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Post by smilesja on Oct 13, 2017 4:07:11 GMT
I think he confused your joke for being serious... I was being partially serious. Showing nudity doesn't necessarily make something mature. In fact, sometimes it can be immature, with Game of Thrones, part of the problem I have with the show sometimes is that they show excess nudity for no other reason than just "because we want breasts." I often wonder if D and D employed 14-year-olds to scenes. Origins and DA2 did not have nudity and they were definitely mature games.
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midnight tea
Twitter Guru
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 13, 2017 4:11:51 GMT
I think he confused your joke for being serious... I was being serious. Showing nudity doesn't necessarily make something mature. In fact, sometimes it can be immature, with Game of Thrones, part of the problem I have with the show sometimes is that they show excess nudity for no other reason than just "because we want breasts." I often wonder if D and D employed 14-year-olds to scenes. Origins and DA2 did not have nudity and they were definitely mature games. I meant that he misunderstood your sarcasm. Also - you don't have to tell me about excess nudity and explicit content when I've spent my youth reading all kinds of manga and watching anime, some of questionable quality . I'm not oversensitive to it as much as desensitized and don't see the inclusion of supposedly "dark" or "adult" themes as particularly dark or mature because of that. I mostly just roll my eyes at it.
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Post by cloud9 on Oct 13, 2017 4:12:22 GMT
Eww....Jaal.....gross.... Even if you didn't like Jaal's appearance, his sex scene as well as Cora's and PeeBee's went into just as much detail as the Witcher ones you love. The only sad thing about it it took them 5 years to make it happen, and did not put that kind of sexual content on the trilogy.
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Post by smilesja on Oct 13, 2017 4:13:43 GMT
I was being serious. Showing nudity doesn't necessarily make something mature. In fact, sometimes it can be immature, with Game of Thrones, part of the problem I have with the show sometimes is that they show excess nudity for no other reason than just "because we want breasts." I often wonder if D and D employed 14-year-olds to scenes. Origins and DA2 did not have nudity and they were definitely mature games. I meant that he misunderstood your sarcasm. Also - you don't have to tell me about excess nudity and explicit content when I've spent my youth reading all kinds of manga and watching anime, some of questionable quality . I'm not oversensitive to it as much as desensitized and don't see the inclusion of supposedly "dark" or "adult" themes as particularly dark or mature because of that. I mostly just roll my eyes at it. There was some sarcasm there too.
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Post by majesticjazz on Oct 13, 2017 4:18:29 GMT
And how is this relevant? Oh its relevant. In a minor way however.
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krighaur
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by krighaur on Oct 13, 2017 8:31:26 GMT
I will not debates with you, because as soon as someone does not agree with you he/she is an idiot/fanatic/biofan/andotherkindwords. What I mean, is that if you, and others like you, were not so accusing, and so dismissing, we could have serious discussions. These discussions could also be about the flaws we find in Bioware games. But in spite you claim that you like Bioware games (which sound as false as a kid taken with his hands in the jam and saying it's not me) you only try to convince others that Bioware games are full of flaws. So stay with your opinion, I stay with mine ... I am a bit more realistic than you, because I am in a forum where you are supposed to have more positive thoughts about the game than negatives thought, and that's not fanatical loyalty, only coherent way of thinking. Soo, basically. "My opinion is better tha yours because I will use arbitrary words like "realistic" but avoid any sort of rational discussion? Right. I've been asking people like you and midnighttea to address my counter arguments logically since one of the first pages of this thread. You have resorted to intentionally misrepresenting anything I've said. Feigning ignorance. And making ridiculous strawmen. When I point that out, you run. Sorry if this does not convince anyone. Like I said, flaw exist in the game. Denying this does not help it in any way. If the game is good enough, it doesnt need you to defend it. If it can be better, then let it be criticized. Dont call yourself a fan if you can't do this. Read the second sentence of the second paragraph of my post, it invalidates your main argument. I never said games have no flaw, I only said it's people like you who prevent serious discussion. But perhaps you need a youtube to understand my message ... sorry I have none, just read
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Post by krighaur on Oct 13, 2017 8:46:22 GMT
You are also very strong at reading only part of sentences and at twisting words from others. I said this forum should have MORE positive thoughts than negatives ones. I never wrote that there should be only praise of Bioware. I said that it's your constant bashing that prevents serious discussions about Bioware. Your argument is flawed. 1) YOU believe and YOU want this place to be a hive of positive Bioware discussion, but that doesnt mean that is the true intent of this place. Ask SofaJockey, while I am sure he enjoys positive discussion, he never mandated that it should be mostly positive. There can be neutral/negative discussion, as long as it is respectful. 