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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2017 20:53:01 GMT
From all my years of lurking and posting on the various iterations of the BioWare forums and other boards that have hosted Mass Effect discussion topics, I have come to the conclusion that this fanbase has the mindset of "everything new sucks" and that it is never happy with anything nor will it ever be.
After every new installment of the ME franchise, the general consensus of the "fans" is that the latest game is the worst. When a new game comes out, said game that was previously the worst is now pretty much universally loved or, at the very least, the majority opinion is quite positive.
I have witnessed this phenomenon when ME2, 3, and Andromeda released and in retrospect discussions (ME:A is TBA in this regard as not enough time has passed).
Upon ME2's release, all I heard where gripes and complaints and how EA had "ruined" Mass Effect. Upon ME3's release, we had the REEEEEEEEEEEtatsrophy over the ending and all of the cringey shit that went along with that outrage and again, EA had "ruined" Mass Effect. Now ME:A is out and I again hear the usual "OMG ITZ TEH WURST GUISE!!!!1" and more "EA has ruined Mass Effect."
The first game is the only one that seems to have received universal praise and continues to, despite the fact that it is a nightmare to actually play and fails at being the slightest bit fun.
It leads me to come to the conclusion that the fanbase is extremely change resistant and take the "everything new sucks" attitude to heart.
Is that all RPG gamers, incredibly nitpicky and never satisfied? Or is this just unique to the BW "fan" base? Or do I just not "get it" due to me being primarily a competitive online sorta gamer?
Really, I'm baffled at the attitude. It makes the phrase "Mass Effect fan" seem like an oxymoron and frankly, I'm a little put off.
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Post by Psychevore on Oct 31, 2017 21:14:42 GMT
I call it the Baldur's Gate 2 syndrome.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Oct 31, 2017 21:19:25 GMT
Dissatisfied customers are vocal, satisfied customers are quiet. Feedback in any industry is almost always more negative than positive because people only bother to speak up when they want something changed.
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Post by river82 on Oct 31, 2017 21:20:36 GMT
Depends which section of fans you talk to. That people like and hate different editions of the series has to do with the different editions of the series being drastically different to one another, similar to Dragon Age and how Origins, 2, and Inquisition are all drastically different to one another. Normally a gaming series tends to appeal to a similar fanbase, but Bioware are unique in that different games of the series appeal to different fanbases.
The general consensus about Mass Effect 1 is that it is the worst game, but the best RPG. It's very unpolished, there's numerous technical faults, the economy is incredibly broken (which is why it was abandoned in future games,) the combat is horrible but based on stats so very "RPG", the exploration is dull and frustrating (which is why it was abandoned in future games.) That being said, compared with ME2 and its glorified recruitment drive, it had a top story, and it also had meaningful stats.
Mass Effect 2 was a better game than Mass Effect 1, yet it was the worst RPG of the series. It was merely a corridor shooter where the combat no longer relied on stats and the story was about hopping from place to place recruiting people (dull.) That being said the gameplay was quite polished and the characters started to really come into their own. Tali became quite interesting, Liara became more interesting, and the same could be said of Garrus.
Mass Effect 3 was the best and most polished game of the series, but was brought down by a crappy ending. RPG wise it sits between 1 and 2. I have only heard that this game was the worst of the series from one person, and that person hadn't actually played the whole series.
So while there was incredibly disappointment surrounding number 3, I don't see how it could be (and I haven't heard many people say it was) the worst of the series. That Mass Effect 2 was worse than Mass Effect 1 depended on who you talked to. That it steered the ME series away from an RPG and toward a corridor shooter with a poor story could lead some people to conclude that EA was indeed ruining the series.
