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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Dec 31, 2017 21:21:57 GMT
Explicit statement that RR will never be pay-to-win, with the possible exception of very limited grind "catch up" convenience. no, for the love of god NO! then the game's progression will be intentionally slowed down to a crawl so that you will be tempted to buy the goddamn micro transactions to speed it up. Case in point Shadow of War and it's insanely stupid act 4 gimmick. no, not only NO but HELL no! AND... let's make sure people can "grind" by replaying the campaign (assuming the game is gonna have one which at this point I am leaning towards not) instead of doing mindless open world activities which consist of doing the same thing over and over again but WITHOUT any awesome production value.
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Post by Sartoz on Dec 31, 2017 22:06:36 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Absolutely no MTs + lootboxes+ other random shyte. Here, I agree with dropzofcrimzon .
Any acceptance of progression MTs + lootboxes means that the game is fixated on this mechanic. It's "bad... very bad" as a certain prince of Orange would say. This means grind people.... for no other reason than to fill EA's coffers.
(1)
PoE offers the best mechanic in terms of MTs, imo. All are cosmetics. All items that you buy have specific prices subject to "Special sales". There is no random content. Basically, you buy points with real dollars. Use these points to buy specific items for a known price. No randomized shyte.
(2)
Another way is for EA to bump the base price to 80$ from 60$. But, you get the complete game. The advantage here, for EA, is that they get the money up front but with no in-game purchase crap. Though, I can't quite eliminate cosmetic purchasable items. But, but... no monthly access fees.
This 10 year life span is the "problem". EA's solution is a constant revenue stream. PoE has survived for years with their business model. Unfortunately, I believe EA's overlords are shooting for lots more revenue than what simple cosmetics and new maps can provide. 🌸
*´¨) ¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨) (¸.•´ (¸.•` ¤ Happy New Year!
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 5,993 Likes: 9,066
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 31, 2017 23:04:18 GMT
There will never be a moratorium like that for the first six months is when you have the most players for a game, so if they do have something like that lootboxes will be probably have a larger impact on the game to "make up" for those losses.
When I played PoE what they called microtransactions was DLC for the prices they were offering.
I agree with dropzofcrimzon as well, catchup mechanics as a service is garbage. Even with World of Warcraft I think they were exploiting a shitty leveling system from level 1 to 60 to make more money by charging $60 to level a character to the starting level of the current expansion.
Pay to win is so fluid to people I don't think they could make anyone happy with a system for they would just go looking for a reason to call it a P2W system to prove EA lied again.
BioWare has already implement the idea of a more restrictive lootbox with Mass Effect when you would pick the "character box" in Mass Effect, so I wouldn't rule something like that out.
As much as I like the idea to pay more for the game and not deal with microtransactions I doubt it will ever happen. To many people complain non-stop about game prices even before microtransactions and DLC. I also remember the outrage back when game prices went from $50 to $60 and that was before the way people react now to things they don't like.
