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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 18, 2017 6:11:26 GMT
You're not wrong in the grand scheme of things. There's no putting the genie back in the bottle. Recurring revenue is a fact of life now and a part of the evolution of the video game business. However, that doesn't mean we just roll over and take it. The industry is still trying to find where the line is between tolerable mtx and intolerable mtx. EA clearly crossed the line with SWBF2, and future iterations from both EA and other companies will take that into account. Resistance has value in setting that line for the future. And while I think uproar and outrage has limited value compared to just voting with your feet and not paying for stuff you don't want (and, conversely, paying indie and niche developers for stuff you do want), if the uproar and outrage get otherwise ignorant consumers to not feed the recurring revenue beast, it's not pointless. Will industry periodically try to push the envelope and do things that cross the previously established line? Of course. As long as people are willing to pay more money, they will seek it. But it's not 100% bleak. There are alternatives and ways to defend the line against further encroachment, but it may mean becoming better informed about what's available in niche, AA, and indie spaces, and rewarding devs that differentiate themselves by either deferring introduction of mtx (no successful dev can avoid it forever) until they are too big to be niche any more, or pulling back to an even more conservative line than the one that's established, like, only cosmetic and QOL mtx, you get what you pay for -- no random shit, put a low cap on lifetime purchases to avoid the 50k kid, and some kind of 18+ age test. -(_ANTHEM_)-
It's quite possible that SWBF2 must preserve CANON. This leaves almost no room for cosmetic items. So how do they fill up random content in their LBs. Why, pictures of various combat troops and rebels in different poses. Add 30 different weapons in their hands and the same individual trooper could be seen in 30+ different poses. Add one hundred characters and you have 3,000 poses to be made available in LBs = many duplicates = useless shyte.
In SWBF2 case, you get a lot of random crap. In Anthem's case, I hope it has something similar to Path of Exile game. It's the least offensive, imo. One advantage that PoE has is a common storage chest where items inside can be used by different characters you create. Different classes get some item drops unique to them but also useless, However, that useless item can be very important to another class. Thus I roll different class characters to get the items I want, unless I go to the Exchange. It's one way of getting the player to "return" to the game.
An adult classification for games with MTs+LBs s is a good idea. Letting the industry self regulate is the most asinine idea yet. No company in a capital market will ever self regulate because of competition pressure and the need of their investors.
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The ESRB ratings ARE self-regulation?
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 18, 2017 12:42:21 GMT
The ESRB ratings ARE self-regulation? Yes, the organization is considered to be self-regulation since it was created by publishers and the system is completely voluntary.
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 18, 2017 12:58:28 GMT
The ESRB ratings ARE self-regulation? Yes, the organization is considered to be self-regulation since it was created by publishers and the system is completely voluntary. "Completely voluntary". Let's say there is some peer pressure, when unrated stuff doesn't get listed in the stores and doesn't sell as well.
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Post by Sartoz on Dec 18, 2017 13:09:47 GMT
The ESRB ratings ARE self-regulation? Yes, the organization is considered to be self-regulation since it was created by publishers and the system is completely voluntary. -(_ANTHEM_)-
LOL !
Forgive me for laughing. The ESRB reminds me of the news story found in a paper / on TV a few years ago. It was reported that all the appliance manufacturers had to do to get that coveted Energy Star Sticker was to call the EPA over the phone to get one.
Now, let talk about the ESRB. The ESRB just provides a Label. Period.
Please tell me how Bio (for example) gets the desired ESRB label. Do you believe the ESRB get the full game preview before launch to review the game for appropriateness? Or, does the organization take the word from Bio over the phone? Do you think the ESRB will play games to evaluate the "gambling" aspects of LBs? Wait! No,,, that the Gambling Commission responsibilities. Do you think the GC will preview games with LBs+MTs to see if the mechanics is equivalent to gambling? ... see where I'm going?
