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Post by Elessara on Feb 6, 2019 2:06:03 GMT
In a game series - one with direct sequels, as in a continuation of the story from one game to the next - I've always preferred recurring protagonists, especially if you can import save games/choices. For example, the Mass Effect trilogy. I feel like the character I'm playing is like an old friend, one I'm glad to see again. Dragon Age has been a little different. The story from DAO to DA2 wasn't a direct continuation. The beginning of DA2 actually took place whilst the story of DAO was still going so yeah it would have been quite impossible to have the Warden be the main character of DA2. If we look at DA2 to DAI, well it actually could have been a direct continuation and Hawke could have worked out as the protagonist but I don't think Hawke was particularly well received as a character overall and their backstory was pretty restrictive. DAI to the next DA game however seems to be much more of a direct continuation, especially with that teaser they already gave us and not to mention angry Inquisitor saying they have to "save the world ... again!" and the end cutscene in Trespasser. As I recall, the original vision for the Dragon Age games was to have a new protagonist each game, however visions and intentions change for game series and the original creative director (David Gaider) isn't with BioWare anymore. So, who knows what they'll do. My personal preference is Inquisitor for protag and if not that then a dual protag with Inquisitor and new person. However, even if the next game will have a new protagonist I will play it because I just have to find out what happens next ... well unless they pull a Blizzard and make it a shitty mobile game but I really don't see that happening.  Edit to add: But I concur, I wish they would just let us know as soon as possible so I'll at least know what to expect. 2nd Edit: Gaider wasn't the creative director, he was the lead writer. And I knew that so I'm not sure why I typed "creative director". My brain no worky. |
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Feb 7, 2019 3:53:35 GMT
Its been 71 days since the teaser. (Yes, I counted.) I want the gaaaaaaammmmmeeeee.   ... That is all. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 7, 2019 5:00:25 GMT
Its been 71 days since the teaser. (Yes, I counted.) I want the gaaaaaaammmmmeeeee. ... That is all. 71 days 1704 hours 102240 minutes 6134400 seconds |
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Post by Walter Black on Feb 9, 2019 16:32:49 GMT
There any number of ways the writers can create interesting dynamics between Solas and a new hero. I'm good with dual protagonists, I just don't want to be stuck with only Inky's backstory and, choices, abilities and bland personality. The Inquisitor is only as bland as you make them to be, we can set up their whole backstory in the Keep and Anchor's removal provides a good reason why their abilities may have changed. Not counting headcannon and only what choices that are in the actual game, in Origins I could be a hero, good but naively in over my head, neutral, a coward, an idiot, crazy, pragmatic, ruthlessly ambitious, a sadistic monster, or anything in between. If I decided to do a complete 180, make my PC a completely different person at the end of the game from the beginning, people commented. In Inquisition, I can be The Hero Who Always Does the Right Thing, or the Jerk Who Complains About Always Doing the Right Thing. To me, that's bland. A new protagonist who spent most, if not all of their lives in the Imperium could give new role playing options and opportunities we could never have with the Inquisitor.
The writers have to take into account players who never played Inquisition, or any previous Dragon Age game, so there will be repetition regardless. To me, such exposition dumps work better with a new protagonist. To reiterate my Marvel examples, I still feel the Kingpin makes a better Daredevil and Punisher villain than Spider-Man one. Likewise, Thor, Loki, Tony and Doctor Strange's interactions with Thanos in Infinity War works well enough for audience investment, and they could have cut all the Guardians except Gamora to get the same payoff.
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Post by Elessara on Feb 10, 2019 3:41:25 GMT
The Inquisitor is only as bland as you make them to be, we can set up their whole backstory in the Keep and Anchor's removal provides a good reason why their abilities may
<snip>
The writers have to take into account players who never played Inquisition, or any previous Dragon Age game, so there will be repetition regardless. To me, such exposition dumps work better with a new protagonist. To reiterate my Marvel examples, I still feel the Kingpin makes a better Daredevil and Punisher villain than Spider-Man one. Likewise, Thor, Loki, Tony and Doctor Strange's interactions with Thanos in Infinity War works well enough for audience investment, and they could have cut all the Guardians except Gamora to get the same payoff.
