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Post by AnDromedary on May 14, 2022 2:09:51 GMT
Yep. two for two indeed. Another very nice episode there for SNW. Though the premise really is a bit weird, especially coming right after episode 1. I mean, they are blatently disregarding GO1/the prime directive, at least in the form it existed in the 24th century. The way Pike phrases it ("we do not interfere but we also do not let civilizations die") is quite a bit different from what we've seen in TNG for example. I am not as familiar with how it was in TOS, maybe the rule was adjusted over the years and this is consistent with TOS but still, especially after episode 1 this was a bit of a convenient one phrase distinction there.
Other than that, I really liked the musical theme, especially with Uhura in the mix. Did anyone else get the impression this was a little nod towards the fact that Nichelle Nichols was barely ever given an opportunity to show off her singing talents in Star Trek despite her wish to do so more often? In any event, I thought it was a nice puzzle for her to solve.
I also like how no character so far is useless. Uhura certainly gets to shine. Pike, Spock and Number One always have enough to do anyway. I think we talked about it before, how tactical officers used to have a hard time on ST (still feeling for ya Worf), La'an does get to show off her competence though, so does Ortega. If I had a complaint, it's that Dr. M'Benga wasn't there at all this episode (probably production reasons I'd guess) and after 2 episodes, we still barely have seen anything of Hemmer.
Oh, and one more, I mean, I know it was just a simulation but the comet hitting the planet in the beginning looked seriously weird. In that sim, it looked like it'd be huuuuge (as in 1/10th of the planet's size or something), definitely bigger than later. And even if it were that big, that didn't look right. First "bad" (or at least weird) VFX I've seen in this show so far.
But, those are really nitpicks. They are definitely off to a good start here.
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Post by colfoley on May 14, 2022 7:02:11 GMT
Yep. two for two indeed. Another very nice episode there for SNW. Though the premise really is a bit weird, especially coming right after episode 1. I mean, they are blatently disregarding GO1/the prime directive, at least in the form it existed in the 24th century. The way Pike phrases it ("we do not interfere but we also do not let civilizations die") is quite a bit different from what we've seen in TNG for example. I am not as familiar with how it was in TOS, maybe the rule was adjusted over the years and this is consistent with TOS but still, especially after episode 1 this was a bit of a convenient one phrase distinction there.
Other than that, I really liked the musical theme, especially with Uhura in the mix. Did anyone else get the impression this was a little nod towards the fact that Nichelle Nichols was barely ever given an opportunity to show off her singing talents in Star Trek despite her wish to do so more often? In any event, I thought it was a nice puzzle for her to solve.
I also like how no character so far is useless. Uhura certainly gets to shine. Pike, Spock and Number One always have enough to do anyway. I think we talked about it before, how tactical officers used to have a hard time on ST (still feeling for ya Worf), La'an does get to show off her competence though, so does Ortega. If I had a complaint, it's that Dr. M'Benga wasn't there at all this episode (probably production reasons I'd guess) and after 2 episodes, we still barely have seen anything of Hemmer.
Oh, and one more, I mean, I know it was just a simulation but the comet hitting the planet in the beginning looked seriously weird. In that sim, it looked like it'd be huuuuge (as in 1/10th of the planet's size or something), definitely bigger than later. And even if it were that big, that didn't look right. First "bad" (or at least weird) VFX I've seen in this show so far.
But, those are really nitpicks. They are definitely off to a good start here.
1. I think what you mentioned is probably most of the in universe explanation. As I mentioned in the recap from episode 1 they did change the name from GO 1 to the PD. This to me suggested a tightening of the protocols in general and...maybe this is part of it? That this example will be one of the things that Starfleet uses as justification for the more strict policy in the 24th century afterall we did see the Sheperds bitch about the Enterprise's 'interference'.
2. They have been on record as saying they weren t going to use canon as a 'ball and chain' essentially, they will follow it but they will change it if its the best thing for the story. and in this case...as I mentioned last time...if thi does represent a change to GO1/PD a 'softer' portryal then I am all for it. This is pretty much the perfect situation from what I mentioned from episode 1 because the Enterprise was not made aware to the locals. Their technology was not exposed. They did not influence them...as far as the locals knew this just happened all on its own which is pretty much what I think it should be.