Self-regulation is an oxymoron. The temptation to push the envelope is an ever present danger. How effective was this self regulation ESRB body in protecting children from spending thousands of dollars playing online games?
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Merry★* 。 • ˚ ˚ ˛ ˚ ˛ • •。★Christmas★ 。* 。 ° 。 ° ˛˚˛ * _Π_____*。*˚ ˚ ˛ •˛•˚ */______/~\。˚ ˚ ˛ ˚ ˛ •˛• ˚ | 田田 |門| ˚And a happy new year!
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 18, 2017 14:26:08 GMT
Yes, the organization is considered to be self-regulation since it was created by publishers and the system is completely voluntary. -(_ANTHEM_)-
LOL !
Forgive me for laughing. The ESRB reminds me of the news story found in a paper / on TV a few years ago. It was reported that all the appliance manufacturers had to do to get that coveted Energy Star Sticker was to call the EPA over the phone to get one.
Now, let talk about the ESRB. The ESRB just provides a Label. Period.
Please tell me how Bio (for example) gets the desired ESRB label. Do you believe the ESRB get the full game preview before launch to review the game for appropriateness? Or, does the organization take the word from Bio over the phone? Do you think the ESRB will play games to evaluate the "gambling" aspects of LBs? Wait! No,,, that the Gambling Commission responsibilities. Do you think the GC will preview games with LBs+MTs to see if the mechanics is equivalent to gambling? ... see where I'm going?
Self-regulation is an oxymoron. The temptation to push the envelope is an ever present danger. How effective was this self regulation ESRB body in protecting children from spending thousands of dollars playing online games?
🌸
Merry★* 。 • ˚ ˚ ˛ ˚ ˛ • •。★Christmas★ 。* 。 ° 。 ° ˛˚˛ * _Π_____*。*˚ ˚ ˛ •˛•˚ */______/~\。˚ ˚ ˛ ˚ ˛ •˛• ˚ | 田田 |門| ˚And a happy new year! You read into what I was saying to a degree I don't understand. My comment was only that it was classified as self regulation due to the government not being in control of the organization. Nothing about what it does or the merits of what it does. I never said anything about how effective or how easy it is to complete or that it was completely infallible. To me the ESRB is just as effective as a grandstanding politician for that small handful of politicians that proclaimed they were bad for children have done nothing so far and frankly it takes a lot more then one politician that the internet agrees with to get anything done.
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 18, 2017 14:56:37 GMT
Sure, ESRB is self-regulating:
"As the video game industry's self-regulatory body, ESRB is responsible for the enforcement of its rating system. This includes everything from requiring complete disclosure of content during the rating process to the proper display of rating information on packaging and wherever the game is marketed or sold to compliance with industry-adopted advertising and marketing guidelines intended to ensure that video games are not marketed to audiences for whom they are not intended."
So they attempt to be a lightning rod that makes the games industry look as if it is behaving, but it's not an exact science with enforcement having pros and cons over both digital and physical distribution. Neither are perfect.
Actually, if a game publisher wants to push the line, they pretty much can:
"A ruling by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2011 (Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Association/Entertainment Software Association) found that video games are a constitutionally-protected form of expression, and that laws restricting their sale or rental based upon violent content are unconstitutional."
Enforcement appears to be more a matter of contract law than criminal law. Essentially for the industry to regulate itself sufficiently so that lawmakers do not decide to impose anything more onerous.
"the ESRB enforcement system allows for the imposition of harsh sanctions (e.g., fines up to $1 million, product recall, the stickering of product throughout all retail outlets) for instances of significant or egregious content non-disclosure. Less serious violations of ESRB content disclosure guidelines can result in the assignment of points, fines, and mandated corrective actions."