Except in this case, having a new protagonist in the next DA game would be similar to cutting out Gamora and replacing her with someone entirely new, one that has no connection to Thanos, no background or history and then having to build up some kind of connection between NotGamora and Thanos during the course of that one movie to get any kind of emotional payoff. Even then, those scenes between Gamorra and Thanos wouldn't have been nearly as emotional between NotGamorra and Thanos regardless of whatever the writers were able to shoehorn in during the movie. And there are really points in a game series where the writers honestly have to not cater to new players. Seriously, if someone is a new player and they're jumping into the 4th game in a series, they'd have to expect to not understand the background and history - unless they spend time researching it, like I did when I played Divinity: Original Sin 2 having never played any other Divinity game. This is actually one of the problems I had with James Vega in ME3; I didn't have a problem with the character himself but with the way you were forced to have him with you during some parts of the game so new players could get some background info about things (things he actually should have known about already). At any rate, I think at this point we can all just agree to disagree. You want a new protag and quite a few of us don't. The only thing that might satisfy all of us is a dual protag system and honestly I'm not holding my breath on that one. We'll just have to wait to see who gets disappointed. Regardless, i'm going to play the next game. I just want some freaking news - something much more substantial than a 30 second teaser.
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Post by Elessara on Feb 10, 2019 4:20:03 GMT
So I was thinking about a dual protag system (even though I don't think we'll get one). I have never played a game with a dual system before. As I understand it, The Witcher 3 sort of has this where you can at times play Ciri instead of Geralt but I don't know how this system works. Are you forced to use Ciri for certain missions? Can you choose to use her at all times?
At any rate, I was thinking that *if* they were to do a dual protag system it might be interesting if players were given a choice, you could use the Inquisitor OR you could use NewPerson. Quests and missions would then unfold differently based on who you decided to bring. NPCs would react differently and you may have a harder or easier time depending on who you're playing. For example, if we're in Tevinter and NewPerson is a Tevinter native then it might be more beneficial to bring NewPerson as they would have innate knowledge of the culture whereas the Inquisitor might make blunders and tick people off. Conversely using the Inquisitor might open doors that would have otherwise been closed - nobles might be more willing to talk to/aid you b/c you're the Inquisitor where they might ignore NewPerson. The system would be a little complex but would certainly add to replayability.
Unfortunately one of the reasons why I think they wouldn't add a dual protagonist is ... voice acting. We already have 4 VAs for the Inquisitor alone. But it's interesting to think about.