In the end of the day, I just don't think there is going to be a system that both sides of the argument will find acceptable to what they want.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Dec 31, 2017 23:59:19 GMT
The problem is that with the existence of ANY MT That is not cosmetic then the games mechanics will always revolve around them to make sure you want to buy more and they will try to sleaze you as much as humanly possible
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jan 1, 2018 0:10:36 GMT
The problem is that with the existence of ANY MT That is not cosmetic then the games mechanics will always revolve around them to make sure you want to buy more and they will try to sleaze you as much as humanly possible Look, I get it. If you believe AAA devs in general or EA in particular can never have any self-restraint, sure, it's a lost cause. But there are counter-examples. Battlefield 4, an EA and DICE game, had a catch up progression DLC you could buy to unlock all the XP leveled weapons -- which was very useful for me, because I couldn't match the 40+ hours/week my clan put into the game. Rather than be a drag on the squad constantly being undergeared and underleveled, I bought the DLC. They also had lootboxes, but they were not essential to the FPS at all. I completely ignored the lootboxes and enjoyed the game just fine. If the progression was distorted or broken because of the mere existence of those things, I never noticed. So it's not like it's automatic: if EA then maximum greed, maximum corruption of gameplay to suit RR. Sure, chances are slim that they'd even think about some kind of compromise, but I don't believe the chances are 0 either. And this doesn't mean I think EA is innocent or anything like that. Certainly, everyone involved with the SWBF2 debacle is a greedy SOB, no question. But EA is a big company and whoever fucked up SWBF2 might not have anything to do with Anthem.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jan 1, 2018 0:30:00 GMT
The problem is that with the existence of ANY MT That is not cosmetic then the games mechanics will always revolve around them to make sure you want to buy more and they will try to sleaze you as much as humanly possible Look, I get it. If you believe AAA devs in general or EA in particular can never have any self-restraint, sure, it's a lost cause. But there are counter-examples. Battlefield 4, an EA and DICE game, had a catch up progression DLC you could buy to unlock all the XP leveled weapons -- which was very useful for me, because I couldn't match the 40+ hours/week my clan put into the game. Rather than be a drag on the squad constantly being undergeared and underleveled, I bought the DLC. They also had lootboxes, but they were not essential to the FPS at all. I completely ignored the lootboxes and enjoyed the game just fine. If the progression was distorted or broken because of the mere existence of those things, I never noticed. So it's not like it's automatic: if EA then maximum greed, maximum corruption of gameplay to suit RR. Sure, chances are slim that they'd even think about some kind of compromise, but I don't believe the chances are 0 either. And this doesn't mean I think EA is innocent or anything like that. Certainly, everyone involved with the SWBF2 debacle is a greedy SOB, no question. But EA is a big company and whoever fucked up SWBF2 might not have anything to do with Anthem. uh...stop, take a step back, listen to yourself. A PUBLISHER tells a developer to implement MT. The principle behind MTs if they are not solely cosmetic is make more money as often as possible. To follow that principle one needs to make UNPALATABLE for the average player to progress normally and/or impossible to obtain something without said MT. The fact YOU used them and made it feel convenient is PART OF THE PROBLEM. That is how they are MEANT to feel, that is how they drag you in. EA HAS DONE IT ALREADY. Are you blind? They even flat out said "oh hey, we know we pissed you off and for now, to avoid Disney pegging us with a spike coveted strap on for ruining the name of their property, we are gonna drop it but we are gonna start up again as soon as the dust Settles. Others publishers did it too...it NEVER turns out well And you want them to keep going? FUCK THAT. Play Darksiders 2. Loot based open world game, no MTs at all and hell it even had loot gifting...THAT is how the fucking game should be
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 1, 2018 1:36:48 GMT
The problem is that with the existence of ANY MT That is not cosmetic then the games mechanics will always revolve around them to make sure you want to buy more and they will try to sleaze you as much as humanly possible Look, I get it. If you believe AAA devs in general or EA in particular can never have any self-restraint, sure, it's a lost cause. But there are counter-examples. Battlefield 4, an EA and DICE game, had a catch up progression DLC you could buy to unlock all the XP leveled weapons -- which was very useful for me, because I couldn't match the 40+ hours/week my clan put into the game. Rather than be a drag on the squad constantly being undergeared and underleveled, I bought the DLC. They also had lootboxes, but they were not essential to the FPS at all. I completely ignored the lootboxes and enjoyed the game just fine. If the progression was distorted or broken because of the mere existence of those things, I never noticed. So it's not like it's automatic: if EA then maximum greed, maximum corruption of gameplay to suit RR. Sure, chances are slim that they'd even think about some kind of compromise, but I don't believe the chances are 0 either. And this doesn't mean I think EA is innocent or anything like that. Certainly, everyone involved with the SWBF2 debacle is a greedy SOB, no question. But EA is a big company and whoever fucked up SWBF2 might not have anything to do with Anthem. The problem with a lot of lootboxes is that it is very easy for people to look at it with it being greedy. Even the system you suggested people will say that EA/Dice deliberately slowed down the progression of weapons so they can sucker people like you into buying them. Right now I am giving BioWare the benefit of the doubt when it comes to microtransactions, for the system they used for Mass Effect 3 and Andromeda is the only one where I didn't have a nagging thought about something being changed to encourage people to pay for boxes. Since it only felt slow on Bronze difficulty, the rest of the time I was okay with the rate I was earning boxes.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 1, 2018 13:21:59 GMT
The problem is that with the existence of ANY MT That is not cosmetic then the games mechanics will always revolve around them to make sure you want to buy more and they will try to sleaze you as much as humanly possible What if they used a mechanism identical to Mass Effect 3 MP? A model that was highly successful?
