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Post by sil on Nov 27, 2017 18:01:53 GMT
I've just bought it, but I've not started yet. Might as well create a thread for those of us who will be.
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Post by MarilynRobert on Nov 27, 2017 18:16:47 GMT
Finally, another book
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Post by Ahriman on Nov 28, 2017 8:26:04 GMT
I've read the first chapter and, boy, this is must read. Have you heard that Cora served as asari huntress? Well, now you can finally learn more about it, and from Cora's perspective no less. Also it's noticeable that author did play ME, not just browsed wiki to learn how these blue things are called. I intend to finish it within a week and give a proper impression.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Nov 28, 2017 9:38:43 GMT
Okay I'll order it now then
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Post by obatalaryder on Nov 28, 2017 21:53:18 GMT
On one hand I'm starved for new Mass Effect content and lore. And I've enjoyed all the ME books that I have read. Nexus Uprising was good.
On the other hand it's a book centered on Cora...
Please tell me the book has some crazy revealations related to something.
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Post by sil on Nov 28, 2017 22:16:29 GMT
Well, I finished it.
1) There are no grand revelations, but there are a couple of hints towards the purpose of the Andromeda Initiative that we didn't fully know about. 2) The book felt like it was written by someone who knew the setting, I enjoyed it more than I expected. Far more than Nexus Uprising which I found stale. 3) SAM's less annoying in the book.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 29, 2017 0:10:20 GMT
Well, I finished it. 1) There are no grand revelations, but there are a couple of hints towards the purpose of the Andromeda Initiative that we didn't fully know about.2) The book felt like it was written by someone who knew the setting, I enjoyed it more than I expected. Far more than Nexus Uprising which I found stale. 3) SAM's less annoying in the book. Out of curiosity, what are they?
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Post by obatalaryder on Nov 29, 2017 4:31:29 GMT
Well, I finished it. 1) There are no grand revelations, but there are a couple of hints towards the purpose of the Andromeda Initiative that we didn't fully know about. 2) The book felt like it was written by someone who knew the setting, I enjoyed it more than I expected. Far more than Nexus Uprising which I found stale. 3) SAM's less annoying in the book. Nice. "but there are a couple of hints towards the purpose of the Andromeda Initiative that we didn't fully know about." You mean besides the fact that the Initiative was funded and escalted by the Benefactor in order to escape the Reapers? How much of Cora is in the book if you get what I mean? Did the Asari thing wear you out?
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Post by Ahriman on Nov 29, 2017 5:52:48 GMT
Well, it turned out shorter than I expected for some reason. The protagonist is... you know, not the one we need but the one we deserve kind. Did you hear she was an asari huntress or maybe forgot about that part? Worry not, our "bluepie" "asari fetishist" (literally called that by one of characters) won't let you forget about it. Although Alec gets a little time too. And he is a dick. And human supremacist. So close to the original, I suppose? Speaking of lore, Jemisin was pretty careful with it and I appreciate such stuff. More importantly, I actually liked the plot to the point I managed to finish the book. Something I couldn't do with Initiation. There were some rough/inconsistent moments. Like struggling to describe volus genders without describing anything, I mean, the guy who can declare everything canon is right in co-authors list. Or how Cora discusses that she can't call any reinforcements with Sam. Via qte implant. Yeah. But overall it's pretty decent read. For franchise commission at least. As for some major revelations about Benefactor or anything - there are none. Except that Cora never could become a Pathfinder, whether her body was ready or not. Alec adjusted his Sam to the point that it cannot sync with people having different enough DNA. Not sure it wasn't mentioned in the game, though. And more of a confirmation of what's implied by the game, than anything About Sam being able to turn implanted people into cyborg abominations via nanomachines and DNA modifications. But he doesn't, because it's not a cool thing to do and Alec blocked this feature. tl;dr Better than Initiation, at least for me.
