ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Mar 3, 2018 17:25:22 GMT
There isn't just two options, cosmetic or predatory level loot boxes. If they hadn't gone over the top with how hard it is to earn in game, likely this never would have become a issue. Or if your just bought Luke or whatever as opposed to random packs, again no problem. EA brought this on themselves.
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Post by majesticjazz on Mar 3, 2018 17:59:40 GMT
EA being cautious after BFII? I doubt it, if anything they are doing what they wanted to Battlefront 2. The only word that EA has said publicly about Battlefront 2 was that they couldn't do cosmetic items because of "lore reasons" and Disney definitely has a stick up the backdoor when it comes to making sure the lore is never violated. At least according to what Polgyon has posted about a conference call. Polygon LinkConference Call - Audio Link onlyWith those statements to me it just feels like EA's hands were tied and I doubt Disney is as innocent as people want them to be. They care about maximizing profit over anything else and I am not sure if they would want to lose profits if microtransactions weren't in the game until they feared it might have an impact on The Last Jedi. With the Last Jedi I will bet its a lot more profitable for them since instead of tens of million of dollars it could be hundreds of millions of dollars of profit at risk. It sounds like EA is about to re-implement lootboxes to Battlefront 2 as well so Disney isn't completely against them either. So in other words you are saying it is Disney that is to blame for BF2, not EA? It was Disney's idea to tie player progression to loot boxes? Also, Disney has no influence over Madden and FIFA, so whats the justification over the Ultimate team stuff? It appears to me that you just want to defend EA at all cost and remove them of any responsibility or influence that they have in the industry or over their developers.
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Post by SofaJockey on Mar 3, 2018 18:54:07 GMT
So in other words you are saying it is Disney that is to blame for BF2, not EA? It was Disney's idea to tie player progression to loot boxes? Also, Disney has no influence over Madden and FIFA, so whats the justification over the Ultimate team stuff? It appears to me that you just want to defend EA at all cost and remove them of any responsibility or influence that they have in the industry or over their developers. We can all read what Sanunes said. If you rephrase it into different words, then that wasn't what was said, was it?
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Post by samhain444 on Mar 3, 2018 20:28:54 GMT
So in other words you are saying it is Disney that is to blame for BF2, not EA? It was Disney's idea to tie player progression to loot boxes? Also, Disney has no influence over Madden and FIFA, so whats the justification over the Ultimate team stuff? It appears to me that you just want to defend EA at all cost and remove them of any responsibility or influence that they have in the industry or over their developers. We can all read what Sanunes said. If you rephrase it into different words, then that wasn't what was said, was it? Consider the source...
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Mar 4, 2018 2:04:21 GMT
With those statements to me it just feels like EA's hands were tied and I doubt Disney is as innocent as people want them to be.People may want Disney to be innocent, but anyone with a brain knows they are far from it. This is all sensible. The issue I have with your tack here is that there is an assumption that Disney is assumed to be a "good" company. Walt Disney was a fucking psycho.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 4, 2018 4:38:02 GMT
With those statements to me it just feels like EA's hands were tied and I doubt Disney is as innocent as people want them to be.People may want Disney to be innocent, but anyone with a brain knows they are far from it. This is all sensible. The issue I have with your tack here is that there is an assumption that Disney is assumed to be a "good" company. Walt Disney was a fucking psycho. What I was trying to imply was that Disney could be viewed as the "good" side because they stopped the lootboxes over EA forcing them out, not that they are the good company all the time.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 4, 2018 5:13:17 GMT
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Mar 4, 2018 17:59:44 GMT
I doubt Disney is as innocent as people want them to be. The delicious irony of all this is that some people were hating on EA so hard that, in comparison, Disney was the hero of the story. Disney, the widely recognized Evil Empire of the media world, the hero of a story about greed! I can't stop laughing about that. It's a funny old world.
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Post by majesticjazz on Mar 4, 2018 18:31:57 GMT
I doubt Disney is as innocent as people want them to be. The delicious irony of all this is that some people were hating on EA so hard that, in comparison, Disney was the hero of the story. Disney, the widely recognized Evil Empire of the media world, the hero of a story about greed! I can't stop laughing about that. It's a funny old world. So by displaying that Disney is a greedy company somehow puts EA off the hook? All you are proving is that BOTH EA and Disney are greedy companies that will do shady things to make a buck. So how does this help Anthem's cause?