Andromeda ... what a shitstorm that was, ey? I have no problem with people being disappointed in this game. To me it wrestles with Mass Effect 1 as the worst game of the series, and unlike ME1 it can't lay claim to the best "RPG" either.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2017 21:24:06 GMT
Dissatisfied customers are vocal, satisfied customers are quiet. Feedback in any industry is almost always more negative than positive because people only bother to speak up when they want something changed. By that logic, ME has only been getting worse, which is assuredly not the case. Agree fully with the rest of your point, though.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2017 21:32:42 GMT
Depends which section of fans you talk to. That people like and hate different editions of the series has to do with the different editions of the series being drastically different to one another, similar to Dragon Age and how Origins, 2, and Inquisition are all drastically different to one another. Normally a gaming series tends to appeal to a similar fanbase, but Bioware are unique in that different games of the series appeal to different fanbases. The general consensus about Mass Effect 1 is that it is the worst game, but the best RPG. It's very unpolished, there's numerous technical faults, the economy is incredibly broken (which is why it was abandoned in future games,) the combat is horrible but based on stats so very "RPG", the exploration is dull and frustrating (which is why it was abandoned in future games.) That being said, compared with ME2 and its glorified recruitment drive, it had a top story, and it also had meaningful stats. Mass Effect 2 was a better game than Mass Effect 1, yet it was the worst RPG of the series. It was merely a corridor shooter where the combat no longer relied on stats and the story was about hopping from place to place recruiting people (dull.) That being said the gameplay was quite polished and the characters started to really come into their own. Tali became quite interesting, Liara became more interesting, and the same could be said of Garrus. Mass Effect 3 was the best and most polished game of the series, but was brought down by a crappy ending. RPG wise it sits between 1 and 2. I have only heard that this game was the worst of the series from one person, and that person hadn't actually played the whole series. So while there was incredibly disappointment surrounding number 3, I don't see how it could be (and I haven't heard many people say it was) the worst of the series. That Mass Effect 2 was worse than Mass Effect 1 depended on who you talked to. That it steered the ME series away from an RPG and toward a corridor shooter with a poor story could lead some people to conclude that EA was indeed ruining the series. Andromeda ... what a shitstorm that was, ey? I have no problem with people being disappointed in this game. To me it wrestles with Mass Effect 1 as the worst game of the series, and unlike ME1 it can't lay claim to the best "RPG" either. ME1 would be better off as a book imo. It sucked as a game, bigly. If it is considered the best RPG, then RPGs can die in a housefire. Nothing says fun like micromanaging stats that have no perceivable impact until an actual milestone is achieved and then being hilariously OP once maxed out. ME2's story may have been almost entirely irrelevant, but like you said, the characters in that game actually mattered, unlike their cardboard cutout compatriots in ME1. ME3's ending fiasco just screams of entitlement to me. Gamers want games to be recognized as art, but then throw a tizzy when a game ends in a way that they didn't like. ME:A? That one gets so much flak for problems that have existed since ME1. So many people were determined to hate it from the start, So much so EA pulled the plug on it. Bad game? Not hardly. ME games became better when EA took over. They actually became fun to play, and I have no love for EA, trust me.
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Post by river82 on Oct 31, 2017 21:46:35 GMT
ME1 would be better off as a book imo. It sucked as a game, bigly. If it is considered the best RPG, then RPGs can die in a housefire. *Huggles Divinity Original Sin 2 and Pillars of Eternity* I was incredibly disappointed with the fanbase reaction to the ending of ME3 - it was like 10 minutes in a 200 hour series. Personally I thought the game was superb (and I just never played the ending, I stopped just before it )
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2017 21:50:04 GMT
ME1 would be better off as a book imo. It sucked as a game, bigly. If it is considered the best RPG, then RPGs can die in a housefire. *Huggles Divinity Original Sin 2 and Pillars of Eternity* I was incredibly disappointed with the fanbase reaction to the ending of ME3 - it was like 10 minutes in a 200 hour series. Personally I thought the game was superb (and I just never played the ending, I stopped just before it ) My only kvetch with the ending was a lack of closure. EC fixed that right up.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Oct 31, 2017 22:07:52 GMT
You are not the only one. I have seen this cycle repeat over and over again over the years. I've seen this happen with the DA fanbase as well. Never realized that DA2 was apparently such a good game until DAI came out.
