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Post by sageoflife on Jan 3, 2018 8:57:16 GMT
Do you have any idea how many anti-gay activists you sound like? But I am not one. I want people to be happy with whoever makes them happy, marry if they wish to, do not marry if they do not, live together, do not live together... And yet you keep saying the same things people use to justify restricting our rights.
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Post by river82 on Jan 3, 2018 9:00:58 GMT
But I am not one. I want people to be happy with whoever makes them happy, marry if they wish to, do not marry if they do not, live together, do not live together... I have a very serious question for you. Why are you so interested in trying to justify your choice to those who ... lets just say are a smidge too invested in the humane treatment of video game characters for what is healthy. The problem is they treat the character as though he's a real person and so your choice inflicts real pain. This is to you not true (because you're sane). Also pretty funny in a game where you blow shit up. However seeing as this disconnect is not going to be resolved, trying to justify yourself to them will never make any ground.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 9:01:37 GMT
But I am not one. I want people to be happy with whoever makes them happy, marry if they wish to, do not marry if they do not, live together, do not live together... And yet you keep saying the same things people use to justify restricting our rights. That anyone could potentially fall in love with anyone else independently of genders involved when all other things are being equal? That no relationship feels any different to me than any other if it’s loving and equal?
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Post by sageoflife on Jan 3, 2018 9:04:02 GMT
And yet you keep saying the same things people use to justify restricting our rights. That anyone could potentially fall in love with anyone else independently of genders involved when all other things are being equal? That no relationship feels any different to me than any other if it’s loving and equal? That is sexuality is a result of his upbringing and that he could bring himself to fall in love with a woman if he just tries hard enough. Heard it, bought half-a-dozen t-shirts.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 9:05:56 GMT
But I am not one. I want people to be happy with whoever makes them happy, marry if they wish to, do not marry if they do not, live together, do not live together... I have a very serious question for you. Why are you so interested in trying to justify your choice to those who ... lets just say are a smidge too invested in the humane treatment of video game characters for what is healthy. The problem is they treat the character as though he's a real person and so your choice inflicts real pain. This is to you not true (because you're sane). Also pretty funny in a game where you blow shit up. However seeing as this disconnect is not going to be resolved, trying to justify yourself to them will never make any ground. I appreciate this conversation, however hard it is. It is interesting. People do have different views and approach playing differently & everyone has a different RL baggage. Where else would you talk but on the net?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 9:08:35 GMT
That anyone could potentially fall in love with anyone else independently of genders involved when all other things are being equal? That no relationship feels any different to me than any other if it’s loving and equal? That is sexuality is a result of his upbringing and that he could bring himself to fall in love with a woman if he just tries hard enough. Heard it, bought half-a-dozen t-shirts. Nobody can bring him or herself to fall in love ever. Male, or female that does not matter, it’s absurd. You are either in love or not.
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Post by sageoflife on Jan 3, 2018 9:10:49 GMT
That is sexuality is a result of his upbringing and that he could bring himself to fall in love with a woman if he just tries hard enough. Heard it, bought half-a-dozen t-shirts. Nobody can bring him or herself to fall in love ever. Male, or female that does not matter, it’s absurd. You are either in love or not. And Dorian is by definition not in love with women, which for some reason you can't grasp. You remind me of Kurt from Glee, and not in a good way, with this fantasy you have about someone of the wrong orientation despite the fact that it cannot work by definition.
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Post by Verfallen on Jan 3, 2018 9:12:39 GMT
No, it is true. When asked about it in the scene with his father: *choose 'No women at all?' dialogue option* Inquisitor: "You've never been with a woman? Or even wanted to?" Dorian: "Not to my recollection. Don't get me wrong, they are wonderful. They're just...not for me. That's not so beyond belief, is it?" I just have to laugh. The idea of asking him this in front of his father is so weird to me. It just seems so wildly inappropriate for how I think of such questions. I can see asking him later on, at some other time, but not just then! Same if the Inquisitor picks the "I'll need you to explain that." option. In the middle of that dramatic scene with Halward you suddenly get: Dorian: Did I stutter? Men, and the company thereof. As in sex. Surely you've heard of it. Inquisitor: I've more than heard of it, actually. Dorian: No! The Herald of Andraste? I am shocked and scandalized. Inquisitor: Such sarcasm. Dorian: You're not exactly subtle, oh Lord Inquisitor. Now I'm trying to think how they'll write that verse of the Chant. Halward has to break into their flirty dialogue to get the fight back on track.
