linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Dec 9, 2017 20:54:26 GMT
That's kind of my point though, we shouldn't have to see other companies spend marketing dollars to poke fun at their competition. I just find that stuff juvenile. I's been juvenile for a while now. As I mentioned before gaming industry has a long history of taking more or less subtle potshots at one another. I mean... at the very least this now is mostly targeting adult audience, because not that long ago this stuff was (pretty insidiously IMO) targeting kids and spurring console wars. Just because it has been that way for a while now, doesn't mean it should continue. I'm in the minority on that though, I think.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 9, 2017 21:15:50 GMT
I's been juvenile for a while now. As I mentioned before gaming industry has a long history of taking more or less subtle potshots at one another. I mean... at the very least this now is mostly targeting adult audience, because not that long ago this stuff was (pretty insidiously IMO) targeting kids and spurring console wars. Just because it has been that way for a while now, doesn't mean it should continue. I'm in the minority on that though, I think. Me saying that it happened for a while doesn't mean I say that it should continue. I'm for smart, sometimes biting marketing, but one's gotta admit that the whole current situation is a pretty low-hanging fruit, nevermind that some some glass houses may have been broken in the result with all the stones being hurled through them.
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Post by majesticjazz on Dec 10, 2017 0:08:27 GMT
Successfully stigmatizing these practices is a much needed step. I don’t think EA actually knows what to do about Battlefront 2 at this point. I’m hopefully about how this will affect their approach to non-sports game monetization in the future. Battlefront 2 may already be a lost cause, I think the damage has already been done and the only thing EA can do now is use it as a learning experience for their next game, I guess time will tell whether or not the lessons they learnt were the right ones if they learned anything at all. And if that "next game" is Anthem, then that just adds more pressure on Bioware. Anthem was already a game that was supposed to erase the sour taste that was left by MEA. Now they have to erase the SWBF2 sour taste. Uphill battle for Anthem.
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 10, 2017 0:16:20 GMT
Uphill battle for Anthem. It's certainly not a following wind. They'll need to be sure to make it a terrific game then.
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Post by majesticjazz on Dec 10, 2017 2:08:33 GMT
Uphill battle for Anthem. It's certainly not a following wind. They'll need to be sure to make it a terrific game then. Outside of the Loot Box progression system, BF2 seemed like a good game (from what I played in the beta). The problems that Anthem will have is: 1) How much does it deviate from the Bioware formula? Bioware is known for their companion characters and if Anthem ditches companion based gameplay for purely solo (or multiplayer) gameplay, how will that turn out? Even SWTOR which was MP focused had companions. 2) How much does EA try to monetize it? What will the MTs and lootboxes be like? 3) Will it even feel like a Bioware game or some EA forced agenda to capitalize on the success of Destiny?
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 10, 2017 3:11:09 GMT
It's certainly not a following wind. They'll need to be sure to make it a terrific game then. Outside of the Loot Box progression system, BF2 seemed like a good game (from what I played in the beta). The problems that Anthem will have is: 1) How much does it deviate from the Bioware formula? Bioware is known for their companion characters and if Anthem ditches companion based gameplay for purely solo (or multiplayer) gameplay, how will that turn out? Even SWTOR which was MP focused had companions. 2) How much does EA try to monetize it? What will the MTs and lootboxes be like? 3) Will it even feel like a Bioware game or some EA forced agenda to capitalize on the success of Destiny? 1) I don't think it would be a bad thing to deviate from the BioWare formula, I think BioWare needs a break from that formula to try and make a good game again since you keep seeing people complain about that formula taking a break might inspire future games. I really think BioWare is a lot like Ubisoft right now they have a formula and they keep sticking to it to the detriment of their games since there is very little innovation since they don't deviate. 2) That will definitely be something to watch, but I haven't minded the system BioWare has used in the past and if it stays close to that I think most people will find it acceptable. 3) To me that goes along with 1).
