Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Sept 11, 2017 18:15:25 GMT
For one thing, they could have just shared the helmet. They only needed a couple of minutes for the shuttle to get there. Did the shuttle pick up Fisher first or after getting Ryder? Did they recover Kirkland's body? When Alec calls for an extraction, Cora says "They're sending us a shuttle. ETA three, maybe four minutes"
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Post by themikefest on Sept 11, 2017 18:25:32 GMT
When Alec calls for an extraction, Cora says "They're sending us a shuttle. ETA three, maybe four minutes" Three is longer than a couple as you say. Did that one minute or two minutes make a difference? Don't know. It's too bad Caryle didn't say anything about that when talking with Ryder after being asked how his/her father died. Still curious if they recovered Kirkland's body. I also wonder if they recovered Alec's body.
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thelonelypoet
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Post by thelonelypoet on Sept 11, 2017 18:48:15 GMT
Actually before the game came out I assumed that dad Ryder faked his death and for personal and selfish reasons, was working with the Kett or the Outlaws and he would serve as some sort of antagonist. This was absolutely the same what I was assuming. It would have been great. But the point Alec dies the game starts it official downfall, what a shame to waste so great character. :-(
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 11, 2017 19:11:15 GMT
I'm a bit confused. What's the actual bad writing supposed to be here? I assume the faking death theory.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 11, 2017 19:36:23 GMT
Actually before the game came out I assumed that dad Ryder faked his death and for personal and selfish reasons, was working with the Kett or the Outlaws and he would serve as some sort of antagonist. This was absolutely the same what I was assuming. It would have been great. But the point Alec dies the game starts it official downfall, what a shame to waste so great character. :-( Wait... you're endorsing the idea of Alec Ryder working with either a species he's never heard of or a political group he doesn't even know exists? And setting this up in advance? And lying to his own child about it, while keeping Cora, Liam et al. in the loop? Even by BSN standards this is nuts.
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Post by thelonelypoet on Sept 11, 2017 19:50:48 GMT
This was absolutely the same what I was assuming. It would have been great. But the point Alec dies the game starts it official downfall, what a shame to waste so great character. :-( Wait... you're endorsing the idea of Alec Ryder working with either a species he's never heard of or a political group he doesn't even know exists? And setting this up in advance? And lying to his own child about it, while keeping Cora, Liam et al. in the loop? Even by BSN standards this is nuts. Heh, I understand how you feel about it. Even the greatest minds can be corrupted, for example, The Illusive Man. And Alec Ryder was always an idealist. Maybe the AI SAM in his head started to corrupt him or feed him with ideas. Alec also was never close to his kids but he was very paranoid and over protective over his wife. He couldn't let go, which is understandable, but this would also drove him into madness. Well, maybe he wouldn't fake his death but he could perhaps, in time, change. Maybe he discovers something in Andromeda and does not share the knowledge - would already suit his secretive persona. Maybe he makes the deal with the devil to save his wife and his closest ones. Maybe he, in some point, gets exiled. And a player could then choose to spare his father or not and with consequenses. Many possibilities. But they just killed him off.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 11, 2017 23:20:36 GMT
But how could any of that happen early in the game?
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Post by XJlock on Sept 12, 2017 2:32:50 GMT
Judging by the memory of Alec revealing to his child that there is still hope for Ellen Ryder, it seems fair to assume he is indeed dead for now.
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Post by xassantex on Sept 12, 2017 3:28:47 GMT
i always wondered about that. 30 second each plus the few seconds it takes to switch. They could have done it. Or was Ryder jr already too intoxicated and gasping so his father wouldn't risk limited oxygen , if he was even able to assess such a situation at that precise moment. I wondered about it the first time I saw it, too. Maybe it's like how the airlines say to put your own oxygen mask on before helping your child, because if you pass out your kid can't help you. He didn't want to chance passing out with the helmet in his hands or Ryder's toxicity getting too high, and Ryder was too weak to press the issue. Also probably incapacitated by SAM doing all that interior redecorating. indeed. plus i still wonder they are still using gorilla glass 3 in 2186.
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Post by rolenka on Sept 12, 2017 4:03:37 GMT
Actually before the game came out I assumed that dad Ryder faked his death and for personal and selfish reasons, was working with the Kett or the Outlaws and he would serve as some sort of antagonist. This was absolutely the same what I was assuming. It would have been great. But the point Alec dies the game starts it official downfall, what a shame to waste so great character. :-( tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StuffedIntoTheFridgeI hate this trope, but something had to make Ryder the hero. It also makes Ryder a sort of microcosm of the initiative: thrust into an alien environment (leadership with no guidance) making great demands of you. It's kind of elegant. Thankfully even after serving this purpose, Alec has a long part to play before credits roll.
