[Day/Night Game] Trouble on the Citadel - round "LE Part 2: Why Cerberus Is Right For You"

Great, so if that happened at least we'd know it had occurred, although I don't think Space's narratives have actually shown who the target was, just that indoctrination was attempted, so I guess we still wouldn't know for sure that it was EDI. Thank you.

There is too much needless speculation going on.

Let ME vote for everyone! I'm good!

Sorry, I had things to take care of after work today and I don't think I'll have time to do a big analysis post Right now, I most suspect romice (yes, despite her claim to Garrus) and fylimar. I promise I will explain why before voting for anyone, but it won't be tonight.

However, it is possible that there is a third remaining spy floating around, and it is possible that smiles is a spy. The problem is that we know nothing about him.

smilesja Can you say anything here to support your innocence? Despite signing up for the game, you aren't really playing it at all.

Okay, here is a bit more thinking aloud which may or may not be helpful.

Since everyone could potentially be good or evil despite using their abilities to aid the heroes, I felt it was worth looking back at previous behaviour, particularly in the last round because, to be honest, round one was so surreal I would hate to condemn anyone on the basis of it (apart from Adonniel of course but that's already proven). I'm also still struggling with behaviour of some people because of their role. With other people, I think their behaviour indicates the probability is in favour of them being good but I'm still not sure of their exact role. However I would not want to force them to clarify because if I am unsure, perhaps the spies are as well, so I don't want to help them in any way. (It is equally possible that I am just being dense about this)

The chief suspects for spies at present would appear to be Romice, Fylimar and Smiles. In reverse order of suspicion:

Smiles. I hope Smiles does respond to your call for more information but really what is he going to say? We already suspect who he is and claiming to be good is not much of a defence this game. Let's cross our fingers and hope he is good. However, the fact that the spies are leaving him alone makes me uneasy. Wouldn’t they be better off removing him overnight? Adonniel also voted for him first in the 2nd round. It could be that this was because she didn’t know who he was but what if she did? I am leaving him at the bottom of the order of suspicion partly because we seem to have another Catch 22 situation here. Even if he was our strongest suspect, we dare not touch him whilst other options are available.

Which brings me to:
Fylimar/Tali. Her voting pattern would seem in keeping with her role, particularly considering who she was required to avoid with voting the first two rounds. I suppose it is possible, if Tali is evil, that Legion isn’t even in the game but she is trying to make it seem as though he is so we would be reluctant to vote off another spy. I think her mistake could have been genuine in the second round in voting for Adonniel but giving away her role. Romice had forced her to reveal it anyway before that. Tittus had been jumping up and down saying “vote her off” about Adonniel despite knowing she was Wrex and then casting suspicion at Pela. If your brain is fogged with cold and there is confusion among the heroes anyway about what to do, you may end up not making the best case for yourself or saying something that in hindsight you realise you should not. It was because the round seemed in serious danger of descending into mayhem once again that I came up with my alternative solution with Diana. Not ideal, I’ll admit but better than voting off evil Wrex or letting a bandwagon form on Pela. Which brings me to:

Romice: If she hadn't recently claimed the role of Garrus, I wouldn't have assumed it and I certainly have doubts about the status as good. Here are my reasons:

After Tittus had been revealed as Liara but before we knew whether or not he was good, Pela said the following:

Pela: If I were Garrus and were planning on taking a shot this night, I don't know, I would sleep on it.

This seemed sensible given all the confusion of the day's vote as it was possible that Tittus was evil. Garrus would seem to have agreed with this assessment of the situation as he did indeed sleep on it. (I will be returning to this point later)

When day 2 commenced with us knowing that Tittus had in fact been good, we now had the problem of what to do with evil Wrex. Romice had the following to say early on:

Romice: Well, now I really don't know what to think. Tittus seemed convinced that adonniel is the bad guy (probably Wrex or Legion as well) and he WAS a good Liara. On the other hand his behaviour seems erratic and Adonniel's doesn't match for me with either role.

I thought it was fairly evident that, despite his protestations that he had been quite willing to take one for the team, initially Tittus had been reluctant to vote Adonniel off because of the likelihood that she would take him with her, so that is why he focussed on getting Garrus to shoot her. Naturally Adonniel's behaviour would not match that of previous Wrex because we have never had a game like this one where genuine roles can be either good or evil. A good Wrex (or impersonator) will flag up who they are in order to avoid being voted off because both spies and heroes will be reluctant to do so. An evil Wrex may not want to be voted off but only the heroes are going to suffer if they are. So he is not going to flag up that he is Wrex. Had Tittus not been told that Adonniel was Wrex he would have recommended voting Wrex off and then it would have come as a total surprise when the role was revealed and Wrex took Tittus with him.

Then Romice voted with the following statement.
“I think we need to get more people talking. I know I'm usually silent, but some of the normally-talkative people aren't that fond of sharing their opinions this round, which while I don't necessarily find suspicious, I do think is strange. With that in mind I'll vote for fylimar, just to get some reaction. I'll probably change my vote later.”