3. From a moralist perspective keeping the top two in mind I certainly have little issue with what Pike did. Yes, there is a worry that they might become reliant on Starfleet to live their lives the whole 'teach a man to fish' parable, but since they didn't reveal themselves its highly likely that will apply. And the worry that their 'interference' might backfire somewhere down the line does not seem to be a strong enough excuse to not interfere. I know the PD, at least in that case, usually just applies to Pre War socities but at some point if you are worried that your actions will lead to a society becoming a bunch of murderers and conqurors in a thousand years...or something...then Doctor's shouldn't be able to cure plagues on the same grounds. Because you just might happen to accidentally have cured Adolph Hitler.
As far as Uhura is concerned I do find it funny that this is the exact same character beat as Hoshi in Enterprise. Now this does make some sense to me since comms officers became ancilarery and redundant in later Trek, replaced by Ops or Tactical, so their redundancy reflects the character's listlessness I always felt...still its amusing. Though its also ironic that, so far at least, Uhurha seems to be having the much better arc.
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Post by hoku on May 19, 2022 18:36:40 GMT
3 for 3 - I REALLY like SNW a lot so far! What a fun combo of: "sci-fi story of the week" interwoven with a "message of the week" and character spotlights and arcs. Can't wait for more, especially love all the "NEW" characters and I'm including (Una, M'Benga, Chapell) and not just Laan; Ortegas, Hemmer in them. Even the legacy Pike/Spock/Uhura ones are interesting for a change.
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Post by colfoley on May 19, 2022 20:43:35 GMT
Well I guess they can't all be home runs but I still did enjoy the episode and...strem of consiousness incoming I fear! So this episode tried to do two things this week and I do not think they hit either nail entirely on the head. You had the character aspects of the show and the character arc that was building and then you had the typical parable aspect which is kind of fascinating that this is a theme in each episodes plot structure that is happening and it is...interesting...because I do not think you really had each episode of classic trek do this. Some of it was just general science fictiony concept of the week, but each episode so far has had some larger message vaguely related to what is happening.
So yeah, two things to talk about it with this. It is an interesting character development and something that could provide fodder later on and its like 'wow cool'...Una is an Augment. Wow. Its a good idea to give that character a little bit of a character niggle...but, perhaps an unfair comparison but I did think of it, they did this a lot better with Bashir. So far at least. Which goes into it because there was plenty of unintentional build up to that plot point because Bashir was very smart. Very weird. Very intentionally arrogant and there was mystery there...mystery solved. I feel like that this could have been handled a lot better if this were episode 8 or 9 of the season, just move this episode later in the season and set it up give us little hints that Una is a genie....which then of course brings us to how her and La'an interacted. Now yes, this is an actual thing that can happen with...well racism...and she was infected with the light porn...but it just felt really flat to me.
However, I did really, really like M'Benga's part in this because him and Una reacted a lot better because this was perfect juxtoposition. Here you have M'Benga whose secret put the Enterprise in danger and he was willing to hide it even in a crisis situation which might have put the Enterprise in further risk. But Una...dead lifts Hemmer and carries him to sickbay over her shoulder like a friggin boss and well...her secret is out because of it. Love is the death of duty and you can be afraid of letting your secrets out...but that was not more important to her duty. Big win there. And also this is the third episode in a row where Pike really has gone all chaotic good on us. Love it.
Which brings us to philosophy. My big rule when doing this is don't get preechy, in other words. If you are going to talk about philosophy and politics, especially in shows like this, avoid actual real world references like the plague. Let your audiences draw their own inferences and have the conversations on their own. Don't do what Discovery did and have your slaver antagonist talk about how awesome capitalism is...for instance. Here this parable was probably the most on the nose of the three episodes to date...but it still worked. I do not think they gave it enough time to properly breathe and get set up properly for the end but I did really like Una's end speech because the parralells are probably obvious, but did not reference a single actual thing that is going on...which gives the audience room to discuss it on their own. Very poignant ultimatley her talking about being the 'good ones'. And while I am not going to touch it with a ten foot pole I also noticed that the Illyrians basically were so desperate for Federation membership that they changed their society and suicided themselves...oops.