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Post by sageoflife on Jan 3, 2018 9:15:18 GMT
I just have to laugh. The idea of asking him this in front of his father is so weird to me. It just seems so wildly inappropriate for how I think of such questions. I can see asking him later on, at some other time, but not just then! Same if the Inquisitor picks the "I'll need you to explain that." option. In the middle of that dramatic scene with Halward you suddenly get: Dorian: Did I stutter? Men, and the company thereof. As in sex. Surely you've heard of it. Inquisitor: I've more than heard of it, actually. Dorian: No! The Herald of Andraste? I am shocked and scandalized. Inquisitor: Such sarcasm. Dorian: You're not exactly subtle, oh Lord Inquisitor. Now I'm trying to think how they'll write that verse of the Chant. Halward has to break into their flirty dialogue to get the fight back on track. I just figure a decade or two in the Circle, completely cut off from society, has left the Inquisitor a bit clueless at times.
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Post by Verfallen on Jan 3, 2018 10:05:01 GMT
Same if the Inquisitor picks the "I'll need you to explain that." option. In the middle of that dramatic scene with Halward you suddenly get: Dorian: Did I stutter? Men, and the company thereof. As in sex. Surely you've heard of it. Inquisitor: I've more than heard of it, actually. Dorian: No! The Herald of Andraste? I am shocked and scandalized. Inquisitor: Such sarcasm. Dorian: You're not exactly subtle, oh Lord Inquisitor. Now I'm trying to think how they'll write that verse of the Chant. Halward has to break into their flirty dialogue to get the fight back on track. I just figure a decade or two in the Circle, completely cut off from society, has left the Inquisitor a bit clueless at times. I took it with my Inquisitor that he's not that clued out (he also had a few years on his own between the Circle and the conclave, but that's another story) — they've already been flirting enough that he's rather mad about Dorian, but Dorian still hasn't come right out and said he's gay. Therefore he's being sardonic as in you pick now to finally admit it?
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jan 3, 2018 10:36:31 GMT
I just figure a decade or two in the Circle, completely cut off from society, has left the Inquisitor a bit clueless at times. I took it with my Inquisitor that he's not that clued out (he also had a few years on his own between the Circle and the conclave, but that's another story) — they've already been flirting enough that he's rather mad about Dorian, but Dorian still hasn't come right out and said he's gay. Therefore he's being sardonic as in you pick now to finally admit it?Heh I just love seeing people's headcanons for choices like this. My (warrior) Trev has been flirting with him up to that point and the way I play it seems like they're both aware that each of them like men, so it just doesn't make sense for me to ask him to clarify. To me, it's not so much that Dorian is "coming out" in the scene, but just being explicit about the conflict with his father: "I prefer the company of men. My father doesn't approve." I skip all of the options relating to that and just go right to "Why is it an issue?" My guy is gay, and his parents know he's gay and are fine with it, so it's a bit difficult for him to grasp. It also flows nicely with his outraged tone when he says, "That's what this is all about? Who you sleep with." It's a shame that so many dialogue options are locked behind asking Dorian to clarify, so I never see them, but my path fits really well with my headcanon and Inquisitor's personality, so it works out.