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Post by river82 on Oct 31, 2017 22:11:26 GMT
You are not the only one. I have seen this cycle repeat over and over again over the years. I've seen this happen with the DA fanbase as well. Never realized that DA2 was apparently such a good game until DAI came out. I haven't heard DA:2 called a great game
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Oct 31, 2017 22:15:01 GMT
You are not the only one. I have seen this cycle repeat over and over again over the years. I've seen this happen with the DA fanbase as well. Never realized that DA2 was apparently such a good game until DAI came out. I haven't heard DA:2 called a great game I wouldn't say it was being called great but when DAI came out the old bsn all of a sudden broke out into a praise fest for DA2. It probably got more praise during the time frame than it got in the 3 1/2 years between DA2 and DAI.
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Post by river82 on Oct 31, 2017 22:18:09 GMT
I haven't heard DA:2 called a great game I wouldn't say it was being called great but when DAI came out the old bsn all of a sudden broke out into a praise fest for DA2. It probably got more praise during the time frame than it got in the 3 1/2 years between DA2 and DAI. Ugh *wrinkles nose*
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Post by Steelcan on Oct 31, 2017 22:18:49 GMT
I think there is an aspect of this going on. People always shout to the high heavens about the newest game being inferior to all its precedessors.
However, MEA is still pretty disappointing.
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Post by Cyonan on Oct 31, 2017 22:24:38 GMT
It happens in any fanbase. Back when I played WoW the forums had people regularly complain about the current expansion and talk about how much they missed the last one. It's because people who are unhappy with changes to a game or series are far more likely to speak out about it than people who are happy with it.
Of course to be fair I do think Mass Effect 2 was worse than 1 and that Andromeda was the worst of any of them, so there's that.
That just comes from caring about different things in the games. I'm not about to deny that Mass Effect 2 has better combat mechanics than 1 does, but it's still a mediocre cover based shooter at best and there was a loss of RP elements that I liked from 1.
The main reason why I put 3 above 2 is because ME3 is the first time the series was a competent shooter that could stand up on just the shooting mechanics, but if somebody cares more about the game being a RPG then naturally they aren't going to care much about that. Generally people who are only interested in the RP side of the game aren't going to be happy when you gut the RP elements, even if you did make the shooting better.
As somebody who plays tabletop pen and paper RPGs, most of that stuff that people go "ugh it was annoying and stupid anyway" are the things we like that allow us a greater control over defining our character even if they aren't optimal or even terribly useful in a lot of cases. I would have liked to see more stats and variation rather than marginal upgrades to guns that are functionally identical to each other.
I can just be happy with a game like ME3 that put a lot more emphasis on shooter mechanics because I happen to like shooters and largely grew up playing Counter-Strike and Team Fortress Classic.
I wouldn't actually call any of them bad games, though. Not even Andromeda(though it's gonna be a while before I go for a second playthrough).
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Post by samhain444 on Oct 31, 2017 22:25:39 GMT
I'm planning to start a new "Mass Effect" series playthrough on N7 day, beginning with ME1 through ME:A. I've enjoyed every game in the series despite the fact each has their ups and downs but none of them sucked
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2017 22:36:20 GMT
You are not the only one. I have seen this cycle repeat over and over again over the years. I've seen this happen with the DA fanbase as well. Never realized that DA2 was apparently such a good game until DAI came out. I honestly don't get it. Bitches gotta bitch I guess.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2017 22:37:26 GMT
I'm planning a start a new "Mass Effect" series playthrough on N7 day, beginning with ME1 through ME:A. I've enjoyed every game in the series despite the fact each has their ups and downs but none of them sucked All of the ME games (with the exception of ME1 ) are leaps and bounds ahead of the detritus shat out by the AAA industry.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2017 22:40:16 GMT
