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Post by linksocarina on Nov 19, 2017 15:24:48 GMT
And all that does is confirm what I wrote pages ago, how much of a vicious cycle this is and how inconsequential the actual blame can be. This is the 4th time that has happened in 6 years for EA. I'm frankly amazed by that at this point. Consequential or not, there is more than enough blame here on EA, they are the ones constantly courting controversy one way or the other.
And while I understand their reasoning most of the time (can be summed up with the word "corporate"), I don't like it, and I don't see a reason to just let it go.
Of course, but the thing is they are the easy target for it. I remember a while back they were going to revive the Command and Conquer franchise with BioWare Victory, remember that? But there was that massive backlash to the game because at the time, they were doing something different with the series, a f2p model or something or other, I need to look it up later. EA later changed streams to make it more akin to the original games, but folks still out cried it before it was cancelled. I remember thinking at the time...why not play the game first? By just having a different setup or style to it, folks lost their collective mind in the end. What is interesting upon reflection is that this was after Mass Effect 3, so perhaps some of the outrage to that game boiled over, but this is a pattern of behavior that has been cyclical for a while now. When EA is to blame they rightfully get it. But I guess my thing is they aren't always to blame at default.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Nov 19, 2017 15:36:19 GMT
All I can believe from that is Disney might not be happy on the speed of the course correction, I just doubt the exclusivity deal is at all threatened. Too much money at stake and I bet EA has guarantees about when Disney could pull out so they aren't left with a pile of money invested in a game that is completely wasted for the IP disappears. If Disney is this unhappy I could see the contract not being renewed after it expires, but then there has to be another publisher that can step up and offer what Disney might want and I don't see smaller developers/publishers being able to afford the entry fee so that leaves a very small list and right now the only one I can think of is Activision/Blizzard. In giving an exclusive contract to EA for ten years, they handed a license to print money to EA. They have produced 2 games in that time, and the first can be considered a failure while the second is starting with massive baggage. The exclusivity deal is absolutely in danger. EA has fucked this up every possible way, and their shareholders should be furious that they haven't gone all-in on Star Wars gaming production. If the bottom line is what matters, they have blown it. Add to this the delay of what was the Visceral game, which will turn out to be shit after the "new direction" it is taking (which seems awfully familiar and similar to things we already have).... Total failure of planning and management with the most valuable IP in the world.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 19, 2017 16:38:40 GMT
I disagree. Usually when a game tanks there is a legitimate reason for it. Sometimes it's bad timing, bad optimization, or other reasons like heavy competition in that specific niche. I'm not saying games don't tank because of legitimate reasons. Watch Dogs 2 was pretty decent but was hampered by the legacy of Watch Dogs Assassin's Creed Syndicate was pretty decent but was hampered by the legacy of Assassin's Creed Unity. Was some of MEA's butthurt (issues aside) more intense because of the legacy of ME3? And yes, there should be enough time for Anthem to make its case, but people have long memories... If legacy ruining new games is one of your arguments, then why didnt the legacy of DA2 ruin DAI? So far no bitter AC legacy is ruining AC Origins. And if the legacy of SWBF2 does ruin Anthem, whos fault is that? Yes, Anthem had a good E3 showing, but that wad cause it was a doctored and choreographed demo that was meant to the ideal images. Nothing about MTs were mentioned.
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 19, 2017 16:41:28 GMT
If legacy ruining new games is one of your arguments, then why didnt the legacy of DA2 ruin DAI? So far no bitter AC legacy is ruining AC Origins. I think sufficient time passed between DA2 and DAi and AC took an extra year to craft ACO. It's a theory, it's likely not the whole story.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 19, 2017 16:58:31 GMT
The intangible factor here is the extent to which the sentiment: 'Fuck EA'Prevents purchase of any game under the EA banner (for some people), irrespective of the economy in that specific game. Or whether such publisher antagonism is internet noise that has limited impact on sales? The buzz around Anthem at E3 was pretty good, actually surprisingly good because I thought the lack of information really didn't merit it. Can we foresee any future Anthem marketing to be accompanied (in comments) by an increasingly long list of sticks that can be used to beat the game/BioWare/EA with? - Fuck EA
- Where are the lootboxes?
