TheodoricFriede
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 397 Likes: 917
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Mar 8, 2018 1:11:37 GMT
you would have preferred the War Table to not have happened? I think the war table is one of the worst aspects of the Inquisition, but at least in that case, they made a teeny, tiny, effort to put the information IN the game. I was referring to the books and comics that are apparently SO important, that its literally impossible to understand whats going on in the series without them. And if you think you do, you really, really dont. If your game lives and dies by its story, and you are not presenting enough of the story in the game for it to be completely understandable without tertiary content, that is a problem.
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Post by phoray on Mar 8, 2018 1:12:11 GMT
The amount of content covered in "side content" is enough to be an entire other video game. I see it kinda like the War Tables. It was either get it in text form or not at all. I don't mind it as long as the game does a good job of giving the player any relevant background to the situation. But with say, Celene and Briala, the player only understands how messed up they are if they read the Masked Empire. I guess you can argue that the inquisitor wouldn't have that info anyway, but it still feels kinda cheap imo. Celene's Cleansing of an Alienage is apparently in Codex but the description doesn't at all make it clear that it was a Politically motivated response to a play in which she murdered everyone and burned the place to the ground. So... I dunno, not exactly Full Education on the matter.
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Post by phoray on Mar 8, 2018 1:23:18 GMT
I was referring to the books and comics that are apparently SO important, that its literally impossible to understand whats going on in the series without them. And if you think you do, you really, really dont. Well, some other forum members have argued against my stance. My stance being that Anders' Chantry Explosion caused issues, but certainly didn't cause the war. Others argue his actions were important. My stance puts a LOT of importance on Asunder's events, but if you really feel that Anders got it going, Asunder's stuff is just minor details about the preliminary scuffles leading to the official war. There is a codex about Celene cleansing the alienage, I just don't feel like it paints the appropriate picture so people know that Celene is hardcore willing to murder. Not "haha murder" like Leliana, like brutally murder Briala's parents because they may know a secret that may weaken Celene on the road to ascending and keeping the throne. But they omit more details about Briala too. I feel like Gaspard is the only one to be openly clear about what a war mongering racist prick he is. PEople find that refreshing? and say, "oh look, he doesn't play the game!" but no. He plays, and he's willing to murder people very dishonorably to do so. So I feel that all three are only partially represented well in the game. But at the end of the day, these people can't be true players of "the Game" if they dump all their secrets on the Inky. That'd be terrible writing. And Loghain's actions really speak for themselves, the book has a chance of making you more sympathetic. Marric's whereabouts, and the Therin blood having connections to the Mystery of High Dragons, have almost no significance. Thus far, anyway, so I guess it doesn't much matter that they weren't in the games. It'd be nice if they explored the countries of Thedas in ways that didn't introduce characters that would be called upon to be in the next game's events. I'd love some short stories of Theodosians just being Theodosians. Maybe they could even just be family members or friends of characters that would be in the Games. Like Cassandra's uncle that raised her, we could see all this Nevarran Culture explored in finer detail from his POV. More of Thedas, connection to a Game Character some people love, uncle doesn't show up anywhere in the games and are just referenced? I don't know, I guess something "exciting" would have to happen to bother making a book of it.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 8, 2018 1:41:37 GMT
I was referring to the books and comics that are apparently SO important, that its literally impossible to understand whats going on in the series without them. And if you think you do, you really, really dont. Well, some other forum members have argued against my stance. My stance being that Anders' Chantry Explosion caused issues, but certainly didn't cause the war. Others argue his actions were important. My stance puts a LOT of importance on Asunder's events, but if you really feel that Anders got it going, Asunder's stuff is just minor details about the preliminary scuffles leading to the official war. There is a codex about Celene cleansing the alienage, I just don't feel like it paints the appropriate picture so people know that Celene is hardcore willing to murder. Not "haha murder" like Leliana, like brutally murder Briala's parents because they may know a secret that may weaken Celene on the road to ascending and keeping the throne. But they omit more details about Briala too. I feel like Gaspard is the only one to be openly clear about what a war mongering racist prick he is. PEople find that refreshing? and say, "oh look, he doesn't play the game!" but no. He plays, and he's willing to murder people very dishonorably to do so. So I feel that all three are only partially represented well in the game. But at the end of the day, these people can't be true players of "the Game" if they dump all their secrets on the Inky. That'd be terrible writing.
And Loghain's actions really speak for themselves, the book has a chance of making you more sympathetic. Marric's whereabouts, and the Therin blood having connections to the Mystery of High Dragons, have almost no significance. Thus far, anyway, so I guess it doesn't much matter that they weren't in the games.
