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Post by Gandalf the Fabulous on Nov 18, 2017 19:11:34 GMT
Sometimes gamers can be quick to anger but in this case I am surprised it took them this long to revolt against loot boxes, seriously this has been building for years and while it wasn't so much of a problem in free to play games it started to get far more insidious when they started to get implemented in full retail $60 games (you can thank Mass Effect 3 for that a game released in 2012 making EA the first to adopt Loot Boxes in full retail games), from there EA and other companies kept pushing the limits of what they could get away with with a lot of gamers being quite slow to catch on even defending the practice until it reached tipping point with Star Wars Battlefront 2, personally I think it is more disappointing that it took gamers this long to finally take a stand against it as it was a shitty practice that was only going to get worse way back when it was released in Mass Effect 2. While it is true that there are other companies that are just as bad and deserve the same sort of criticism there is no denying that EA was always the company at the forefront of this and it is only natural that they are going to take the most flak for it. As for this effecting the success of Anthem if Anthem is a good game that does not fall prey to the shitty practices that the game looks like it has been specifically engineered for then I am sure it has nothing to worry about, but at this point nobody trusts EA to not fuck it up and to be honest I don't see why anyone should. I am pretty sure FIFA had their microtransaction system before Mass Effect 3. A small technicality but I think FIFA had it's microtransactions and "card packs" and the game mode they were tied to released in a free update, Mass Effect 3 marks the first full retail product to ship with microtransactions and lootboxes as part of the full retail product, small distinction I know and still pretty shitty regardless but that is just how it is reported. That said doesn't really matter if it was FIFA or Mass Effect 3 that came first, both are EA making them the first to adopt lootboxes in full retail $60 products
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 18, 2017 19:41:30 GMT
Can we calm down the inflammatory supposition of what other posters may believe or be motivated by, please. By all means, share your own perspectives. Well what I say is harsh but not attacking anyone or offending anyone. Bottom line is that after seeing how MEA was affected by internet backlash, a lot of core Bioware fans seems suspicious/worrisome about how this could happen again with Anthem and even DA4 dowm the road. My argument is that it is because of the actions of EA that is causing this....not the fans and to call this a mob behavior is to completely ignore what this "mob" is so upset about....which is EA's business strategy. So instead of questioning EA, some people just point the fingers at the fans. What you say is a gross presumption, more than anything else. After all, when we are all fully innocent then we can stop pointing fingers then. When you have to notice how your peers act constantly over the past decade, when you have to pay attention to trends and even moreso to the motivations and machinations of publishers to their products to judge them impartially...i'm sorry but the problem is not just EA's business strategy, it's this personal demagoguery with a "me too" attitude most people have. Sadly I think my prediction is almost a lock for anything some companies do, even if they do something good. Id hope we can do better.
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Post by Amirit on Nov 18, 2017 20:52:41 GMT
If you don’t like the video, fine, I only put it up because it notes that Anthem wasn’t nominated for most anticipated game of 2018 and speculates if the Battlefront backlash may have an impact. Seemed topical. Are you really that surprised people aren't looking forward to Anthem? After everything we have heard with the game going for a Destiny like model combined with EA's reputation for microtransactions and how this game looks like it was made specifically with those systems in mind do you really blame people for not putting this game on their most anticipated list? They (in the video) are surprised, and for a reason (that they explained): on E3 Anthem dominated the show, practically wiped out all competitors. It was huge, it was beautiful. To NOT see THAT game now in the list of the "most unanticipated games" is quite shocking and (by the words of those guys from video) demonstrates trusting issues from people who nominate games to EA in general.
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 18, 2017 20:52:56 GMT
If you don’t like the video, fine, I only put it up because it notes that Anthem wasn’t nominated for most anticipated game of 2018 and speculates if the Battlefront backlash may have an impact. Seemed topical. Are you really that surprised people aren't looking forward to Anthem? After everything we have heard with the game going for a Destiny like model combined with EA's reputation for microtransactions and how this game looks like it was made specifically with those systems in mind do you really blame people for not putting this game on their most anticipated list? I only note that it’s a change from the very positive reception it got upon reveal.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 18, 2017 20:56:16 GMT
It not about profit, its about making sure the one game is profitable. Not sure what you mean here, but it was certainly claimed that do to rising costs developers *need* to use MT in order to make a profit, something which I'm fairly certain is an outright lie in most cases. (unless it's a game that simply doesn't sell well, but that's another issue) I first read the linked article a little too quickly. I should have waited until I returned so my comment was out of place. What I was trying to say is that EA won't try and balance out the games that weren't that successful with the really profitable one so both games look like a success. So FIFA won't save Andromeda from being considered being a disappointment.