- Will 'my face hurt'?
- SJWs gone mad
- Will this have a Red/Blue/Green ending?
I like to judge each game on its merits, but there are plenty of examples of games that tanked, not because the game was bad, but because the mood of the public was tired of the publisher/studio/franchise.
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Unfortunately, EA is now casting a long shadow over every game they publish. The company provided proof of their disdain for their core and expanded target market via this abominable P2W or P2get_rid_of_progression_obstacles. DICE's core design is faulty from a gamer's perspective and EA's temporary MT suspension add additional proof that they are mandatory.
A WSJ internal memo to subscribers cautioned a probable EA target miss from their projected 14M unit sale, due to negative publicity, which scared the shyte of of EA and they had to quickly make a SEC filing assuring investors that "their expectation was no material loss for the quarter".
Anthem, imo, is now subject to the phenomena of "unintended consequences". Good or bad Bio and their game is taking a negative hit. And, I'm one of those that feel Anthem was designed similarly to SWBF2 thanks to their overlords.
Any future Anthem info coming our way will be looked through a "what BS is this?" filter. I mean, we can always look back to EA/DICE statements like, "free DLC", "no monthly fees"... etc to truly know what's coming behind that PR crap.
Frankly, Bio's Anthem PR/marketing will run into a tough(er) sell. A truly unfortunate circumstance to be in. (🌸=◡=)
I agree. 2018 will have 2 big MP titles, Battlefield and Anthem. Battlefield is coming in with greater goodwill cause BF1 wad a critical and financial success and unlike Battlefront which wad originally made by Pandemic, Battlefield is a long going franchise from DICE. While DICE is knocking it out of the water with Battlefield, they still are haunted by the legacy of the 2005 Battlefront game which is still considered the best Battlefront game and the one all future ones will be compared to. With Anthem, it is coming off of the legacy of Bioware/Mass Effect. It has more going against it. For one, it is a MP focused Bioware game which in itself makes it an oxymoron in itself as Bioware os known for their SP/Companion driven games, not MP driven games. Next, people believe MEA was gimped in order to favor Anthem. Third, unlike Battlefield which has a good rep, Anthem is new which makes it an easier target. My theory, Anthem will be a critical failure which would ultimately lead to the closing/merging of Bioware and the fate of DA4 being in question.
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 19, 2017 17:10:51 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Coercive Monetization tricks
The link below points to an article written by Alex Dale, a member of the Gamasutra community. He also wrote a paper on Systems of Control in F2P.
Some quotes from the article: "A coercive monetization model depends on the ability to “trick” a person into making a purchase with incomplete information, or by hiding that information such that while it is technically available, the brain of the consumer does not access that information. Hiding a purchase can be as simple as disguising the relationship between the action and the cost ..."
Another: "Research has shown that putting even one intermediate currency between the consumer and real money, such as a “game gem” (premium currency), makes the consumer much less adept at assessing the value of the transaction. Additional intermediary objects, what I call “layering”, makes it even harder for the brain to accurately assess the situation, especially if there is some additional stress applied...."
EA/DICE management failed ti "get it" and made a total mess with SWBF2. Personally, I believe they banked too much on the fans' attraction for Star Wars that the players would ignore the obvious bait and switch tactic.