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Post by Element Zero on Sept 12, 2017 4:37:57 GMT
I'm a bit confused. What's the actual bad writing supposed to be here? For one thing, they could have just shared the helmet. They only needed a couple of minutes for the shuttle to get there. I see this come up a lot, but I'm not convinced that it would've been practical. This is essentially a space suit, not a breather mask. It seals and presumably repressurizes each time it's attached to the head. How much air would've been lost with each swap? We can't say. Air pressure on H7 was 2.3 atmos, so not enough to really make much of a difference being bare-faced for a few minutes. The atmosphere is mostly Argon and Nitrogen, which makes it completely non-toxic (despite what our protagonist says). It's not life sustaining, but it won't actively harm a person. Maybe if Alec could've held his breathe for 2-3 minutes, which is not as easy as it sounds, then Scott/Sara could followed with the same. This seems iffy, given the circumstances and quick decision-making necessitated. Ultimately, I doubt it was solely lack of air that killed Alec. He may've been able to survive with no lasting damage, depending how quickly the shuttle arrived. He chose to transfer SAM+ to his child, though, and no doubt experienced huge trauma in severing his special connection. (The real question is would he even need to do this? Could SAM fully integrate with as many members of the team as desired? Maybe this is outside its design? Again, we can't say. We have to go with the facts presented.) Ultimately, it's very easy to present a number of reasons as to why sharing the helmet may not have been a realistic option. I'd hardly call this bad writing, as some do. They could've explained his death better, no doubt. I think being able to pay a visit (or more than one) to a cryopod holding Alec's remains could've added a lot to the game. Still, this is more a lack of detail than a case of presenting an unreasonable scenario.
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Post by danielhungary on Sept 13, 2017 18:24:45 GMT
Is nobody really talking about this? Think about it for a minute. - We never get to see Alec's body to confirm his death.
- Why would he just disappear from the site where Ryder passed out? It has nothing to do with running out of oxygen.
- By the time Cora and Liam arrived, he was nowhere to be found. WHY?
Or is it just bad writing? Later in the game there is an important scene with your brother/sister and that is where Alec's death is confirmed 2nd time.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Sept 13, 2017 18:38:07 GMT
For one thing, they could have just shared the helmet. They only needed a couple of minutes for the shuttle to get there. I see this come up a lot, but I'm not convinced that it would've been practical. This is essentially a space suit, not a breather mask. It seals and presumably repressurizes each time it's attached to the head. How much air would've been lost with each swap? We can't say. Air pressure on H7 was 2.3 atmos, so not enough to really make much of a difference being bare-faced for a few minutes. The atmosphere is mostly Argon and Nitrogen, which makes it completely non-toxic (despite what our protagonist says). It's not life sustaining, but it won't actively harm a person. Maybe if Alec could've held his breathe for 2-3 minutes, which is not as easy as it sounds, then Scott/Sara could followed with the same. This seems iffy, given the circumstances and quick decision-making necessitated. Ultimately, I doubt it was solely lack of air that killed Alec. He may've been able to survive with no lasting damage, depending how quickly the shuttle arrived. He chose to transfer SAM+ to his child, though, and no doubt experienced huge trauma in severing his special connection. (The real question is would he even need to do this? Could SAM fully integrate with as many members of the team as desired? Maybe this is outside its design? Again, we can't say. We have to go with the facts presented.) Ultimately, it's very easy to present a number of reasons as to why sharing the helmet may not have been a realistic option. I'd hardly call this bad writing, as some do. They could've explained his death better, no doubt. I think being able to pay a visit (or more than one) to a cryopod holding Alec's remains could've added a lot to the game. Still, this is more a lack of detail than a case of presenting an unreasonable scenario. The fact that his death is explained so poorly is bad writing. If the scene is to have impact, you have to understand why it is happening. Details that call into the question the necessity of such a sacrifice cheapens the scene.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 13, 2017 18:55:04 GMT
Did anyone really not understand that the unbreatheable air was killing him?
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Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mannyray on Sept 13, 2017 19:48:02 GMT
Is nobody really talking about this? Think about it for a minute. - We never get to see Alec's body to confirm his death.
- Why would he just disappear from the site where Ryder passed out? It has nothing to do with running out of oxygen.
- By the time Cora and Liam arrived, he was nowhere to be found. WHY?
Or is it just bad writing? I think it's just your perceptions as other posters indicated above my post. Bad writing is star wars EU novels.
