malaficus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by malaficus on Aug 24, 2017 5:44:20 GMT
Did the milky way race's know how to build mass relay's? Did the initiative brought this knowledge along?
Are they really as stupid as the game portrays them to be?
Would it be possible for the initiative to build a mass effect relay and connect both galaxies together? Do mass relays reach that far?
We know the citadel is a mass effect relay leading to dark space. So it is possible but the citadel is unique. Could normal mass effect relays reach that far?
Assuming it would be possible to create a gateway to the milky way. How would that effect the universe?
My "fannon" ending is paragon shepard becoming a reaper/catalyst. Yours?
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Post by Element Zero on Aug 24, 2017 5:55:25 GMT
The species of the Milky Way did not know how to build mass relays during the time of the trilogy. Six hundred thirty-four years is likely more than enough time for the post-ME3 civilization to "figure it out", but that leaves issues unaddressed.
Mass relays travel requires a relay on either end. You need a starting and stopping point. If the Ai has functioning QECs*, and the post-ME3 civilization can transmit the requisite knowledge to Heleus, we could eventually see a MW-Andromeda relay. It's also possible that more advanced MW peoples will simply arrive in a Andromeda, one day. Over 600 years have passed. After the Reapers, technological complacency may be a thing of the past. Perhaps the trip can be made much more quickly, now. Perhaps these advanced MW visitors could construct the Andromeda side of a relay exchange.
* I always see people say that any QECs must've been destroyed. Alec Ryder received communication, while in intergalactic FTL, from MW sources. This would only have been possible via QEC, and we have no definitive evidence that such QECs had been destroyed.
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ArabianIGoggles
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Post by ArabianIGoggles on Aug 24, 2017 5:58:52 GMT
Would be cool to see the citadel being used as a relay to andromdea.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Aug 24, 2017 6:10:49 GMT
They have a backdoor one day if they "need" to go back to the MW.
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rapscallioness
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Post by rapscallioness on Aug 24, 2017 6:53:00 GMT
IIRC, in the AI briefing info they mentioned the goal of eventually being able to set up trade routes back to the MW with the cool, new shiny resources they discovered in Andromeda so that someone would make a killing.
It seems like the situation was meant to be something like the colony of Zhu's Hope. Funded and backed by Exogeni with the colonists looking for....stuff.
If it was about money and trade and trademarks for all these new resources, the kind of credits we're talking would be beyond imagination. However, the time gap would be a problem. Over 600 years. Civilizations rise and fall in that time. So, I don't see that as a viable plan unless the Benefactor, or whomever, had a lead on something. Some tech.
Or the Benefactor et al were just talking smack. Either way, it would not have happened in the lifetime of the first wave.
AI was definitely dealing in some very cutting edge, experimental, illegal and black market tech. Then, ofc, you have to wonder how long the AI, or an AI prototype group, has been working with such tech? What could they have discovered? What could they have tweaked? Built off of?
There are always going to be people and groups that race towards that sort of thing. Without public knowledge. Without "permission".
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Post by Fogg on Aug 24, 2017 14:19:24 GMT
The only reason ME:A was set in Andromeda was too not interfere with whatever you chose as an ending in ME3. You can make up any kind of space magic to connect Andromeda and the Milky Way, but if you're going to do so, there was no reason to leave in the first place.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 24, 2017 16:47:07 GMT
If it was about money and trade and trademarks for all these new resources, the kind of credits we're talking would be beyond imagination. However, the time gap would be a problem. Over 600 years. Civilizations rise and fall in that time. So, I don't see that as a viable plan unless the Benefactor, or whomever, had a lead on something. Some tech. Let's not be ethnocentric. Asari can plan in that kind of timeframe.