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Post by sil on Nov 29, 2017 14:20:32 GMT
Well, I finished it. 1) There are no grand revelations, but there are a couple of hints towards the purpose of the Andromeda Initiative that we didn't fully know about. 2) The book felt like it was written by someone who knew the setting, I enjoyed it more than I expected. Far more than Nexus Uprising which I found stale. 3) SAM's less annoying in the book. Nice. "but there are a couple of hints towards the purpose of the Andromeda Initiative that we didn't fully know about." You mean besides the fact that the Initiative was funded and escalted by the Benefactor in order to escape the Reapers? How much of Cora is in the book if you get what I mean? Did the Asari thing wear you out? The asari thing got a little old, but it wasn't as frequent as in the game. Mostly it dealt with the culture shock of returning to human space after years on Thessia with only asari. And the purpose it hinted at: The Mysterious Benefactor was severely interested in the AI research of SAM
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Post by obatalaryder on Dec 1, 2017 6:46:09 GMT
And he is a dick. And human supremacist. This is neat. I always headcanoned Alec as being a human supremacist ala TIM. Tbh, his background confirms that already. Some of his memories in-game also points to a human-centric dispositon.
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
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Post by Heimdall on Dec 1, 2017 11:52:00 GMT
And he is a dick. And human supremacist. This is neat. I always headcanoned Alec as being a human supremacist ala TIM. Tbh, his background confirms that already. Some of his memories in-game also points to a human-centric dispositon. Supremacist may not be accurate, he doesn’t think that humans are superior, but human centric yes. One of his justifications for starting over in Andromeda in the book is that humans are too weak to compete with the more established species in the Milky Way.
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link2twenty
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Post by link2twenty on Dec 1, 2017 11:55:06 GMT
What I don't understand is why SAM-E doesn't tell her the temperature has changed every other paragraph 😅
I'm only 3 chapters in but I am really enjoying it so far, I only finished Nexus Uprising recently and this is a refreshing change of pace.
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Post by Ahriman on Dec 1, 2017 12:29:42 GMT
This is neat. I always headcanoned Alec as being a human supremacist ala TIM. Tbh, his background confirms that already. Some of his memories in-game also points to a human-centric dispositon. Supremacist may not be accurate, he doesn’t think that humans are superior, but human centric yes. One of his justifications for starting over in Andromeda in the book is that humans are too weak to compete with the more established species in the Milky Way. I meant that he wants people to become superior, yes. I was like "Oh you" when he went on about his plans on making humans smarter than salarians and stronger than krogans by turning them into totally-not-Zha'til hybrids. This part had such glaring resemblance, that I still wonder if it was Mac's direct intervention on Synthesis behalf or they actually tried to show that Alec is a bit out of his mind.
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Post by bshep on Dec 1, 2017 14:44:07 GMT
I have read half the book. I wouldn't call Alec a human supremacist, he doesn't fit that profile that would fall on TIM. But he does want humanity to thrive via challenge. So far this book is being a more pleasant reading than ME:Uprising, all those mentions to the lore really make me happy. Damn those Alliance secret researchers were trying to create a human analogue of Legion.
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Post by Inosha T'Rynn on Dec 1, 2017 15:15:59 GMT
I am 10% through so far. Really enjoying. Especially the lore about the Asari. Alec is such a dick. I will agree he's a supremacist. He's not overt like Ashley, but he wants to go to Andromeda because he doesn't want to play with the other children or learn what they know. He views them as competition and not compatriots. He's even surprised by the idea of getting to know other Milky Way cultures and seems to be unwilling to understand that Cora knows Asari culture better than humanity, and that she won't just go running back to human culture just because she looks like them. His whole view of the Andromeda venture is very us vs them. He's fine with the other Milky Way species coming so long as they keep to their corner.
I've been asking myself: This jerk is tasked with assessing Cora as a Pathfinder alternate?
Seeing as she is not a supremacist, Addison would have SO hated him if he had lived. He would have also been totally wrong for the Angara.
