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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by geralt on Nov 9, 2017 14:52:27 GMT
This has been known for a rather long time, greed is the main factor in a lot of cases. The games industry is now merely better reflecting how brutal other areas of business are in relation to the shameless pursuit of profit. For example, just this week in the UK the retailer Marks and Spencers had an absolutely tragic 5.3% fall in profits, meaning they'd only make £219.1 million for the year. One wonders how their shareholders could possibly feed themselves now after such a tragic fall in the amount of cash they'll pocket. The company response was to slow down expansion plans, and try to cut some current jobs. All that from a company that is MAKING MONEY.
Of course, they don't tell us where the "line" is for what constitutes as "enough" profit. (I'd suspect their isn't one!) The attitude is now; you make money and the only better thing than that, is to make more money than that going forward. A drop at any point makes you look like the village idiot. In terms of a business culture, we've made many concepts "dirty"; house prices need to keep climbing or the market is viewed as a bust, we've got to keep selling more than last year or we're viewed as a bust, the national economy has got to keep growing year on year or we're a bust, etc and so on.
The games industry is just late to the party with all of this, and now we're getting the "benefits" of that.
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Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mannyray on Nov 9, 2017 18:44:53 GMT
Really? Tell that to Guild Wars 2, who are lining their pockets with cash selling purely cosmetic stuff. But yeh, ya know, whatever. It's not as much as EA, so EA wins. Guild Wars 2 isn't free to play, so they also make money from game purchases. Tera and Star Trek Online are ftp and aren't pay to win. their microtransactions, etc. are generally for cosmetic stuff and many conveniences that are bought with real money can be attained via some grind. so continue taking up for pay to win moneygrabs.
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Post by river82 on Nov 9, 2017 20:51:12 GMT
Guild Wars 2 isn't free to play, so they also make money from game purchases. Tera and Star Trek Online are ftp and aren't pay to win. their microtransactions, etc. are generally for cosmetic stuff and many conveniences that are bought with real money can be attained via some grind. so continue taking up for pay to win moneygrabs. Both of the games you just mentioned started off with a subscription model that transitioned to F2P. (STO also requiring a game purchase.) Once again they weren't always F2P. Furthermore Star Trek Online has become virtually p2w in recent years. For example: as much as i like this game very much, it really saddens me to see it becoming more and more pay to win. the fact that your ship or character can fight competitively againts an equally competitive player is a really fun experience, until an update came with many expensively imbalanced in-game products and next thing you know, a rich player who barely started playing this game can beat you in just a minute.
Or Take intel Assault cruiser tier 6 ship for example can only be bought if you buy expansion pack from wizkids for 60 euros!!! for 1 ship some rare ships like jemhadar can cost up to 200 euros
I remember former game director Dstahl he said "we are makeing economics easier when moveing from emblem to dilithium to have simple economy" now we have like 40 diffrent types of economy.
unless you super rich in real life i do not reccomend this game.Taken from Star Trek Online steam reviews. There's also an aspect of disguising pay to win behind massive grind, which people don't want to admit is p2w but ...
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Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
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Post by mannyray on Nov 9, 2017 21:02:34 GMT
Tera and Star Trek Online are ftp and aren't pay to win. their microtransactions, etc. are generally for cosmetic stuff and many conveniences that are bought with real money can be attained via some grind. so continue taking up for pay to win moneygrabs. Both of the games you just mentioned started off with a subscription model that transitioned to F2P. (STO also requiring a game purchase.) Once again they weren't always F2P. Furthermore Star Trek Online has become virtually p2w in recent years. For example: as much as i like this game very much, it really saddens me to see it becoming more and more pay to win. the fact that your ship or character can fight competitively againts an equally competitive player is a really fun experience, until an update came with many expensively imbalanced in-game products and next thing you know, a rich player who barely started playing this game can beat you in just a minute.