It'd be nice if they explored the countries of Thedas in ways that didn't introduce characters that would be called upon to be in the next game's events. I'd love some short stories of Theodosians just being Theodosians. Maybe they could even just be family members or friends of characters that would be in the Games. Like Cassandra's uncle that raised her, we could see all this Nevarran Culture explored in finer detail from his POV. More of Thedas, connection to a Game Character some people love, uncle doesn't show up anywhere in the games and are just referenced? I don't know, I guess something "exciting" would have to happen to bother making a book of it. Hello! I'm right here! True, and not true. Anders caused the rebellion, but the war caused by the Seekers and the Templars. I started to read the Asunder, and at the beginning it's clear, that the events started by Anders' act. He was who launched the avalanche. (And now: I want to him a sculpture, right next to my Hawke.)
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Post by phoray on Mar 8, 2018 2:01:58 GMT
hhahahaha you knew I was talking to you, the senses of Cat I was trying not to name names, thought it'd be unfair. Or perhaps similar to throwing An Anders Plushie at your feet or a red cape in front of a bull.
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Post by Walter Black on Mar 8, 2018 4:36:22 GMT
I let him go in my cannon worldstate. ...Wait, that's an option? You can release him and not get the idea that he goes out and murders some more? Well, Imsheal does kill Michel de Chevin if you let him go. On the whole, I got the impression that it generally prefers manipulating others into making "such interesting choices" :gasp: .
Hmm, kinda surprised they don't have a shocked/scared/shudder Smilie...
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Post by phoray on Mar 8, 2018 5:11:50 GMT
Well, Imsheal does kill Michel de Chevin if you let him go. WUT EVEN Imshael staying alive is now MY cannon. I hate Michel de Chevin!
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Post by Walter Black on Mar 8, 2018 5:43:39 GMT
Well, Imsheal does kill Michel de Chevin if you let him go. WUT EVEN Imshael staying alive is now MY cannon. I hate Michel de Chevin! So in order to appease your hatred of Michel de Chevin, you are fine with not just throwing away possible redemption and all the good he could he could for the Inquisition, but also all the countless innocent lives Imshael would corrupt and destroy? Not judging, I find him to be an arrogant, racist, hypocritical, self righteous asshole. I just think it is an interesting... Choice .
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davesin
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by davesin on Mar 8, 2018 5:54:39 GMT
WUT EVEN Imshael staying alive is now MY cannon. I hate Michel de Chevin! So in order to appease your hatred of Michel de Chevin, you are fine with not just throwing away possible redemption and all the good he could he could for the Inquisition, but also all the countless innocent lives Imshael would corrupt and destroy? Not judging, I find him to be an arrogant, racist, hypocritical, self righteous asshole. I just think it is an interesting... Choice . It's the other's choice to be screwed over in future! It's not player's fault the common folk can't reach protagonist status to kill the spirit!
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Post by phoray on Mar 8, 2018 6:00:13 GMT
WUT EVEN Imshael staying alive is now MY cannon. I hate Michel de Chevin! So in order to appease your hatred of Michel de Chevin, you are fine with not just throwing away possible redemption and all the good he could he could for the Inquisition, but also all the countless innocent lives Imshael would corrupt and destroy? Not judging, I find him to be an arrogant, racist, hypocritical, self righteous asshole. I just think it is an interesting... Choice . If only I could tell Imshael it was for this very reason...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2018 6:29:52 GMT
We've had a deeply romantic mage like Anders and a mysterious and sad one like Solas, so I think we might get a Tevinter Mage who is more darker and reserved but not exactly like a male Morrigan. He won't be rude or have ulterior motives, but he'll be quiet, reserved and focused on the cause. Romancing him will not be easy, but worth it. Hopefully he is bi. I also think we will get a female Dwarf warrior and a male dwarf Rogue romance or vice-versa. Qunari will hopefully be a male and female one, both do not have to be companions. One could be like Reyes maybe. Non-Dalish or ancient elf romance. City Elf instead. Maybe a rogue one.