Now my above criticism might change later in the series because this could still pay off. Maybe the reason that Una's secret is exposed this early is that they will actually do something with it later. And maybe this episode still ties into one of my theories of where this show is going but not in the way I was going to thought. Because Starfleet could find out about it, that was teased. Starfleet might find out about this and well...decide istead of being nice about it like they were about Bashir...guess what you get kicked out of Starfleet. And this fits into my theory because I think Kirk could be the XO of the Enterprise in season 2.
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Post by mousestalker on May 19, 2022 21:20:12 GMT
Well I guess they can't all be home runs but I still did enjoy the episode and...strem of consiousness incoming I fear! So this episode tried to do two things this week and I do not think they hit either nail entirely on the head. You had the character aspects of the show and the character arc that was building and then you had the typical parable aspect which is kind of fascinating that this is a theme in each episodes plot structure that is happening and it is...interesting...because I do not think you really had each episode of classic trek do this. Some of it was just general science fictiony concept of the week, but each episode so far has had some larger message vaguely related to what is happening.
So yeah, two things to talk about it with this. It is an interesting character development and something that could provide fodder later on and its like 'wow cool'...Una is an Augment. Wow. Its a good idea to give that character a little bit of a character niggle...but, perhaps an unfair comparison but I did think of it, they did this a lot better with Bashir. So far at least. Which goes into it because there was plenty of unintentional build up to that plot point because Bashir was very smart. Very weird. Very intentionally arrogant and there was mystery there...mystery solved. I feel like that this could have been handled a lot better if this were episode 8 or 9 of the season, just move this episode later in the season and set it up give us little hints that Una is a genie....which then of course brings us to how her and La'an interacted. Now yes, this is an actual thing that can happen with...well racism...and she was infected with the light porn...but it just felt really flat to me.
However, I did really, really like M'Benga's part in this because him and Una reacted a lot better because this was perfect juxtoposition. Here you have M'Benga whose secret put the Enterprise in danger and he was willing to hide it even in a crisis situation which might have put the Enterprise in further risk. But Una...dead lifts Hemmer and carries him to sickbay over her shoulder like a friggin boss and well...her secret is out because of it. Love is the death of duty and you can be afraid of letting your secrets out...but that was not more important to her duty. Big win there. And also this is the third episode in a row where Pike really has gone all chaotic good on us. Love it.
Which brings us to philosophy. My big rule when doing this is don't get preechy, in other words. If you are going to talk about philosophy and politics, especially in shows like this, avoid actual real world references like the plague. Let your audiences draw their own inferences and have the conversations on their own. Don't do what Discovery did and have your slaver antagonist talk about how awesome capitalism is...for instance. Here this parable was probably the most on the nose of the three episodes to date...but it still worked. I do not think they gave it enough time to properly breathe and get set up properly for the end but I did really like Una's end speech because the parralells are probably obvious, but did not reference a single actual thing that is going on...which gives the audience room to discuss it on their own. Very poignant ultimatley her talking about being the 'good ones'. And while I am not going to touch it with a ten foot pole I also noticed that the Illyrians basically were so desperate for Federation membership that they changed their society and suicided themselves...oops.
Now my above criticism might change later in the series because this could still pay off. Maybe the reason that Una's secret is exposed this early is that they will actually do something with it later. And maybe this episode still ties into one of my theories of where this show is going but not in the way I was going to thought. Because Starfleet could find out about it, that was teased. Starfleet might find out about this and well...decide istead of being nice about it like they were about Bashir...guess what you get kicked out of Starfleet. And this fits into my theory because I think Kirk could be the XO of the Enterprise in season 2. I liked it. The show continues to impress. My husband enjoyed the fight. Is anyone else watching it on Paramount+? We signed up for the essentials (base) plan and the commercials are getting annoying. Is the premium plan worth it (ie no commercials)?