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Post by rapscallioness on Aug 24, 2017 17:09:32 GMT
If it was about money and trade and trademarks for all these new resources, the kind of credits we're talking would be beyond imagination. However, the time gap would be a problem. Over 600 years. Civilizations rise and fall in that time. So, I don't see that as a viable plan unless the Benefactor, or whomever, had a lead on something. Some tech. Let's not be ethnocentric. Asari can plan in that kind of timeframe. Ah, forgot about the Asari. The Krogan as well, if we're really looking to avoid being ethnocentric. But this is true. There are MW species that can cover that kind of time gap. Which, to me, only makes it more interesting.
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Post by rapscallioness on Aug 24, 2017 17:28:28 GMT
The only reason ME:A was set in Andromeda was too not interfere with whatever you chose as an ending in ME3. You can make up any kind of space magic to connect Andromeda and the Milky Way, but if you're going to do so, there was no reason to leave in the first place. Well, yeah, but I'm trying to think of it from an in-game perspective. Frankly, from an in-game perspective, they didn't have much reason to leave in the first place. Their whole thing was Explore. Vast majority have no idea about the Reapers. Was the AI secretly set up from the beginning to run from the Reapers? Or was that discovered later and they pushed the AI out with more urgency?
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Post by Element Zero on Aug 24, 2017 17:53:06 GMT
IIRC, in the AI briefing info they mentioned the goal of eventually being able to set up trade routes back to the MW with the cool, new shiny resources they discovered in Andromeda so that someone would make a killing. They did state this explicitly. I have to wonder, though, if it was just BS recruitment talk, and a cover story of sorts. The Benefactor clearly intended to flee the incoming cataclysm, which Shepard revealed as the Reapers. As @fogg pointed out, we'd likely only see a return to the MW in a far future. Otherwise, why shift everything to Andromeda? The potential for relays or other advanced transit is always there, if the writers want to employ it. I believe, though, that the intent had been to keep the game in Andromeda for the foreseeable future.
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Post by AnDromedary on Aug 24, 2017 17:55:07 GMT
* I always see people say that any QECs must've been destroyed. Alec Ryder received communication, while in intergalactic FTL, from MW sources. This would only have been possible via QEC, and we have no definitive evidence that such QECs had been destroyed. Just on that issue, there is no definitive evidence, no but all indications are that there are no working QECs around at the time of the game. If there are any, they must either be undicovered or kept secret, even from the highest echelons of power in the initiative (read: the pathfinders, so us). It is said countless times throughout the game that there is no contact with the milky way and that they have no idea how they went on. Heck, until Ryder recovers the memories and gets his father's logs, they didn't even know about the messages in transit. The only time where this is called into question is a through-away new message, you can hear on the enxus, where they say that the name of a construction worker who died while working in space is withheld "until next of kin in the milky way are notified". But honestly, that news message is so weird, I chalk that one up to another writing snafu. So yes, no definitive evidence but clearly, no one we know in the game has access to any sort of communication with the MW, therefore, I'd say it's a safe assumption that at least the QEC Alec Ryder used to receive that final MW message about the reapers has been destroyed or just didn't function anymore after 600 years. Given that we, today - at least to the best of my knowladge - can't make QE work for more than an hour or so at a time before we loose the connection due to external noise factors, I think it makes sense that you'd loose the entanglement after a while.
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Post by Element Zero on Aug 24, 2017 18:03:47 GMT
* I always see people say that any QECs must've been destroyed. Alec Ryder received communication, while in intergalactic FTL, from MW sources. This would only have been possible via QEC, and we have no definitive evidence that such QECs had been destroyed. Just on that issue, there is no definitive evidence, no but all indications are that there are no working QECs around at the time of the game. If there are any, they must either be undicovered or kept secret, even from the highest echelons of power in the initiative (read: the pathfinders, so us). It is said countless times throughout the game that there is no contact with the milky way and that they have no idea how they went on. Heck, until Ryder recovers the memories and gets his father's logs, they didn't even know about the messages in transit. The only time where this is called into question is a through-away new message, you can hear on the enxus, where they say that the name of a construction worker who died while working in space is withheld "until next of kin in the milky way are notified". But honestly, that news message is so weird, I chalk that one up to another writing snafu. So yes, no definitive evidence but clearly, no one we know in the game has access to any sort of communication with the MW, therefore, I'd say it's a safe assumption that at least the QEC Alec Ryder used to receive that final MW message about the reapers has been destroyed or just didn't function anymore after 600 years. Given that we, today - at least to the best of my knowladge - can't make QE work for more than an hour or so at a time before we loose the connection due to external noise factors, I think it makes sense that you'd loose the entanglement after a while. I think that news report was just a silly error in writing. I definitely agree that there were no known QECs. That was pretty essential for separating MEA from the OT. Alec clearly had access to one, though. Maybe the writers didn't consider the implications of his receiving messages in 2186, but it's in the game now. That means there was, or is, at least one QEC in existence during MEA. I'd prefer was, since Heleus is best left isolated from the MW. I don't want to hear from them until they arrive in shiny new vessels, or something similarly dramatic.