Here the link to an interesting read, imo: (🌸=◡=)
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 19, 2017 17:25:55 GMT
My theory, Anthem will be a critical failure which would ultimately lead to the closing/merging of Bioware and the fate of DA4 being in question. Well, it's a theory. But if the worst case leads to the worst case, and that leads to the worst case, then sure. I think we're a long way from that, though granted, the risk is not zero. I still trust BioWare's 'A team' to pull off something interesting.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 19, 2017 18:35:15 GMT
My theory, Anthem will be a critical failure which would ultimately lead to the closing/merging of Bioware and the fate of DA4 being in question. Well, it's a theory. But if the worst case leads to the worst case, and that leads to the worst case, then sure. I think we're a long way from that, though granted, the risk is not zero. I still trust BioWare's 'A team' to pull off something interesting. To be honest, for full disclosure, I hope Anthem fails. Bioware has always been a story/companion driven developer and chasing after the Destiny niche is not what they are known for. This whole games as service/MP focus to me is a bubble that will eventually burst. Even Cyberpunk 2077 can be suspect if it turns out to be MP focused over SP focused.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 19, 2017 18:37:14 GMT
Well, it's a theory. But if the worst case leads to the worst case, and that leads to the worst case, then sure. I think we're a long way from that, though granted, the risk is not zero. I still trust BioWare's 'A team' to pull off something interesting. To be honest, for full disclosure, I hope Anthem fails. Bioware has always been a story/companion driven developer and chasing after the Destiny niche is not what they are known for. This whole games as service/MP focus to me is a bubble that will eventually burst. Even Cyberpunk 2077 can be suspect if it turns out to be MP focused over SP focused. I get what you are saying, but I don't want BioWare to be the next Ubisoft where they are known for one game type only and it becomes a big joke they don't try anything new.
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 19, 2017 18:43:10 GMT
To be honest, for full disclosure, I hope Anthem fails. Bioware has always been a story/companion driven developer and chasing after the Destiny niche is not what they are known for. This whole games as service/MP focus to me is a bubble that will eventually burst. Even Cyberpunk 2077 can be suspect if it turns out to be MP focused over SP focused. To hope that a game fails, when BioWare have already a recent troublesome release under their belt this year, seems mean. Anthem failing does not increase the chances of BioWare making the sort of game you personally might like, it would reduce their ability to make any game. Seems odd to enjoy spending your time on a forum discussing a game you want to fail.
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Post by smilesja on Nov 19, 2017 18:46:14 GMT
Well, it's a theory. But if the worst case leads to the worst case, and that leads to the worst case, then sure. I think we're a long way from that, though granted, the risk is not zero. I still trust BioWare's 'A team' to pull off something interesting. To be honest, for full disclosure, I hope Anthem fails. Bioware has always been a story/companion driven developer and chasing after the Destiny niche is not what they are known for. This whole games as service/MP focus to me is a bubble that will eventually burst. Even Cyberpunk 2077 can be suspect if it turns out to be MP focused over SP focused. If this game fails, than it’s likely the end of Mass Effect and Dragon Age.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Nov 19, 2017 19:13:28 GMT
To be honest, for full disclosure, I hope Anthem fails. Bioware has always been a story/companion driven developer and chasing after the Destiny niche is not what they are known for. This whole games as service/MP focus to me is a bubble that will eventually burst. Even Cyberpunk 2077 can be suspect if it turns out to be MP focused over SP focused. If this game fails, than it’s likely the end of Mass Effect and Dragon Age. I would say if Anthem fails, and then DA4 does as well, that might indeed be it for Bioware. But that's a big if and the DA team has a big advantage in learning where Mass Effect failed.
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 19, 2017 19:22:11 GMT
Indeed.
Ideally, some 'learning' from Battlefront II happens, given that there is still time to implement such lessons.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 19, 2017 20:06:53 GMT
To be honest, for full disclosure, I hope Anthem fails. Bioware has always been a story/companion driven developer and chasing after the Destiny niche is not what they are known for. This whole games as service/MP focus to me is a bubble that will eventually burst. Even Cyberpunk 2077 can be suspect if it turns out to be MP focused over SP focused. To hope that a game fails, when BioWare have already a recent troublesome release under their belt this year, seems mean. Anthem failing does not increase the chances of BioWare making the sort of game you personally might like, it would reduce their ability to make any game. Seems odd to enjoy spending your time on a forum discussing a game you want to fail. 2 things could happen if Anthem fails: 1) EA decides to dissolve or merge Bioware (DA4 may or may not be affected by this) 2) It wakes up EA and and allows Bioware to go back to doing what they do best. If Anthem is a hit: 1) DA4 will continue as developed but any future Bioware games would be a bit more MP centric to include an MP focused DA5. Considering the setting differences of DA and Anthem, a DA game that is like Anthem wont cannibalize each other. Either way, I dont see how a successful Anthem would allow Bioware to go back and make SP/Companion focused games. By this time, SWTOR would be nearing its 10 year endeavor and EA would be working on a SW Anthem style game.