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Post by hoku on May 19, 2022 22:08:16 GMT
Couldn't tell, because where I live neither CBS All Access > Paramount+ nor the show itself otherwise is officially available yet, so I make due with uhm extranet services
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Post by AnDromedary on May 20, 2022 3:47:27 GMT
Is anyone else watching it on Paramount+? We signed up for the essentials (base) plan and the commercials are getting annoying. Is the premium plan worth it (ie no commercials)? I am watching it with a Paramount+ channel addon to Amazon Prime and only get one trailer for another show before an episode start (which is still very annoying, if I pay you guys $10 extra each month, just let me watch the dam episode ). So Episode 3. I enjoyed it very much again, though IMO thsi one had a few weird moments, I'll have to admit. The general idea of the episode was great. A little out there sometimes but that just adds to the TOS vibes. I thought the whole point about bigotry was very well made (agree with colfoley , that last log of Nr1 was very on the nose but hey, the "when do I no longer have to be one of the exemplary ones" line hit hard (as intended, I'm sure). As for getting Una's secret out into the open, to be very honest, I felt it was already fairly unbelievable that she would have been able to keep it secret for this long. I mean, Bashir (as far as I remember) didn't have super strength or stuff like that but she does. And as soon as it is convenient for her, she uses it here. Are you seriously gonna make me believe that in all her years of service on board starships, she never got into an equally serious situation where it might have been useful to use that. And btw, when she grabbed Hemmer, she was literally standing on a transporter pad that had just been used (so it was working). If she needed to get him to sick bay that quickly, why not just beam over there? Anyway, I get it, she mainly exposed herself to provide the cure, not to carry Hemmer but still, that whole situation could have been handled a little more elegantly. But probably the main thing I had a bit of an issue with was Dr. M'Benga's secret. This is really weird to me. He keeps his daughter in the medical transporter for god knows how long and no one notices? Don't they do maintenance over there? For that matter, does no one wonder where she is? Also, in Episode 1, it seemed Pike and M'Benga were good friends but from what I understood here, not even Pike knows about her. I don't know, it was a bot odd and also, IMO, it's kind of a big deal and shouldn't have been revealed in 3 minutes at the end of an episode that actually was about something entirely different. And then there is apparently this easy solution "oh yea, we gonna plug in the warp core and it's gonna be fine". Well, than why not do that in the first place and officially? You'd think if this is a thing, something like "medical transporter buffer stasis" would be used more often. So yea, wasn't a big fan of that plot point. Everything else was good though, so don't misunderstand me, this is criticism on a very high level.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2022 9:41:21 GMT
There's all the spoilers for Discovery in here, but if you take anything inside seriously you're an aroused man walking sideways in Bangkok. I'm sure you'll manage some context all on your own, it's king. And just remember all you haters, no matter how much you regret reading this I got a free reddit award for writing it.
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Post by masseffectfanforlife on May 20, 2022 19:31:35 GMT
I personally have some thoughts... If someone were to tell me that this was a prequel of the reboot films (the JJ-verse), I'd believe it. Heck this Enterprise would have made more sense than what we saw in reboot. But, this is the original timeline. How is this going to transition to TOS, the TOS films, TNG, the TNG films, and so on? Everything seems... overdesigned(?). It seems like they took creative liberties at the expense of continuity, in an attempt to make it more "hip." In TNG, DS9, and even Enterprise, the TOS era technology remained consistent. I'm sorry, but when I see new Trek, I see the Kelvin universe. Take The Mandalorian for example. It takes place after Return Of The Jedi, yet the only difference is the use of CGI. They didn't "update" the designs of the X-Wings to have a more modern asthetic. Everything is true to that time period.
Also, about the character La'an... If I remember correctly, in Space Seed, the Enterprise crew didn't know that Khan was a dangerous, murdering tyrant of the eugenics wars until somewhere on the middle of the Episode. Based on this video, they know who he is, name & face, right? Doesn't this mess with continuity a bit? That would mean when Enterprise finds the SS Botany Bay, Kirk would have to immediately place Khan under arrest or destroy the ship after seeing him in stasis.