I think there is an aspect of this going on. People always shout to the high heavens about the newest game being inferior to all its precedessors. However, MEA is still pretty disappointing. I don't see how ME:A is disappointing. Played a lot of games in 2017 and ME:A held my interest the longest. It happens in any fanbase. Back when I played WoW the forums had people regularly complain about the current expansion and talk about how much they missed the last one. It's because people who are unhappy with changes to a game or series are far more likely to speak out about it than people who are happy with it. Of course to be fair I do think Mass Effect 2 was worse than 1 and that Andromeda was the worst of any of them, so there's that. That just comes from caring about different things in the games. I'm not about to deny that Mass Effect 2 has better combat mechanics than 1 does, but it's still a mediocre cover based shooter at best and there was a loss of RP elements that I liked from 1. The main reason why I put 3 above 2 is because ME3 is the first time the series was a competent shooter that could stand up on just the shooting mechanics, but if somebody cares more about the game being a RPG then naturally they aren't going to care much about that. Generally people who are only interested in the RP side of the game aren't going to be happy when you gut the RP elements, even if you did make the shooting better. As somebody who plays tabletop pen and paper RPGs, most of that stuff that people go "ugh it was annoying and stupid anyway" are the things we like that allow us a greater control over defining our character even if they aren't optimal or even terribly useful in a lot of cases. I would have liked to see more stats and variation rather than marginal upgrades to guns that are functionally identical to each other. I can just be happy with a game like ME3 that put a lot more emphasis on shooter mechanics because I happen to like shooters and largely grew up playing Counter-Strike and Team Fortress Classic. I wouldn't actually call any of them bad games, though. Not even Andromeda(though it's gonna be a while before I go for a second playthrough). Disagree on ME:A being the worst. ME1 takes the cake solidly in my book. If I hadn't played ME2 first, I would've written ME off entirely.
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Post by samhain444 on Oct 31, 2017 22:52:31 GMT
I'm planning a start a new "Mass Effect" series playthrough on N7 day, beginning with ME1 through ME:A. I've enjoyed every game in the series despite the fact each has their ups and downs but none of them sucked All of the ME games (with the exception of ME1 ) are leaps and bounds ahead of the detritus shat out by the AAA industry. Honestly, I loved the first one...the story, the characters, the atmosphere...it really sucked me in. Yeah, the combat was wonky and driving the Mako up some mountainous terrain could be torture (just "Y Tho" BioWare), but they did a lot of things right. They had some memorable branching side quests like the ones dealing with Cerberus or taking down some Geth installations. Mass Effect 2 got rid of some of the elements I enjoyed from the first one but really improved the combat and let me explore places like Omega. Also, the DLCs like "Overlord" and "Lair of the Shadow Broker" made it worth coming back for more. Mass Effect 3 connected everything together story and character-wise and upped the combat even more. I know they are three separate games but it's hard not to think of it as a "complete" experience. ME:A suffered with some of the characters and story but had a more optimistic and open premise that, to me, still feels like it has a legit future. I really hope so...
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Post by Cyonan on Oct 31, 2017 22:57:16 GMT
Disagree on ME:A being the worst. ME1 takes the cake solidly in my book. If I hadn't played ME2 first, I would've written ME off entirely. For me Mass Effect 1 is still a great RPG even if it's a bad shooter, while Mass Effect 2 dropped a notch on the RPG scale without becoming a good shooter. I can forgive ME1's blemishes because it's good points are that good, while Mass Effect 2 doesn't hit those points as well with me even though it is still a really good game. I consider Andromeda the worst because I didn't care for the characters, found the story to be average, and there was minimal RP in the game. Most of the dialogue options in the game were just picking which tone you wanted to say the same thing in. It felt like they had doubled down on the flaws that the dialogue system of Dragon Age Inquisition had. It was a good shooter but not so good that it can stand up to other modern day pure shooter games. If all I wanted was a single-player shooter, I'd just reinstall DOOM which is far better in my opinion.
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Post by natetrace on Oct 31, 2017 22:58:49 GMT
This can be said for many fan bases. I think whether it's Mass Effect or Rick and Morty or Supernatural or Doctor Who, the question becomes where is the line drawn for listening to and working at pleasing the base? You can't listen to everything and everyone. I can't remember the quote exactly, and I believe it was said about football, but the gist is if you always listen to the fans you will soon find yourself among them. I like all ME and DA games, and I like that they all have their own distinct feel. Having said that, ME2 and probably DAI are my favorites.
