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Post by luin on Dec 25, 2017 1:34:36 GMT
I might be wrong, but I checked and couldn't find a thread about LotR and Tolkien. We can use this thread to discuss the books, Jackson's movies, the games, etc.
The latest news is that Amazon are apparently creating a new series based upon Tolkien's work. I'm not sure about the actual details, though.
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Post by cribbian on Dec 25, 2017 18:10:37 GMT
It was supposed to take place before the Trilogy right? I'll have the hypebutton on stand-by.
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Post by Terminator Force on Dec 25, 2017 18:53:12 GMT
Anyone know if the Blue Rays have both 24 & 48fps versions?
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Post by vonuber on Dec 25, 2017 20:51:34 GMT
The movies were a massive disappointment.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 25, 2017 21:12:51 GMT
The Amazon deal has me very nervous. It would be hard enough to do a series that really does justice to the books, let alone original material. On another note, I got this for CHristmas  
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Post by luin on Dec 26, 2017 2:53:23 GMT
Vonuber: Which movies? All of them? I would definitely agree in regard to The Hobbit movies, but I actually like the adaptation of LotR.
Lakus: Neat. I remember reading the story of those two characters in The Silmarillion...quite a good tale.
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Post by MrR40 on Dec 26, 2017 7:46:56 GMT
A series/movies adaptation from one of the Unfinished Tales or Silmarillion ? Amazon's finances might provide a lot of eye candy but won't guarantee a good script.
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Post by vonuber on Dec 26, 2017 12:35:49 GMT
Vonuber: Which movies? All of them? I would definitely agree in regard to The Hobbit movies, but I actually like the adaptation of LotR. The fellowship was ok, however the warning signs were there by the way they changed the character of Aragorn. My main issues with the films are the needless changes they made, often meaning they had to make up things to explain the things they changed. Couple that with some absolute butchery of people - for example compare the one dimensional bad guy of denethor with the book - and it just comes across as 'meh'. They seemed to be more concerned with spectacle rather than telling the tale.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 26, 2017 13:56:59 GMT
Vonuber: Which movies? All of them? I would definitely agree in regard to The Hobbit movies, but I actually like the adaptation of LotR. The fellowship was ok, however the warning signs were there by the way they changed the character of Aragorn. My main issues with the films are the needless changes they made, often meaning they had to make up things to explain the things they changed. Couple that with some absolute butchery of people - for example compare the one dimensional bad guy of denethor with the book - and it just comes across as 'meh'. They seemed to be more concerned with spectacle rather than telling the tale. Boromir got screwed by the movies.
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Post by vonuber on Dec 26, 2017 14:40:06 GMT
And Faramir- the scene of him taking Frodo back to minas tirith completely undermines his charachter.
And let's not get started on Frodo telling sam to go home on the steps of cirith ungol.
Or the army of the dead.
Etc.
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Post by Terminator Force on Dec 26, 2017 14:42:17 GMT
Vonuber: Which movies? All of them? I would definitely agree in regard to The Hobbit movies, but I actually like the adaptation of LotR. The fellowship was ok, however the warning signs were there by the way they changed the character of Aragorn. My main issues with the films are the needless changes they made, often meaning they had to make up things to explain the things they changed. Couple that with some absolute butchery of people - for example compare the one dimensional bad guy of denethor with the book - and it just comes across as 'meh'. They seemed to be more concerned with spectacle rather than telling the tale. Thing I dislike most about the movies are the battles, battles, battles. Wish they were all cut out for the most part in focus of something that isn't mindless spectacle.