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Post by AnDromedary on May 20, 2022 19:45:22 GMT
I personally have some thoughts... If someone were to tell me that this was a prequel of the reboot films (the JJ-verse), I'd believe it. Heck this Enterprise would have made more sense than what we saw in reboot. But, this is the original timeline. How is this going to transition to TOS, the TOS films, TNG, the TNG films, and so on? Everything seems... overdesigned(?). It seems like they took creative liberties at the expense of continuity, in an attempt to make it more "hip." In TNG, DS9, and even Enterprise, the TOS era technology remained consistent. I'm sorry, but when I see new Trek, I see the Kelvin universe. Take The Mandalorian for example. It takes place after Return Of The Jedi, yet the only difference is the use of CGI. They didn't "update" the designs of the X-Wings to have a more modern asthetic. Everything is true to that time period. Also, about the character La'an... If I remember correctly, in Space Seed, the Enterprise crew didn't know that Khan was a dangerous, murdering tyrant of the eugenics wars until somewhere on the middle of the Episode. Based on this video, they know who he is, name & face, right? Doesn't this mess with continuity a bit? That would mean when Enterprise finds the SS Botany Bay, Kirk would have to immediately place Khan under arrest or destroy the ship after seeing him in stasis. On your first point, I guess it's a matter of taste and what you can sort of reconcile in your imagination. I think the creators said they wanted to go for a style of what they would want TOS to look like if it were made today. Personally, I think it's a pretty good compromise they ended up with in SNW between some retro designs but flashy new visuals for everything. Cause let's face it, you are not going to make a series today that really looks like TOS looked back then. You could of course say "well then don't make a prequel" and I completely understand that point (I have been in that camp for a long while) but ultimately, this is what they wanted to do and for me at least, it kinda works. But yea, matter of taste for sure.
As for Khan, I thought so, too at first but I looked it up again and it turns out, once they get his name, the crew is very much aware of who he is (Scotty even goes so far as to say that he always had some admiration for the historic figure). So no, it's not like no one knew, they just still underestimated his ability to adapt so quickly.
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Post by colfoley on May 20, 2022 20:16:35 GMT
I personally have some thoughts... If someone were to tell me that this was a prequel of the reboot films (the JJ-verse), I'd believe it. Heck this Enterprise would have made more sense than what we saw in reboot. But, this is the original timeline. How is this going to transition to TOS, the TOS films, TNG, the TNG films, and so on? Everything seems... overdesigned(?). It seems like they took creative liberties at the expense of continuity, in an attempt to make it more "hip." In TNG, DS9, and even Enterprise, the TOS era technology remained consistent. I'm sorry, but when I see new Trek, I see the Kelvin universe. Take The Mandalorian for example. It takes place after Return Of The Jedi, yet the only difference is the use of CGI. They didn't "update" the designs of the X-Wings to have a more modern asthetic. Everything is true to that time period. Also, about the character La'an... If I remember correctly, in Space Seed, the Enterprise crew didn't know that Khan was a dangerous, murdering tyrant of the eugenics wars until somewhere on the middle of the Episode. Based on this video, they know who he is, name & face, right? Doesn't this mess with continuity a bit? That would mean when Enterprise finds the SS Botany Bay, Kirk would have to immediately place Khan under arrest or destroy the ship after seeing him in stasis. On your first point, I guess it's a matter of taste and what you can sort of reconcile in your imagination. I think the creators said they wanted to go for a style of what they would want TOS to look like if it were made today. Personally, I think it's a pretty good compromise they ended up with in SNW between some retro designs but flashy new visuals for everything. Cause let's face it, you are not going to make a series today that really looks like TOS looked back then. You could of course say "well then don't make a prequel" and I completely understand that point (I have been in that camp for a long while) but ultimately, this is what they wanted to do and for me at least, it kinda works. But yea, matter of taste for sure.
As for Khan, I thought so, too at first but I looked it up again and it turns out, once they get his name, the crew is very much aware of who he is (Scotty even goes so far as to say that he always had some admiration for the historic figure). So no, it's not like no one knew, they just still underestimated his ability to adapt so quickly.
You pretty much stole my thunder. This has been a long standing frustration in dealing with the long standing complaints to this series, namely that particular plot point, but I do not think I finally realized exactly why until thinking about dealing with the above point. They did very much know the generals about Khan and the eugenics wars and the supermen in Space Seed as that was the dramatic tension as they were trying to figure out who these people were. But as they figured it out they got more and more antsy. As far as not mentioning La'an...why would they? Though maybe something will come up to change this why would they mention it? And the debate continues over whether or not she is augmented herself...La'an...I almost bet she is but then there would be a few holes in that theory to. As for the bridge...IDK I think I am still getting used to it? I love the actual displays and the helm layout from what we have seen but the old Kirk chair is a bit of an eyesore with all that neat future tech. My favorite designs are the Soverign's and Intrepid's bridges.