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Post by ellanathehamster on Feb 10, 2019 12:34:22 GMT
So I was thinking about a dual protag system (even though I don't think we'll get one). I have never played a game with a dual system before. As I understand it, The Witcher 3 sort of has this where you can at times play Ciri instead of Geralt but I don't know how this system works. Are you forced to use Ciri for certain missions? Can you choose to use her at all times? At any rate, I was thinking that *if* they were to do a dual protag system it might be interesting if players were given a choice, you could use the Inquisitor OR you could use NewPerson. Quests and missions would then unfold differently based on who you decided to bring. NPCs would react differently and you may have a harder or easier time depending on who you're playing. For example, if we're in Tevinter and NewPerson is a Tevinter native then it might be more beneficial to bring NewPerson as they would have innate knowledge of the culture whereas the Inquisitor might make blunders and tick people off. Conversely using the Inquisitor might open doors that would have otherwise been closed - nobles might be more willing to talk to/aid you b/c you're the Inquisitor where they might ignore NewPerson. The system would be a little complex but would certainly add to replayability. Unfortunately one of the reasons why I think they wouldn't add a dual protagonist is ... voice acting. We already have 4 VAs for the Inquisitor alone. But it's interesting to think about. In Witcher 3 it works like this- you play as Ciri for specific quests. You can fight, choose response ect. But you don't have access to inventory, that's it. I actually think this system, would work perfect and satisfy most of you- those who want Inquisitor back will have him\her for some quest, where their presence is most suited (like meeting with Solas, for example). Those who want new protagonist will have them for almost whole game expect few missions. I do want to see Inquisitor again, but if am being objective they will go as far as they did with Hawke- out previous hero will come back as npc. Better than nothing, but it won't be us, cause we can't affect their choices, responses ect- and that's my biggest problem with this approach. Or if we whine too much, spam their twitter after DA4 is released and we don't have an Inquisitor back, bioware can release dlc with Inquisitor as main hero. But honestly that will cost too much, and not only voice acting but animation for someone with one hand and not that many can be interested in doing dlc for previous hero instead of current one. plus they said numerous time that each game has a new hero, and one of the main goals of Trespasser was to finish Inquisitor story. That being said, I do hope to play as Inquisitor again.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Feb 10, 2019 16:44:18 GMT
As for the Inquisitor's appearance for those selected key moments of the game, the introduction to the Inquisitor character, could be resolved via singular cutscene, similar to the one we see at the end of the Trespasser, indicating our underground operation base and introducing the war table/similar mechanic, where as the Inqusitor we will be operating our movements. The next following appearances of the Inquisitor should apply to individual missions, one or several, regularly distributed during the main narrative. As an example, one of these missions can take the form of a dream. Due to the fact that the Fade is Solas' dominion, it has the opportunity to play an interesting role, enabling occasional conversations with him in one or several moments of the game. Depending on our relationship with him and our dialogue choices, it could influence his actions in the final confrontation. The final confrontation, as in the case of MEA, should be divided between the main protagonist and the Inquisitor. At some point there may be a separation, where both characters must simultaneously deal with other matters, or will be forced to do so by occurring circumstances. Another reason may be the Inquisitor's personal narrative itself, which will eventually lead to her/his separation and then resolved during the final confrontation. The inquisitor having Fade conversations with Solas after key story beats is an interesting idea. Kinda like those QEC conversations Shepard had with Hackett after major missions in ME3, but more involved. Solas reacting to developments from the main protag, discussing them with the Inquisitor, and the Inquisitor could use those opportunities to either continue to threaten him or try to continue to change his mind (or maybe fake trying to change his mind in the hopes of tricking him into a trap or something). And we choose all that dialogue. Add in some conversations with other allies in the real world before and after those Fade conversations, and some involvement in the finale, and you've got an appropriate amount of content for TLCA, in my opinion.
All without forcing the player to learn a new combat style aside from their main protagonist's. Hell in this scenario, they wouldn't even actually need their arm back.
I like this idea, Muninn .  I'd still be fine with the Inquisitor being the protag, but for a dual protag system, it'd be a good way to go.