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 1, 2018 14:03:11 GMT
What if they used a mechanism identical to Mass Effect 3 MP? A model that was highly successful? ME3MP was a horrible grindfest, whether the model was financially successful or not says very little in regards to whether it was exploitative and annoying. It simply came before enough people realized what this model is all about.
Hell, compared to BF2, I'm not sure the progression system is any less fucked. You could say that ME3 was a test-run of the BF2 LB system. I suspect that the main difference is that ME3 had a dozens of hours of SP content that allowed you to ignore the MP aspect if you weren't interested in it or its design.
I'm not posing MEMP's model as aspirational. It did, however, operate for many years without raising petitions or outrage (other than forum RNG grumbling). I agree about the grind (I never maxed despite 1,000 hours) yet I preferred it to DAI and MEA's MP methodology (though all 3 are similar). I wonder whether the SWBFII debacle has actually moved the line of player 'acceptance' backwards from where it was in 2012.
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Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
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Post by correctamundo on Jan 1, 2018 14:13:13 GMT
The problem is that with the existence of ANY MT That is not cosmetic then the games mechanics will always revolve around them to make sure you want to buy more and they will try to sleaze you as much as humanly possible What if they used a mechanism identical to Mass Effect 3 MP? A model that was highly successful? Probably because people didn't know any better then. They more or less copy/pasted it to MEAMP and for some odd reason MP afficionados whine about it in MEA. Even though that same group proclaimed that all BioWare had to do to be succesful was to copy/paste ME3MP. Go figure. ![:rollseyes:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/REgZYyBzEWbCtxSFrroj.gif) I like PoE but that game is f2p and MTs are purely cosmetic/qol. I have payed for inventory basically because I do want to support the devs. But some people back any expansion that comes along for a humongous amount of real money. I fully expect GGG to have an increased hunger for cash in the future, like any other company out there. My preference would of course be to finance it all with story expansion and let all loot be found/or bought for in game currency. That goes for Javelins as well. No MTs, no "creation clubs" (wtf?). WYSIWYG.
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Post by Sartoz on Jan 1, 2018 14:40:53 GMT
The problem is that with the existence of ANY MT That is not cosmetic then the games mechanics will always revolve around them to make sure you want to buy more and they will try to sleaze you as much as humanly possible What if they used a mechanism identical to Mass Effect 3 MP? A model that was highly successful? -(_ANTHEM_)-
Hmm... Call ME3MP a LB progression system by another name.
Sure low level characters were easy to get and so was leveling them up. Rare and Ultra rare characters are another story. Same for weapons. A 2-8% chance of getting something worthwhile is a slug fest. Besides, while I slugged some players already had top characters and gear = paid to get. Now, I don't mind that ... much but I'm limited to Bronze and Silver play. Since I have no interest in Leader Boards or Achievement Medals and absolutely no desire to pay more for such frivolities.... I lived with it.
Sixty dollars (ME3) just buys me half the game. Having played "half the the progression" relatively easy the game comes to a screeching snail pace attempting to get into the remaining half = "hey dude with more spending I can make your life easier".
I'd rather pay 80$ and get the whole game.
Anthem, with MTs and LBs cooked into it, is a game where we play MP all the time with the proviso I can play solo as well. Notice the dev mentioned solo and absolutely nothing about SP. In this scenario, I believe solo play is a grind and not fun to play after one reaches a certain level.
Thing is, I believe that a game must give the player "enough fun time" and "personal achievement" without the heavy grind. That a trading system allows players to buy/trade with each other items of "value" which bypasses the grind or the wait to get all the necessary crafting material. The game must have a solid economy with currency items ( IE: weapons, blueprints, armour, boosters, crafting material) and vendor recipes that allows upgrading your gear. Maybe Anthem has different starting FORTS = Hard core, Medium, Easy, Temporary ones to allow Bio to tweak / add new stuff.