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 19, 2017 20:13:00 GMT
I dont see how a successful Anthem would allow Bioware to go back and make SP/Companion focused games. I think the whole concept of 'single-player only' games at EA/BioWare is dead (and that's fine). The question is more about whether single and multiplayer elements in future games are implemented well or poorly.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 19, 2017 20:29:21 GMT
I dont see how a successful Anthem would allow Bioware to go back and make SP/Companion focused games. I think the whole concept of 'single-player only' games at EA/BioWare is dead (and that's fine). The question is more about whether single and multiplayer elements in future games are implemented well or poorly. Well they dont have to SP only (wish they were as most of the top games of 2017 had no MP component whatsoever) but I want them to be at least SP focused. As of yet, Bioware has not signaled that Anthem will be a SP focused game. They said it can be played entirely solo....but Phantasy Star Online for the DC also coulf have been played solo and offline and yet the meat if the game was in MP, not SP. While SWTOR can also be played solo, you still can't separate yourself from the MP. Many of the high end items can onlt be obtained through the GTN....or lootboxes. Even now there is an event going on where Bioware is forcing players to do grouped content in order to get a new companion. Again, highlighting the fact that you cannot completely run away from MP in SWTOR if you want all the goodies. ME3 had MP, but it was just a component, ME3 was clearly a SP game. Last of Us had MP, but again, it was clearly a SP game. What Bioware/EA seems to be doing is flipping it. Making games that have a SP compoment, but is clearly a MP game.
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 19, 2017 20:37:12 GMT
My theory, Anthem will be a critical failure which would ultimately lead to the closing/merging of Bioware and the fate of DA4 being in question. SnipI still trust BioWare's 'A team' to pull off something interesting. -(_ANTHEM_)-
Hm...
The question I ask myself is "will the interesting satisfy EA?".
(🌸=◡=)
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 19, 2017 20:41:14 GMT
SnipI still trust BioWare's 'A team' to pull off something interesting. -(_ANTHEM_)-
Hm...
The question I ask myself is "will the interesting satisfy EA?".
(🌸=◡=)
Does it matter if it does? After all, the bottom line is more important than the opinions of the suits sometimes.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 19, 2017 20:50:36 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Hm...
The question I ask myself is "will the interesting satisfy EA?".
(🌸=◡=)
Does it matter if it does? After all, the bottom line is more important than the opinions of the suits sometimes. Most times it is the suits that have opinions that are more aligned with increasing the bottom line.
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 19, 2017 20:56:24 GMT
Does it matter if it does? After all, the bottom line is more important than the opinions of the suits sometimes. Most times it is the suits that have opinions that are more aligned with increasing the bottom line. And yet that doesn't mean it is a uniform thought. The suits have their own ideas of what can increase that bottom line, developers however can find their own way.
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 19, 2017 21:53:06 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Speaking of bottom line, read the nugget in the link below. It clearly spells why SWBF2 is the beast it is and why I now strongly believe, Anthem will be the same. Actually, all future EA games will follow this new approach. SWBF2 was a beginner's misstep and why the MTs are temporarily suspended but will come back with a vengeance.