Or Take intel Assault cruiser tier 6 ship for example can only be bought if you buy expansion pack from wizkids for 60 euros!!! for 1 ship some rare ships like jemhadar can cost up to 200 euros
I remember former game director Dstahl he said "we are makeing economics easier when moveing from emblem to dilithium to have simple economy" now we have like 40 diffrent types of economy.
unless you super rich in real life i do not reccomend this game.Taken from Star Trek Online steam reviews. There's also an aspect of disguising pay to win behind massive grind, which people don't want to admit is p2w but ... Nicxe try but I've actually played the game, even after the pandora's box was opened with all the bizarre mechanics that made space pvp little more than proc wars. it's not pay to win, except for the really sensitive crowd. I'll reiterate that the once very good space pvp did go straight down the shitter, however. Also don't see the relevance of these games once being sub only. The business model assertion stands.
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Post by river82 on Nov 9, 2017 21:11:01 GMT
Also don't see the relevance of these games once being sub only. The business model assertion stands. Because I said F2P games often go P2W to recoup costs. The games you mentioned earned quite a bit of revenue as a subscription game. You can't say the business model stands when for years they were operating under a separate subscription model and only transitioned to F2P with an established and paying userbase.
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Post by mannyray on Nov 9, 2017 21:17:10 GMT
Also don't see the relevance of these games once being sub only. The business model assertion stands. Because I said F2P games often go P2W to recoup costs. The games you mentioned earned quite a bit of revenue as a subscription game. You can't say the business model stands when for years they were operating under a separate subscription model and only transitioned to F2P with an established and paying userbase. If they had an adequate sub base they never would have gone F2P to begin with, so the assertion still stands. You still come off like you're taking up for moneygrabs and you cited reviews of people that apparently hadn't played the game much, if at all.
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Post by river82 on Nov 9, 2017 21:25:11 GMT
If they had an adequate sub base they never would have gone F2P to begin with, so the assertion still stands. You still come off like you're taking up for moneygrabs and you cited reviews of people that apparently hadn't played the game much, if at all. They had a dropping subscription base, but that doesn't mean they didn't rake in vast quantities of dough before they transitioned. Take Star Wars TOR, for example. Transitioned from subscription model and buy to play to mostly free to play years after release. Their sub rate was dropping but considering it was the fastest growing MMO ever (apparently) they would have raked in a LOT of money before eventually switching over to (mostly) f2p. The argument that Star Trek isn't pay to win depends mostly on whether you think obscene grind negates pay to win. My opinion is that locking free content behind grind that only those unemployed or at school can participate in counts as virtually pay to win. These purchases are not "harmless cosmetics"
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 9, 2017 22:01:53 GMT
Tera and Star Trek Online are ftp and aren't pay to win. their microtransactions, etc. are generally for cosmetic stuff and many conveniences that are bought with real money can be attained via some grind. so continue taking up for pay to win moneygrabs. Both of the games you just mentioned started off with a subscription model that transitioned to F2P. (STO also requiring a game purchase.) Once again they weren't always F2P. Furthermore Star Trek Online has become virtually p2w in recent years. For example: as much as i like this game very much, it really saddens me to see it becoming more and more pay to win. the fact that your ship or character can fight competitively againts an equally competitive player is a really fun experience, until an update came with many expensively imbalanced in-game products and next thing you know, a rich player who barely started playing this game can beat you in just a minute.
Or Take intel Assault cruiser tier 6 ship for example can only be bought if you buy expansion pack from wizkids for 60 euros!!! for 1 ship some rare ships like jemhadar can cost up to 200 euros
I remember former game director Dstahl he said "we are makeing economics easier when moveing from emblem to dilithium to have simple economy" now we have like 40 diffrent types of economy.