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Mar 4, 2018 18:32:19 GMT
^^^ Yep, in the business we call it, "working for the Rat". They are a royal PITA and cheeeeeeap
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Post by Pounce de León on Mar 5, 2018 10:33:45 GMT
EA being cautious after BFII? Hmm, Battlefield 1 pretty much had cosmetics only (when I still played - that was before any DLC dropped - no idea what happened since then).
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Post by SofaJockey on Mar 5, 2018 11:38:23 GMT
Game studios do seem to be looking for a sweet spot... - Sufficient monetization to enhance their profits.
- Not to annoy their customers too much (to the point of backlash)
I'm seeing people like Ubisoft treading that line fairly successfully (Assassin's Creed Origins being an example) as they make more money from 'live services' than from selling their games.
For Ubisoft specifically, it might also be that their fight with Vivendi deters them from doing anything too predatory for the sake of PR.
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Post by Pounce de León on Mar 5, 2018 11:56:38 GMT
Game studios do seem to be looking for a sweet spot... - Sufficient monetization to enhance their profits.
- Not to annoy their customers too much (to the point of backlash)
I'm seeing people like Ubisoft treading that line fairly successfully (Assassin's Creed Origins being an example) as they make more money from 'live services' than from selling their games.
For Ubisoft specifically, it might also be that their fight with Vivendi deters them from doing anything too predatory for the sake of PR.
Does AC have microtransactions?
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Post by SofaJockey on Mar 5, 2018 13:14:09 GMT
Does AC have microtransactions? It does. I'll detail it because the categories are interesting. The first category is 'time savers' (for people who want stuff 'now' rather than play the game.) - Maps to collectible items
- Packs of crafting resources
- Packs of in-game currency
- Packs of level-up skill points
Basically, you could throw $40 in and get 'First Game +', going into the game with a leveled and cash-rich character with easy map links to key stuff. Or you could throw $10 in and just have the game a little easier. Imagine how DAI could have done this, buy power points, ability points, map to bottles, packs of Elfroot and Fade-touched materials. But all optional. The second category is 'gear', which is basically
It's not all cosmetic, there might be a particular weapon with a combination of features you like. None of it is essential, some of it is pretty whacky, some of it is fan service, all of it can be obtained in-game randomly from the merchant. And don't forget this is a single-player game, so there's no pay-to-win. I had no particular interest in time savers, but as these aren't predatory microtransactions I did splash out on a precursor horse armor and shield to go with the precursor outfit I'd worked hard to obtain in-game. So I spent $7 for some fun... That compares with the pretty poor 'Spoils of the ...' costume packs in DAI. The key lesson is that Ubisoft have included microtransactions in a single player game, but without them feeling overly greedy and genuinely optional.
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Post by Pounce de León on Mar 5, 2018 13:15:38 GMT
Does AC have microtransactions? It does. I'll detail it because the categories are interesting. The first category is 'time savers' (for people who want stuff 'now' rather than play the game.) - Maps to collectible items
- Packs of crafting resources
- Packs of in-game currency
- Packs of level-up skill points
Basically, you could throw $40 in and get 'First Game +', going into the game with a leveled and cash-rich character with easy map links to key stuff. Or you could throw $10 in and just have the game a little easier. Imagine how DAI could have done this, buy power points, ability points, map to bottles, packs of Elfroot and Fade-touched materials. But all optional. The second category is 'gear', which is basically
It's not all cosmetic, there might be a particular weapon with a combination of features you like. None of it is essential, some of it is pretty whacky, some of it is fan service, all of it can be obtained in-game randomly from the merchant. And don't forget this is a single-player game, so there's no pay-to-win. I had no particular interest in time savers, but as these aren't predatory microtransactions I did splash out on a precursor horse armor and shield to go with the precursor outfit I'd worked hard to obtain in-game. So I spent $7 for some fun... That compares with the pretty poor 'Spoils of the ...' costume packs in DAI. The key lesson is that Ubisoft have included microtransactions in a single player game, but without them feeling overly greedy and genuinely optional. Dafuq? Why would anyone pay for cheats? I don't get it.
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Post by SofaJockey on Mar 5, 2018 13:18:43 GMT
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Post by Pounce de León on Mar 5, 2018 13:20:11 GMT
Dafuq? Why would anyone pay for cheats? I don't get it. Nevertheless, a sufficient number clearly do... It's probably more convenient than looking them up on der internets.
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Post by Pounce de León on Mar 5, 2018 13:21:53 GMT
I kinda view that MT in SP thing sceptical. I just see the risk of tweaking the gameplay to not focus on the fun but rather on the revenue.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 5,993 Likes: 9,066
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 5, 2018 14:29:00 GMT
Game studios do seem to be looking for a sweet spot... - Sufficient monetization to enhance their profits.