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davkar
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by davkar on Mar 8, 2018 6:55:16 GMT
I was referring to the books and comics that are apparently SO important, that its literally impossible to understand whats going on in the series without them. And if you think you do, you really, really dont. Well, some other forum members have argued against my stance. My stance being that Anders' Chantry Explosion caused issues, but certainly didn't cause the war. Others argue his actions were important. My stance puts a LOT of importance on Asunder's events, but if you really feel that Anders got it going, Asunder's stuff is just minor details about the preliminary scuffles leading to the official war. There is a codex about Celene cleansing the alienage, I just don't feel like it paints the appropriate picture so people know that Celene is hardcore willing to murder. Not "haha murder" like Leliana, like brutally murder Briala's parents because they may know a secret that may weaken Celene on the road to ascending and keeping the throne. But they omit more details about Briala too. I feel like Gaspard is the only one to be openly clear about what a war mongering racist prick he is. PEople find that refreshing? and say, "oh look, he doesn't play the game!" but no. He plays, and he's willing to murder people very dishonorably to do so. So I feel that all three are only partially represented well in the game. But at the end of the day, these people can't be true players of "the Game" if they dump all their secrets on the Inky. That'd be terrible writing. And Loghain's actions really speak for themselves, the book has a chance of making you more sympathetic. Marric's whereabouts, and the Therin blood having connections to the Mystery of High Dragons, have almost no significance. Thus far, anyway, so I guess it doesn't much matter that they weren't in the games. It'd be nice if they explored the countries of Thedas in ways that didn't introduce characters that would be called upon to be in the next game's events. I'd love some short stories of Theodosians just being Theodosians. Maybe they could even just be family members or friends of characters that would be in the Games. Like Cassandra's uncle that raised her, we could see all this Nevarran Culture explored in finer detail from his POV. More of Thedas, connection to a Game Character some people love, uncle doesn't show up anywhere in the games and are just referenced? I don't know, I guess something "exciting" would have to happen to bother making a book of it. This is why I'd like bw to bring back the DAO type chronicles/short stories thing. That way they shouldn't have to cram every current event into the game. I feel DA4 will be overcrowded too with the qunari war, the change tevinter plot, the solas plan, the warden civil war, kal-sharok and the whatever else. Descent for example should have been a standalone story. I don't think it was the inqi's job to clean up that mess - no rifts, only darkspawn + legion of the dead? The perfect opportunity to bring back Sigrun and Oghren and others from the DAA team. Also these side stories can be the perfect place to test things from gameplay elements to character types. Mounts? Shit-> then don't put them in the full game. The players like the cute dwarven girl? Give her a bigger role in the main series! And on that note: I don't want Harding as an LI if we get a new protagonist. They had chemistry with the inqi (and hurry up Keep, acknowledge that 'romance' already... ), with a new main character it wouldn't be the same. Cute-smol-Liara was the dream, but let's see someone new.
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Post by Walter Black on Mar 8, 2018 7:00:24 GMT
We've had a deeply romantic mage like Anders and a mysterious and sad one like Solas, so I think we might get a Tevinter Mage who is more darker and reserved but not exactly like a male Morrigan. He won't be rude or have ulterior motives, but he'll be quiet, reserved and focused on the cause. Romancing him will not be easy, but worth it. Hopefully he is bi. Nope, Maveris or Calpernia are more likely to be our Vint mage Companion. However, there's no reason this dark and stoic ubermensch couldn't be an elven renegade or awakened Evanaris, a Tal-Vashoth Saarebas , an Avvar shaman, a Rivanni Seer, a Titan touched dwarf, and so on. Hell, they don't even have to be mages, it could be and Imperial Reaver or Templar, an Ambassadoria dwarven rogue, anything...
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coldsteelblue
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
PSN: coldsteelblue
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Post by coldsteelblue on Mar 8, 2018 10:02:11 GMT
Sooo, only the main world canon, nothing too important then? I honestly don't understand this question. Sorry my bad, I was expressing sarcastic displeasure about how much important stuff is placed into the extended media, instead of the games, is all, don't worry about it.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 8, 2018 11:29:48 GMT
Well, Imsheal does kill Michel de Chevin if you let him go. WUT EVEN Imshael staying alive is now MY cannon. I hate Michel de Chevin! I also hate the books can bring pieces of information, what overwrite the in-game choices or too important to hiding them in another media, but still: the Inquisitor doesn't know Michel Chevin. S/He only saw a knight who wants help against a demon (one of the strongest, dangerous demons). To help him, even with a Dalish, is believable. Only the player can know his shady background...
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Post by phoray on Mar 8, 2018 13:39:57 GMT
and all the good he could he could for the Inquisition, Who needs another jackboot? especially an amoral one.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Mar 8, 2018 13:40:52 GMT
Well, Imsheal does kill Michel de Chevin if you let him go. WUT EVEN Imshael staying alive is now MY cannon. I hate Michel de Chevin! Ha! Welcome to the dark side.
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Post by phoray on Mar 8, 2018 13:42:03 GMT
WUT EVEN Imshael staying alive is now MY cannon. I hate Michel de Chevin! I also hate the books can bring pieces of information, what overwrite the in-game choices or too important to hiding them in another media, but still: the Inquisitor doesn't know Michel Chevin. S/He only saw a knight who wants help against a demon (one of the strongest, dangerous demons). To help him, even with a Dalish, is believable. Only the player can know his shady background... Alternatively, I could just remember not to talk to him after completing the quest. Leave him standing in Emprise De Lion. Last time I killed Imshael, I went to tell Michel it had happened but that, no, I wouldn't be allowing him to join the Inquisition. But then he auto joins! if you talk to him at all after Imshael dies!
