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Post by warden on Jan 10, 2018 13:06:50 GMT
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Post by PillarBiter on Jan 10, 2018 13:27:26 GMT
1) learn to think for yourself 2) dont click on clickbait 3) there are already more intelligent posts about this on this forum. 4) You DONT get e-peen points for trying to wreak havoc.
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Post by warden on Jan 10, 2018 15:14:00 GMT
1) learn to think for yourself 2) dont click on clickbait 3) there are already more intelligent posts about this on this forum. 4) You DONT get e-peen points for trying to wreak havoc.
i will think and do what i want and what i please thanks, seems more like you are angry cause i don't think like you. doesn't matter what i get, or how much the post is viewed or not, i just share it. calm down and enjoy, and get that inflamed nerve relaxed.
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Post by PillarBiter on Jan 10, 2018 15:19:48 GMT
1) learn to think for yourself 2) dont click on clickbait 3) there are already more intelligent posts about this on this forum. 4) You DONT get e-peen points for trying to wreak havoc.
i will think and do what i want and what i please thanks, seems more like you are angry cause i don't think like you. doesn't matter what i get, or how much the post is viewed or not, i just share it. calm down and enjoy, and get that inflamed nerve relaxed. *handwave*
"I don't want to sell you death sticks"
*Handwave*
"I wanna go home and rethink my life"
By jove, I think you cured me! I think I might go merry about in the garden!
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Post by warden on Jan 10, 2018 15:22:33 GMT
i will think and do what i want and what i please thanks, seems more like you are angry cause i don't think like you. doesn't matter what i get, or how much the post is viewed or not, i just share it. calm down and enjoy, and get that inflamed nerve relaxed. *handwave*
"I don't want to sell you death sticks"
*Handwave*
"I wanna go home and rethink my life"
By jove, I think you cured me! I think I might go merry about in the garden!
glad you like it, all for my friends.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 10, 2018 15:32:05 GMT
Ah, Yong's clickbait... 1. We don't even know if Anthem will have PvP 2. If we do and I get slaughtered every time, I wouldn't begrudge a mechanic that matched me with slightly weaker players that suck as much as I do. (that's not EA 'deciding' if I win or lose matches) 3. Developing a game that people enjoy and want to play more is a good thing, surely?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 15:52:16 GMT
I agree in general with SofaJockey points, plus, if you read the actual article, the retention numbers are barely significantly different from a completely random matches, I.e. matches that do not count in the skill, but both random and the improved help with the long-term retention a little bit when matching is done only on skill. Even if this algorithm is applied to somehow promote purchasing the extras as you play the game, if anything, the article shows that this specific manipulation has very little impact. And if you read the actual numbers, the premise is that the retention is only 50% to start with. Which is why they want more people to keep playing, as 50% people who initially liked the game saying “screw that, i’ve Had enough” after a few bad matches quickly drains the pool of players. So, they will have to either adjust matching algorithm or never make another PvP game again, since, really, it is demonstrable through this article itself that people do not like to persist in PvP.
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Post by rras1994 on Jan 10, 2018 16:04:49 GMT
I agree in general with SofaJockey points, plus, if you read the actual article, the retention numbers are barely significantly different from a completely random matches, I.e. matches that do not count in the skill, but both random and the improved help with the long-term retention a little bit when matching is done only on skill. Even if this algorithm is applied to somehow promote purchasing the extras as you play the game, if anything, the article shows that this specific manipulation has very little impact. And if you read the actual numbers, the premise is that the retention is only 50% to start with. Which is why they want more people to keep playing, as 50% people who initially liked the game saying “screw that, i’ve Had enough” after a few bad matches quickly drains the pool of players. So, they will have to either adjust matching algorithm or never make another PvP game again, since, really, it is demonstrable through this article itself that people do not like to persist in PvP. It's not unusual though to have players drop off dramatically though, no matter the mode - for example the completion rate of single player campaigns I think is actually less than 50 %, the people who play multiple playthorughs are in the slim majority - it wouldn't surprise me if mulitplayer was similar, just seems they have a bigger player base to start with if you look at the highest selling games.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jan 10, 2018 16:29:29 GMT
Ah, Yong's clickbait... 1. We don't even know if Anthem will have PvP 2. If we do and I get slaughtered every time, I wouldn't begrudge a mechanic that matched me with slightly weaker players that suck as much as I do. (that's not EA 'deciding' if I win or lose matches) 3. Developing a game that people enjoy and want to play more is a good thing, surely? IF I happen to get Anthem I'm gonna "1v1 me!" you. You're up for some pain in the Thunderdome, bro!