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dmc1001
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 24, 2017 18:06:24 GMT
My ending is dead Reapers. Also, based on what Matriarch Aethyta says in ME2, I don't believe anyone knows how to make mass relays.
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rapscallioness
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Post by rapscallioness on Aug 24, 2017 18:08:31 GMT
Does anybody in the MW even know we're out here? Hell, after the Reaper War, does anyone alive know we're out here. Is the whole of the AI itself a Lost Ark?
If the MW people do rebuild QEC's after a few hundred years, would they even know to try and contact the AI? Or connect with us? I, too, found that tidbit about waiting to contact the next of kin in the MW odd. I'm thinking next of kin 600 years later?
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corsair
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by corsair on Aug 24, 2017 18:12:21 GMT
Here's a quote from Ian Frazier (Lead Designer on MEA) concerning QEC: bsn.boards.net/post/804989/thread"- Did each Ark and the Nexus have QEC's that connected back to the Milky Way? We never directly state this in the game iirc, but the implication is that the Nexus (and perhaps even the arks) did have a QEC link back to the Milky Way but it went dark at some point while they were en route, for reasons that should be pretty clear if you've played ME3."
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Post by AnDromedary on Aug 24, 2017 18:12:52 GMT
I think that news report was just a silly error in writing. I definitely agree that there were no known QECs. That was pretty essential for separating MEA from the OT. Alec clearly had access to one, though. Maybe the writers didn't consider the implications of his receiving messages in 2186, but it's in the game now. That means there was, or is, at least one QEC in existence during MEA. I'd prefer was, since Heleus is best left isolated from the MW. I don't want to hear from them until they arrive in shiny new vessels, or something similarly dramatic. Nono, I totally agree, Alec had to have one in 2186, that's for sure. It would also make sense for them to take some, in order to keep in contact for as long as possible. All I am saying is that I think it makes sense that the QEC may just not last 600 years and by the time the game actually takes place, they don't have any anymore (and probably expected as much). The weird thing really is that the QECs seemed to have been so secret, while back in the MW, by almost the same time, they seem to be a well known (if still expensive) technology. You'd have expected that a lot of AI folks (at the very least in the leadership) would have known that QECs were around at least to still receive reports from the MW for the first year or so, so in fact, the whole story about the reaper war being such a big secret doesn't make that much sense in the first place.