unless you super rich in real life i do not reccomend this game.Taken from Star Trek Online steam reviews. There's also an aspect of disguising pay to win behind massive grind, which people don't want to admit is p2w but ... I really don't know what that first comment is talking about "an update came with many expensively imbalanced in-game products" I really don't know what they are talking about. They added Tier 6 ships four or five years ago, but even then they went out of their way to try and keep the Tier 5 and Tier 6 ships pretty close in power. There is a special ability for Tier 6 ships, but most of them aren't very good and they get one additional console slot. As far as that second comment that is just complaining about the ships they want to fly are expensive, but the Jem'Hadar ship I am not exactly sure about the $200 unless they are buying from a third party, for it is part of a Lootbox and the best thing about it is its look, not its power.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Nov 10, 2017 2:11:05 GMT
Considering pay to win is a mechanic often attached to free to play games, this monetary practice is how they recoup costs. To call the practice as a whole "greedy" is incorrect, unless you just want stuff to play completely for free. F2P can be monetized many ways. Path of Exile is F2P, always has been, and never had subscriptions, but has a “we will never do P2W” declaration in their dev blog. Another example is Neverwinter. Never sold, never subbed, not P2W.
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Post by river82 on Nov 10, 2017 2:27:33 GMT
Considering pay to win is a mechanic often attached to free to play games, this monetary practice is how they recoup costs. To call the practice as a whole "greedy" is incorrect, unless you just want stuff to play completely for free. F2P can be monetized many ways. Path of Exile is F2P, always has been, and never had subscriptions, but has a “we will never do P2W” declaration in their dev blog. Another example is Neverwinter. Never sold, never subbed, not P2W. Agree with you 100% regarding Path of Exile Neverwinter ... is a bit of a controversial addition. There's arguments over whether it's P2W
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Nov 10, 2017 4:20:42 GMT
F2P can be monetized many ways. Path of Exile is F2P, always has been, and never had subscriptions, but has a “we will never do P2W” declaration in their dev blog. Another example is Neverwinter. Never sold, never subbed, not P2W. Agree with you 100% regarding Path of Exile Neverwinter ... is a bit of a controversial addition. There's arguments over whether it's P2W I never play PvP so I guess I never got caught up in the argument. But I should have noted earlier that P2W is a spectrum, not black/white, and it's really only the egregious end that is wholly motivated by greed, imo. There is some pay-to-skip-grinding in Neverwinter, for example, which to me is a bit more of a gray area and not wholly motivated by greed. Some people just don't have as much time to play, but want to play with friends and don't want to be an under-leveled/under-geared drag on the group. But that can also be abused and have the effect of P2W.
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Post by smilesja on Nov 10, 2017 5:22:20 GMT
From that video. It’s astonishing to see gamers not understand how games are made.
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 10, 2017 11:07:08 GMT
From that video. It’s astonishing to see gamers not understand how games are made. As long as you can see how EA makes money you don't need to know how games are made.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2017 14:38:06 GMT
From that video. It’s astonishing to see gamers not understand how games are made. Most gamers don't understand jack shit about games in general. This really shouldn't surprise anyone with even an inkling of knowledge.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 10, 2017 14:41:20 GMT
Are gamers suppose to understand how a game is made?
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Post by azarhal on Nov 10, 2017 15:04:55 GMT
Are gamers suppose to understand how a game is made? When they claims that they know how expensive games are to make and act like armchair developers, you think that they would actually understand how a game is made...yes.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 10, 2017 15:09:46 GMT
When they claims that they know how expensive games are to make and act like armchair developers, you think that they would actually understand how a game is made...yes. How many claimed that?
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Nov 10, 2017 15:28:05 GMT
This thread....
The sophistry of Alanc9 continues, and then there's a new wave of "OMG u guize don't know how hard it is to make gamez" comments.
Some of us have a pretty good idea. Many of us understand how money works.
Defending this practice is a sure sign of ignorance, and there are some smarter people here wearing the hat. Wake up, you're better than that.