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Post by grallon on Jan 3, 2018 12:55:55 GMT
I appreciate this conversation, however hard it is. It is interesting. People do have different views and approach playing differently & everyone has a different RL baggage. Where else would you talk but on the net? Unfortunately I'm afraid you're the only one trying to have a conversation here. These others are merely bludgeoning you with their 'truths' - witness how they've already called you 'obtuse' for not agreeing with them... In any case, and for what it's worth, I get what you're saying about falling in love without physical attraction; once upon a time it used to be known as platonic love. However you're dealing with people who are so mired in identity politics they have no perspective about this and aren't interested in listening so...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 13:00:35 GMT
I appreciate this conversation, however hard it is. It is interesting. People do have different views and approach playing differently & everyone has a different RL baggage. Where else would you talk but on the net? Unfortunately I'm afraid you're the only one trying to have a conversation here. These others are merely bludgeoning you with their 'truths' - witness how they've already called you 'obtuse' for not agreeing with them... In any case, and for what it's worth, I get what you're saying about falling in love without physical attraction; once upon a time it used to be known as platonic love. However you're dealing with people who are so mired in identity politics they have no perspective about this and aren't interested in listening so... ‘It’s okay, but I appreciate the acceptance. I am just going to play DA2 when I feel like a bit of DA.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 3, 2018 13:48:50 GMT
I already spoke about this somewhere, and the others already said many things, I just have one remained: If you made Dorian bi, he's not Dorian anymore. He's backstory and his relationship with his father made him that man who we meet and gave the reason to him to leave Tevinter. I don't really into his backstory, but still, it's an important part of his life, and formed him. If you wants change his sexuality, you wants a random black haired, attractive man, not him. I don't get it.
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Post by Rouccoco on Jan 3, 2018 14:06:47 GMT
Alright, this is by far the worst thing you've said in this entire thread. I'm out. He's gay, gay, gay and no, he's not going to "change his mind" about women just because he's no longer in Tevinter. Apparently that's a SJW concept and gay men will be perfectly happy staying in heterosexual relationships, because platonic love
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 14:08:23 GMT
I already spoke about this somewhere, and the others already said many things, I just have one remained: If you made Dorian bi, he's not Dorian anymore. He's backstory and his relationship with his father made him that man who we meet and gave the reason to him to leave Tevinter. I don't really into his backstory, but still, it's an important part of his life, and formed him. If you wants change his sexuality, you wants a random black haired, attractive man, not him. I don't get it. If I wanted to romance a random male who is simply dark-haired, Blackwall would do just fine. He is a treasure trove of both the dark hair and randomness. And he is straight. I should be smitten.
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 3, 2018 15:44:52 GMT
Nobody can bring him or herself to fall in love ever. Male, or female that does not matter, it’s absurd. You are either in love or not. And Dorian is by definition not in love with women, which for some reason you can't grasp. You remind me of Kurt from Glee, and not in a good way, with this fantasy you have about someone of the wrong orientation despite the fact that it cannot work by definition. But that's exactly why Jade wants to rewrite Dorian, so it does work. It makes the character worse, perhaps, but that's not your problem. Nobody's making you use the mod.
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Post by shechinah on Jan 3, 2018 15:51:34 GMT
I should probably hurry with my reply. It looks like this thread might be approaching closing hour.
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Post by arvaarad on Jan 3, 2018 15:55:17 GMT
I should probably hurry with my reply. It looks like this thread might be approaching closing hour. Who could have predicted such a result??? It started out so well!
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 3, 2018 15:55:54 GMT
So Bioware isn't decreasing player choice (wrt romance, at the very least) they're just not maximizing player choice. Then you'd have to establish why maximizing player choice is or what should be their goal, why it's superior to anyone else's preferences (like set or realistic characters where their sexuality is intractable part of who they are, or how playersexuality has a deleterious effect on how the characters are written or interacted with by the player ie always in terms or romance never the more core character etc) to the point where arguing for it is justified on a rational not preferential level and I mean good luck with that. You'd need to establish this anyway even if you could prove that Bioware was decreasing player choice. This to say: a lot of pages of hair-pulling probably could have been avoided by just saying "I liked DA2's playersexuality." This has only been happening for like ... 15 years or so now, lol. It's an argument that has no end. My argument will always be that cRPGs are founded on tabletop RPGs and therefore its roots are in player created stories. Player created stories are stories the player creates themselves. cRPGs weren't able to accommodate this feature in the 80s and 90s due to lack of computing power and therefore relied solely on the battle aspect of RPGs. In other words cRPGs became battle sims where player choice only affected the combat. Now that technology has reached a satisfactory level, more player choice and freedom should be incorporated as it's the defining aspect of an RPG (not stories, but player created stories). It's not just a viewpoint with fans either, J Sawyer (no introduction needed of course) for example defines an RPG not on the amount of dialogue but on the degree of player choice in a game. Of course other people have different opinions *wrinkles nose* Although it's conceptually impossible with anything like current technology for Bio to handle their LIs and such with the collaborative process a PnP GM can use. They can't rewrite characters on-the-fly. Characters can be written broadly and generically enough to fit everybody, but that imposes its own costs.