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Post by Element Zero on Aug 24, 2017 18:36:55 GMT
I think that news report was just a silly error in writing. I definitely agree that there were no known QECs. That was pretty essential for separating MEA from the OT. Alec clearly had access to one, though. Maybe the writers didn't consider the implications of his receiving messages in 2186, but it's in the game now. That means there was, or is, at least one QEC in existence during MEA. I'd prefer was, since Heleus is best left isolated from the MW. I don't want to hear from them until they arrive in shiny new vessels, or something similarly dramatic. Nono, I totally agree, Alec had to have one in 2186, that's for sure. It would also make sense for them to take some, in order to keep in contact for as long as possible. All I am saying is that I think it makes sense that the QEC may just not last 600 years and by the time the game actually takes place, they don't have any anymore (and probably expected as much). The weird thing really is that the QECs seemed to have been so secret, while back in the MW, by almost the same time, they seem to be a well known (if still expensive) technology. You'd have expected that a lot of AI folks (at the very least in the leadership) would have known that QECs were around at least to still receive reports from the MW for the first year or so, so in fact, the whole story about the reaper war being such a big secret doesn't make that much sense in the first place. Agreed. I chose to assume that the MW end of most, if not all, were destroyed during the Reaper War. Decay is likewise a good explanation, but one you'd think they'd have anticipated. No doubt theyll find a functional QEC, or "establish contact", as soon as the writers wish.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 25, 2017 15:34:06 GMT
The only reason ME:A was set in Andromeda was too not interfere with whatever you chose as an ending in ME3. You can make up any kind of space magic to connect Andromeda and the Milky Way, but if you're going to do so, there was no reason to leave in the first place. Well, yeah, but I'm trying to think of it from an in-game perspective. Frankly, from an in-game perspective, they didn't have much reason to leave in the first place. Their whole thing was Explore. Vast majority have no idea about the Reapers. Was the AI secretly set up from the beginning to run from the Reapers? Or was that discovered later and they pushed the AI out with more urgency? OTOH, people wanting to get out from under the Council and the Alliance was already a thing in the MEU; Horizon, for instance. The AI seems to have drawn its recruits largely from malcontents of one sort or another... which may be why things went to hell so fast.
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Post by Psychedelic on Aug 25, 2017 17:56:37 GMT
It wouldn't surprise me if Bioware came up with an in-game explanation how to travel back to the MW without a 600year delay, with old-fashioned mass relays or otherwise. They have relied on SpacemagicTM before to justify whatever plot device they wanted to use, so the how isn't so much the problem here as the why. I am pretty sure they intended the Andromeda galaxy to be the new stage for following titles. Hard to tell if the recent upheaval around ME:A has changed that. They might try to make a cut (again) and set a new title back in the MW, though I don't think it's likely, the galaxy the story takes place in never was the problem. As to the "respecting the players' choice" issue regarding the ME3 endings, it's not only distance that separates any follow-up title from the MW, it's also a lot of time. A new game could take place even more than ME:A's 600 years later. Add a few centuries more (if even necessary) and the MW species might have recovered from the destruction caused by the Reapers and the loss of the mass relays, the Reapers themselves could have retreated into dark space never to be seen again in case of the controll ending. Synthesis... I never quite understood what implications that choice might have exactly, but I guess that part could be covered by new type of standard technology that integrates organic and synthetic components, even if you didn't take the green ending. That would level the ground for a new setting in the MW without outright contradicting any player choices (except the refusal ending, but how many people took that one, anyway?). So Bioware could let the Andromedans reconnect with the MW, if they really wanted to go that route, hopefully with a bit more creative writing than my rough outline of possible solutions, without going against the player's choices from ME3, which seems to be the biggest hindrance for doing so.
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Post by LogicGunn on Aug 25, 2017 18:01:39 GMT
Would a Mass Relay work through dark space? If so, why didn't the Reaper use them outside the Milky Way?
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Post by Sondergaard on Aug 25, 2017 18:13:41 GMT
IIRC, in the AI briefing info they mentioned the goal of eventually being able to set up trade routes back to the MW with the cool, new shiny resources they discovered in Andromeda so that someone would make a killing. They did state this explicitly. I have to wonder, though, if it was just BS recruitment talk, and a cover story of sorts. The Benefactor clearly intended to flee the incoming cataclysm, which Shepard revealed as the Reapers. As @fogg pointed out, we'd likely only see a return to the MW in a far future. Otherwise, why shift everything to Andromeda? The potential for relays or other advanced transit is always there, if the writers want to employ it. I believe, though, that the intent had been to keep the game in Andromeda for the foreseeable future. Why weren't we allowed to ask the question in the game? The whole premise is ridiculous unless you accept they were running from the Reapers. So, if the AI personnel didn't know about the Reapers why didn't anybody ask how they were going to get the resources back to the MW? I know it's a game but it has to have some sort of internal consistency. 100,000 people would take centuries before they were well enough established to have surplus resources to send back. So you're probably looking at a millennia before the MW investors see a return. And on hearing this every member of the AI said 'sounds legit'? Unless they all have Liam's ability for critical thinking it just makes no sense.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 25, 2017 18:17:28 GMT
Would a Mass Relay work through dark space? If so, why didn't the Reaper use them outside the Milky Way? They did. That's how they usually entered the Milky Way. They used a Mass Relay of some sort that connected with its twin the Citadel. The Protheans on Ilos altered the control signal the Keepers received thus when our cycle came the Reapers couldn't go through the Citadel hence why Sovereign tried opening it and when that failed they had to do it the old-fashioned way and fly to the galaxy.