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XBL Gamertag: uprightshark
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Post by uprightshark on Jan 10, 2018 16:30:26 GMT
I agree in general with SofaJockey points, plus, if you read the actual article, the retention numbers are barely significantly different from a completely random matches, I.e. matches that do not count in the skill, but both random and the improved help with the long-term retention a little bit when matching is done only on skill. Even if this algorithm is applied to somehow promote purchasing the extras as you play the game, if anything, the article shows that this specific manipulation has very little impact. And if you read the actual numbers, the premise is that the retention is only 50% to start with. Which is why they want more people to keep playing, as 50% people who initially liked the game saying “screw that, i’ve Had enough” after a few bad matches quickly drains the pool of players. So, they will have to either adjust matching algorithm or never make another PvP game again, since, really, it is demonstrable through this article itself that people do not like to persist in PvP. It's not unusual though to have players drop off dramatically though, no matter the mode - for example the completion rate of single player campaigns I think is actually less than 50 %, the people who play multiple playthorughs are in the slim majority - it wouldn't surprise me if mulitplayer was similar, just seems they have a bigger player base to start with if you look at the highest selling games. Though purely anecdotal, I suspect you are right. I believe there is a high percentage of gamer's go for the next big thing, but get bored quickly and have huge libraries of unfinished games. I doubt there is any difference between SP and MP in this area. That is why developers need to keep coming up with the next great thing that grabs immediate attention, or get roasted and dropped. I think we can add MEA in that list, as unrealistic expectations caused its death ultimately. The only game that seems to avoid this fact is Call of Duty, which has produced the same !@#$ product for I can't remember how long and it just keeps selling and has incredible loyalty, with even old games maintaining an MP following. They even rehashed old MP maps into their new games and it still didn't matter, people keep buying the trash. Last great COD was MW3 and BO2 ... all trash after that. If your into shooters, Battlefield is 10X the product, but doesn't matter, COD is KING!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 16:36:38 GMT
I agree in general with SofaJockey points, plus, if you read the actual article, the retention numbers are barely significantly different from a completely random matches, I.e. matches that do not count in the skill, but both random and the improved help with the long-term retention a little bit when matching is done only on skill. Even if this algorithm is applied to somehow promote purchasing the extras as you play the game, if anything, the article shows that this specific manipulation has very little impact. And if you read the actual numbers, the premise is that the retention is only 50% to start with. Which is why they want more people to keep playing, as 50% people who initially liked the game saying “screw that, i’ve Had enough” after a few bad matches quickly drains the pool of players. So, they will have to either adjust matching algorithm or never make another PvP game again, since, really, it is demonstrable through this article itself that people do not like to persist in PvP. It's not unusual though to have players drop off dramatically though, no matter the mode - for example the completion rate of single player campaigns I think is actually less than 50 %, the people who play multiple playthorughs are in the slim majority - it wouldn't surprise me if mulitplayer was similar, just seems they have a bigger player base to start with if you look at the highest selling games. That’s why the artyicles came in tandem, with another one addressing dynamic difficulty adjustment to keep the SP player interested/improve retention. At least that’s how I understand the intent of those two simulations.
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Post by biggydx on Jan 10, 2018 17:02:10 GMT
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 10, 2018 17:09:11 GMT
Ah, Yong's clickbait... 1. We don't even know if Anthem will have PvP 2. If we do and I get slaughtered every time, I wouldn't begrudge a mechanic that matched me with slightly weaker players that suck as much as I do. (that's not EA 'deciding' if I win or lose matches) 3. Developing a game that people enjoy and want to play more is a good thing, surely? IF I happen to get Anthem I'm gonna "1v1 me!" you. You're up for some pain in the Thunderdome, bro! That's fighting talk. My Javelin stands ready.
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Post by Cyonan on Jan 10, 2018 17:30:55 GMT
Matchmaking systems have been designed more to keep players playing the game than anything else for a long time now. This system is really just a new way to accomplish the same thing that honestly it would be more surprising if they haven't been doing it already for years.
I can already tell in most games that if I'm on a losing streak the enemy team gets suspiciously bad until I win a few, because constantly losing increases the chance that a player will stop playing the game. The best matchmaking systems are just the ones subtle enough to trick you into thinking that it's being fair.
and it was only a matter of time before companies figured they could use the system to try and make more money. The underlying problem here is still the nature of micro-transactions and loot boxes in general rather than a matchmaking system.
Though this is still all dependent on Anthem having a PvP system. This sort of thing is not nearly as effective in PvE, as the only thing they can really do is group you up with overgeared people who will carry you.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jan 10, 2018 17:32:28 GMT
But..., but EA slogan: "It's in the game."?!!? I'm going loco over here!
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Post by Sartoz on Jan 10, 2018 17:57:25 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Doesn't mean the Creative Director won't change his mind down the road or EA pushes to include it.