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 10, 2017 8:31:11 GMT
It's certainly not a following wind. They'll need to be sure to make it a terrific game then. Outside of the Loot Box progression system, BF2 seemed like a good game (from what I played in the beta). The problems that Anthem will have is: 1) How much does it deviate from the Bioware formula? Bioware is known for their companion characters and if Anthem ditches companion based gameplay for purely solo (or multiplayer) gameplay, how will that turn out? Even SWTOR which was MP focused had companions. 2) How much does EA try to monetize it? What will the MTs and lootboxes be like? 3) Will it even feel like a Bioware game or some EA forced agenda to capitalize on the success of Destiny? These will need to be established in the pre-launch marketing. Being different to a past 'house-style' is not necessarily a bad thing so long as it is good and interesting.
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Post by Sartoz on Dec 10, 2017 13:09:16 GMT
These will need to be established in the pre-launch marketing. Being different to a past 'house-style' is not necessarily a bad thing so long as it is good and interesting. -(_ANTHEM_)-
Good and Interesting are two upcoming 2018 titles worthy of competition for Anthem. If these two games have no or a minimalistic MT+LB system and their fun to play, Bio+EA will have a tough slug ahead. Anthem is so similar to the Mech franchise. Also, I find it odd that three similar style games will launch in 2018.
(1) Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries "features intense PvE ‘Mech combat in an immersive, career-based Mercenary campaign driven by player choice. The game’s newly-announced co-op functionality will enable players to host up to three friends inside their campaign universe, running missions together as a coordinated lance under the banner of the host’s mercenary unit.
Mercenaries will also receive full mod support, empowering fans to customize their own missions, contracts, planetary systems, biomes, and much more, via powerful toolsets and Steam Workshop integration."
Link:
(2) Battletech This turn based game from Herebrained, is NOT being rushed to meet a deadline. "Throughout development our Backers have been clear: ‘Don’t rush it, just make it great.’ and we have taken that advice to heart. ". It was delayed from 2017 to 2018.
Link:
I played both, way back when. I liked them. Also like the MOD support capability of Mechwarrior 5": Mercenaries which gives the Bird to EA, Frostbite, Dice and Bio. These two games are ideal for cosmetics addons but Mech 5 probably won't have MTs for them. Battletech will have a Beta lasting a month coming up shortly. Link: battletechgame.com/ 🌸
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Post by ShadowAngel on Dec 10, 2017 13:52:18 GMT
It's certainly not a following wind. They'll need to be sure to make it a terrific game then. Outside of the Loot Box progression system, BF2 seemed like a good game (from what I played in the beta). The problems that Anthem will have is: 1) How much does it deviate from the Bioware formula? Bioware is known for their companion characters and if Anthem ditches companion based gameplay for purely solo (or multiplayer) gameplay, how will that turn out? Even SWTOR which was MP focused had companions. 2) How much does EA try to monetize it? What will the MTs and lootboxes be like? 3) Will it even feel like a Bioware game or some EA forced agenda to capitalize on the success of Destiny? 1.i really don't think this is aimed at Bioware fans anyways, more so when they're wanting to make the "Bob Dylan" of video games so that impact will need to far exceed Bioware fans. I myself can forgive Anthem not being your typical Bioware game as it's an experiment with a newer idea plus biowares current games already deviate from previous formulas, I don't think going further can hurt it anymore than it has. Anthems issue will be what happens when/if it can't get non Bioware audiences? Cause it then won't be able to rely on the leftover that isn't passed off at them for stability. As long as the game does something unique while capturing a new audience, it'll be fine. 2.as for monetizing: anyone's guess for now. I wouldn't be surprised if they went aggressive like they did battlefront 2 but I also wouldn't be surprised to see them take it easy on a new IP with no record to back it up. An aggressive monetized system really won't benefit the game if it starts right off the bat. 3. I'm counting on a new experience. As I said in point 1, I don't think Bioware fans will be their target audience if the goal is to be a Bob Dylan of video games as that audience is to small to make that happen. I also don't think it's about being like Destiny either as destiny has had a huge effect on the industry when it comes to being a power house (more so in D2 as the game is losing players left and right due to mediocrity and killing player choice). I think anthem being a new IP could be good for Bioware, sometimes doing something new/different is what one needs to get back on a roll. Coaches accustomed to winning hit a slump and move into a new team, that sometimes rejuvenates their career. Sometimes a writer just needs to move to a new story rather than one he/she has been working on for a decade. I'd ven apply that to game developers, franchise fatigue is a thing where your enthusiasm just slowly wears on an old project where doing something new gets your brain going again. Plus it's better doing new IPs rather than applying those to older brands due to people not liking certain changes to a previous formula. I'm no fan of mass effect or dragon ages action set approach and would've rathered they'd try something like Anthem much sooner to possibly avoid a hack and slash game and one being more shooter than anything else it has.