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Post by cmoe on Oct 31, 2017 23:13:57 GMT
All of the ME games (with the exception of ME1 ) are leaps and bounds ahead of the detritus shat out by the AAA industry. Honestly, I loved the first one...the story, the characters, the atmosphere...it really sucked me in. Yeah, the combat was wonky and driving the Mako up some mountainous terrain could be torture (just "Y Tho" BioWare), but they did a lot of things right. They had some memorable branching side quests like the ones dealing with Cerberus or taking down some Geth installations. Mass Effect 2 got rid of some of the elements I enjoyed from the first one but really improved the combat and let me explore places like Omega. Also, the DLCs like "Overlord" and "Lair of the Shadow Broker" made it worth coming back for more. Mass Effect 3 connected everything together story and character-wise and upped the combat even more. I know they are three separate games but it's hard not to think of it as a "complete" experience. ME:A suffered with some of the characters and story but had a more optimistic and open premise that, to me, still feels like it has a legit future. I really hope so... I loved ME1 as well... Not sure if some of it is nostalgia as it was my first Bioware game, but I had a blast playing this game. I did not like driving the Mako but it was still fun to shoot stuff down with it...
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Post by sageoflife on Oct 31, 2017 23:18:43 GMT
I've seen the same thing in the Final Fantasy fandom.
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Post by JokeDealer on Oct 31, 2017 23:19:41 GMT
In my experience, I would agree with this assessment. Mass Effect 2 is the favorite of many of the Mass Effect fans I've interacted with over the years. However, when it came out, people hated how streamlined it was. Then ME3 came out and, despite having the best mixture of action and rpg elements in the trilogy, the entire game was hated based on its ending alone. When Andromeda came out, I was expecting to see similar behavior and I was not disappointed.
Personally, I think Mass Effect 1 is objectively the worst game in the series. People may disagree with me, but its gameplay was janky and its romance options were shallow compared to what comes later in the series. Outside of your alien squadmates, most of your crew was pretty bland, including Joker, who became substantially more witty and funny in later games. The original Mass Effect will always hold a special place in my heart because it is the original -- it laid the groundwork for the entire series. However, Mass Effect 2 and 3 had better gameplay, better romance options, more customization, and improved dialogue mechanics. As for Andromeda, although its story is inferior to Mass Effect 1's, its gameplay was objectively better and more enjoyable, and the squadmates were all on par with the quality of the crew from Mass Effect 2 & 3. I've even said before that Andromeda reminded me a lot of a better version of the original. Mass Effect Andromeda may be the least successful in the series, but I'd be lying if I said that I thought it was the worst game in the franchise.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2017 23:27:07 GMT
Disagree on ME:A being the worst. ME1 takes the cake solidly in my book. If I hadn't played ME2 first, I would've written ME off entirely. For me Mass Effect 1 is still a great RPG even if it's a bad shooter, while Mass Effect 2 dropped a notch on the RPG scale without becoming a good shooter. I can forgive ME1's blemishes because it's good points are that good, while Mass Effect 2 doesn't hit those points as well with me even though it is still a really good game. I consider Andromeda the worst because I didn't care for the characters, found the story to be average, and there was minimal RP in the game. Most of the dialogue options in the game were just picking which tone you wanted to say the same thing in. It felt like they had doubled down on the flaws that the dialogue system of Dragon Age Inquisition had. It was a good shooter but not so good that it can stand up to other modern day pure shooter games. If all I wanted was a single-player shooter, I'd just reinstall DOOM which is far better in my opinion. The only thing I give ME1 credit for is introducing the ME universe and the characters therein. That's it. I only play it anymore for import purposes. Your thoughts on ME:A are mine exactly, but only towards ME1. Doom was a fantastic shooter, but that's it. Graphically it was impressive as well. Story and characters were non-existent, not that I expected Mass Effect level writing in Doom, and I love it for the mindless shoot-em-up that it is. ME1 was a great game *for its time*. It was practically an entirely new phenomenon, so that helped as well. ME2 had some good aspects and some bad aspects. ME3 was in many ways an improvement over ME2, aside from anything connected to the ending disaster and the starbrat. ME:A was just meh. ME1 was pretty shitty as a game, even for it's time. It was released before BioWare actually learned how to make their games fun to play. ME:A played it too safe and suffered from dev hell, but "meh?" No way.
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