During the game, I played my main Ryder as distant, not really caring for her father. No regrets here. I'm also having a gigglefest thinking about what his reaction would have been to the idea of his daughter marrying an Asari.
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Post by link2twenty on Dec 1, 2017 15:39:39 GMT
Their release schedule compared to the timeline of events is a little odd. Book | Released | Timeline | Uprising | 1st | 2nd | Initiation | 2nd (planned 3rd) | 1st | Annihilation | 3rd (planned 2nd) | 3rd |
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Dec 1, 2017 18:19:37 GMT
I am 10% through so far. Really enjoying. Especially the lore about the Asari. Alec is such a dick. I will agree he's a supremacist. He's not overt like Ashley, but he wants to go to Andromeda because he doesn't want to play with the other children or learn what they know. He views them as competition and not compatriots. He's even surprised by the idea of getting to know other Milky Way cultures and seems to be unwilling to understand that Cora knows Asari culture better than humanity, and that she won't just go running back to human culture just because she looks like them. His whole view of the Andromeda venture is very us vs them. He's fine with the other Milky Way species coming so long as they keep to their corner.
I've been asking myself: This jerk is tasked with assessing Cora as a Pathfinder alternate?
Seeing as she is not a supremacist, Addison would have SO hated him if he had lived. He would have also been totally wrong for the Angara.
During the game, I played my main Ryder as distant, not really caring for her father. No regrets here. I'm also having a gigglefest thinking about what his reaction would have been to the idea of his daughter marrying an Asari. Wow...you think Ash is a supremacist. Ash is a skeptic and realist. She was right about the council races looking to themselves first when a galactic threat shows up. And Alec isn't a supremacist, he is a humanist. He wants humanity to evolve, to grow, and thrive. He feels that there is very little incentive is for humans to grow and reach their potential because all the other races have done most the work before humans were even able to reach space let alone settle another planet. He says nothing about humans ruling over, or subjecting the other council races.
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Post by Inosha T'Rynn on Dec 1, 2017 18:59:05 GMT
I am 10% through so far. Really enjoying. Especially the lore about the Asari. Alec is such a dick. I will agree he's a supremacist. He's not overt like Ashley, but he wants to go to Andromeda because he doesn't want to play with the other children or learn what they know. He views them as competition and not compatriots. He's even surprised by the idea of getting to know other Milky Way cultures and seems to be unwilling to understand that Cora knows Asari culture better than humanity, and that she won't just go running back to human culture just because she looks like them. His whole view of the Andromeda venture is very us vs them. He's fine with the other Milky Way species coming so long as they keep to their corner.
I've been asking myself: This jerk is tasked with assessing Cora as a Pathfinder alternate?
Seeing as she is not a supremacist, Addison would have SO hated him if he had lived. He would have also been totally wrong for the Angara.
During the game, I played my main Ryder as distant, not really caring for her father. No regrets here. I'm also having a gigglefest thinking about what his reaction would have been to the idea of his daughter marrying an Asari. Wow...you think Ash is a supremacist. Ash is a skeptic and realist. She was right about the council races looking to themselves first when a galactic threat shows up. And Alec isn't a supremacist, he is a humanist. He wants humanity to evolve, to grow, and thrive. He feels that there is very little incentive is for humans to grow and reach their potential because all the other races have done most the work before humans were even able to reach space let alone settle another planet. He says nothing about humans ruling over, or subjecting the other council races.
Yes I do. Her xenophobic comments during the trilogy speak to that. Just because the other races are xenophobic don't mean that she still isn't a supremacist, nor does it excuse her behavior. Supremacy isn't just about carrying around torches and pitchforks, it's also microaggressions, which she is full of and she isn't alone. Miranda comes to mind, too, though she seems to grow out of it in 3; Udina; Sloane Kelly despite her fetishizing Turians and Krogan; Peebee; and even Liara is like this. The lesson in all 4 Mass Effect games is that victory can only be achieved when everyone works together and realizes that they're not as special as they think they are. This is why Tann is such a shitstain. Never said he did, but he seems to approach non-humans going to Andromeda as tag-alongs that could help humanity, but the way he thinks about them is very us vs them.