Unfortunately I'm not a subscriber to the WSJ, but the title of the article gives it away.
www.wsj.com/articles/star-wars-battlefront-ii-electronic-arts-shifts-revenue-strategy-1497124800(🌸=◡=)
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 19, 2017 21:55:59 GMT
Most times it is the suits that have opinions that are more aligned with increasing the bottom line. And yet that doesn't mean it is a uniform thought. The suits have their own ideas of what can increase that bottom line, developers however can find their own way. I agree and this whole "forced multiplayer" idea in some ways frustrates the tar out of me for that is all we heard for years on the BSN prime about how the whole needed needed to be played in co-op and all kinds of different things about multiplayer are important to make the game fun and extend its legs. Now that is the direction EA and BioWare seem to be going, its now demonstrating its a bad idea. This is what really angers me with BioWare for they keep failing to understand that people don't all want the same things so instead of only trying to please the complainers about their games just make the game they want to make for people are never going to be happy if they keep only trying to address the complainers.
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 19, 2017 22:26:25 GMT
And yet that doesn't mean it is a uniform thought. The suits have their own ideas of what can increase that bottom line, developers however can find their own way. I agree and this whole "forced multiplayer" idea in some ways frustrates the tar out of me for that is all we heard for years on the BSN prime about how the whole needed needed to be played in co-op and all kinds of different things about multiplayer are important to make the game fun and extend its legs. Now that is the direction EA and BioWare seem to be going, its now demonstrating its a bad idea. This is what really angers me with BioWare for they keep failing to understand that people don't all want the same things so instead of only trying to please the complainers about their games just make the game they want to make for people are never going to be happy if they keep only trying to address the complainers. Devils advocate for a moment, but isn't that what Anthem is for BioWare? Isn't part of the gameplay design of Dragon Age 2 or the narrative ending to Mass Effect 3 just that, and BioWare has time and again had to address the complainers because the sound of yelling is so damn loud? I said this before as a double edged sword, where its good and bad they actually listen to their fanbase. Good because they actually care, but bad because it leads them to throw babies out with the bathwater all the time and overcorrect their mistakes. You are 100% right on all of that. But they lose either way at this point so a better question is why do they tend to overcorrect? I think that is much more telling about the studio and how they see things around them, honestly.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 19, 2017 23:42:38 GMT
I agree and this whole "forced multiplayer" idea in some ways frustrates the tar out of me for that is all we heard for years on the BSN prime about how the whole needed needed to be played in co-op and all kinds of different things about multiplayer are important to make the game fun and extend its legs. Now that is the direction EA and BioWare seem to be going, its now demonstrating its a bad idea. This is what really angers me with BioWare for they keep failing to understand that people don't all want the same things so instead of only trying to please the complainers about their games just make the game they want to make for people are never going to be happy if they keep only trying to address the complainers. Devils advocate for a moment, but isn't that what Anthem is for BioWare? Isn't part of the gameplay design of Dragon Age 2 or the narrative ending to Mass Effect 3 just that, and BioWare has time and again had to address the complainers because the sound of yelling is so damn loud? I said this before as a double edged sword, where its good and bad they actually listen to their fanbase. Good because they actually care, but bad because it leads them to throw babies out with the bathwater all the time and overcorrect their mistakes. You are 100% right on all of that. But they lose either way at this point so a better question is why do they tend to overcorrect? I think that is much more telling about the studio and how they see things around them, honestly. No disagreement on your analysis. Personally its why I am looking forward for Anthem not because its like Destiny, but a BioWare game that is probably the first BioWare influenced game since Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 1.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2017 0:04:27 GMT
Devils advocate for a moment, but isn't that what Anthem is for BioWare? Isn't part of the gameplay design of Dragon Age 2 or the narrative ending to Mass Effect 3 just that, and BioWare has time and again had to address the complainers because the sound of yelling is so damn loud? I said this before as a double edged sword, where its good and bad they actually listen to their fanbase. Good because they actually care, but bad because it leads them to throw babies out with the bathwater all the time and overcorrect their mistakes. You are 100% right on all of that. But they lose either way at this point so a better question is why do they tend to overcorrect? I think that is much more telling about the studio and how they see things around them, honestly. No disagreement on your analysis. Personally its why I am looking forward for Anthem not because its like Destiny, but a BioWare game that is probably the first BioWare influenced game since Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 1. It’s a new BioWare IP, that’s enough for me to look forward to it - I love their IPs and want a new world and new characters, even if it is powersuits.
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