(Would it be completely out of bounds to tag Luke Barrett on this post in hopes that he'd pass along the sentiment? lol)
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 10, 2019 18:00:43 GMT
Folks have already responded to this, so I'll just add a few things of my own... The Inquisitor is only as bland as you make them to be, we can set up their whole backstory in the Keep and Anchor's removal provides a good reason why their abilities may have changed. Not counting headcannon and only what choices that are in the actual game, in Origins I could be a hero, good but naively in over my head, neutral, a coward, an idiot, crazy, pragmatic, ruthlessly ambitious, a sadistic monster, or anything in between. If I decided to do a complete 180, make my PC a completely different person at the end of the game from the beginning, people commented. In Inquisition, I can be The Hero Who Always Does the Right Thing, or the Jerk Who Complains About Always Doing the Right Thing. To me, that's bland. I played Origins too, multiple times, and there really ain't that much of a difference between it and DAI - there's a nuance in both to provide us with the opportunity to create different variables and occasional recognition of type of our actions, depending on their context and usually strengthening the more we play in certain directions. None of the games have ways to recognize subtler shifts or complexities in our characters. DAO can't really recognize that you're playing an idiot, a psycho or "anything in between", even if we get an occasional comment from an NPC or companion about a certain choice or a string of particular choices (something that happens in all DA games). I'm afraid then that most what you're talking about is still mostly headcanon. What is bland then in many respects depends on us - because I certainly don't see many choices in Origin as really that much better or more nuanced. I have the tools I need to create my Inquisitors to be as complex as my Wardens. And I do enjoy the fact that different circumstances surrounding them result with different stories or different opportunities to tell them. And Inquisitor in DA4 would be able to deliver us what no other PC in Dragon Age was able to deliver yet - including Inquisitor in DAI. Because the truth is that an already established, battle-hardened veteran is simply able to exist in a different narrative space than a fresh-faced, untested PC we need to establish and build up, like we already did 3 times in the series. ...Nevermind that it's something of a moot point anyway, since RP options and opportunities will always differ for different types of PCs whether they're recurring or always new. If we start as a slave, we will have different options and opportunities than if we start as, say, a spy. After all, wasn't that something of a point of origins, in DAO? I don't really see how bringing new players up to speed should be an issue for a game company that had a whole series about a recurring protagonist - and a popular one at that. Anyway, Elessara has already excellently tackled this argument. |
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Post by Solas on Feb 13, 2019 16:31:28 GMT
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Feb 13, 2019 19:36:25 GMT
I would like to point out that W'Kabi didn't die. Though, their relationship definitely did.
Also:
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Post by Iddy on Feb 15, 2019 17:31:16 GMT
I'm still not sure about whether to keep or remove the vallaslin. Ideally, I'd like to do pick the option that means letting go of the past and creating a new future for the Dalish.
By keeping the vallaslin, you decide that it doesn't have to be a slave brand. It can be given a new meaning. But at the same time, it might be better to remove the vallaslin and come up with new designs that represent each clan.
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Post by NightSymphony on Feb 16, 2019 19:16:56 GMT
It's been a while. Massive art dump! Sketch commission: Asilanasta and Solas by Isbjorg Aftermath by e-soulu Dragon Age Elves Happy Valentines Day 2019 by Purple-Meow Solas St Valentaine's Day by Ekalita The Dread Wolf Rising by Ekalita Pride by Ekalita Solas uthenera in desert by Ekalita Sacrifice by Vans021 F30434fc-3ee5-4d2e-a571-3d57480846b2 by mappeli Solas, tell me - yes by ktrew Inquisitor Lavellan and the Dread Wolf by hvitkanen Dread Wolf by ElbenherzArt Dawn of a New World by simone-sche Sun and Moon by ttenri The Dinan'Shiral by lothlenan |
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Post by NightSymphony on Feb 16, 2019 19:28:05 GMT
nipuni gets her own post The lovers at the crossroads Evanuris Frozen in time Wedding sketch New year Wisdom and Pride 'i'm sorry, every alternative was worse' Rise TDWR Hope DAI calendar Mythal's court a thing more sketches sketch |
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Feb 16, 2019 23:31:47 GMT
It's been a while. Massive art dump! Uh, yeah.  How do you find the time? lol I'm glad you do, but how???
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Post by NightSymphony on Feb 17, 2019 5:55:02 GMT
I have no life :-P Actually, it didn't take that long. I follow a lot of those artists already, also I just search for Solas on Deviant Art and weed out all the pictures people post of their feet to find our sexy elf. Poor guy, smelling feet all the time. So many foot fetish people on Deviant Art.  |
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Post by wildenight on Feb 21, 2019 2:36:30 GMT
Nipuni is getting married and a few of her fellow artists on Tumblr are gifting her some really nice OC Lavellan art. It's really adorable.