It all boils down to: (1) How greedy is EA? (2) Progression mechanics that don't pizz people off. (3) Keeping player interest.
(4) Fun and easy to play. (5) Reliable bug free (ie: no main snags) game.
(6) Allow a "small" exploit or two that gives the player the feeling of "F...k u" EA/Bio. 🌸
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Amirit on Jan 1, 2018 15:03:20 GMT
There will never be a moratorium like that for the first six months is when you have the most players for a game, so if they do have something like that lootboxes will be probably have a larger impact on the game to "make up" for those losses. Oh, we know plenty examples of that! When MMORPG switches to Free-to-play. It might work with a singleplay too, but in case of Anthem we already have an MP game (with a a possibility of a small SP campaign), so, selling game first (without MT) than in half a year handing it for free but with MT at every corner might work quite well, actually.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jan 1, 2018 16:23:54 GMT
The problem is that with the existence of ANY MT That is not cosmetic then the games mechanics will always revolve around them to make sure you want to buy more and they will try to sleaze you as much as humanly possible What if they used a mechanism identical to Mass Effect 3 MP? A model that was highly successful? you can't do that in a persistent world game where MP and SP are tied together (which is also what scares me about the campaign being a soul less pointless destiny 1-like affair).
now IF the two were separated ENTIRELY then yeah sure....but this is totally not happening and you know it because EA wants its precious Destiny clone
it's either only cosmetics or don't do it at all
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 1, 2018 16:48:08 GMT
it's either only cosmetics or don't do it at all I'm not convinced that's going to happen, but we'll see I guess...
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jan 1, 2018 17:09:42 GMT
it's either only cosmetics or don't do it at all I'm not convinced that's going to happen, but we'll see I guess... of course it is not!
EA wants to scam every penny they can outta you
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USN-Retired
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: mmoblitz
PSN: NotPC
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Post by mmoblitz on Jan 2, 2018 12:09:19 GMT
EA wants mobile game money for their full price games. There is really only one way they are going to get that...
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N3
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 460 Likes: 594
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Post by Amirit on Jan 5, 2018 11:33:38 GMT
Was it discussed already?
Bungie Rebooted Destiny 2 Development Halfway & Felt Making Content Was Too Hard (about "games as a service" and MTs)
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Post by PillarBiter on Jan 5, 2018 13:02:32 GMT
Was it discussed already? Bungie Rebooted Destiny 2 Development Halfway & Felt Making Content Was Too Hard (about "games as a service" and MTs) Goodness gracious. My oh my. Slap me silly and call me Sally.
Those are some juicy facts right there.
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Post by Sartoz on Jan 5, 2018 13:03:31 GMT
Was it discussed already? Bungie Rebooted Destiny 2 Development Halfway & Felt Making Content Was Too Hard (about "games as a service" and MTs) Snip video -(_ANTHEM_)-
Hmph!
Will Bio fall prey to the easy drip-drip Anthem content development? Ten years of "game-as-a-service" implies a Bungie solution temptation.
This story is another nail in the coffin that game developers are guilty until they prove themselves innocent...
🌸
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jan 5, 2018 20:39:47 GMT
Was it discussed already? Bungie Rebooted Destiny 2 Development Halfway & Felt Making Content Was Too Hard (about "games as a service" and MTs) what did I just say in another thread?
the very first evidence that Bungie is just too dumb for this kind of game was the way they snuck in a system to downgrade your loot upon decryption in order to "give the player an extra thrill"...(read make sure it takes forever to get good gear)
and that was THEIR idea...not activision's
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Post by biggydx on Jan 6, 2018 5:23:12 GMT
The absolute best scenario I see being possible is that the cosmetics are limited to color schemes, decals, emblems, skins, and emotes; all of which can still be obtained through completing specific activities. They're still things people will want to get, so it may still run into issues.