2) You equate negative discussion with bashing. So I am showing my frustration with Bioware because I believe they are changing the tone of their games to adopt a more lighter feel....so now I am bashing? Did it ever occur to you that I have the right to express my thoughts in their past, present, and future games in the same manner you do? So only talking positively and continuously praising Bioware is the ONLY way to have serious discussion? So me being upset about the lighter tone means I am bashing? Being upset about not being able to go renegade with Ryder and IQ is bashing? Being annoyed by the DAI fetch quest is bashing? Disliking the zoomed out over the shoulder camera for conversations is bashing? You say that you never said this place has to be only positive discussion and yet in the very next sentence you imply that me posting my concerns/gripes with the games are "bashing" and preventing this place from having serious discussion. Ok, got it. I joke around when I call this place an echo chamber to push a few buttons. But reading your comments really suggest that there are a few who really does want this place to be an echo chamber of positive Bioware thought, ideas, and discussion. Learn a bit about nuances : - This place should have more positive thoughts, than negative ones DOESN'T MEAN this place must be an echo chamber - Being annoyed by something DOESN't MEAN constantly bringing this thing in the discussion - Saying your constant bashing prevents serious discussions DOESN'T MEAN serious discussions must always be positive
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Post by Superhik on Oct 13, 2017 9:22:13 GMT
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Post by Zatche on Oct 13, 2017 12:25:47 GMT
But I won't advocate for them, because I find it a rather shallow benefit. And I find any argument that they're needed to make the game "mature" rather tiresome. Does anyone ever actually make the argument that such scenes are "needed" for that? I remember some threads in the old BSN before DAI came out in which that was the jist.
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Post by Zatche on Oct 13, 2017 12:32:29 GMT
Personally, I'll admit that I enjoy some scenes. Cora, for example, had the slow teasing reveal that worked better than the straight up humping of the Witcher 3. But I won't advocate for them, because I find it a rather shallow benefit. And I find any argument that they're needed to make the game "mature" rather tiresome. What about roleplay, and the concept of player choice? In reference to brothels? There are lots of ways for devs to let us make choices about our characters. Having sex with prostitutes or not isn't a choice I find particularly interesting. When I made the choice to in DAO, it was more for a laugh than to define my character.
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Post by majesticjazz on Oct 13, 2017 12:35:07 GMT
Your argument is flawed. 1) YOU believe and YOU want this place to be a hive of positive Bioware discussion, but that doesnt mean that is the true intent of this place. Ask SofaJockey, while I am sure he enjoys positive discussion, he never mandated that it should be mostly positive. There can be neutral/negative discussion, as long as it is respectful. 2) You equate negative discussion with bashing. So I am showing my frustration with Bioware because I believe they are changing the tone of their games to adopt a more lighter feel....so now I am bashing? Did it ever occur to you that I have the right to express my thoughts in their past, present, and future games in the same manner you do? So only talking positively and continuously praising Bioware is the ONLY way to have serious discussion? So me being upset about the lighter tone means I am bashing? Being upset about not being able to go renegade with Ryder and IQ is bashing? Being annoyed by the DAI fetch quest is bashing? Disliking the zoomed out over the shoulder camera for conversations is bashing? You say that you never said this place has to be only positive discussion and yet in the very next sentence you imply that me posting my concerns/gripes with the games are "bashing" and preventing this place from having serious discussion. Ok, got it. I joke around when I call this place an echo chamber to push a few buttons. But reading your comments really suggest that there are a few who really does want this place to be an echo chamber of positive Bioware thought, ideas, and discussion. Learn a bit about nuances : - This place should have more positive thoughts, than negative ones DOESN'T MEAN this place must be an echo chamber - Being annoyed by something DOESN't MEAN constantly bringing this thing in the discussion - Saying your constant bashing prevents serious discussions DOESN'T MEAN serious discussions must always be positive And yet you still have not provided any justification for why a forum should be feature more positive discussion than negative. Going by the raw definition of a forum: www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forum1 a :the marketplace or public place of an ancient Roman city forming the center of judicial and public business b :a public meeting place for open discussion The club provides a forum for people interested in local history. c :a medium (such as a newspaper or online service) of open discussion or expression of ideas2 :a judicial body or assembly :court 3 a :a public meeting or lecture involving audience discussion The town has scheduled a public forum to discuss the proposal. b :a program (as on radio or television) involving discussion of a problem usually by several authorities ----------------- Open discussion means a wide variety of perspectives and ideas. It could ne positive, negative or neutral. In this case, as long as the discussion is about Dragon Age, then the forum is serving its purpose. YOU may want this place to be some defacto Bioware fan club and yes, many here including myself are fans to a certain extend; but that isnt what this place is or is supposed to be. So if I want to create threads or replies that are really pessimistic and critical of Bioware then so be it. In an open forum not all input would be specified to what YOU want. If I make a thread titled, "Dragon Age 4 will be a failure...." and in the body I explain point by point of why I think so, then the forum is serving its purpose in the same way another thread titled, "Dragon Age 4 will blow everyone away and become the best Bioware game to date" does. Both of them are opening up the floor for people to debate, agree/disagree, and offer their opinions and side of the story. If you feel annoyed or irked by a particular topic, nobody is forcing you to participate in the discussion, just ignore it and move to a thread where tje thoughts align more with your own. So no, positive discussion SHOULD NOT be the focus nor should negative discussion. As long as there is respectful discussion that is about Dragon Age/Bioware, thats all that matters.