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Post by Iddy on Feb 21, 2019 12:18:08 GMT
I was wondering... if you play Lavellan as not too elfy, non-traditional and actually disliking some parts of the Dalish life style, how can it make sense that she was chosen to be the next keeper?
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Feb 21, 2019 14:29:50 GMT
I was wondering... if you play Lavellan as not too elfy, non-traditional and actually disliking some parts of the Dalish life style, how can it make sense that she was chosen to be the next keeper? Maybe she lies? Her clan and Keeper think she's very elfy, traditional, and loves the Dalish lifestyle, but secretly she hates it all. When she joins the Inquisition she finds herself finally free to vocalize her disapproval, and takes every opportunity to do so.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Feb 21, 2019 15:15:06 GMT
Could also be that Clan Lavellan has no other options.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 21, 2019 18:26:08 GMT
I was wondering... if you play Lavellan as not too elfy, non-traditional and actually disliking some parts of the Dalish life style, how can it make sense that she was chosen to be the next keeper? Because they're the only viable mage around? Because they were talented or diligent and being all Keeper'y even despite having little appetite for the position? Because the Keeper made an arbitrary decision, driven by emotion or attachment or else? Because they were peer pressured or groomed towards the position since they were young and didn't think for a while they could be anything else? Because they were complacent or ambitious or lied to themselves for a while? Because they may dislike part of Dalish life, but still care about their clansmen or elves overall and think them being in a position of leadership may bring some reforms, even if within confines of one clan? There are zillions reasons why a particular person may be doing something despite not being all for it. Heck, Inquisition is in large part about doing something one doesn't necessarily wants or isn't particularly fond of.
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Post by Sifr on Feb 21, 2019 19:46:33 GMT
nipuni gets her own post Frozen in time "You have my respect, vhenan. When I'm done, the People will live once more. I hope they remember you."
Mythal: Did you do it? Solas: Yes. Mythal: What did it cost? Solas: ... Everything.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 21, 2019 20:49:03 GMT
nipuni gets her own post Frozen in time "You have my respect, vhenan. When I'm done, the People will live once more. I hope they remember you."
Mythal: Did you do it? Solas: Yes. Mythal: What did it cost? Solas: ... Everything.
*Inquisitor stabs Solas* "I told you you'd die for that."
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Post by Elessara on Feb 21, 2019 22:08:48 GMT
I was wondering... if you play Lavellan as not too elfy, non-traditional and actually disliking some parts of the Dalish life style, how can it make sense that she was chosen to be the next keeper? Because they're the only viable mage around? Because they were talented or diligent and being all Keeper'y even despite having little appetite for the position? Because the Keeper made an arbitrary decision, driven by emotion or attachment or else? Because they were peer pressured or groomed towards the position since they were young and didn't think for a while they could be anything else? Because they were complacent or ambitious or lied to themselves for a while? Because they may dislike part of Dalish life, but still care about their clansmen or elves overall and think them being in a position of leadership may bring some reforms, even if within confines of one clan? There are zillions reasons why a particular person may be doing something despite not being all for it. Heck, Inquisition is in large part about doing something one doesn't necessarily wants or isn't particularly fond of. Also ... maybe because whether they personally want to be Keeper or not they feel a strong sense of responsibility and duty towards their people and feel they must accept the position? ... Wait, that sounds kind of familiar.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Solas on Feb 21, 2019 23:37:47 GMT
Another possibility: Given Clan Lavellan is noted to be fairly different from most Dalish clans - openly trading respectfully with humans, and non-isolationist-y-ly sending an envoy to spy on the Conclave and take an interest in these human affairs - if u fancied, you could have a lil wiggle room imo to hc them as fairly progressive in general, such that they would be more accepting than usual of such an elf PC taking on the role, Iddy.
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I'd still be fine with the Inquisitor being the protag, but for a dual protag system, it'd be a good way to go.
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