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 18, 2017 20:56:52 GMT
If you don’t like the video, fine, I only put it up because it notes that Anthem wasn’t nominated for most anticipated game of 2018 and speculates if the Battlefront backlash may have an impact. Seemed topical. Are you really that surprised people aren't looking forward to Anthem? After everything we have heard with the game going for a Destiny like model combined with EA's reputation for microtransactions and how this game looks like it was made specifically with those systems in mind do you really blame people for not putting this game on their most anticipated list? -(_ANTHEM_)-
Personally, DAI was my immunization shot. Thus, I tempered my ME:A expectations quite well. With the above two games under my belt, it was no surprise to me that the intro of Anthem stirred nothing. Especially so, after reading the "game-as-a-service" comment. That statement made me super cautious.
EA's SWBF2 shitstorm gave me new expectations with Bio's new IP. ... to something like MT Central. Add excessive grinding, randomized loot box content and game progression tied to advancement as a core design (my belief). However, after EA/DICE fiasco, I believe BIO is now scrambling to soften the original game design impact to something tolerable. Edmonton really needs to hit this out of the park.
As to the list of the most anticipated game(s) for 2018, Anthem's omission is unsurprising. Hell, if their sports titles also suffer. I won't shed a tear.
Hmpf! I wonder if EA's CFO is still dancing over their projected online revenue stream(s) and EA's stock price taking a slight dive.
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Post by Gandalf the Fabulous on Nov 18, 2017 21:23:12 GMT
Are you really that surprised people aren't looking forward to Anthem? After everything we have heard with the game going for a Destiny like model combined with EA's reputation for microtransactions and how this game looks like it was made specifically with those systems in mind do you really blame people for not putting this game on their most anticipated list? I only note that it’s a change from the very positive reception it got upon reveal. The initial reveal certainly looked impressive however with so many games having sold false impressions before it people are starting to catch on, I think the hype that such a trailer would have inspired a couple of years ago has been replaced with a degree of healthy skepticism and doubly so with their comments concerning how they want to mirror Destiny and EA's reputation for anti-consumer practices. I don't think such trailers are enough to get people excited for a game anymore.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 18, 2017 21:39:39 GMT
Well what I say is harsh but not attacking anyone or offending anyone. Bottom line is that after seeing how MEA was affected by internet backlash, a lot of core Bioware fans seems suspicious/worrisome about how this could happen again with Anthem and even DA4 dowm the road. My argument is that it is because of the actions of EA that is causing this....not the fans and to call this a mob behavior is to completely ignore what this "mob" is so upset about....which is EA's business strategy. So instead of questioning EA, some people just point the fingers at the fans. What you say is a gross presumption, more than anything else. After all, when we are all fully innocent then we can stop pointing fingers then. When you have to notice how your peers act constantly over the past decade, when you have to pay attention to trends and even moreso to the motivations and machinations of publishers to their products to judge them impartially...i'm sorry but the problem is not just EA's business strategy, it's this personal demagoguery with a "me too" attitude most people have. Sadly I think my prediction is almost a lock for anything some companies do, even if they do something good. Id hope we can do better. So there you have it. When people speak up against business practices, it is the fault of the consumers. So I guess we are being too selfish and just accept anything and everything a corporation dishes out. We must all remain silent and subservient to our billionaire superiors. EA is doing good, but we are too "me to" to see that. /s
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Post by Amirit on Nov 18, 2017 21:42:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 21:42:04 GMT
Are you really that surprised people aren't looking forward to Anthem? After everything we have heard with the game going for a Destiny like model combined with EA's reputation for microtransactions and how this game looks like it was made specifically with those systems in mind do you really blame people for not putting this game on their most anticipated list? I only note that it’s a change from the very positive reception it got upon reveal. Exactly. During the reveal, there was pretty much anticipation it will be like Destiny, and there was no shortage of excitement. Now, suddenly, it's not worth mentioning? What's there coming out in 2018 that is so mind-bogglingly good and does not have the same practices? Are we expecting a AAA SP game of incredible magnificence from a developer I have no idea about?