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Post by mmoblitz on Dec 10, 2017 14:06:15 GMT
I'm in the minority on that though, I think. Not necessarily, at the very least I understand your point, it just that I detest "professional" corporate-speak even more, it usually comes across as smug and dishonest. ("we are listening to our fans, we are aware that many of you are very passionate about... blah blah blah...") I would like to think that the more informed gamers see right through corporate speak when they read/hear it. They are the minority though in the gaming population. It's your avg everyday gamer that doesn't really frequent forums or research publishers/dev studios. For the most part, I'm willing to bet they take whatever is told to them. All they really care about it the shiny new game. UNtil that changes, things will remain the same. I do think we maybe seeing a small shift though thanks to EA.
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Post by mmoblitz on Dec 10, 2017 14:18:45 GMT
Outside of the Loot Box progression system, BF2 seemed like a good game (from what I played in the beta). The problems that Anthem will have is: 1) How much does it deviate from the Bioware formula? Bioware is known for their companion characters and if Anthem ditches companion based gameplay for purely solo (or multiplayer) gameplay, how will that turn out? Even SWTOR which was MP focused had companions. 2) How much does EA try to monetize it? What will the MTs and lootboxes be like? 3) Will it even feel like a Bioware game or some EA forced agenda to capitalize on the success of Destiny? 1.i really don't think this is aimed at Bioware fans anyways, more so when they're wanting to make the "Bob Dylan" of video games so that impact will need to far exceed Bioware fans. I myself can forgive Anthem not being your typical Bioware game as it's an experiment with a newer idea plus biowares current games already deviate from previous formulas, I don't think going further can hurt it anymore than it has. Anthems issue will be what happens when/if it can't get non Bioware audiences? Cause it then won't be able to rely on the leftover that isn't passed off at them for stability. As long as the game does something unique while capturing a new audience, it'll be fine. 2.as for monetizing: anyone's guess for now. I wouldn't be surprised if they went aggressive like they did battlefront 2 but I also wouldn't be surprised to see them take it easy on a new IP with no record to back it up. An aggressive monetized system really won't benefit the game if it starts right off the bat. 3. I'm counting on a new experience. As I said in point 1, I don't think Bioware fans will be their target audience if the goal is to be a Bob Dylan of video games as that audience is to small to make that happen. I also don't think it's about being like Destiny either as destiny has had a huge effect on the industry when it comes to being a power house (more so in D2 as the game is losing players left and right due to mediocrity and killing player choice). I think anthem being a new IP could be good for Bioware, sometimes doing something new/different is what one needs to get back on a roll. Coaches accustomed to winning hit a slump and move into a new team, that sometimes rejuvenates their career. Sometimes a writer just needs to move to a new story rather than one he/she has been working on for a decade. I'd ven apply that to game developers, franchise fatigue is a thing where your enthusiasm just slowly wears on an old project where doing something new gets your brain going again. Plus it's better doing new IPs rather than applying those to older brands due to people not liking certain changes to a previous formula. I'm no fan of mass effect or dragon ages action set approach and would've rathered they'd try something like Anthem much sooner to possibly avoid a hack and slash game and one being more shooter than anything else it has. While I agree with you, Bioware did do something new with ME3 when they put MP in it. While it was good for that game, they havne't been able to recreate that experience and we have gotten two (imo) mediocre games at best from them since. Perhaps it's time to take a step back and regroup with DA4. Go back to what made the first two DA games and the ME OT great in the first place; Story, characters, and dialog. Make that the focus of DA4, not open world, MP, and world building.