Either way, Brenon's Gamerant's interview is revealing in the fact that he admits Bio is "internally discussing" the loot box economy but never outright dismissed it from Anthem. Personally, their "discussion" is all about how to screw the players with a smile. Meaning the core game mechanics will have LBs as seen in the trailer. Plus, if Anthem has a Trade Economy/Market, there may be in-game manipulation to artificially increase the value of cosmetic items. Stupid to buy them but game addicts may see it differently as WHO wants to classify game addiction as a disease.
Also, note that applying for a patent means that EA sees some future value in it. While Anthem may not have it, future games probably will. Remember, EA is all about revenue and appeasing their investors. I have yet to see EA's concerns about squeezing the player base dry.
At the moment, I'm sitting on the fence regarding DDA. It may increase my enjoyment if the difficulty is adjusted to my abilities... who knows? But, if it's there to manipulate me to execute MTs then I know the core game design's priority is "how to continually make money after the player paid full price for the game".
🌸
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N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: uprightshark
Posts: 85 Likes: 95
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Post by uprightshark on Jan 10, 2018 18:10:30 GMT
But..., but EA slogan: "It's in the game."?!!? I'm going loco over here! I haven't heard them use that one for some time ... lol
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Post by Sartoz on Jan 10, 2018 18:21:38 GMT
Matchmaking systems have been designed more to keep players playing the game than anything else for a long time now. This system is really just a new way to accomplish the same thing that honestly it would be more surprising if they haven't been doing it already for years. I can already tell in most games that if I'm on a losing streak the enemy team gets suspiciously bad until I win a few, because constantly losing increases the chance that a player will stop playing the game. The best matchmaking systems are just the ones subtle enough to trick you into thinking that it's being fair. and it was only a matter of time before companies figured they could use the system to try and make more money. The underlying problem here is still the nature of micro-transactions and loot boxes in general rather than a matchmaking system. Though this is still all dependent on Anthem having a PvP system. This sort of thing is not nearly as effective in PvE, as the only thing they can really do is group you up with overgeared people who will carry you. -(_ANTHEM_)-
Hmm... interesting.
My understanding is that Anthem internet connection is a P2P system with EA servers to control authentication, quests, gear, levels, matchmaking and cosmetics/LB economy. That being true, PvP team size may be very restricted due to bandwidth and lag concerns and PvP becomes a "non concern".
So, how will a ten years game-as-a-service model keep that online revenue stream going? Where in the game will incentives to buy come from? There are, after all, limits to the number of "appealing cosmetics". Where is the hook to keep the player engaged? 🌸
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 10, 2018 18:27:01 GMT
So, how will a ten years game-as-a-service model keep that online revenue stream going? Where in the game will incentives to buy come from? There are, after all, limits to the number of "appealing cosmetics". Where is the hook to keep the player engaged? 🌸 Knowing the PvP / non-PvP status is really going to help with that question. If my buddy can buy stuff that indirectly helps me win, (because we're on the same team) I don't mind that so much. If my buddy can buy stuff that allows them to beat me (in PvP), that's more of an issue.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 10, 2018 19:37:26 GMT
Aside from that one video is there any real evidence aside from what Yang made up in his head that this is designed to make people spend money? After reading the papers myself it looks like it is focused more on player retention over spending.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jan 10, 2018 20:37:04 GMT
Matchmaking systems have been designed more to keep players playing the game than anything else for a long time now. This system is really just a new way to accomplish the same thing that honestly it would be more surprising if they haven't been doing it already for years. I can already tell in most games that if I'm on a losing streak the enemy team gets suspiciously bad until I win a few, because constantly losing increases the chance that a player will stop playing the game. The best matchmaking systems are just the ones subtle enough to trick you into thinking that it's being fair. and it was only a matter of time before companies figured they could use the system to try and make more money. The underlying problem here is still the nature of micro-transactions and loot boxes in general rather than a matchmaking system. Though this is still all dependent on Anthem having a PvP system. This sort of thing is not nearly as effective in PvE, as the only thing they can really do is group you up with overgeared people who will carry you. -(_ANTHEM_)-
Hmm... interesting.
My understanding is that Anthem internet connection is a P2P system with EA servers to control authentication, quests, gear, levels, matchmaking and cosmetics/LB economy. That being true, PvP team size may be very restricted due to bandwidth and lag concerns and PvP becomes a "non concern".
So, how will a ten years game-as-a-service model keep that online revenue stream going? Where in the game will incentives to buy come from? There are, after all, limits to the number of "appealing cosmetics". Where is the hook to keep the player engaged? 🌸
Warframe does an interesting job at that. It started out as unfinished in kinda early access, but with the mtx and the content coming together they never really said "We are released." I think they don't want to either as long as they have ideas to add content.