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Post by masseffectfanforlife on May 20, 2022 21:54:30 GMT
If Pike's Enterprise in SNW, specifically the exterior, was a bridge between Archer's Enterprise and The Cage Enterprise, I'd believe it. It would make sense, considering the color of the hull and the nacelles. It's because this take place in the Prime timeline that makes me wonder how it will transition to the Enterprise and the design of Starfleet in general in the events of TOS. Some of the tech looks way too advanced for the time period. What's next? They can somehow reuse the dilithium crystals? As Scotty said in the Voyage Home, "we can't even do that in the 23rd century." Look, I'm not a major TOS expert, I grew up with the movies based on TOS, but I don't want to get the impression that they're slightly rebooting/retconning this universe.
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Post by colfoley on May 23, 2022 1:06:56 GMT
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Post by colfoley on May 26, 2022 11:21:25 GMT
What. An. Episode. Ugh I was recently reading through a lot of my early Discovery stuff and Disco got off to a pretty strong start so hopefully history don't repeat but man this episode was just pure terrific awesome. Just A+ just had me from go and didn't let go to the final moment. And as SNWs first big episode that didn't really have an ethical quandry. More a threat of the week in lieu of Balance of Terror rather then Measure of a Man. First previously on: Interesting win here and I am surprised given the nature of the show we have gotten one this early but it was a win because of what it focused on...instead of major plot drama we just got a pure reminder of where the characters have been up to now. And the rest of the episode reflected this mind set and it felt like the first three episodes have been set up and now we have this ep largely deepening these character arcs. Its not perfect since Una and M'Benga didn't get a lot to do but even their little bits showed a lot of significant character and again Nurse Chapel got major development and endearment points though. But pretty much the rest of the cast all feels like they got more to do and more explanation for them and starting to actually deepen and explore their stuff. Rememberance Day: Theme of the week here and it was interesting, not exactly a canon break but it is important that SNWs is so far not shying away from deepending Star Trek lore with new developments and this became a huge through thread for the episode. The sacrifices that the crew makes on a day to day basis. The dangerous of exploring space. TOS didn't do a good job with the Red Shirt phenmnon and hell Trek in general rarely truly focused on the effect the junior officers death had on the main crew...but this was the through thread. From the BLUE shirt sacrificing himself for Kyle to the brief ethical dilema over Una's plasma from the camera just pausing every now and then to remind us of the sacrifices the crew was making. Perfecting. The Bridge Design: Given this came up recently in the complaint department I think this is the first ep to really feature the bridge and looking in on it. And I couldn't help but notice yes the panelling and displays look nice and sleek but the actual controls on the science station are analog. Huh...weird. Of course I suppose in full fairness the helm controls may not be yet...gonna have to look. Pike: Ah Pike. Best Captain ever. The man can speechify. He can be inspiring. He encourages others to greatness. He knows how to think and deal with tactical situations (though it was getting weird the 'space wants to kill us' 'good lets let it!). But again the most endearing part of his character and the bit that relates to the top is just how much he cares. This is pretty much the big part of his character arc, his defining moment all the way back from the Cage and it has become the bedrock on which his character stands. A man of principle but one who cares deeply for his crew. A true father to his men. His reaction to hearing Uhurha and Hemmer surviving was just pure touching. La'an: La'an MVP. She had a beautiful little mini character arc in this ep and is very quickly becoming maybe my favorite SF security/ tactical officer...of course the big part of that is PIKE ACTUALLY LISTENS TO HER! No hesitation really just 'oh ok you are hired to protect the ship you know what you are doing.' Which does bring me to the first big bit from her character arc in this ep. She goes very bigoted on the Gorn for a big second here and well when what's his face did it in BoT Kirk reamed him in front of the Bridge crew...now this is not precisely a bad thing from a philosophical perspective given the context of that scene back then...but Pike excercises perfect command respect when he does not snap her head off in front of others but listens and considers. Man of principle yes and he probably is quite the individualist but he is willing to listen to his officers and consider their advice even when they are being a little compromised. And I expected him to then ream her in private...kind of like he did with Saru honestly...but instead he asks if she is OK and proceeds to give her advice which she then follows throughout the episode. Plus that look between the two later. Again. Perfect. Based on shit I am going through at work my management team could learn a lot from Pike and La'an. Uhurha and Hemmer: So their interaction from the first episode comes back in a surprising way. Hemmer who establishes himself as someone who does not like relying on people...has to rely on someone. given the context this makes the previous interaction into a character flaw, perfectly understandable yet it is also surprising they