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 10, 2017 15:59:19 GMT
Good and Interesting are two upcoming 2018 titles worthy of competition for Anthem. Hmmm, I checked out the MechWarrior trailer, it's hardly Frostbite (more Fallout 4) and 1st person, so I'm not convinced this poses any competition unless it's a game style people specifically prefer. And Battletech looks like Civilization with bots (same situation). I'm not seeing any competition here.
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Dec 10, 2017 16:05:28 GMT
Good and Interesting are two upcoming 2018 titles worthy of competition for Anthem. Hmmm, I checked out the MechWarrior trailer, it's hardly Frostbite (more Fallout 4) and 1st person, so I'm not convinced this poses any competition unless it's a game style people specifically prefer. And Battletech looks like Civilization with bots (same situation). I'm not seeing any competition here. I think it will be similar to the PoE/Inquisition sort of split. PoE attracted a lot of the old school grognards, backers, and people in the know when it comes to RPGs. I think Battletech may do the same, especially if it's a similar sort of multiplayer style game like Anthem. It will still be a niche though.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 10, 2017 16:27:14 GMT
These will need to be established in the pre-launch marketing. Being different to a past 'house-style' is not necessarily a bad thing so long as it is good and interesting. -(_ANTHEM_)-
Good and Interesting are two upcoming 2018 titles worthy of competition for Anthem. If these two games have no or a minimalistic MT+LB system and their fun to play, Bio+EA will have a tough slug ahead. Anthem is so similar to the Mech franchise. Also, I find it odd that three similar style games will launch in 2018. I don't find it odd at all. That's game developers and publishers making a guess a few years earlier about what is going to sell based on market trends, crunching numbers and... voila.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 10, 2017 18:51:53 GMT
These will need to be established in the pre-launch marketing. Being different to a past 'house-style' is not necessarily a bad thing so long as it is good and interesting. -(_ANTHEM_)-
Good and Interesting are two upcoming 2018 titles worthy of competition for Anthem. If these two games have no or a minimalistic MT+LB system and their fun to play, Bio+EA will have a tough slug ahead. Anthem is so similar to the Mech franchise. Also, I find it odd that three similar style games will launch in 2018.
{snip for length and broken spoiler tags} I played both, way back when. I liked them. Also like the MOD support capability of Mechwarrior 5": Mercenaries which gives the Bird to EA, Frostbite, Dice and Bio. These two games are ideal for cosmetics addons but Mech 5 probably won't have MTs for them. Battletech will have a Beta lasting a month coming up shortly. Link: battletechgame.com/
I wouldn't be so happy about MechWarrior 5, these are the same people that have done MechWarrior Online and all my friends that played it were chased out by F2P practices, such as $100 mechs that are only special because they are gold colored. Just because they use the keyword mods doesn't mean anything, for The Wither 3 was to have mod support as well, but CDPR restricted it to the point of near worthlessness. As far as Harebrained, I have a firm expectation of what they are offering, but just like their Shadowrun games or Hellblade from this year, I don't think it will do big enough sales that even if they screw up Anthem I am not sure enough people will notice to be a problem. Besides I thought people would have finally learned to not expect what publishers or developers claim this far out from development for I keep seeing those posts after a launch not to believe what is being said so far out. Edit: Fixed spoiler tages
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 10, 2017 19:11:10 GMT
I don't mind seeing other developers taking pot shots at EA, however there are some developers that probably do need to be a little bit cautious before taking pot shots at others with how fragile glass houses can be, not sure how clean Bethesda's hands are with the whole creation club thing looming over them. ^ Yeah, that's why I find it all rather ironic, despite me not exactly feeling sorry for EA... All the more reason why it's good marketing -- distract from your own fuck ups. No one said win-win had anything to do with virtue. That said, it's unclear to me how much of the Creation Club mess to lay at the feet of Bethesda vs. Valve. I'm sure Bethesda isn't completely innocent, but I also don't know how much of the blame they deserve, and maybe we ought to be thanking them for curbing the worst of Valve's excesses? CC was a long time coming. Valve's been wanting to monetize the mod storefront forever. Maybe some of the delay has been Bethesda trying to reason with Valve?