They really aren't too expensive to make.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2017 15:37:49 GMT
This thread.... The sophistry of Alanc9 continues, and then there's a new wave of OMG u guize don't know how hard it is to make gamez comments. Some of us have a pretty good idea. Many of us understand how money works. Defending this practice is a sure sign of ignorance, and there are some smarter people here wearing the hat. Wake up, you're better than that. They really aren't too expensive to make. If you had a clue, you would know how exorbitantly expensive video games are to produce from start to finish. Budgets don't continually rise for no reason after all. Also, nice passive-aggressive way to put someone on blast. Mention their name but don't tag them.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Nov 10, 2017 15:42:34 GMT
This thread.... The sophistry of Alanc9 continues, and then there's a new wave of OMG u guize don't know how hard it is to make gamez comments. Some of us have a pretty good idea. Many of us understand how money works. Defending this practice is a sure sign of ignorance, and there are some smarter people here wearing the hat. Wake up, you're better than that. They really aren't too expensive to make. If you had a clue, you would know how exorbitantly expensive video games are to produce from start to finish. Budgets don't continually rise for no reason after all. Also, nice passive-aggressive way to put someone on blast. Mention their name but don't tag them. Go back to page 1 and read Cyonan's first post in this thread. Just because the truth doesn't fit your narrative, doesn't destroy the truth. I don't need to tag alan with anything, he knows how I feel about him and will either ignore my post or respond to it - unlike you he actually does read and comprehend.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2017 15:51:47 GMT
If you had a clue, you would know how exorbitantly expensive video games are to produce from start to finish. Budgets don't continually rise for no reason after all. Also, nice passive-aggressive way to put someone on blast. Mention their name but don't tag them. Go back to page 1 and read Cyonan's first post in this thread. Just because the truth doesn't fit your narrative, doesn't destroy the truth. I don't need to tag alan with anything, he knows how I feel about him and will either ignore my post or respond to it - unlike you he actually does read and comprehend. And? That post pussyfoots around and tries to bestow legitimacy upon a video made by some no-knowledge schmuck that perpetrates the typical "Games companies are greedy" crap spewed by the low information gamers. You can rationalize your passive-aggressive crap all you want and deflect detritus back unto me 'till your blue in the face. Doesn't change the fact that it's laughable to the rest of us.
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Post by goishen on Nov 10, 2017 16:08:31 GMT
Go back to page 1 and read Cyonan's first post in this thread. Just because the truth doesn't fit your narrative, doesn't destroy the truth. I don't need to tag alan with anything, he knows how I feel about him and will either ignore my post or respond to it - unlike you he actually does read and comprehend. And? That post pussyfoots around and tries to bestow legitimacy upon a video made by some no-knowledge schmuck that perpetrates the typical "Games companies are greedy" crap spewed by the low information gamers. You can rationalize your passive-aggressive crap all you want and deflect detritus back unto me 'till your blue in the face. Doesn't change the fact that it's laughable to the rest of us. Games companies are first and foremost companies. Especially the big triple A developers. They are responsible to their investors. I suppose that one could make the argument that the investors are greedy and that thereby makes the companies greedy by default. Okay, that I can live with. They aren't two asshats sitting in their garage coding games anymore like they used to be. Edit : god damned autocorrect.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Nov 10, 2017 16:19:57 GMT
And here we can see the many random and angry BSN posters with their PhDs in a Mass Effect Andromeda forum.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Nov 10, 2017 17:40:11 GMT
Go back to page 1 and read Cyonan's first post in this thread. Just because the truth doesn't fit your narrative, doesn't destroy the truth. I don't need to tag alan with anything, he knows how I feel about him and will either ignore my post or respond to it - unlike you he actually does read and comprehend. And? That post pussyfoots around and tries to bestow legitimacy upon a video made by some no-knowledge schmuck that perpetrates the typical "Games companies are greedy" crap spewed by the low information gamers. You can rationalize your passive-aggressive crap all you want and deflect detritus back unto me 'till your blue in the face. Doesn't change the fact that it's laughable to the rest of us. Laugh it up, fuzzball.
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Post by goishen on Nov 10, 2017 18:59:12 GMT
If he says the word microaggressions then I guess we know.
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