I wouldn’t say that Fylimar is that talkative unless forced into revealing herself to prevent voting off. However, the highlighted part is what I find odd. Hadn’t we spent the entire previous voting round in total confusion through Tittus trying to do exactly this? Hadn’t it been shown to be a very bad idea to manipulate people in this way because the spies used it to manipulate us? Isn’t trying to force people into talking going to risk people revealing themselves when they should remain hidden? What if Fylimar had been EDI and not the fairly innocuous role of Tali or some other important role?

There was no reason for Garrus to force people into revealing themselves since he already had his target for the night. Or was he hoping to flush out another role to shoot instead of Wrex?

Anyway, after Tali had revealed herself and Tittus suggested our course of action with regard to Adonniel and Pela, Moonae voted for Pela citing his recommendation. Tittus responded.

Tittus: “In the case of Pela, it's a suggestion. I got one night of investigation. She's just the #1 on my list of suspects.” So it was clear he was just speculating without giving any real reason for the recommendation.

However, Romice changed her vote with the following explanation:
Romice: “I change my vote from fylimar to pelassarias. I'm not sure that tittus is right on this, but I kind of do get the spy vibes from pela. And keeping adonniel alive could be a good test wheather Garrus is a good guy or a baddie.”

Let’s look back at Romice’s preivous assertions here. She had acknowledged that Tittus behaviour was erratic even when we knew he was good Liara, yet is still willing to follow his advice and vote for Pela despite not being sure he is right and knowing that Tittus has admitted it is only a suggestion.

Then she claims to get spy vibes from Pela. What vibes? Everyone was confused the first day. Then Pela encouraged Garrus to wait until Tittus was confirmed as good before shooting Adonniel (see above quote). Surely Garrus must have agreed that was a good course of action because he did in fact wait instead of shooting Adonniel straight off? So if that action was in the best interests of the heroes and Garrus agreed, surely that was a greater reason not to suspect Pela? If Garrus thought that it was a bad idea and the suggestion of a spy, why didn’t he just go ahead and shoot Adonniel the first night? Does that not make him have as much of a spy vibe as Pela?

Finally she suggests that keeping Adonniel alive will be a good test of whether Garrus is good or bad, knowing of course that she is Garrus so is advertising this will be proof that she is good, except as we now know, according to the rules, it is not proof at all.

So I suggest that may be Romice voted changed to Pela because having ascertained that Tali was someone who could not threaten the spies, that had narrowed down the field of roles that still needed to be identified and removed from play. Then having failed to get Pela voted off, the spies eliminated her overnight by indoctrination while Garrus "proved" his innocence by shooting Adonniel.

Leaving aside the role claim, if this was the normal game, would I not immediately see the above as justification for suspicion? So actually I am not going to wait for Dragon to vote but if you think my reasoning is faulty then I can change it later.

I vote for Romice

I would only point out that the Dragon quote you have used OG was an original one that has since been amended. This was her most recent updated assessment.

It was on the basis of this reassessment of the voting day one and the fact that Dragon had confirmed that Garrus could in fact shoot his own side if they wished that made me re-look at the behaviour and statements made by Romice.    It is also incidentally why I am worried by Adonniel's vote on Smiles on day 2.

I think we need to treat this game as though we have come to it totally new, which in fact we have since it is a different scenario to other games.   I don't think the way certain roles or spies have behaved in previous games can really be a guide to this one. 

Well, unlike Smiles, I do come in and dance around.

Good golly, smiles. We're not asking you to vote, we're asking you to say something. I mean, people are thinking you're Legion. Do you object to that claim? Do you have any suspicions?

I could be wrong here but I think that was a clue.

Yeah, but we already knew he was most likely Legion   I get why he initially started retreating during these games, but the joke voting has gone away, so now it's just kind of annoying that he doesn't participate.

I'm not feeling well today and will go to bed again soon, so I'll make it short.

Dragon, well if you want a suspect from me, it is romice at the moment, for the same reasons, you and gervaise already named.

I didn't wait with voting , because after day 1, I thought, screw it, I can always change, in case Legion shows up.

Thanks for clearing that Kaidan thing up, I thought, I might have given a confusing hint tbh.

And where did I contradicted pela? I trusted her (I would put in here a confused smiley, only I can't access them on the cellphone).

I've been reading the posts, but I haven't really had the time to sit down and figure things out, exams are annoying like that. Also, the last few pages the discussion has been mostly geared towards suspecting me and fylimar.


Sorry to say, you're wrong again

I'll vote for fylimar. She is high on the suspect list of most people, though I don't think I can change everyone's mind about me

On a game related note, I'm rather pleased to have chosen Udina as the Councilor. I am being told that the Council once more are a bunch of useless stumps sitting with the hands shoved up their rear. I'd have a much harder time disliking them with Anderson in charge. While Udina is a Marker sent to pick on.