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Nov 18, 2017 21:43:33 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
There was an article in the WSJ (Wall Street Journal) that urged Disney to buy EA.
Maybe now is the time for Disney to act and save their family oriented business. Certainly, a MT heavy Star Wars game is not kid friendly and can ruin that so "clean" image Disney wants to propagate. (🌸=◡=)
???? You don't think it was, ultimately, Disney who was behind the push for more monetization? It might have been indirect, i.e., the license fee was so outrageously high, EA had to do something to recoup, but I think it's more likely Disney wanted a slice of the monetization money as well and had something in the licence contract requiring recurring revenue. Given Disney's track record, it seems much more likely that both EA and Disney had their grubby hands in this. A lot of people are reading the Disney to EA call as a scolding, but I read it more as, "Well, we tried, but the natives are making more of a stink than we thought, so let's pull it for now and regroup, try again later." Compared to Disney, EA is a casul when it comes to squeezing money out of fans.
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 18, 2017 23:18:37 GMT
We're taking a little pause while I sort out some posters...
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 18, 2017 23:38:14 GMT
Ok, that's a bit tidier...
Re-opening the thread.
If you want to make a point, there's no need to spam it. And let's not get into fights with other posters, please.
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 19, 2017 0:35:10 GMT
I only note that it’s a change from the very positive reception it got upon reveal. Exactly. During the reveal, there was pretty much anticipation it will be like Destiny, and there was no shortage of excitement. Now, suddenly, it's not worth mentioning? What's there coming out in 2018 that is so mind-bogglingly good and does not have the same practices? Are we expecting a AAA SP game of incredible magnificence from a developer I have no idea about? -(_ANTHEM_)-
Originally, the fact that Bio said we can play solo was interesting. Now? My attitude is "how are they going to screw me?".
The more Bio will stay silent on the solo mechanic the more I will feel it will be a grind fest going nowhere real fast. My best course of action is to wait after Anthem game launch.
Perhaps, I will be pleasantly surprised.... perhaps.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 19, 2017 3:25:58 GMT
www.thewolfhall.com/ea-and-star-wars-battlefront-ii/I wonder how all this may or may not affect how EA approaches Anthem.... IMO, Anthem now has a big red target on its back and for good reason. Whatever MT or lootbox strategy they have with Anthem, I am sure they (to include Bioware) are paying close attention and is probably (hopefully) refining it. Again, we can all thank the outrage or "mob behaviour" for this. Sometimes you just need a smack to the back of the head to make things clear and I am sure EA is feeling that pain in the back of their head now.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Nov 19, 2017 6:35:09 GMT
It's mostly because of the punditry involved, kind of baseless speculation that we do. I have to admit I am not a fan of that content from youtube it just leads to misinformation and rumore now a days. Sorry man. Yes, and also feels like the campaign against Anthem is already brewing on the Internetia. Honestly, at this point I am finding it hard to believe that there is no foul play. I am a pretty firm skeptic, I don't believe many official stories, but good grief. This is called backlash. It is deserved, it is not surprising, and it will affect everything under EA's umbrella whether you feel it is deserved or no. Settle down.
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 19, 2017 6:44:33 GMT
That does not surprise me. And if that's lost that is a lot of money going with it due to EA'S own mistakes here.
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 19, 2017 10:19:38 GMT
We're taking a little pause while I sort out some posters... While people call for more cowbell, I have a fever - and the only prescription is MORE ELEVATOR MUZAK!
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 19, 2017 11:12:18 GMT
The intangible factor here is the extent to which the sentiment: 'Fuck EA'Prevents purchase of any game under the EA banner (for some people), irrespective of the economy in that specific game. Or whether such publisher antagonism is internet noise that has limited impact on sales? The buzz around Anthem at E3 was pretty good, actually surprisingly good because I thought the lack of information really didn't merit it. Can we foresee any future Anthem marketing to be accompanied (in comments) by an increasingly long list of sticks that can be used to beat the game/BioWare/EA with? - Fuck EA
- Where are the lootboxes?
