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Post by mikaelnovasun on Aug 25, 2017 11:31:15 GMT
Fortunately my Inquisitor was incredibly merciful, so it is totally in character for her to want to give Solas the same benefit of the doubt as she gave all the Skyhold prisoners (including Thom Rainier). Second chance for you! Second chance for you. And you! And you! And you! If everyone has spirits and we had any control over our Inquisitors's spirits hers would almost certainly be a spirit of hope. That's a lot like how my Lavellan was, but by the time Trespasser came around she was a little worn and the revelations in Trespasser definitely got to her. Still, over all a hopeful spirit, but maybe she leans more to Perseverance now. My Lavellan was the same, a "recruiting judge", but Solas has already had a few chances to change his ways but his Pride, and ego get in the way. He truly believes he is the best person to right his wrong; in trying to save the elves his decision and actions doomed them to slavery, loss of their magic and immortality. He tries to fix it and it results in nearly destroying the world(DAI storyline), so instead of taking a step back and rethinking it he betrays Mythal(Flemeth), stealing her power possibly her immortal soul, and sets out to try again. He didn't ask Flemeth/Mythal for help or her opionon on how to proceed, he just takes thinking he knows what is best living up to his name. He walks away from the love of his life(Lavellen) knowing his actions could mean her death. I don't have much hope for redeeming him and neither does my inquisitor. Add to the fact that he broke her heart, shattered her beliefs, the only thing keeping her going isn't the thought of redeeming him and having a future with him. It is the goal of stopping him before he hurts anyone else, and threatens the world further through his hubris. I love Solas because he is such a complex character, but if he is redeemable in DA4 I will be disappointed. He walks away from Lavellen not once but twice. And if a new protagongist redeems him without Lavellen present it is a disservice to his character.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Aug 25, 2017 13:57:17 GMT
My Lavellan was the same, a "recruiting judge", but Solas has already had a few chances to change his ways but his Pride, and ego get in the way. He truly believes he is the best person to right his wrong; in trying to save the elves his decision and actions doomed them to slavery, loss of their magic and immortality. He tries to fix it and it results in nearly destroying the world(DAI storyline), so instead of taking a step back and rethinking it he betrays Mythal(Flemeth), stealing her power possibly her immortal soul, and sets out to try again. He didn't ask Flemeth/Mythal for help or her opionon on how to proceed, he just takes thinking he knows what is best living up to his name. He walks away from the love of his life(Lavellen) knowing his actions could mean her death. I don't have much hope for redeeming him and neither does my inquisitor. Add to the fact that he broke her heart, shattered her beliefs, the only thing keeping her going isn't the thought of redeeming him and having a future with him. It is the goal of stopping him before he hurts anyone else, and threatens the world further through his hubris. I love Solas because he is such a complex character, but if he is redeemable in DA4 I will be disappointed. He walks away from Lavellen not once but twice. And if a new protagongist redeems him without Lavellen present it is a disservice to his character. I'm fascinated by Solas' pride and how it blinds him. And I agree with most of your points but the knowledge that he did whatever he did to Flemythal is something we players know, not our Inquisitors. The Inquisitors can maybe guess that something bad has happened to Mythal based on Solas' last, unfinished fresco, but it could also have been a depiction of the defeat of Corypheus' blighted dragon. After Trespasser they might clue in that the giant wolf in that fresco is not them but the Dread Wolf, but they still might not make the intuitive leap that the fallen dragon is Flemythal. From what we saw in the DAI post-credits scene with Solas and Flemythal, I feel that she willingly let him take what he wants. Knowing her she has something up her sleeve and I'm not sure whether she is playing Solas or whether Solas is playing her. But I feel like it's probably Flemythal playing Solas. She has been active for centuries in the world he created, while he slept and could only observe conflicting reflections of the world through the Fade. He may be overlooking things because of this and because of his pride/sense that he's the only person who can fix things. Anyway, I think Flemythal has been playing a long game that is nearing its goals now and Solas taking whatever he took from her was just another move in her game. We know that she has survived apparent death before, plus Solas himself tells us that the first of his people are hard to kill. My Lavellan (in my head) is not standing idly by waiting for Solas to have his way with things. Yet, because he showed time and time again that he is a compassionate person who does not, ultimately, wish to harm people if he can avoid it, she'd be actively seeking out a compromise that allows the Veil to be lowered slowly and with less catastrophic effects. If there is no way of doing that then she'd try to help him see reason or find out if there is some greater good to be achieved by removing the Veil. (Like ending the Blight once and for all, though if that's the case it seems like it would have been something Solas should have mentioned to us in Trespasser.) And if that fails, and there is no stopping him other than by killing him, she would do that. But killing him would be a very last resort sort of thing. So, for me, I'll be really disappointed if there is no path to redemption for him in future DA games.