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 10, 2017 19:21:43 GMT
Not necessarily, at the very least I understand your point, it just that I detest "professional" corporate-speak even more, it usually comes across as smug and dishonest. That might be because it is. There's a clear assumption that their customers are stupid and childish. My question is, why do they think that with such consistency and regularity? Why does the gamer market come across to MBA types as a bunch of rubes? And is it specifically the gamer market, or all consumer/entertainment markets?
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 10, 2017 19:41:58 GMT
Not necessarily, at the very least I understand your point, it just that I detest "professional" corporate-speak even more, it usually comes across as smug and dishonest. That might be because it is. There's a clear assumption that their customers are stupid and childish. My question is, why do they think that with such consistency and regularity? Why does the gamer market come across to MBA types as a bunch of rubes? And is it specifically the gamer market, or all consumer/entertainment markets? Well, there's only one appropriate response to that...
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Post by river82 on Dec 10, 2017 20:14:31 GMT
Battletech will be an instabuy for anybody who enjoyed the classic board game from the eighties. It isn't Civilization with bots, Civilization is a 4X strategy game whereas Battletech will be more squad based strategy RPG similar to Shadowrun. Funnily enough the board game was created by Jordan Weisman, who is currently the head of Harebrained studios :3.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 10, 2017 20:22:38 GMT
I don't mind seeing other developers taking pot shots at EA, however there are some developers that probably do need to be a little bit cautious before taking pot shots at others with how fragile glass houses can be, not sure how clean Bethesda's hands are with the whole creation club thing looming over them. ^ Yeah, that's why I find it all rather ironic, despite me not exactly feeling sorry for EA... All the more reason why it's good marketing -- distract from your own fuck ups. No one said win-win had anything to do with virtue. That said, it's unclear to me how much of the Creation Club mess to lay at the feet of Bethesda vs. Valve. I'm sure Bethesda isn't completely innocent, but I also don't know how much of the blame they deserve, and maybe we ought to be thanking them for curbing the worst of Valve's excesses? CC was a long time coming. Valve's been wanting to monetize the mod storefront forever. Maybe some of the delay has been Bethesda trying to reason with Valve? How would it have been Valve's fault? The problem I see with Creation Club is the promise that it would be more, but in reality it was just another set of horse armor DLC and other skins that had an outrageous price and used an internal point system which no matter how hard you would try would leave you with excess points. To top it off even if you don't buy anything you would have to download all of the creation club content for no explained reasoning. Everything I saw of Creation Club bypassed Valve because it was also designed to work on consoles at the same time. I don't mind throwing Valve under the bus when it was needed, such as them trying to force EA to sell everything on their storefront including DLC so they can make more transactions and therefore more 20% commissions, how the entire gambling fiasco they turned a blind eye to as well, or horrible customer support if you needed to deal with a person. Edit: Explained a little more.