- Will 'my face hurt'?
- SJWs gone mad
- Will this have a Red/Blue/Green ending?
I like to judge each game on its merits, but there are plenty of examples of games that tanked, not because the game was bad, but because the mood of the public was tired of the publisher/studio/franchise.
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 19, 2017 13:41:43 GMT
I disagree. Usually when a game tanks there is a legitimate reason for it. Sometimes it's bad timing, bad optimization, or other reasons like heavy competition in that specific niche. I'm not saying games don't tank because of legitimate reasons. Watch Dogs 2 was pretty decent but was hampered by the legacy of Watch Dogs Assassin's Creed Syndicate was pretty decent but was hampered by the legacy of Assassin's Creed Unity. Was some of MEA's butthurt (issues aside) more intense because of the legacy of ME3? And yes, there should be enough time for Anthem to make its case, but people have long memories...
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 19, 2017 13:47:44 GMT
The intangible factor here is the extent to which the sentiment: 'Fuck EA'Prevents purchase of any game under the EA banner (for some people), irrespective of the economy in that specific game. Or whether such publisher antagonism is internet noise that has limited impact on sales? The buzz around Anthem at E3 was pretty good, actually surprisingly good because I thought the lack of information really didn't merit it. Can we foresee any future Anthem marketing to be accompanied (in comments) by an increasingly long list of sticks that can be used to beat the game/BioWare/EA with? - Fuck EA
- Where are the lootboxes?
- Will 'my face hurt'?
- SJWs gone mad
- Will this have a Red/Blue/Green ending?
I like to judge each game on its merits, but there are plenty of examples of games that tanked, not because the game was bad, but because the mood of the public was tired of the publisher/studio/franchise.
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Unfortunately, EA is now casting a long shadow over every game they publish. The company provided proof of their disdain for their core and expanded target market via this abominable P2W or P2get_rid_of_progression_obstacles. DICE's core design is faulty from a gamer's perspective and EA's temporary MT suspension add additional proof that they are mandatory.
A WSJ internal memo to subscribers cautioned a probable EA target miss from their projected 14M unit sale, due to negative publicity, which scared the shyte of of EA and they had to quickly make a SEC filing assuring investors that "their expectation was no material loss for the quarter".
Anthem, imo, is now subject to the phenomena of "unintended consequences". Good or bad Bio and their game is taking a negative hit. And, I'm one of those that feel Anthem was designed similarly to SWBF2 thanks to their overlords.
Any future Anthem info coming our way will be looked through a "what BS is this?" filter. I mean, we can always look back to EA/DICE statements like, "free DLC", "no monthly fees"... etc to truly know what's coming behind that PR crap.
Frankly, Bio's Anthem PR/marketing will run into a tough(er) sell. A truly unfortunate circumstance to be in. (🌸=◡=)
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Post by jclosed on Nov 19, 2017 14:05:22 GMT
Believe me - I do not have anything against Anthem as game concept.
I am personally very afraid Anthem will turn out to be a heavy multiplayer centric game with some single player stuff duck-taped on to keep single player gamers quiet. What is even more concerning is that this game is developed under the EA watchful eye. That could lead to a game that is "infected" in the same way Battlefront is infected. If that is the case, the game is completely dead for me (and I guess for a lot of other players too).
Really - I want Anthem to be a great game with a full single player experience and no lootboxes, microtransactions and all that stuff. But the reality knocks at my door to tell me I have to wake up from dreaming nice dreams, and prepare for the waking nightmare. I hope I am wrong, but yeah... Reality again...