Alec seems to believe humanity has nothing to gain from learning from Council and even non-Council races and that humanity is something super special. Cry me a river. It's not so subtly implied that he rejects the idea that there's still exploration to do in the Milky Way even if the Asari, for example, have been there before: There's still stuff to learn and things that even the Asari haven't done. I find it incredibly short sighted and whiny. Same thing with humanity's adaptation in using biotics, which is why Peebee makes the comment in Andromeda about humans being impatient wanting to fast-track their expansion into using it.
Cora's whole point is that her life experiences growing up on a freighter and her exposure to Asari culture IS exploration to anyone else that hasn't experienced it. When she made this point to Alec he was surprised. Meaning, this is a concept he hadn't really considered. She even makes this comment to Peebee when you put them in the Nomad together. Since humanity is new to the galactic society, any culture that isn't human is an adventure, and vice versa. Keep in mind humanity is still very new to other Milky Way species, too. I believe Liara talked about this in 1.
Addison also makes this comment multiple times during Uprising and the course of the game: First in explaining that she appreciates people who think differently than she does, yelling at Sloane over racist comments she makes, and verbally bitchslapping Tann for not wanting to hand over control of Heleus affairs to the Angara.
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Dec 1, 2017 19:30:26 GMT
Wow...you think Ash is a supremacist. Ash is a skeptic and realist. She was right about the council races looking to themselves first when a galactic threat shows up. And Alec isn't a supremacist, he is a humanist. He wants humanity to evolve, to grow, and thrive. He feels that there is very little incentive is for humans to grow and reach their potential because all the other races have done most the work before humans were even able to reach space let alone settle another planet. He says nothing about humans ruling over, or subjecting the other council races.
Yes I do think they are both supremacists. Her xenophobic comments during the trilogy speak to that. Just because the other races are xenophobic don't mean that she still isn't a supremacist. The lesson in all 4 Mass Effect games is that victory can only be achieved when everyone works together and realizes that they're not as special as they think they are. This is why Tann is such a shitstain. Both of them seem to believe that humanity has nothing to gain from learning from Council and even non-Council races and that humanity is something super special, rejecting the idea that there's still exploration to do even if the Asari, for example, have been there before: There's still stuff to learn and things that even the Asari haven't done. It's incredibly short sighted and whiny. Ash makes a single comment about using a dog and bear as an analogy. About how the dog would be left behind so the person could escape. What is the dog in the analogy that is left behind? An alien or a human? She doesn't like Cerberus which is apparent in ME2&3, she even makes a comment in ME1 about the prohuman/anti-alien group protesting on the citadel. How does thinking humanity should look out for itself first because it is likely the other races will do the same equal supremacy? Which again is exactly what happened in ME3. It takes Shepard getting/doing something for each race to wake up and unite. As for Alec again he isn't advocating for human supremacy over any group, he wants humanity to evolve, and he feels that can't do that when many of the answers are being handed to them by the other council races. Broken down to its simplest form his view can be summed up as, only through adversity can man reach their full potential. Is his view flawed? I think so, and even Cora thinks he is a bit of a mad scientist. But he isn't entirely wrong either.
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Post by Inosha T'Rynn on Dec 1, 2017 19:44:08 GMT
Ash makes a single comment about using a dog and bear as an analogy. About how the dog would be left behind so the person could escape. What is the dog in the analogy that is left behind? An alien or a human? She doesn't like Cerberus which is apparent in ME2&3, she even makes a comment in ME1 about the prohuman/anti-alien group protesting on the citadel. How does thinking humanity should look out for itself first because it is likely the other races will do the same equal supremacy. Which again is exactly what happened in ME3. It takes Shepard getting/doing something for each race to wake up and unite. As for Alec again he isn't advocating for human supremacy over any group, he wants humanity to evolve, and he feels that can't do that when many of the answers are being handed to them by the other council races. Broken down to its simplest form his view can be summed up as, only through adversity can man reach their full potential. Is his view flawed? I think so, and even Cora thinks he is a bit of a mad scientist. But he isn't entirely wrong either.