(extracts from ESRB site)
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 18, 2017 20:16:49 GMT
The ESRB ratings ARE self-regulation? Yes, the organization is considered to be self-regulation since it was created by publishers and the system is completely voluntary. But perhaps we should dwell as to why it was created? From wikipedia: "With the threat of federal regulations, a group of major video game developers and publishers, including Acclaim Entertainment and Electronic Arts along with Nintendo and Sega, formed a political trade group known as the Interactive Digital Software Association in April 1994, with a goal to create a self-regulatory framework for assessing and rating video games. While Sega had proposed that the industry use its VRC rating system, Nintendo representatives objected to the idea because they did not want to associate themselves with the work of their main competitor; instead, a vendor-neutral rating system known as the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) was developed. The formation of the ESRB was officially announced to Congress on July 29, 1994. The ESRB was officially launched on September 16, 1994; its system consisted of five age-based ratings; "Early Childhood", "Kids to Adults" (later renamed "Everyone" in 1998), "Teen", "Mature", and "Adults Only". The ESRB would also use "descriptors" with brief explanations of the content contained in a game."Usually the industry decides to self-regulate when there's a looming threat of federal regulations on the horizon. Basically, what we have here with mtx and loot-boxes.
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Post by Sartoz on Dec 19, 2017 6:25:46 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Hmm....
Gives us a possible insight on how Bio will play Anthem. Maybe all those writers are there to create the Lore along with background mission stories as in the first trailer. Yeah... I can play solo... same way I play solo in WoW, RIFT, PoE, and can also join guild or groups for raids. No need for a Single Player Campaign when online "monetization experiences" can rake the dough. 🌸
Merry★* 。 • ˚ ˚ ˛ ˚ ˛ • •。★Christmas★ 。* 。 ° 。 ° ˛˚˛ * _Π_____*。*˚ ˚ ˛ •˛•˚ */______/~\。˚ ˚ ˛ ˚ ˛ •˛• ˚ | 田田 |門| ˚And a happy new year!
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Post by PillarBiter on Dec 19, 2017 7:15:18 GMT
I wouldn't say casualty per se... Just that they saw an opportunity for more money and they grabbed it.
fitting DLC title, though.
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Post by majesticjazz on Dec 19, 2017 14:53:17 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Hmm....
Gives us a possible insight on how Bio will play Anthem. Maybe all those writers are there to create the Lore along with background mission stories as in the first trailer. Yeah... I can play solo... same way I play solo in WoW, RIFT, PoE, and can also join guild or groups for raids. No need for a Single Player Campaign when online "monetization experiences" can rake the dough. 🌸
Merry★* 。 • ˚ ˚ ˛ ˚ ˛ • •。★Christmas★ 。* 。 ° 。 ° ˛˚˛ * _Π_____*。*˚ ˚ ˛ •˛•˚ */______/~\。˚ ˚ ˛ ˚ ˛ •˛• ˚ | 田田 |門| ˚And a happy new year! Exactly I think a lot of people are over estimating the SP content of Anthem. I am not expecting a full fledged SP experience in Anthem the in the same manner as the MET or DA2/DAO.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 17:30:14 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Hmm....
Gives us a possible insight on how Bio will play Anthem. Maybe all those writers are there to create the Lore along with background mission stories as in the first trailer. Yeah... I can play solo... same way I play solo in WoW, RIFT, PoE, and can also join guild or groups for raids. No need for a Single Player Campaign when online "monetization experiences" can rake the dough. 🌸
Merry★* 。 • ˚ ˚ ˛ ˚ ˛ • •。★Christmas★ 。* 。 ° 。 ° ˛˚˛ * _Π_____*。*˚ ˚ ˛ •˛•˚ */______/~\。˚ ˚ ˛ ˚ ˛ •˛• ˚ | 田田 |門| ˚And a happy new year! Exactly I think a lot of people are over estimating the SP content of Anthem. I am not expecting a full fledged SP experience in Anthem the in the same manner as the MET or DA2/DAO. Yes, Inquisition-style is far more likely. It's basically a MMO without world-sharing with a few individual story instances.
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N6
∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
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Post by Heimdall on Dec 19, 2017 17:51:19 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Hmm....