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 19, 2017 14:05:48 GMT
I like to judge each game on its merits, but there are plenty of examples of games that tanked, not because the game was bad, but because the mood of the public was tired of the publisher/studio/franchise.I disagree. Usually when a game tanks there is a legitimate reason for it. Sometimes it's bad timing, bad optimization, or other reasons like heavy competition in that specific niche. Some could argue that, say, ME:A wasn't *as bad* as some made it, and I would tentatively agree, but I definitely understand why people disliked the game on release. I played the game on release and I encountered many of the same rough edges. This wasn't a triple-A game worthy of an IP like Mass Effect, and it certainly wasn't enough to rekindle the passion for said IP for people who kinda lost it. As for the SJW gone mad aspect, again, I think some people are exaggerating here, but there were certainly enough head-scratchers in ME:A's design that make a lot more sense when you look at it from this angle, but that's not really the topic here. As for Anthem, as I mentioned before, I think that if they focus on making Anthem a great enjoyable game rather than... other things that don't really have anything to do with making games more fun, then there's really no reason for the game to encounter any serious backlash. -(_ANTHEM_)-
It has evolved into a question of credibility.
EA has none. Studios bowing to their master are suspect. and they either bow or get gutted. Review magazines that gave SWBF2 a score of 70+ are also suspect. Christ, how could the magazine reviewer miss the P2W, the grind and that progression fiasco? The usual PR crap of "we hear you loud and clear", "we are making changes", "internal data showed us what initial values where OK to unlock heroes"... utter BS. The core game was designed purposely this way.
During the 1st 20 hours of SWBF2 game play there is a fast achievement rate and into the 24th hour+ it slows down to a crawl (see REDDIT forums).... Give the review magazine free access for the first 10 hours of play and all is honky-dory.... A false narrative revealed only after further game play. Again, I say it was designed this way to hook the player into a false sense of accomplishment.
Bottom line is that we don't really know until we play the game. And, Anthem will have MTs. That fact is really a DANGER sign... use CAUTION. (🌸=◡=)
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Sanunes
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 19, 2017 14:09:38 GMT
All I can believe from that is Disney might not be happy on the speed of the course correction, I just doubt the exclusivity deal is at all threatened. Too much money at stake and I bet EA has guarantees about when Disney could pull out so they aren't left with a pile of money invested in a game that is completely wasted for the IP disappears. If Disney is this unhappy I could see the contract not being renewed after it expires, but then there has to be another publisher that can step up and offer what Disney might want and I don't see smaller developers/publishers being able to afford the entry fee so that leaves a very small list and right now the only one I can think of is Activision/Blizzard.
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 19, 2017 14:24:07 GMT
The intangible factor here is the extent to which the sentiment: 'Fuck EA'Prevents purchase of any game under the EA banner (for some people), irrespective of the economy in that specific game. Or whether such publisher antagonism is internet noise that has limited impact on sales? The buzz around Anthem at E3 was pretty good, actually surprisingly good because I thought the lack of information really didn't merit it. Can we foresee any future Anthem marketing to be accompanied (in comments) by an increasingly long list of sticks that can be used to beat the game/BioWare/EA with? - Fuck EA
- Where are the lootboxes?
- Will 'my face hurt'?
- SJWs gone mad
- Will this have a Red/Blue/Green ending?
I like to judge each game on its merits, but there are plenty of examples of games that tanked, not because the game was bad, but because the mood of the public was tired of the publisher/studio/franchise.
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Unfortunately, EA is now casting a long shadow over every game they publish. The company provided proof of their disdain for their core and expanded target market via this abominable P2W or P2get_rid_of_progression_obstacles. DICE's core design is faulty from a gamer's perspective and EA's temporary MT suspension add additional proof that they are mandatory.
A WSJ internal memo to subscribers cautioned a probable EA target miss from their projected 14M unit sale, due to negative publicity, which scared the shyte of of EA and they had to quickly make a SEC filing assuring investors that "their expectation was no material loss for the quarter".
Anthem, imo, is now subject to the phenomena of "unintended consequences". Good or bad Bio and their game is taking a negative hit. And, I'm one of those that feel Anthem was designed similarly to SWBF2 thanks to their overlords.
Any future Anthem info coming our way will be looked through a "what BS is this?" filter. I mean, we can always look back to EA/DICE statements like, "free DLC", "no monthly fees"... etc to truly know what's coming behind that PR crap.
Frankly, Bio's Anthem PR/marketing will run into a tough(er) sell. A truly unfortunate circumstance to be in. (🌸=◡=)
And all that does is confirm what I wrote pages ago, how much of a vicious cycle this is and how inconsequential the actual blame can be. This is the 4th time that has happened in 6 years for EA. I'm frankly amazed by that at this point.
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