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Post by Elessara on Aug 25, 2017 21:25:42 GMT
My Lavellan was the same, a "recruiting judge", but Solas has already had a few chances to change his ways but his Pride, and ego get in the way. He truly believes he is the best person to right his wrong; in trying to save the elves his decision and actions doomed them to slavery, loss of their magic and immortality. He tries to fix it and it results in nearly destroying the world(DAI storyline), so instead of taking a step back and rethinking it he betrays Mythal(Flemeth), stealing her power possibly her immortal soul, and sets out to try again. He didn't ask Flemeth/Mythal for help or her opionon on how to proceed, he just takes thinking he knows what is best living up to his name. He walks away from the love of his life(Lavellen) knowing his actions could mean her death. I don't have much hope for redeeming him and neither does my inquisitor. Add to the fact that he broke her heart, shattered her beliefs, the only thing keeping her going isn't the thought of redeeming him and having a future with him. It is the goal of stopping him before he hurts anyone else, and threatens the world further through his hubris. I love Solas because he is such a complex character, but if he is redeemable in DA4 I will be disappointed. He walks away from Lavellen not once but twice. And if a new protagongist redeems him without Lavellen present it is a disservice to his character. I'm fascinated by Solas' pride and how it blinds him. And I agree with most of your points but the knowledge that he did whatever he did to Flemythal is something we players know, not our Inquisitors. The Inquisitors can maybe guess that something bad has happened to Mythal based on Solas' last, unfinished fresco, but it could also have been a depiction of the defeat of Corypheus' blighted dragon. After Trespasser they might clue in that the giant wolf in that fresco is not them but the Dread Wolf, but they still might not make the intuitive leap that the fallen dragon is Flemythal. From what we saw in the DAI post-credits scene with Solas and Flemythal, I feel that she willingly let him take what he wants. Knowing her she has something up her sleeve and I'm not sure whether she is playing Solas or whether Solas is playing her. But I feel like it's probably Flemythal playing Solas. She has been active for centuries in the world he created while he slept and could only observe conflicting reflections of the world through the Fade. He may be overlooking things because of this and because of his pride/sense that he's the only person who can fix things. Anyway, I think Flemythal has been playing a long game that is nearing its goals now and Solas taking whatever he took from her was just another move in her game. We know that she has survived apparent death before, plus Solas himself tells us that the first of his people are hard to kill. My Lavellan (in my head) is not standing idly by waiting for Solas to have his way with things. Yet, because he showed time and time again that he is a compassionate person who does not, ultimately, wish to harm people if he can avoid it, she'd be actively seeking out a compromise that allows the Veil to be lowered slowly and with less catastrophic effects. If there is no way of doing that then she'd try to help him see reason or find out if there is some greater good to be achieved by removing the Veil. (Like ending the Blight once and for all, though if that's the case it seems like it would have been something Solas should have mentioned to us in Trespasser.) And if that fails, and there is no stopping him other than by killing him, she would do that. But killing him would be a very last resort sort of thing. So, for me, I'll be really disappointed if there is no path to redemption for him in future DA games. I'm pretty sure we're not the same person ... but this post has me doubting.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Aug 27, 2017 1:10:36 GMT