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Post by Element Zero on Sept 13, 2017 20:43:59 GMT
I see this come up a lot, but I'm not convinced that it would've been practical. This is essentially a space suit, not a breather mask. It seals and presumably repressurizes each time it's attached to the head. How much air would've been lost with each swap? We can't say. Air pressure on H7 was 2.3 atmos, so not enough to really make much of a difference being bare-faced for a few minutes. The atmosphere is mostly Argon and Nitrogen, which makes it completely non-toxic (despite what our protagonist says). It's not life sustaining, but it won't actively harm a person. Maybe if Alec could've held his breathe for 2-3 minutes, which is not as easy as it sounds, then Scott/Sara could followed with the same. This seems iffy, given the circumstances and quick decision-making necessitated. Ultimately, I doubt it was solely lack of air that killed Alec. He may've been able to survive with no lasting damage, depending how quickly the shuttle arrived. He chose to transfer SAM+ to his child, though, and no doubt experienced huge trauma in severing his special connection. (The real question is would he even need to do this? Could SAM fully integrate with as many members of the team as desired? Maybe this is outside its design? Again, we can't say. We have to go with the facts presented.) Ultimately, it's very easy to present a number of reasons as to why sharing the helmet may not have been a realistic option. I'd hardly call this bad writing, as some do. They could've explained his death better, no doubt. I think being able to pay a visit (or more than one) to a cryopod holding Alec's remains could've added a lot to the game. Still, this is more a lack of detail than a case of presenting an unreasonable scenario. The fact that his death is explained so poorly is bad writing. If the scene is to have impact, you have to understand why it is happening. Details that call into the question the necessity of such a sacrifice cheapens the scene. In my opinion, the scene was clear and raised no questions. I honestly don't see why the game should have to address the reasons (or cover its ass, so to speak) why swapping a vacuum-sealed space helmet is infeasible. I thought Alec acted reasonably, given the circumstances, and that his death was likely unavoidable.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 13, 2017 20:48:50 GMT
We need a spacesuit expert to settle the technical question. But at worst, that just means that they were getting a technical issue wrong, and this would hardly be the first time Bio did that.
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Post by kalasaurus on Sept 13, 2017 20:56:44 GMT
I'm not sure why this idea keeps reappearing. ... and clearly so. Alec is the new Duncan
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Sept 13, 2017 20:57:56 GMT
The fact that his death is explained so poorly is bad writing. If the scene is to have impact, you have to understand why it is happening. Details that call into the question the necessity of such a sacrifice cheapens the scene. In my opinion, the scene was clear and raised no questions. I honestly don't see why the game should have to address the reasons (or cover its ass, so to speak) why swapping a vacuum-sealed space helmet is infeasible. I thought Alec acted reasonably, given the circumstances, and that his death was likely unavoidable. It was clear that Alec died, yes. But it's unclear why he had to die. A shuttle evac was only 3-4 minutes away. The atmosphere was unbreathable, but not especially toxic, and they both still had their air supplies (if not a sealed suit). It strikes me that survival was plausible for both. Not to say one or both may suffer debilitating damage, of course. But with immediate medical treatment, they both could have pulled through. I mean, it's not like they were exposed to vacuum and atmospheric reentry...
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 13, 2017 21:16:00 GMT
I don't see how that connects with impact.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Sept 13, 2017 21:18:17 GMT
I don't see how that connects with impact. Because if Alec sacrifices himself doing something that's clearly not survivable, but enables his child to live, that's touching. If Alec sacrifices himself doing something idiotic when they both could have survived, that's stupid.
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Post by cypherj on Sept 13, 2017 21:28:17 GMT
In my opinion, the scene was clear and raised no questions. I honestly don't see why the game should have to address the reasons (or cover its ass, so to speak) why swapping a vacuum-sealed space helmet is infeasible. I thought Alec acted reasonably, given the circumstances, and that his death was likely unavoidable. It was clear that Alec died, yes. But it's unclear why he had to die. A shuttle evac was only 3-4 minutes away. The atmosphere was unbreathable, but not especially toxic, and they both still had their air supplies (if not a sealed suit). It strikes me that survival was plausible for both. Not to say one or both may suffer debilitating damage, of course. But with immediate medical treatment, they both could have pulled through. I mean, it's not like they were exposed to vacuum and atmospheric reentry... Judging by what happened when you just cracked your helmet, I say someone being totally exposed would have been pretty bad. I thought it looked completely broken, but people say it was just cracked. But either way, Ryder was going to die pretty quickly if he/she hadn't done repairs.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 13, 2017 21:32:34 GMT
It was clear that Alec died, yes. But it's unclear why he had to die. A shuttle evac was only 3-4 minutes away. The atmosphere was unbreathable, but not especially toxic, and they both still had their air supplies (if not a sealed suit). It strikes me that survival was plausible for both. Not to say one or both may suffer debilitating damage, of course. But with immediate medical treatment, they both could have pulled through. I mean, it's not like they were exposed to vacuum and atmospheric reentry... Judging by what happened when you just cracked your helmet, I say someone being totally exposed would have been pretty bad. You were going pretty fast when you cracked your helmet. I thought it looked completely broken, but people say it was only cracked. But either way, Ryder was going to die pretty quickly if he/she hadn't done repairs. But die from what? It's a Nitrogen-Argon atmosphere. You'll suffocate in that eventually, but it's not toxic. The temperature was 17 Celsius, which is perfectly livable. So what's so bad about the atmosphere that it will kill you dead with 3-4 minutes of exposure?
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Post by anarchy65 on Sept 13, 2017 21:37:45 GMT
It would be so cheap if he was still alive. "Hey, not only we make their mom look dead so they can find out she's alive, we also make their dad look dead so in the next game they find out he's alive"
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