went in this direction here. Of course though this is not a diss against the disabled but again their current situation made it clear he needed someone to help...curious to see if this gets development later. One complaint- Something I did also kind of notice in the battle with the Shepards but decided not to bring it up then...but it comes up here. Once more Starfleet shows a huge reliance on shields and not returning fire unless under extreme pressure. And sure there was some extenuating circumstances here but Pike could have easily ordered some return/ covering fire...maybe he would have gotten lucky. I think the weapons were online at that point still. Easily could have written ways around it instead of making SF look like putzes. Tactics vs tactics: My big complaint from the battle of the Sheperds is that this was another case of this random alien threat just completly outstrips the Federation flagship in firepower or tech. Here though the Gorn is never mentioned as being technically or outguns the Enterprise. They use superior tactics to get a surprise attack on the Enterprise at first and presses that advantage home. Pike comes up with counter tactics which are then countered by the Gorn. An assist by La'an here and there and it escelates from there. Bonus points from a long term perspective, this is just my feeling but this could be invalidated...but another nod to BoT that I basically think the Enterprise presented a war. Yes the Gorn thinks they could be destroyed which could complicate things but the Enterprise took three of their ships with them and really held the line. Either way though as Pike points out to La'an, now they know more of their enemy so they will be better prepard to deal with them next time...if there is a next time...sort of . Preserving canon: Now there is some smacking here of some not being enslaved to canon and making changes if they make sense BUT on the flip side they are still moving forward with some care. The Gorn aren't ever seen on film. There is no communication with them. So this was not First Contact so the canon interpretation from Arena is still mostly preservered here. Of course we will see if this stays true in future eps and seasons, we have seen something that some have claimed could be a baby Gorn...and La'an says 'yeah lots of people seen the Gorn they just get eaten usually' but the attempt of this series to try and preserve continuity is...well a surprise, but a weclome one. Glory shots of the Enterprise: Almost forgott his...agian...since I meant to mention it last week to but the Enterprise is gradually getting more and more love. Wasn't a real big fan of the Constitution back in the day always more of a fan of the Soverign or Intreprid from a general design view point...but man this Constitituion is getting a lot of love. And the modern CG and camera work is getting some good nods here. The sequence where the Enterprise was closing in on the gorn ship and then drops the torp on them was gorgeous from the general manuvering to the zoom in on the tube. Though as an aside they also weren't afraid to take a bit of a leaf from BSG style and include visual displays which represented the battle. Again terrific episode, by far the best of the series so far. Can't wait now. I'm invested. Hope they can keep this up.
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Post by hoku on May 26, 2022 19:11:09 GMT
4 out of 4. Despite knowing the the ship and most if not all main characters survive the episode - it was a thrilling adventure. the formula of character spotlight of the week + a story/theme of the week just works really well. THAT makes you interested and invested in the characters: They did that in 4 episodes and other couldn't do it in 2 or even 4 seasons mostly irrelevant of the overall setting/design and all.
So far there is no new (La'an, Ortegas, Hemmler) barely known (Chapel, MBenga, Una) or classic (Uhura, Spock, Pike) character I don't like. I would love to have a beer/coffee/drink with all of them. Only ENT and DS9's characters were similiar in that way for me.
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Post by colfoley on May 26, 2022 20:34:15 GMT
The trend continues. Now I didn't comment on this in the review because A. I was getting tired and B. I wasn't sure if this is worth commenting on...but I have decided that SNWs is actually doing something wonderfully meta on it. And as hoku said this whole idea that we the audience know they will make it which does rob some of the tension...but the thing is. So here is the thing the audience knows that the Enterprise and the crew will survive the events of the episode but the thing is...Pike kind of knows it to.
Which sets up an interesting subtext because while his decisions could get most of his crew killed when he is talking about how the Enterprise will make it he is pretty sure that the Enterprise will make it because he knows he has ten more years of life. Which puts Pike in the exact same position as the audience. Its a fascinating thought experiment and while SNWs wasn't confirmed when they revealed his fate on Boreth this really makes it look intententional. Tactics vs tactics I know I brought this up already but I do not think I can underscore just how unique this is...especially since we never saw any scenes from the perspective of the Gorn even. But its rare enough that we get Starfleet officers employing actual battle tactics which don't amount to technobabble or word salad like 'just target x,y,z...do this random manuever we have no context of'. But usually enemy vessels are never seen utilizing tactics either. Usually the extent of enemy tacts we see is just firing full weapons into a ship...or I guess occasionally the cloak...decloak...fire...cloak stuff.