I'm fascinated by Solas' pride and how it blinds him. And I agree with most of your points but the knowledge that he did whatever he did to Flemythal is something we players know, not our Inquisitors. The Inquisitors can maybe guess that something bad has happened to Mythal based on Solas' last, unfinished fresco, but it could also have been a depiction of the defeat of Corypheus' blighted dragon. After Trespasser they might clue in that the giant wolf in that fresco is not them but the Dread Wolf, but they still might not make the intuitive leap that the fallen dragon is Flemythal. From what we saw in the DAI post-credits scene with Solas and Flemythal, I feel that she willingly let him take what he wants. Knowing her she has something up her sleeve and I'm not sure whether she is playing Solas or whether Solas is playing her. But I feel like it's probably Flemythal playing Solas. She has been active for centuries in the world he created while he slept and could only observe conflicting reflections of the world through the Fade. He may be overlooking things because of this and because of his pride/sense that he's the only person who can fix things. Anyway, I think Flemythal has been playing a long game that is nearing its goals now and Solas taking whatever he took from her was just another move in her game. We know that she has survived apparent death before, plus Solas himself tells us that the first of his people are hard to kill. My Lavellan (in my head) is not standing idly by waiting for Solas to have his way with things. Yet, because he showed time and time again that he is a compassionate person who does not, ultimately, wish to harm people if he can avoid it, she'd be actively seeking out a compromise that allows the Veil to be lowered slowly and with less catastrophic effects. If there is no way of doing that then she'd try to help him see reason or find out if there is some greater good to be achieved by removing the Veil. (Like ending the Blight once and for all, though if that's the case it seems like it would have been something Solas should have mentioned to us in Trespasser.) And if that fails, and there is no stopping him other than by killing him, she would do that. But killing him would be a very last resort sort of thing. So, for me, I'll be really disappointed if there is no path to redemption for him in future DA games. I'm pretty sure we're not the same person ... but this post has me doubting. You're both in my head. Stahp.
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Post by Solas on Aug 27, 2017 22:32:22 GMT
i am so torrrrrrn... part of me still wants and hopes that the inky returns as protag in da4 (because Solas storyline relevancy), the other part of me is all excited and started building/concepting/collecting insp+aesthetic shit for my hypothetical da4 PC................
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 27, 2017 22:45:44 GMT
i am so torrrrrrn... part of me still wants and hopes that the inky returns as protag in da4 (because Solas storyline relevancy), the other part of me is all excited and started building/concepting/collecting insp+aesthetic shit for my hypothetical da4 PC................ I'm trying not to even think about it. There are so many potential routes DA4 can take, I'm actually trying my darnedest to avoid thinking too much about its details, PC included - yea, I speculate like crazy and I am certainly rooting for some things (dual protag, being able to redeem Solas without it turning into a disaster and imminent ugly sob-fest, etc), but try not to build an image of DA4 in my head, just in case the series takes a different direction.
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Post by Solas on Aug 27, 2017 23:54:26 GMT
i am so torrrrrrn... part of me still wants and hopes that the inky returns as protag in da4 (because Solas storyline relevancy), the other part of me is all excited and started building/concepting/collecting insp+aesthetic shit for my hypothetical da4 PC................ I'm trying not even think about it. There are so many potential routes DA4 can take, I'm actually trying my darnedest to avoid thinking too much about its details, PC included - yea, I speculate like crazy and I am certainly rooting for some things (dual protag, being able to redeem Solas without it turning into a disaster and imminent ugly sob-fest, etc), but try not to build an image of DA4 in my head, just in case the series takes a different direction. how to explain.. that stuff doesnt really bother me, I'm pretty gd with keepin the ideas vague and fluid 'what-ifs', and with adapting things to fit as new info comes out/not being disappointed or impacted when things take a different direction. its more a series of concepts and ballin around different potential possibilities. just some creative exercise almost like collecting pins together on pinterest or sth. I think it was inevitable I'd kick back into lookin to da4 like this since andromeda kicked the bucket. idk, I cant really engage with my Ryder right now. an aside: certainly hope that if its a new PC, any Hawke in DA:I-esque appearance of the inky is handled better. hawke in dai was by no means a disaster but it was jarring to hear my hawke blab about blood mages when she is a blood mage..