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Post by o Ventus on Dec 26, 2017 14:58:57 GMT
The fellowship was ok, however the warning signs were there by the way they changed the character of Aragorn. My main issues with the films are the needless changes they made, often meaning they had to make up things to explain the things they changed. Couple that with some absolute butchery of people - for example compare the one dimensional bad guy of denethor with the book - and it just comes across as 'meh'. They seemed to be more concerned with spectacle rather than telling the tale. Thing I dislike most about the movies are the battles, battles, battles. Wish they were all cut out for the most part in focus of something that isn't mindless spectacle. This sounds like you've only seen the theatrical cuts of the films, which were cut for time so theater audiences didn't have to sit and watch 10 collective hours of film. Watch the extended cuts (or, "normal" versions as I call them), and they greatly expand on pretty much everything. Spectacle? In a visual medium? Oh, why, j'accuse! Next thing you know people will be wanting music without instruments, paintings without colors, and books without words.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 26, 2017 15:20:24 GMT
The Extended Cuts are much better than the original. But there are still flaws. Boromir and Farmir's (and Denethor) characters for example. The lack of a letter from Gandalf at Bree, no Scouring of the Shire, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I greatly enjoyed the movies. But they still didn't quite capture the spirit of Lord of the Rings.
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Post by Terminator Force on Dec 26, 2017 16:03:17 GMT
Thing I dislike most about the movies are the battles, battles, battles. Wish they were all cut out for the most part in focus of something that isn't mindless spectacle. This sounds like you've only seen the theatrical cuts of the films, which were cut for time so theater audiences didn't have to sit and watch 10 collective hours of film. Watch the extended cuts (or, "normal" versions as I call them), and they greatly expand on pretty much everything. Spectacle? In a visual medium? Oh, why, j'accuse! Next thing you know people will be wanting music without instruments, paintings without colors, and books without words. Seen both. Just that during the many battles in these movies my mind just drifts. It's action scenes with too many characters too follow that's the issue.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 26, 2017 16:18:52 GMT
An example of how film doesn't quite capture the books:
"Begone foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!"
A cold voice answered: "Come not between the Nazgûl and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shriveled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye."
A sword rang as it was drawn. "Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may."
"Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!"
Then Merry heard of all sounds in that hour the strangest. It seemed that Dernhelm laughed, and the clear voice was like the ring of steel. "But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund’s daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you if you touch him."
One of the most bad*ss moments of the trilogy. The movie scene doesn't really compare to the scene in Return of the King
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Post by vonuber on Dec 26, 2017 16:24:15 GMT
There's a worse example: Gandalf hiding in the cupboard rather than having the epic face off with the nazgul under the shadow of the ruined gates.
An absolutely baffling change.
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Post by Onecrazymonkey1 on Dec 26, 2017 18:09:41 GMT
There would have been a time when I would've wanted nothing more than to see the Silmarillion and my favorite characters on screen, Fëanor, Fingolfin, Maedhros etc. but not so much anymore. For a brief time I was actually excited that Amazon was going to do something with Tolkien's works but the more I think about it the more concerned I get. I think the movies are well done pieces of cinema imo but they still had me cringing with Faramir's character being changed, the army of the dead, Legolas surfing etc. and I really feel we all dodged a bullet from their original intentions of having Arwen at the battle of helm's deep. I'm not a hater though and I'll always have the books, so if the show is really terrible I guess I can forget it exists, although I'm hoping for the best. Does anyone have any idea what the show is going to be about? As for the games, I can overlook them a lot more because if they're fun I play them....fan fiction or not.  I'm rusty on my lore and now this thread has made me want to brush up, cool.
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Post by The Hype Himself on Dec 26, 2017 18:49:47 GMT
There are lack of threads on here worthwhile. Now one more has been added: I much the Silmarillion, and my favorite character of all is...
Tom Bombadil.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 26, 2017 19:19:51 GMT
There are lack of threads on here worthwhile. Now one more has been added: I much the Silmarillion, and my favorite character of all is... Tom Bombadil. Like many, I don't like Tom Bombadil. That said, I could almost wish he was in the movies, as that would have put the Barrow-downs back in the story.
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Post by ScumbagShepurd on Dec 26, 2017 20:01:22 GMT
Watch the extended cuts (or, "normal" versions as I call them), and they greatly expand on pretty much everything. as if three fookin hrs aint enough. The Return of the King was overlong enough, how many more hours did PJ need to complete the story? The movie had TWO third acts ffs  in my experience, no movie is worth 3 hours of one's life and the LOTR movies aint exception. An example of how film doesn't quite capture the books: "Begone foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!"
A cold voice answered: "Come not between the Nazgûl and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shriveled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye."
A sword rang as it was drawn. "Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may."
"Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!"