Ash makes many comments if you take her to the Citadel with you. Same with side conversations. Just because she doesn't like Cerberus doesn't mean that she doesn't have supremacist viewpoints. Racism is a symptom of supremacy. How is refusing to learn about another culture going to benefit humanity, or any other species? Obviously it didn't for the Protheans, and that's Jarun Tann's whole character. Again, Miranda thinks this way too and so does Liara if you really listen to their dialogue. It's presented differently in each character, though...Peebee too. Refusing to acknowledge that there might be something to gain by not learning or working with another culture to thrive is xenophobic in nature and leads to the whole theme throughout all 4 games of "We're going to fend for ourselves. Screw you." The basic thought is: I value x over y people, so there's no need for me to help them. Director Addison does a really good job of putting this notion up to a mirror without there being shooting at things. Broken down: Cora's question to Alec is, "why don't you just take the time to listen?" A bigger part of her questions is putting aside ego to do this since she had to while she was learning with the Asari. Alec seems surprised by this idea. It seems as though he wants humanity's evolution to take place apart from everyone else as though they are alone in the universe.
I agree with Cora and Peebs that evolution isn't something instantaneous nor is it always rooted in just physical adventuring. My opinion on this is: Too bad so sad. I think his view is flawed, too. Just because I don't empathize with him here, or Ashley for that matter (keep in mind, I went back to save her on Virmire), doesn't make either of them bad characters. I just don't agree with their viewpoints or their methods.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 1, 2017 20:31:42 GMT
In Ashley's defence, many of Mass Effect's squadmates, be they human or alien, make racist or xenophobic statements from time to time. Ashley just happens the be only squadmate who's statements are given any special narrative treatement. Meanwhile racially motivated statements by other squadmates (hello Wrex) are completely ignored by both the story and the other characters. Yeah, for example the worst offender is probably everybody's best bro Garrus. He says a lot of racist or xenophobic remarks in the earlier games. At least most of those squadmates like him and Ashley develop past that as the story progresses.
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Post by Inosha T'Rynn on Dec 1, 2017 20:36:29 GMT
In Ashley's defence, many of Mass Effect's squadmates, be they human or alien, make racist or xenophobic statements from time to time. Ashley just happens the be only squadmate who's statements are given any special narrative treatement. Meanwhile racially motivated statements by other squadmates (hello Wrex) are completely ignored by both the story and the other characters. Agreed. Which is why I also included other characters like Miranda, Sloane, Liara, and Peebee as examples. I just chose Ashley in the first statement since her comments are overt. In Peebee's case, Cora calls her out eventually. Tann gets called out by Ryder, Addison, Kesh, and Sloane among others.
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SwobyJ
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by SwobyJ on Dec 1, 2017 23:34:18 GMT
Usually when I call someone 'a somethingist', I go by what they identify as, whether directly or implicitly. I'll call someone a homophobe if they're afraid of homosexuals or homosexuality (a fear that in almost all to all cases I consider unwarranted/irrational), or their opposition is so strong as to appear as fear, but I won't call them homophobic if they don't react in any negative way but disagreement.
Otherwise, I use terms like 'somethingist thinking', 'acting somethingist', and so on.
I didn't read the book, but from my readings of posts here, I wouldn't call Alec a human supremacist, but a humanist with supremacist notions.
But I'd call TIM supremacist.
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thesupremedarkone
N3
I have returned to grace this forum with my presence
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Post by thesupremedarkone on Dec 1, 2017 23:40:37 GMT
So what's the plot summary?
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