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Post by midnight tea on Oct 8, 2019 21:04:18 GMT
Just one more question. Why would the clan send mage Lavellan to spy on the Conclave? Surely, the hunters and scouts are far better suited for this kind of task. But more importantly, mages are a rare commodity for the Dalish. I doubt they would send one into a dangerous place full of templars unless nobody else could go. Especially if said mage is the clan's First. Hmmm... I think that the issue has been brought here several times, as I remember responding to it. Nevertheless, given the lull... may as well respond again. a). I don't see how hunters or scouts are better suited for the task? They aren't hunting prey in the wilderness or scouting for best location for clan to settle - they are supposed to mingle with the crowd and find a way to extract useful information; a task that ain't necessarily done with lurking in the shadows and eavesdropping. So hunters/rogues/scout =/= spies, especially in this specific situation. Someone with diplomatic skills, or even someone like Iron Bull - a person who brings attention to themselves yet still gets the job of spying done - may as well suffice. b.) the decision to send a spy - even if it's the First of the Clan - may have little to do with their role in the clan and a lot to do with a specific person being considered to be most suited for the task, depending on their individual talents. My Lavellan, for example, was very familiar with an outside world and already experienced as an envoy/mediator for her clan. And that's aside from personal reasons that made her a natural choice for the mission. c.) two characteristics that ALL Lavellan spies have in common is being literate and friendly enough towards humans in order to complete their mission. It may depend on a clan, but it's not far-fetched to assume that both of these conditions may have been possessed only by a handful of clan members. c.) mages are a rare commodity in SOME clans - otherwise some clans wouldn't chase out some mages, or clan Alerion wouldn't send Merrill to Sabrae clan. My Lavellan clan has quite a few mages due to some events in the past.
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Post by Elessara on Oct 9, 2019 2:12:37 GMT
I wonder if Lavellan would face any scrutiny if she returned or visited her clan again. Maybe some clan members going "Ugh, she is a flat ear now. I can tell." It seems to me that overall Clan Lavellan is less prejudiced against humans or city elves than some other Dalish clans. In the initial war table mission the Keeper states they have always dealt fairly with humans and only wish peace and, depending on war table mission choices, the Keeper doesn't want to abandon the city elves in Wycome. I'm not saying that every member of Clan Lavellan is a shining example of tolerance and acceptance but overall I doubt they'd call the Inquisitor a "flat ear". However I would also imagine that even so, the Inquisitor may be viewed as more of an outsider after all is said and done especially if she romances Solas and has her vallaslin removed.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Oct 9, 2019 7:57:01 GMT
Yeah, having the vallaslin removed will require an explanation that will inevitably cause tension with the clan, regardless of what the explanation is. Its not like you can lie and say you lost your permanent tattoos in an accident or something. You could maybe paint them back on (I'm thinking applications of some kind of henna, possibly?), but I'm pretty sure that people would notice at some point if you stuck around for too long.
Not saying the clan would necessarily not accept a Lavellan who's had the vallaslin removed. I think it could be a mixed bag. But then, universal acceptance by your clan in the first place is up to player choice, so maybe it wouldn't cause much of a change for you.
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Post by Iddy on Oct 14, 2019 13:03:24 GMT
I find it odd that Solas calls Gaspard "thuggish" and uses the same word to describe modern races.
Regardless of motivation, what have they done that Solas wouldn't do himself to further his goals?
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 20, 2019 7:50:52 GMT
I find it odd that Solas calls Gaspard "thuggish" and uses the same word to describe modern races. Regardless of motivation, what have they done that Solas wouldn't do himself to further his goals? But Gaspard is thuggish. Also, his goal isn't very complicated - he's interested in the Orlesian throne predominantly because he thinks he's entitled to it and would then try to use it to do some conquering. Solas's goals and methods are far more sophisticated than that.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 21, 2019 22:06:55 GMT
I find it odd that Solas calls Gaspard "thuggish" and uses the same word to describe modern races. Regardless of motivation, what have they done that Solas wouldn't do himself to further his goals? But Gaspard is thuggish. Also, his goal isn't very complicated - he's interested in the Orlesian throne predominantly because he thinks he's entitled to it and would then try to use it to do some conquering. Solas's goals and methods are far more sophisticated than that. How? What you described as Gaspard's goals fit to describe Solas's as well. He thinks he is entitled to change the world which would result in this modern world being conquered by being destroyed to make his old one.
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 22, 2019 13:13:18 GMT
But Gaspard is thuggish. Also, his goal isn't very complicated - he's interested in the Orlesian throne predominantly because he thinks he's entitled to it and would then try to use it to do some conquering. Solas's goals and methods are far more sophisticated than that. How? What you described as Gaspard's goals fit to describe Solas's as well. He thinks he is entitled to change the world which would result in this modern world being conquered by being destroyed to make his old one. By that same logic you could say that Gaspard's goals fit to describe post-Trespasser Inquisitor as well - they think they are "entitled" in trying to save the world (again) and thus impose their idea on how the world should be and thus maintain their high position in it.