EDIT: Also, I'm surprised so many people are being vocal about Jason Schreiers article about the series getting a reboot. It was already detailed back in early 2016 about Luke Smith taking over and Destiny being rebooted; which was also made by Jason Schreier.
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mmoblitz
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Post by mmoblitz on Jan 6, 2018 11:53:53 GMT
I guess we can all thank WB, Activision, and EA for bring to the light the often shady practices that go on in many games published under them and just about any publisher that puts out a game that contains LB/MTX. Many of us already knew about it, but now even more of the casual and non-gamers are aware of it.
I believe the games that really brought it to the forefront are D2, SWBF2, and SoW. I don't remember seeing any of those games as nominees in any pf the multiple gaming awards that are done each year. Even in the GDC Awards are none of those games nominated by their peers. Punished by both gamers and devs alike.
I hope gamers keep the pressure on through 2018.
Edit: To add, I know Overwatch has LB and many other games, but I think it comes down to how it's implemented and perhaps other factors. I'm not so sure if Overwatch was released now that it wouldn't be scrutinized more so.
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 6, 2018 13:57:49 GMT
I guess we can all thank WB, Activision, and EA for bring to the light the often shady practices that go on in many games published under them and just about any publisher that puts out a game that contains LB/MTX. Many of us already knew about it, but now even more of the casual and non-gamers are aware of it. I believe the games that really brought it to the forefront are D2, SWBF2, and SoW. I don't remember seeing any of those games as nominees in any pf the multiple gaming awards that are done each year. Even in the GDC Awards are none of those games nominated by their peers. Punished by both gamers and devs alike. I hope gamers keep the pressure on through 2018. Edit: To add, I know Overwatch has LB and many other games, but I think it comes down to how it's implemented and perhaps other factors. I'm not so sure if Overwatch was released now that it wouldn't be scrutinized more so. I have very low opinion that anything is a real indicator of anything unless it costs the studios money. The Transformers movies I think are a good comparison for critics and people on the internet would rail against those movies and they would still make a billion dollars worldwide. Now with the last one it did make less money, but was it really the outrage machine or just people wanting something new? Going by the published predictions by analysts Battlefront 2 might still be a bigger seller then Battlefront 1, for initially it was projected by industry analysts that it would sell around 14 million copies and it was lowered to 12 million with the controversy, but if I recall correctly it is estimated that Battlefront 1 sold 10 million copies. Unlike the example that I gave above with Transformers EA does make changes based on the reaction to their products so it could nullify the "we know what is going to happen". I guess it really boils down that things dealing with gaming have left me jaded and I really don't think all the conversation will really do anything because going by the trends nothing really changes. Just watching several issues over the last couple of years the inconsistency of how players react to me indicates there won't be change because the severity of the problem changes based on who is involved.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jan 6, 2018 20:02:41 GMT
EDIT: Also, I'm surprised so many people are being vocal about Jason Schreiers article about the series getting a reboot. It was already detailed back in early 2016 about Luke Smith taking over and Destiny being rebooted; which was also made by Jason Schreier. It's not the reboot that is getting attention now, it's the accusation/meme that Bungie had sole responsibility for instigating the Eververse, and Activision's only part in that was saying, "Okay."
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jan 6, 2018 20:10:39 GMT
Going by the published predictions by analysts Battlefront 2 might still be a bigger seller then Battlefront 1, for initially it was projected by industry analysts that it would sell around 14 million copies and it was lowered to 12 million with the controversy, but if I recall correctly it is estimated that Battlefront 1 sold 10 million copies. To me, when it comes to greed, it's never a mistake to bet on cynicism. But, there's a chance the SWBF2 situation might be an exception. We'll know soon enough. If Christmas/December sales put SWBF2 back on track for 14m, you're right and EA wins. If sales are below the 12m trend line, or even better, flat or negative, there's hope for consumer activism yet. Comparison to SWBF1 is neither here nor there, as far as Wall Street is concerned. They never care about what you did before, only what you do in the next quarter. It's also an apples/oranges comparison since the Greed was weaker in old Luke Skywalker then. Also, didn't SWBF1 come out before Lucas became Disney? I still maintain the opinion that Disney was a co-conspirator in all the greed that went down.
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