Then Merry heard of all sounds in that hour the strangest. It seemed that Dernhelm laughed, and the clear voice was like the ring of steel. "But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund’s daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you if you touch him."One of the most bad*ss moments of the trilogy. The movie scene doesn't really compare to the scene in Return of the King too many words for a movie tbh.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 26, 2017 20:06:12 GMT
Watch the extended cuts (or, "normal" versions as I call them), and they greatly expand on pretty much everything. as if three fookin hrs aint enough. The Return of the King was overlong enough, how many more hours did PJ need to complete the story? The movie had TWO third acts ffs  in my experience, no movie is worth 3 hours of one's life and the LOTR movies aint exception. An example of how film doesn't quite capture the books: "Begone foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!"
A cold voice answered: "Come not between the Nazgûl and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shriveled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye."
A sword rang as it was drawn. "Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may."
"Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!"
Then Merry heard of all sounds in that hour the strangest. It seemed that Dernhelm laughed, and the clear voice was like the ring of steel. "But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund’s daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you if you touch him."One of the most bad*ss moments of the trilogy. The movie scene doesn't really compare to the scene in Return of the King too many words for a movie tbh. Probably shouldn't mention that time I watched all three extended movies back-to-back-to-back...
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Post by ScumbagShepurd on Dec 26, 2017 21:03:21 GMT
two fun facts about Middle Earth. It's not classified information but for some reason a lot of people don't know about it. 1. Sauron wasn't an oversized eye in the end of the Third Age. Sauron had a physical body.
Gollum is our eyewitness (no pun intended) here: Yes, He has only four [fingers] on the Black Hand, but they are enoughAlso, Tolkien himself on Sauron's appearance during the War of the Ring: Sauron should be thought of as very terrible. The form that he took was that of a man of more than human stature, but not gigantic. In his earlier incarnation he was able to veil his power (as Gandalf did) and could appear as a commanding figure of great strength of body and supremely royal demeanour and countenance.
[Letter #246] 2. Minas Tirith is the White City indeed but not all of its walls are white. For the main wall of the City was of great height and marvelous thickness, built ere the power and craft of Númenor waned in exile; and its outward face was like to the Tower of Orthanc, hard and dark and smooth, unconquerable by steel or fire, unbreakable except by some convulsion that would rend the very earth on which it stood.[The Return of the King, Siege of Gondor] so Minas Tirith doesn't look like this:  it's more like this:  or like this:  In the LOTRO game Minas Tirith got a black main wall. They actually did a great job showing the city: 
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Post by Terminator Force on Dec 26, 2017 22:19:31 GMT
Watch the extended cuts (or, "normal" versions as I call them), and they greatly expand on pretty much everything. as if three fookin hrs aint enough. The Return of the King was overlong enough, how many more hours did PJ need to complete the story? The movie had TWO third acts ffs  in my experience, no movie is worth 3 hours of one's life and the LOTR movies aint exception. You don't have to watch a movie all at once, you can stop halfway through and pick up where you left off another time. Personally this is something I do with short movies too.
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Post by Beerfish on Dec 26, 2017 23:36:51 GMT
The movies were a massive disappointment. I could not disagree any more. The hobbit movies were weak in areas. I think the original lotr movies were excellent and as close as you can get in movie land of doing justice to the books.
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Post by luin on Dec 27, 2017 0:41:11 GMT
I feel like the LOTR movies have both positive and negative elements. (But more positive than negative.)
I like the movie Arwen. In the books, from what I remember, she has barely any scenes. (Although there is a nice snippet in the appendix.) The soundtrack, by Howard Shore, is superb. Nice visuals, too. Aragorn comes across as more interesting on the whole, and Boromir seems more sympathetic. Theoden's 'horse and the rider' scene is powerful.
On the negative side, I know what people mean about the depiction of Denethor...the book version is better. The same goes for Gimli. The books also have the scouring chapters, which are interesting.
The Faramir change irritates a lot of people, but I feel that it could have been softened if Jackson hadn't deleted an important scene from the theatrical version of the second movie. (The scene in question is one between Faramir, Boromir and Denethor, set before the council of Elrond. It's in the extended version, I think.)
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