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Post by Walter Black on Oct 13, 2017 14:42:54 GMT
At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if in Minrathous we hear of a massive Roman-esque orgy party that we can't go to. Later, ambient NPC dialogue reveal the whole thing was a bust; no one attractive showed up, bad wine made it difficult to perform, a few unwanted pregnancies, and everyone got STDs. All so that the writers could say "aren't you glad we didn't show all that?"
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 13, 2017 15:02:19 GMT
Man, screw brothels. I want bustling taverns where I can have bar fights, card games and/or woo NPC’s.
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Post by smilesja on Oct 13, 2017 15:34:22 GMT
And how is this relevant? Oh its relevant. In a minor way however. Then explain.
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Post by smilesja on Oct 13, 2017 15:34:52 GMT
Man, screw brothels. I want bustling taverns where I can have bar fights, card games and/or woo NPC’s. That is preferable.
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Post by naughtynomad on Oct 13, 2017 16:24:26 GMT
Man, screw brothels. I want bustling taverns where I can have bar fights, card games and/or woo NPC’s. Why should you have to choose between the two? DAO and DA2 had both.
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 13, 2017 17:11:01 GMT
Man, screw brothels. I want bustling taverns where I can have bar fights, card games and/or woo NPC’s. Why should you have to choose between the two? DAO and DA2 had both. I’ll take what I can get honestly. I don’t care one way or the other so long as it’s a gathering place for NPC’s I can interact with.
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Post by majesticjazz on Oct 13, 2017 22:35:29 GMT
Oh its relevant. In a minor way however. okay I'll bite. How is that video relevant to what the OP was talking about as in brothels in DA games for RP purposes; adds or distracts to the atmosphere or what Mark Darrah's "nah". Cause it looks like you've got some political statement to make with it. So...spit it out for me please in what minor way is it relevant? I have my theory that connects that video with no brothels in DA4.
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Post by majesticjazz on Oct 13, 2017 23:08:20 GMT
Research Sam Maggs
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Post by shechinah on Oct 13, 2017 23:11:21 GMT
So you want dustyelf to build your theory? Or is this another "guess my argument"?
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Post by smilesja on Oct 13, 2017 23:11:54 GMT
So you want dustyelf to build your theory? Or is this another "guess my argument"? Likely the latter.
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midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 13, 2017 23:38:55 GMT
Oh, I get it. Some folks are trying to single out another BW dev to demonize in case they think they find more fuel to peddle their "SJWs are ruining gaming/Bioware!" theory. God, this is so pathetic. And just plain insidious.
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Post by Gwydden on Oct 14, 2017 0:39:09 GMT
Oh, I get it. Some folks are trying to single out another BW dev to demonize in case they think they find more fuel to peddle their "SJWs are ruining gaming/Bioware!" theory. God, this is so pathetic. And just plain insidious. Come on, now, they're just doing their civic duty!
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 14, 2017 1:23:39 GMT
So you want dustyelf to build your theory? Or is this another "guess my argument"? It's more like the playbook I'd rather be Mordin Solus used to run here. When you know that your real position will be faced with contemptuous dismissal -- such as with IrbMS's quasi-Gamergater positions on social issues -- sometimes your best move is to avoid explicitly posting it.
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midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 14, 2017 1:32:12 GMT
So you want dustyelf to build your theory? Or is this another "guess my argument"? It's more like the playbook I'd rather be Mordin Solus used to run here. When you know that your real position will be faced with contemptuous dismissal -- such as with IrbMS's quasi-Gamergater positions on social issues -- sometimes your best move is to avoid explicitly posting it. But that's sort of what gets me: the thought that this is subtle ... when it's about as subtle as tiptoeing around the issue in cement shoes.
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