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 28, 2017 0:02:42 GMT
I'm trying not even think about it. There are so many potential routes DA4 can take, I'm actually trying my darnedest to avoid thinking too much about its details, PC included - yea, I speculate like crazy and I am certainly rooting for some things (dual protag, being able to redeem Solas without it turning into a disaster and imminent ugly sob-fest, etc), but try not to build an image of DA4 in my head, just in case the series takes a different direction. how to explain.. that stuff doesnt really bother me, I'm pretty gd with keepin the ideas vague and fluid 'what-ifs', and with adapting things to fit as new info comes out/not being disappointed or impacted when things take a different direction. its more a series of concepts and ballin around different potential possibilities. just some creative exercise almost like collecting pins together on pinterest or sth. I think it was inevitable I'd kick back into lookin to da4 like this since andromeda kicked the bucket. idk, I cant really engage with my Ryder right now. It's not like I have massive problems adapting, but I try not to think too much about any upcoming titles either way. I did this for Andromeda and I do this for Anthem - although I naturally will be way more engaged with DA, given that digging into world of Dragon Age has been one of my fav pasttimes for a while now and it's hard not to be curious about what awaits us next. Well, the writers certainly have feedback for their little experiment with Hawke now and can expand from here... Although, IMO, with Inquisitor's intentionally vaguer tones which allows for more nuanced characterization, I can't see them doing them justice without giving us at least some control. But hey - I'm not a DA writer. Maybe they know how to figure this out.
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Post by morir_a_solas on Aug 28, 2017 4:43:23 GMT
how to explain.. that stuff doesnt really bother me, I'm pretty gd with keepin the ideas vague and fluid 'what-ifs', and with adapting things to fit as new info comes out/not being disappointed or impacted when things take a different direction. its more a series of concepts and ballin around different potential possibilities. just some creative exercise almost like collecting pins together on pinterest or sth. I think it was inevitable I'd kick back into lookin to da4 like this since andromeda kicked the bucket. idk, I cant really engage with my Ryder right now. It's not like I have massive problems adapting, but I try not to think too much about any upcoming titles either way. I did this for Andromeda and I do this for Anthem - although I naturally will be way more engaged with DA, given that digging into world of Dragon Age has been one of my fav pasttimes for a while now and it's hard not to be curious what awaits us next. Well, the writers certainly have feedback for their little experiment with Hawke now and can expand from here... Although, IMO, with Inquisitor's intentionally vaguer tones which allows for more nuanced characterization, I can't see them doing them justice without giving us at least some control. But hey - I'm not a DA writer. Maybe they know how to figure this out. it is so hard though, to bring your PC back, it's not like Morrigan or Cullen who everyone was very clear on who they were, for a PC everyone has a different idea of who the inquisitor is and no matter what the writers do someone will be unhappy. In my case, for example, I thought Hawke was simply perfect in DAI, her views and her personality were on point for my diplomatic rouge but that is because I by chance viewed her the same way they did; on the other hand lot of people had their immersion broken when the same Hawke was very different to their head cannon. I'm not sure I want to see a whole lot of the inquisitor before the final confrontation with Solas, maybe handled them like they did with the warden and have them appear to help you in the final battle and to deal with Solas based on your new protagonist "advice"
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Post by Theneras on Aug 28, 2017 11:45:47 GMT
I'm pretty sure we're not the same person ... but this post has me doubting. You're both in my head. Stahp. Hmm, have I multiplied and was unaware? This is what I think as well. I want to see them give us both options they gave us at the end of Trespasser. If they don't and my Quizzy isn't there to see it happen in some capacity I will be more than just a little disappointed.