Its so rare that I am quite confident that we have only seen the enemy use actual tactics to counter our heroes maybe only twice throughout Trek. Balance of Terror and Wrath of Khan. That is pretty much it.
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Post by mousestalker on May 27, 2022 0:57:34 GMT
As of episode 4, Captain Pike is now my favourite Starfleet Captain.
That is all.
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Post by colfoley on May 27, 2022 1:25:18 GMT
As of episode 4, Captain Pike is now my favourite Starfleet Captain. That is all. Forget that after four episodes of this and his appearance in Disco season 2 he has finally knocked off Tom Paris as my favorite Star Trek character. Which my love of Tom goes all the way back to 'hot. plain. tomato. soup.'
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Post by colfoley on May 27, 2022 1:59:34 GMT
If you will forgive me more praise incoming and I was inspired by the Ups and downs vid but this really doesen't have anything to do with that per se... Starfleet perfesionalism. So I like Discovery and I often do not mind the more emotional bits in Discovery because that can be writing and it is important to show that even military officers can be emotional and break down and crack so that all works. Sort of. But I guess the big problem is it happens too often in Disco and is probably the biggest disconnect between Nu Trek and old Trek...I'm serious. Is this lack of professionalism in the crew. It always hits well when they do it but the trouble is...well no it didn't hit well when Detmer just went BSOD in season 3...but it just is one of those things that sort of takes you out of the experience.
But in Strange New Worlds probably reflects how actual Starfleet officers, military officers, would react in an actual crisis. La'an is obviously emotionally compromised up the wazoo in this episode. She tries to ignore it...but isn't always successful. But instead of the camera just lingering and having an over drawn out scene...well we don't have time for that. La'an, the characters around her, and the camera does not pause and turns this into a scene of melodrama. Instead she pushes through and tries to do the old 'ignore and overide thing' pushing her feelings to the side and focusing the job. Yes, the trauma is still there, but she is still working through that pain.
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Post by AnDromedary on May 27, 2022 3:01:43 GMT
Yup, another really good episode. I pretty much liked all the different character arcs and dam, they crammed a lot of that into what was basically a space battle episode. Pretty much perfectly executed. My favorite was that last little show with Una an M'Benga with the blood transfusion. Discovery would have had someone a speech about it, here it's one look and that's enough. Good to see a little subtlety again here. Also want to second colfoley's last point here about professionalism. It is really good to see that back after both Disco and Picard. Point of interest: Enterprise looked really beaten up at the end of the episode. I wonder if/how this will be addressed next week. I did like it when in ENT the NX01 was beaten up ofter the episode Minefield and they dealt with it in the next episode, where they had to find a repair station to get the ship back together on the frontier and that lead into a whole other adventure. I hope they'll do something like that here as well. Anyway, SNW just keeps knocking them out of the park, that's all I can say, really.
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Post by colfoley on May 28, 2022 22:09:10 GMT
Best Captain with the best speeches.
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Post by mousestalker on May 30, 2022 13:54:10 GMT
With the Orville kicking off Season three in a couple of days, we're going to have two decent Star Trek series run simultaneously. This is shaping up to be a good summer for Trek fans!
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2022 20:06:41 GMT
With the Orville kicking off Season three in a couple of days, we're going to have two decent Star Trek series run simultaneously. This is shaping up to be a good summer for Trek fans! Oh wow, didn't realize it was that soon. That is awesome.
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Post by colfoley on May 30, 2022 22:05:16 GMT
I just realized, maybe a small point to consider for anyone not in the States. But its Memorial Day weekend here. Which means the Trek episode which just aired...about remembering those who have fallen in the name of exploration, takes on an entirely new meaning. Well played Paramount.
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Post by AnDromedary on May 31, 2022 18:38:39 GMT
I just realized, maybe a small point to consider for anyone not in the States. But its Memorial Day weekend here. Which means the Trek episode which just aired...about remembering those who have fallen in the name of exploration, takes on an entirely new meaning. Well played Paramount. Yea, I was actually wondering if they timed it like that on purpose when I was watching it.
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