character really made each protagonist feel really unique, his or her own person. Not a single SP game ever come nowhere close in that respect. I do however really enjoy the part of the games where you create your own hero way more than a lot of other things in the game. I also do like the flare other people's characters add to the gameworld, and if not for bots and forced PvP, I'd actually prefer that to SP experience.
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