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I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
PSN: LogicGunn
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Post by LogicGunn on Aug 25, 2017 18:39:20 GMT
Would a Mass Relay work through dark space? If so, why didn't the Reaper use them outside the Milky Way? They did. That's how they usually entered the Milky Way. They used a Mass Relay of some sort that connected with its twin the Citadel. The Protheans on Ilos altered the control signal the Keepers received thus when our cycle came the Reapers couldn't go through the Citadel hence why Sovereign tried opening it and when that failed they had to do it the old-fashioned way and fly to the galaxy. The Reapers travelled conventionally through dark space to the alpha relay in Batarian space then used that to travel to all the other relays in the milky way simultaneously. That's why Shep had to destroy the relay in Arrival. She found out that the Reapers were on the way to use the relay so she crashed an asteroid into it to buy the Milky Way more time. There are no relays in dark space, the Reapers didn't make them there. I assumed there was a science reason for that.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 25, 2017 18:42:00 GMT
They did. That's how they usually entered the Milky Way. They used a Mass Relay of some sort that connected with its twin the Citadel. The Protheans on Ilos altered the control signal the Keepers received thus when our cycle came the Reapers couldn't go through the Citadel hence why Sovereign tried opening it and when that failed they had to do it the old-fashioned way and fly to the galaxy. The Reapers travelled conventionally through dark space to the alpha relay in Batarian space then used that to travel to all the other relays in the milky way simultaneously. That's why Shep had to destroy the relay in Arrival. She found out that the Reapers were on the way to use the relay so she crashed an asteroid into it to buy the Milky Way more time. There are no relays in dark space, the Reapers didn't make them there. I assumed there was a science reason for that. The Mass Relays require pairs to work. The one in Dark Space connected to the Citadel. So when the Citadel couldn't be activated for that purpose, they had no way of using the Mass Relay in Dark Space thus they had to use conventional FTL until they could reach another Mass Relay like they were aiming to do with the Alpha Relay in Arrival.
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I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
PSN: LogicGunn
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November 2016
logicgunn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
LogicGunn
LogicGunn
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Post by LogicGunn on Aug 25, 2017 18:58:51 GMT
The Reapers travelled conventionally through dark space to the alpha relay in Batarian space then used that to travel to all the other relays in the milky way simultaneously. That's why Shep had to destroy the relay in Arrival. She found out that the Reapers were on the way to use the relay so she crashed an asteroid into it to buy the Milky Way more time. There are no relays in dark space, the Reapers didn't make them there. I assumed there was a science reason for that. The Mass Relays require pairs to work. The one in Dark Space connected to the Citadel. So when the Citadel couldn't be activated for that purpose, they had no way of using the Mass Relay in Dark Space thus they had to use conventional FTL until they could reach another Mass Relay like they were aiming to do with the Alpha Relay in Arrival. Gotcha. Shep bested them twice that way then. So I guess the one in dark space and the Citadel can only connect to each other? Cause all the other ones can connect to the others freely. If it took the entire Citadel to power a connection to Dark Space, I don't think it's feasible or practical to build one that can reach another Galaxy then. The power requirements would out do any of the current tech in ME.
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