- Not to annoy their customers too much (to the point of backlash)
I'm seeing people like Ubisoft treading that line fairly successfully (Assassin's Creed Origins being an example) as they make more money from 'live services' than from selling their games.
For Ubisoft specifically, it might also be that their fight with Vivendi deters them from doing anything too predatory for the sake of PR.
It might not be predatory, but what they did with the last Ubisoft game I purchased was insulting to me at the least. So to explain it Ubisoft has a premium currency to buy things from the in-game store. Just like any premium currency you can earn it in game by finding random things that popup while you play for 10 points or completing in-game challenges which are pretty much a grind. Now you can buy maps to find the collectibles in the game from most NPCs aside from two and those two can only be purchased with premium currency. The problem for me arrises when the items you find in the game that can be found with the maps that are purchased with the standard game currency have a much larger detection radius then the items that have the maps that can only be discovered with the premium game currency. I think its at least a 20:1 ratio on the detection radius. One of the premium currency map items the music boxes the detection range was so small you were nearly in the "interact" range when it would popup on your map. Ubisoft has done some things for bad PR recently as well. They announced that they were increasing the base price for Rainbow Six Siege by 50% and adding lootboxes to the game two years after release while Ghost Recon Wildlands was getting lootboxes about a year after its release. I think they have dropped the idea of the price increase for Rainbow Six Siege, but the lootboxes will remain. It just didn't seem to catch on to the major coverage. Edit: The last Ubisoft game I bought was Assassin's Creed: Syndicate.
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Post by Pounce de León on Mar 5, 2018 14:34:11 GMT
Good Lord, I hope they will spare the Anno game with this shit.
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Post by SofaJockey on Mar 5, 2018 15:34:10 GMT
The problem for me arrises when the items you find in the game that can be found with the maps that are purchased with the standard game currency have a much larger detection radius then the items that have the maps that can only be discovered with the premium game currency. I think its at least a 20:1 ratio on the detection radius. One of the premium currency map items the music boxes the detection range was so small you were nearly in the "interact" range when it would popup on your map. In Syndicate: Because you could find (enough) small amounts of premium currency (Helix) in-game, I 'spent' that on those two maps. Once 'bought' in one playthrough they remained accessible for further playthroughs. Good Lord, I hope they will spare the Anno game with this shit. IF it were done in Anthem in the non-predatory way I've described above, it would not trouble me.
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 5, 2018 16:56:09 GMT
In Syndicate: Because you could find (enough) small amounts of premium currency (Helix) in-game, I 'spent' that on those two maps. Once 'bought' in one playthrough they remained accessible for further playthroughs. I agree, I would up earning enough eventually to unlock those maps if I desired to do so. To me its more about how those type different types of purchases had their in-game detection reduced on what seems to be payment methods. If they were the same it wouldn't have bothered me the same way. It just felt like a way to take advantage of a aspect of their consumer base.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Mar 5, 2018 22:01:14 GMT
So by displaying that Disney is a greedy company somehow puts EA off the hook? All you are proving is that BOTH EA and Disney are greedy companies that will do shady things to make a buck. Mission accomplished! I thought the whole, "Good Disney made bad EA stop being greedy," narrative was laughable. That's all I was saying. You ought to get on all those folks letting Disney off the hook, since you seem to care about accountability so much. How does this save Anthem? Beats me, that wasn't my point. I guess, Anthem is helped by virtue of not being a Disney IP? At least, that's one less thing to worry about. It still comes from EA, though.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Mar 5, 2018 22:08:23 GMT
Dafuq? Why would anyone pay for cheats? I don't get it. I don't get the moral equation you're implying. Are you saying cheats are okay if you don't pay for them? What exactly in SofaJockey's list counts as a cheat in the first place? Most of those things, like a map to all collectibles, is on the same spectrum as asking why would anyone play on Easy mode? Is Easy mode a cheat? Is looking up walkthroughs and wikis on a game cheating? Speaking of which, the map purchase does seem like a waste of money, assuming someone will write up a wiki page eventually, for free.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Mar 5, 2018 22:13:45 GMT
I kinda view that MT in SP thing sceptical. I just see the risk of tweaking the gameplay to not focus on the fun but rather on the revenue. Yup. And with their tendencies, it's basically inevitable that said tweaking would occur. Agreed. All the noise about protecting children by regulating lootboxes misses the point. The real risk is the above, that gameplay will be perverted to extract more recurring revenue. This disease is already endemic in the mobile free2play space, and it's spreading to AAA (Destiny).
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