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Post by pavellaning on Jan 3, 2018 16:02:44 GMT
I just have to laugh. The idea of asking him this in front of his father is so weird to me. It just seems so wildly inappropriate for how I think of such questions. I can see asking him later on, at some other time, but not just then! Same if the Inquisitor picks the "I'll need you to explain that." option. In the middle of that dramatic scene with Halward you suddenly get: Dorian: Did I stutter? Men, and the company thereof. As in sex. Surely you've heard of it. Inquisitor: I've more than heard of it, actually. Dorian: No! The Herald of Andraste? I am shocked and scandalized. Inquisitor: Such sarcasm. Dorian: You're not exactly subtle, oh Lord Inquisitor. Now I'm trying to think how they'll write that verse of the Chant. Halward has to break into their flirty dialogue to get the fight back on track. I had my Lavellan pick that conversation choice. It was glorious.
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Post by Dirk on Jan 3, 2018 16:27:45 GMT
I just have to laugh. The idea of asking him this in front of his father is so weird to me. It just seems so wildly inappropriate for how I think of such questions. I can see asking him later on, at some other time, but not just then! Same if the Inquisitor picks the "I'll need you to explain that." option. In the middle of that dramatic scene with Halward you suddenly get: Dorian: Did I stutter? Men, and the company thereof. As in sex. Surely you've heard of it. Inquisitor: I've more than heard of it, actually. Dorian: No! The Herald of Andraste? I am shocked and scandalized. Inquisitor: Such sarcasm. Dorian: You're not exactly subtle, oh Lord Inquisitor. Now I'm trying to think how they'll write that verse of the Chant. Halward has to break into their flirty dialogue to get the fight back on track. Oh yes, this is one of my favorite conversations that I missed in my first playthrough. Apart from being funny, it is one of the few times in the game that lets me express my sexuality. I hope there are more conversation options like this in the next game.
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Post by pavellaning on Jan 3, 2018 16:29:18 GMT
Same if the Inquisitor picks the "I'll need you to explain that." option. In the middle of that dramatic scene with Halward you suddenly get: Dorian: Did I stutter? Men, and the company thereof. As in sex. Surely you've heard of it. Inquisitor: I've more than heard of it, actually. Dorian: No! The Herald of Andraste? I am shocked and scandalized. Inquisitor: Such sarcasm. Dorian: You're not exactly subtle, oh Lord Inquisitor. Now I'm trying to think how they'll write that verse of the Chant. Halward has to break into their flirty dialogue to get the fight back on track. Oh yes, this is one of my favorite conversations that I missed in my first playthrough. Apart from being funny, it is one of the few times in the game that lets me express my sexuality. I hope there are more conversation options like this in the next game. It's one of my favorites as well. I am sure Halward hates both of my m!Lavellans but who cares Dorian is happy.
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Post by Gilli on Jan 3, 2018 16:40:10 GMT
Oh yes, this is one of my favorite conversations that I missed in my first playthrough. Apart from being funny, it is one of the few times in the game that lets me express my sexuality. I hope there are more conversation options like this in the next game. It's one of my favorites as well. I am sure Halward hates both of my m!Lavellans but who cares Dorian is happy. I couldn't remember what I took, so I looked at my screenshots and ofc I don't have pics of the dialogue option. I did find this, when looking through my tumblr posts.
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Post by pavellaning on Jan 3, 2018 16:51:15 GMT
Imagine Halward's response to a wedding invitation to his son and an elf. It almost makes me wish that he hadn't been assassinated.
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