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Post by biggydx on Jan 10, 2018 22:46:08 GMT
I'll try to respond to these piece by piece Doesn't mean the Creative Director won't change his mind down the road or EA pushes to include it. Ultimately, yes. It will likely come down to EA as to whether or not the game will include lootbox style microtransactions. Assuming the game comes with live updates, there will need to be a steady source of revenue for the development team. While I would prefer to simply have the items available to be bought outright (ie. No RNG), depending upon whether or not the items offered are available to be earned in game is most important. The issue surrounding Destiny 2's Eververse right now is three-fold. - 1) With the endgame grind being shallow, and with Eververse containing a large amount of available items, players perceive the Eververse store as a means of profiting off of content that used to be grinded for Destiny 1
- 2) Many of the items within the Eververse store are RNG-based, when originally in Destiny 1, things like emotes and ornaments could be bought outright
- 3) The items in the store are on seasonal rotations, meaning they'll no longer exist for players to get from Bright Engrams, or for purchase. This dilemma is also exacerbated by the fact that there is limited inventory space to hold so many items
For me, the biggest mistake Anthem can make is in locking MTX content behind a price wall, with no other means of getting said items. I'm not sure how things will shake out with their MTX system, but fingers crossed that it wont be absolutely egregious. Personally, their "discussion" is all about how to screw the players with a smile. If you actually delve further into that reply he made, about how they're having an internal discussion, you would find that Brenon also said that a good number of devs working on Anthem don't like the lootbox microtransaction system. He also says that he doesn't like it when certain items are only available with premium currency. www.reddit.com/r/AnthemTheGame/comments/7p9m30/topical_megathread_lootboxes_and_anthem/Meaning the core game mechanics will have LBs as seen in the trailer. If you're talking about that Jarra's Wrath weapon drop in the E3 trailer, that's just a regular gear item drop; not a lootbox. This is something indicative of loot-based games in general, where you have some modified RNG chance to get an item. I will say that looter shooters, that are often seen in tech demos, will normally ensure that a high-rarity item is dropped during the demo; to grab the attention of the audience. Borderlands, Destiny, the Division, and many other loot-based games do this. Plus, if Anthem has a Trade Economy/Market, there may be in-game manipulation to artificially increase the value of cosmetic items. Many games that practice both trading and MTX don't really have this problem. For example, Warframe and Path of Exile both allow you to trade items, and typically there is a standard item value associated with each item that is traded. There are a number of websites in place that establish what the average "buying" price of an item is. Players can use resources like this in order to judge if they're being overpriced, or if the trader is under-selling. The currency used for trading could be premium currency (like in Warframe), or in-game currency (like in Path of Exile). This is all assuming Anthem will let you trade items in such a manner. They could go The Division route, where once you've acquired an item, you have a brief window to trade the item with someone in your squad. No currencies involved at all, though there may be a limit on how many trades you can make per day/week. All-in-all, I don't begrudge people for being skeptical about Anthem. I don't believe it would be this way if EA wasn't attached to the franchise. With the Star Wars season now out of the game, EA will likely start pushing out info on Anthem by the end of this quarter. Bioware's had a lot of time to see the rise (and fall) of some of the biggest shared-world and loot-based games, so they've got a lot of material to work with and improve upon.
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Post by Cyonan on Jan 11, 2018 21:54:24 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Hmm... interesting.
My understanding is that Anthem internet connection is a P2P system with EA servers to control authentication, quests, gear, levels, matchmaking and cosmetics/LB economy. That being true, PvP team size may be very restricted due to bandwidth and lag concerns and PvP becomes a "non concern".
So, how will a ten years game-as-a-service model keep that online revenue stream going? Where in the game will incentives to buy come from? There are, after all, limits to the number of "appealing cosmetics". Where is the hook to keep the player engaged? 🌸
As far as I know they haven't said what kind of connection it would be, but P2P would invite all sorts of cheating and latency problems. I think that cosmetic micro-transactions go further than a lot of people think that they will. It's been a very lucrative model for League of Legends to sell skins for champions. My understanding is that while they do sell champions directly, they make more in skins since a single champion is pretty easy to unlock regardless of which one it is. The thing that's supposed to keep players hooked is the game itself being fun and releasing new content over those 10 years to keep players interested in the game with new things to do.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 11, 2018 22:28:46 GMT
Aside from that one video is there any real evidence aside from what Yang made up in his head that this is designed to make people spend money? After reading the papers myself it looks like it is focused more on player retention over spending. Not really. But EA's recent poor behavior is making attack video's very appealing/lucrative for folk like Yong, Jim Sterling, Angry Joe, etc. Personally, I still find Jim Sterling on the valid side of salty. Joe gets it right fairly equally with overcooking it. Yong particularly is over-reaching, in my view, to the point that his own journalistic credibility is not matching the standards he demands of the game publishers. He's taking the worst case possibility and serving that up as fact.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
FatherOfPearl
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Post by Pearl on Jan 13, 2018 3:15:24 GMT
>unironically citing wccftech
wew
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