Gives us a possible insight on how Bio will play Anthem. Maybe all those writers are there to create the Lore along with background mission stories as in the first trailer. Yeah... I can play solo... same way I play solo in WoW, RIFT, PoE, and can also join guild or groups for raids. No need for a Single Player Campaign when online "monetization experiences" can rake the dough. 🌸
Merry★* 。 • ˚ ˚ ˛ ˚ ˛ • •。★Christmas★ 。* 。 ° 。 ° ˛˚˛ * _Π_____*。*˚ ˚ ˛ •˛•˚ */______/~\。˚ ˚ ˛ ˚ ˛ •˛• ˚ | 田田 |門| ˚And a happy new year! Exactly I think a lot of people are over estimating the SP content of Anthem. I am not expecting a full fledged SP experience in Anthem the in the same manner as the MET or DA2/DAO. I mean I’m basically expecting something in the style of Inquisition and Andromeda myself, structurally anyways. So I guess my expectations are right where they should be.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Heimdall on Dec 19, 2017 18:09:34 GMT
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 19, 2017 18:16:12 GMT
I think a lot of people are over estimating the SP content of Anthem. I am not expecting a full fledged SP experience in Anthem the in the same manner as the MET or DA2/DAO. I don't expect any separate 'single player campaign'. I'm expecting one game experience that has been designed around doing it with other players (by some means) but that you can also do by yourself if you really want to. Whether doing it alone is significantly worse or just different to doing it with others, remains to be seen.
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Heimdall on Dec 19, 2017 18:19:44 GMT
I think a lot of people are over estimating the SP content of Anthem. I am not expecting a full fledged SP experience in Anthem the in the same manner as the MET or DA2/DAO. I don't expect any separate 'single player campaign'. I'm expecting one game experience that has been designed around doing it with other players (by some means) but that you can also do by yourself if you really want to. Whether doing it alone is significantly worse or just different to doing it with others, remains to be seen. I think it will have a single player campaign, I just don’t think it will be separate. Sort of like the class stories in SWTOR.
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 19, 2017 18:23:15 GMT
I think it will have a single player campaign, I just don’t think it will be separate. Sort of like the class stories in SWTOR. It will be fascinating finding out who is right / what it will be.. Pax East or E3 appear to be the favored 'reveal' dates...
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Dec 19, 2017 18:28:32 GMT
As for a SP, I believe the best case scenario will be something along the lines of Warframe, a bunch of shallow reasons to do missions.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 19, 2017 18:51:00 GMT
As for a SP, I believe the best case scenario will be something along the lines of Warframe, a bunch of shallow reasons to do missions. They already did state that they care about the story, so I don't see the reason why the whole game should just revolve around grinding gear or mats for gear. I'm curious though whether we're going to see some more procedurally generated stories, kinda like radiant quests in Skyrim, but perhaps more advanced. Heck, I'm wondering whether Anthem actually trolls everyone and instead of being whatever Destiny clone people think it's... actually a sci-fi remake of Neverwinter Nights, or specifically: its multiplayer and possibility for people to DM their own little stories within the game or use assets/modules to build their own little universes or levels, a bit like Doom SnapMap. That would be pretty neat.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 19, 2017 18:53:12 GMT
Well, if we look at the larger scale of things - they do. Probably the biggest change the digitization and Internet brought was that we increasingly stop associating the value of things based on whether they're physical or not.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 19, 2017 18:53:19 GMT
That's a relatively informative article in a sea of, frankly, shit. Worth a read. This part struck me most ( emphasis mine): In a recent episode of his Robot Congress podcast, prominent video game attorney Ryan Morrison was interviewing another lawyer, Marc Whipple, with experience in the gaming industry. Whipple said gambling, in “most jurisdictions,” was judged to be such if it had three critical elements: “Consideration, which means you have to pay something to play. Chance, which means there has to be something outside your control that determines the outcome of the game. And a prize. And of course, a prize is something, anything of value.”Everyone seems to be focusing on the money vs. value part, but there is a much easier fix for industry to get out of this whole mess -- stop making loot boxes random. Remove the RNG, make it you-get-what-you-pay-for and this whole problem goes away. Sure, that means they can't exploit addictive behavior that makes gamblers pay over and over and over again -- boo hoo, so they can only make a profit, instead of a monstrously obscene profit. And I'm going to make a prediction as to what industry will actually do: they will keep the RNG, and charge more for the "no RNG" version of the same lootbox. Kind of like how Ebay has the auction, or the buy it now at a higher price, option. Because greed has no bounds.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 19, 2017 18:59:39 GMT