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Post by Walter Black on Mar 8, 2018 14:55:35 GMT
and all the good he could he could for the Inquisition, Who needs another jackboot? especially an amoral one. So in your personal canon, you never:
-Recruited Sten (murdered civilians and children), Zevran (unrepentant assassin who tried to kill you), Loghain (traitor who plunged Fereldan into a civil war during a Blight), Anders (unreliable apostate), Nathaniel (tried to kill you), Justice (undead Abomination) or Velanna (got members of her own clan killed pursuing vengeance, and unrepentant over the civilians she killed) ?
- Kept Ohgren around when you saw what an asshole he was, Leliana when she confessed her past, or Morrigan for being Morrigan?
-Did the Dark Ritual, or had Alistair or Loghain do it?
-Kept Anders around when you found out he was an unstable Abomination and budding terrorist, Merrill for being a dangerously naïve bloodmage, or defended Isabella from the Qunari when her selfishness started a war that killed many innocents?
- Recruited Sera (unrepentant anarchist criminal) or Iron Bull (admitted spy)?
- Allied with the Mages, Templars , or Grey Wardens, despite their numerous screw ups?
- Pardoned Thom Rainer or gave him to the Wardens?
-Vowed to redeem Solas?
Each choice is legitimate, and you can make your PC as straight forward or complex as you wish. But if you did any number of the above, how exactly is Michel different?
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Post by phoray on Mar 8, 2018 15:29:00 GMT
So in your personal canon, you never: I put Amorality as being no outward sign of recognizing that they'd committed a crime and no feeling of sincere regret or remorse. Add the Layer of "I follow an honorable code because I'm part of an Honorable Order" and my knee jerk reaction is that this is a sociopath in need of the murder knife. Even if any of the people you listed honestly had no regret or remorse (and most of them did) none of them claim to be from an honorable order. Even his mission to destroy Imshael so easily can be chalked up to his pride over being tricked that I don't even see that as a redemption arc.
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Post by Walter Black on Mar 8, 2018 15:41:14 GMT
So in your personal canon, you never: I put Amorality as being no outward sign of recognizing that they'd committed a crime and no feeling of sincere regret or remorse. Add the Layer of "I follow an honorable code because I'm part of an Honorable Order" and my knee jerk reaction is that this is a sociopath in need of the murder knife. Even if any of the people you listed honestly had no regret or remorse (and most of them did) none of them claim to be from an honorable order. Even his mission to destroy Imshael so easily can be chalked up to his pride over being tricked that I don't even see that as a redemption arc. Maybe that's one of the reasons I recruit Michel; Inquisition railroads us heavily into being the hero, more so than most Bioware games. I miss the old Bioware where we had the option of being, and associating with, outright villains.
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Post by phoray on Mar 8, 2018 15:53:34 GMT
Maybe that's one of the reasons I recruit Michel; Inquisition railroads us heavily into being the hero, more so than most Bioware games. I miss the old Bioware where we had the option of being, and associating with, outright villains. If you call dealing with him via War Table association...I also consider Leliana, Thom Rainier, and Sera to be a Criminal. Leliana is, unfortunately, untouchable, for I hate her so very much in DAI for so many reasons. You may respond that these are not outright villains, but neither is Michel truly a villain either. They don't even let your Inky know the events of Masked Empire to know anything one way or the other. So he shows up saying, "I must kill the demon! I've vowed it because I am a KISA!" bleh
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Post by Walter Black on Mar 8, 2018 15:58:34 GMT
Maybe that's one of the reasons I recruit Michel; Inquisition railroads us heavily into being the hero, more so than most Bioware games. I miss the old Bioware where we had the option of being, and associating with, outright villains. If you call dealing with him via War Table association...I also consider Leliana, Thom Rainier, and Sera to be a Criminal. Leliana is, unfortunately, untouchable, for I hate her so very much in DAI for so many reasons. You may respond that these are not outright villains, but neither is Michel truly a villain either. They don't even let your Inky know the events of Masked Empire to know anything one way or the other. So he shows up saying, "I must kill the demon! I've vowed it because I am a KISA!" bleh Probably not, but at this point I'll take what I can get .
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Post by Sifr on Mar 8, 2018 16:12:17 GMT
So I gather people wouldn't have minded Michel having gotten possessed by Imshael if you let the Demon Choice. Spirit. live?
Would have been a more fun outcome than simply killing him (offscreen no less), that keeps "Michel" alive and in play going forward.
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theascendent
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
PSN: The Ascendent
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Post by theascendent on Mar 8, 2018 16:49:45 GMT
I would like to see the difficulties of an arranged marriage. You the PC, if a human mage, one of your potential companions who is a human mage of the opposite gender has been arranged to marry you for political reasons. This could be resolved in any number of ways, and it could impact how others see you. How to treat your intended spouse will also affect their feelings on the matter. It's unlikely I know, but it would be interesting to see this part of medieval life more fleshed out.
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