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Post by majesticjazz on Dec 10, 2017 20:43:31 GMT
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 10, 2017 21:00:23 GMT
Yep, it was certainly a 'kick EA' evening.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 10, 2017 21:39:35 GMT
Yep, it was certainly a 'kick EA' evening. I agree, but at the same time I don't think EA cares, the two US publishers that are bigger then them (Activision and Microsoft) have to be careful of glass houses, but otherwise EA dwarfs a lot of those companies. Mind you it still would have been nice to see a Bethesda jab or two against them for there "anti-review policy" which has now been suspended without an annoucement or their lack of quality control would be nice, but I know the people that speak out are afraid to do so unless it is acceptable on the internet which EA current is.
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Post by Sartoz on Dec 11, 2017 7:50:16 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Anthem, the future of gaming "as-a-service".
Here is a post I found in REDDIT from a SWBF2 gamer. He describes the "services" which poked me into asking "what about Anthem's?".
" (1) Uninspired weekly challenges. Killing enemies with each class...playing for a certain amount of time with each class. How long did it take to come up with that? What's next? Roll 500 times?
(2) Lazy, half-assed implementation of challenges: can't even be bothered to divide the challenges up by the conditions that are required. I guess we're supposed to take mental notes instead of the game keeping track of the challenge for us.
(3) Just straight up releasing incomplete work. Did you all see the reward crate where they just had the incorrect placeholder name of the crate? Unbelievably sloppy.
(4) Rewards of weekly challenges: more tone deafness of EA not actually listening to the gripes of the community. 25 crafting parts from 'Destroy Them' What the fuck can we do with 25 crafting parts? Add a 0 to that and then it would be worth it to do these inane challenges.
(5) No explanation or communication about events outlined on EA's events calender. Blast Sunday? Just needed to fill some space to bolster the 'Season'? That's a good way to not piss people off /s. ... "
Now, I realise that MEAMP has / had weekly challenges but the rewards are pitiful as well. Ergo, I rarely go for them. So, if this is supposed to "bring me back to play again", well, it does not work for me. Which brings me to BF2.
If what the above SWBF2 gamer mentions is true then can we expect similar "service challenges" from Anthem?. Somehow I'm not inspired by this business model. How can these anemic "new challenges" keep the fans coming back? This guy is definitely bored.
🌸
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Post by PillarBiter on Dec 11, 2017 11:20:15 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Anthem, the future of gaming "as-a-service".
Here is a post I found in REDDIT from a SWBF2 gamer. He describes the "services" which poked me into asking "what about Anthem's?".
" (1) Uninspired weekly challenges. Killing enemies with each class...playing for a certain amount of time with each class. How long did it take to come up with that? What's next? Roll 500 times?
(2) Lazy, half-assed implementation of challenges: can't even be bothered to divide the challenges up by the conditions that are required. I guess we're supposed to take mental notes instead of the game keeping track of the challenge for us.
(3) Just straight up releasing incomplete work. Did you all see the reward crate where they just had the incorrect placeholder name of the crate? Unbelievably sloppy.
(4) Rewards of weekly challenges: more tone deafness of EA not actually listening to the gripes of the community. 25 crafting parts from 'Destroy Them' What the fuck can we do with 25 crafting parts? Add a 0 to that and then it would be worth it to do these inane challenges.
(5) No explanation or communication about events outlined on EA's events calender. Blast Sunday? Just needed to fill some space to bolster the 'Season'? That's a good way to not piss people off /s. ... "
Now, I realise that MEAMP has / had weekly challenges but the rewards are pitiful as well. Ergo, I rarely go for them. So, if this is supposed to "bring me back to play again", well, it does not work for me. Which brings me to BF2.
If what the above SWBF2 gamer mentions is true then can we expect similar "service challenges" from Anthem?. Somehow I'm not inspired by this business model. How can these anemic "new challenges" keep the fans coming back? This guy is definitely bored.
🌸
I really want to like and play anthem. But if this is indeed it's future (especially if the game is designed around multiplayer), I will have to let my absence of money speak.
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