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Post by NeverlandHunter on Aug 28, 2017 22:05:42 GMT
i am so torrrrrrn... part of me still wants and hopes that the inky returns as protag in da4 (because Solas storyline relevancy), the other part of me is all excited and started building/concepting/collecting insp+aesthetic shit for my hypothetical da4 PC................ I love creating characters, it's one of the reasons I favor the idea of the new protagonist, while I'll still mourn saying goodbye to my previous one. But I'm with midnight tea regarding not thinking about certain DA4 things already. I don't want to get an idea in my head and then have to bury it in the ground with a little tombstone that reads: "Here lies: My dreams Gone, but not forgotten Taken from us by a collision between the hype train and reality."
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Aug 29, 2017 3:06:22 GMT
While I try not to get my hopes up about any particular story issue, there is one thing I am greatly looking forward to. That egghead in glorious 4k.
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 29, 2017 3:10:54 GMT
While I try not to get my hopes up about any particular story issue, there is one thing I am greatly looking forward to. That egghead in glorious 4k. Will you be buying 4K TV just for DA4? I'm not sure about that, but late 2018-2019 is probably where I should be thinking about upgrading my computer.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Aug 29, 2017 3:20:48 GMT
While I try not to get my hopes up about any particular story issue, there is one thing I am greatly looking forward to. That egghead in glorious 4k. Will you be buying 4K TV just for DA4? I'm not sure about that, but late 2018-2019 is probably where I should be thinking about upgrading my computer. I actually upgraded for Andromeda, so I'm all set.
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Aug 29, 2017 13:25:57 GMT
Bioware is of full trolls I tell you FULL! I was playing through DAI again to get my Solas/Lavellen fix, and running around with Solas, Iron Bull and Varric. I got a Varric and Bull banter I somehow missed in my previous play throughs, where the two are talking about how Varric writes villains in his books. Varric says something along the lines of "But I like stories where the villain is the man beside you the whole time." And he continues "The best villains don't see themselves are evil. They are fighting for a good cause, willing to get their hands dirty."
I had my inquisitor facing Solas at the time. I head canoned that Solas was trying to keep a blank face while my Inquisitor gives him a curious/questioning glance as she finally takes note of his necklace, and its possible ties. She starts to get a small inkling of what he might be, and how conveniently he finds knowledge and hints in the fade when needed. But can't quite put it together because of their shared attraction and growing feelings blind her.
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Post by Solas on Aug 29, 2017 18:14:23 GMT
tfw you're thematically regearin ur blog to slant back towards DA4 away from mea (rip...) back into Solasmode and elf hell I guess
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 29, 2017 19:25:07 GMT
I was wondering if anybody has suggested the following theory before? You know at the end of DAI Solas meets with Flemeth and they seem old friends and we see all those statues of them together in Trespasser? Well, what if Bioware are trying to hook wink us? So Fen'Harel could be quite genuine in all the things he was saying about Mythal but even if she was the best of the Evanuris, she was still one of them.
Then think of the story. Fen'Harel managed to convince both sets of gods he was their friend, so he could trick them into imprisonment. But one of the gods had escaped him, Mythal, because the others had already killed her? So, still managing to convince her he was her friend, etc, was really a ruse so he could get close enough to kill her?
It is just that I am beginning to think that the reason things often seem contradictory or do not makes sense is because it is done that way in order to stop people finding out the truth.
I know it is just another theory in many but today something occurred to me about everything Bioware has told us thus far, what if it were done deliberately to confuse the truth and reflects the situation in Thedas.