Heck, I'm wondering whether Anthem actually trolls everyone and instead of being whatever Destiny clone people think it's... actually a sci-fi remake of Neverwinter Nights, or specifically: its multiplayer and possibility for people to DM their own little stories within the game or use assets/modules to build their own little universes or levels, a bit like Doom SnapMap. That would be pretty neat.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 19:47:15 GMT
As for a SP, I believe the best case scenario will be something along the lines of Warframe, a bunch of shallow reasons to do missions. They already did state that they care about the story, so I don't see the reason why the whole game should just revolve around grinding gear or mats for gear. I'm curious though whether we're going to see some more procedurally generated stories, kinda like radiant quests in Skyrim, but perhaps more advanced. Heck, I'm wondering whether Anthem actually trolls everyone and instead of being whatever Destiny clone people think it's... actually a sci-fi remake of Neverwinter Nights, or specifically: its multiplayer and possibility for people to DM their own little stories within the game or use assets/modules to build their own little universes or levels, a bit like Doom SnapMap. That would be pretty neat. I don't think mod-builder is going to happen. NWN2 Toolset variation was already way too hard to work in & required large teams to collaborate to create anything even remotely matching the game's quality, while playership for the mods steadily declined. After DAO, pretty much every subsequent bio game was more difficult to mod than its predecessor. So, yeah, I will not be surprised by any way they would handle SP element, but I will be hugely surprised if we receive the officially supported modmaking tools.
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Amirit
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Aug 16, 2016 17:49:54 GMT
August 2016
amirit
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Amirit on Dec 20, 2017 0:43:41 GMT
Some news: Hawaii's Chris Lee is back with an update on what he's been up to since announcing his concern over and possible legislation for loot boxes. It begins with a funny montage of his calls to other politicians around the country ("How did I send you an email if you don't have a PC?")
After that, Lee reveals what he's been up to including visiting a local university competition and other legislative endeavors.
The most interesting part comes at the end, however, when a list of states involved "in the conversation" is revealed: Connecticut, North Carolina, Minnesota, Georgia, Washington, and, of course, Hawaii.
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Elvis has left the building
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Gandalf the Fabulous
716
Oct 12, 2017 11:02:40 GMT
October 2017
gandalfthefabulous
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Post by Gandalf the Fabulous on Dec 20, 2017 4:25:09 GMT
Exactly I think a lot of people are over estimating the SP content of Anthem. I am not expecting a full fledged SP experience in Anthem the in the same manner as the MET or DA2/DAO. I mean I’m basically expecting something in the style of Inquisition and Andromeda myself, structurally anyways. So I guess my expectations are right where they should be. Personally I wouldn't get my hopes up, even expecting something akin to Inquisition or Andromeda would be setting yourself up for disappointment, personally I don't think this will be anything like any of Bioware's previous games, personally I would say Destiny or the Division is the model you probably should be looking at when trying to predict what this game might be like. Think more of a shared world, MMO-lite type experience where everyone rushes to the end content for phat loot and sick drops and story is merely an inconvenience in their way that everyone presses X to skip. I could be wrong and I hope I am wrong however it is pretty clear EA wants Bioware to shift away from the single player narrative focused games they built their name on and chase the successes of other more popular games that are easier to monetize. It is a game worth keeping an eye on but keep expectations low.
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