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 29, 2017 19:50:28 GMT
I was wondering if anybody has suggested the following theory before? You know at the end of DAI Solas meets with Flemeth and they seem old friends and we see all those statues of them together in Trespasser? Well, what if Bioware are trying to hook wink us? So Fen'Harel could be quite genuine in all the things he was saying about Mythal but even if she was the best of the Evanuris, she was still one of them. Not sure how they "hook wink" us - I think it's fairly apparent, at least from story that is available to us, that no matter what Solas thought of Mythal, he still fought against the institution of Evanuris. That's actually not so controversial. We have multiple characters who stand against institutions, even if they're not fully against them and have friends and allies there - Cassandra and Seekers or the Chantry. Or Leliana and Chantry. You can't forget that decision to form Inquisition made Cass and Leli to be named heretics and they'd remain so if Inquisition didn't turn out to be the one solution to existing problems. Same with Dorian - he's extremely critical of Tevinter and technically goes against its interests once he joins Inquisition, but he does so because he cares about the Imperium and he's fighting for what thinks is best for it (even if it means things have to change drastically). And we have some hints that Mythal actually secretly supported Fen'Harel's rebellion - the Well did know the secret greeting known only to those the Dread Wolf trusted. Solas has explicitly told us that he's formed the Veil because the Evanuris murdered Mythal. Besides, just look at the post-epilogue scene - it's one of the moments where Solas is most emotional, near the edge of crying and the only time we see him readily seeking a hug from anyone (Lavellan usually has to stop him from running away first, lol). Mythal herself also sounds incredibly gentle and mournful. This is not a behavior of someone whose friendship was a ruse, even if that friendship in itself was complicated. Contradictory in one way? Things being complicated? Friends being on other sides of the barricade? Isn't it sort of what happened with Solas and Inquisitor? Then why couldn't it have happened with Solas and Evanuris? In my opinion, it's possible Mythal wasn't his only friend among Elvhen gods. They all may have been comrades in an earlier war Solas has mentioned and he's trusted them... until it was too late. Hence his trust issues and prattling about how betrayal of an ally is always worse. Maybe it's even the reason why he seemed to have began openly opposing Evanuris only after finding out something they've been doing in the mine he's hastily buried or why he's formed the Veil when they finally went too far. He may have refused to believe that people the people he's once called friends will kill one of them out of lust for power. Either way, there's obviously more to the story that we yet see.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Aug 30, 2017 3:48:45 GMT
tfw you're thematically regearin ur blog to slant back towards DA4 away from mea (rip...) back into Solasmode and elf hell I guess Welcome back, threaddad.
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Julilla
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Post by Julilla on Aug 30, 2017 16:52:44 GMT
Some of us have never left Solavellan hell...heh.
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 30, 2017 17:32:27 GMT
Some of us have never left Solavellan hell...heh. The couch is just too comfy and the remote is too far away to switch the channel...
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Post by Solas on Aug 30, 2017 18:52:03 GMT
kids I return to you from distant stars where I journeyed along the edge of light.. for a time, there was peace in my heart. not anymore though I'm back to thinking about my Inquisitor and therefore feeling sad and anguished gee thanks biower #thesearetherealconsequencesofcanningMEA #solavellancasualities
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Post by uirebhiril on Aug 31, 2017 2:05:45 GMT
Well, I had my round of happy sappy romance in Andromeda, so I guess it's back to the elf mines. May the next Dragon Age not suffer. Even if it delivers us here unto it.
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Post by Solas on Aug 31, 2017 3:50:45 GMT
Well, I had my round of happy sappy romance in Andromeda, so I guess it's back to the elf mines. May the next Dragon Age not suffer. Even if it delivers us here unto it.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Aug 31, 2017 5:15:03 GMT
It seems we are in need of a distraction from languishing in Solavellan hell, so I have a question. I have been wondering if there is any sort of irrefutable proof that Fen'Harel physically transforms into a wolf-like creature. I know we have all kind of statues and murals and stories and such depicting him as a wolf, but that isn't really physical evidence. We see Mythal depicted as a dragon, and we know that is accurate because we have physically seen her transform into one. The closest thing to proof I have personally found is a note in Tresspasser. Sharp teeth! That must be from wolf teeth! But then I realized that place was loaded with deepstalkers, so it could have been them. Anyone have anything else? Edit: Updated image to something easier to see.
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