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Post by Iddy on Oct 22, 2019 13:23:02 GMT
I wonder what Solas would be like drunk  |
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Oct 22, 2019 13:40:43 GMT
I wonder what Solas would be like drunk  Wonder no further! He's drunk if you take him to the winter palace. He slips up a little with his cover story, but that seems to jolt him back into some sobriety for the rest of the discussion.
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 22, 2019 16:58:06 GMT
I wonder what Solas would be like drunk Wonder no further! He's drunk if you take him to the winter palace. He slips up a little with his cover story, but that seems to jolt him back into some sobriety for the rest of the discussion. Eh, I'm not sure it could be claimed that what we have in Winter Palace is drunk, or even tipsy - and his slip-up happens after Halamshiral, once we're back in Skyhold. I'm pretty certain he's sober then and he slips up not because of alcohol, but because - as he's told us - he's forgot how much he's liked court intrigue... which is more than likely the main reason why he seemed surprisingly chipper in Winter Palace. So I think he's only 'drunk' in Winter Palace in a metaphorical sense.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Oct 22, 2019 17:14:10 GMT
Wonder no further! He's drunk if you take him to the winter palace. He slips up a little with his cover story, but that seems to jolt him back into some sobriety for the rest of the discussion. Eh, I'm not sure it could be claimed that what we have in Winter Palace is drunk, or even tipsy - and his slip-up happens after Halamshiral, once we're back in Skyhold. I'm pretty certain he's sober then and he slips up not because of alcohol, but because - as he's told us - he's forgot how much he's liked court intrigue... which is more than likely the main reason why he seemed surprisingly chipper in Winter Palace. So I think he's only 'drunk' in Winter Palace in a metaphorical sense. Also, I don't think he'd be so careless as to get sloshed while on the job, even if he was taking some time to enjoy himself.
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Post by Iddy on Oct 23, 2019 19:48:39 GMT
Solas says that Lavellan (romanced) is a wise person, but it's hard to imagine like him not seeing her as a child.
Then again, he spent the last thousands of years sleeping. So you could say he is no more experienced than a 40 year old man. Well... assuming he was sleeping-sleeping and not walking the Fade. I don't know.
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Post by Solas on Oct 23, 2019 19:53:33 GMT
Solas says that Lavellan (romanced) is a wise person, but it's hard to imagine like him not seeing her as a child. Then again, he spent the last thousands of years sleeping. So you could say he is no more experienced than a 40 year old man. Well... assuming he was sleeping-sleeping and not walking the Fade. I don't know. the question is how many years did he live in his previous life before he went to sleep? it could be a lot more than forty, no?
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Post by Iddy on Oct 23, 2019 19:58:26 GMT
Solas says that Lavellan (romanced) is a wise person, but it's hard to imagine like him not seeing her as a child. Then again, he spent the last thousands of years sleeping. So you could say he is no more experienced than a 40 year old man. Well... assuming he was sleeping-sleeping and not walking the Fade. I don't know. the question is how many years did he live in his previous life before he went to sleep? it could be a lot more than forty, no? The question is whether he was fully unconscious during his Uthenera slumber or not. If the answer is yes, then being thousands of years old doesn't make him more experienced than anyone.
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Post by Solas on Oct 23, 2019 20:21:47 GMT
wuh? I don't follow. if he lived a long time before we went to sleep, he very well could be many years older than Lavellan  |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 23, 2019 20:30:11 GMT
How? What you described as Gaspard's goals fit to describe Solas's as well. He thinks he is entitled to change the world which would result in this modern world being conquered by being destroyed to make his old one. By that same logic you could say that Gaspard's goals fit to describe post-Trespasser Inquisitor as well - they think they are "entitled" in trying to save the world (again) and thus impose their idea on how the world should be and thus maintain their high position in it. Not at all. The Inquisitor is stopping Solas so the world can choose for itself how it should be, where Solas made that choice for them. |
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 23, 2019 20:53:25 GMT
By that same logic you could say that Gaspard's goals fit to describe post-Trespasser Inquisitor as well - they think they are "entitled" in trying to save the world (again) and thus impose their idea on how the world should be and thus maintain their high position in it. Not at all. The Inquisitor is stopping Solas so the world can choose for itself how it should be, where Solas made that choice for them. That argument only works if you assume that modern Thedas is objectively the entirety or majority of the world and they have a say over anyone else - AND that the world has basically unanimously chosen Inquisitor as their representative. We can't have any certainty about either of the above positions, especially after Trespasser. Which, basically, puts Inquisitor in about the same spot as Solas - they have effectively put themselves in a place of someone who decides the shape of the world, thus making a choice 'for everyone'. This is why they're positioned in the story as counterparts. Besides - come on. At least Solas and Inquisitor have something of a mandate to act based on their efforts and sacrifices in actually trying to protect the world - Gaspard has none of it. He feels entitled to the throne because he views it as his birthright and he's interested in Making Orlais Great Again through war and conquest because this is what he knows and likes. Hence he's a thuggish person with unsophisticated goals, all things considered. In contrast, both Solas and Inquisitor's goals are less self-interested and more complicated than that, which is why the approach to compare them all works only on the very surface.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 23, 2019 20:59:57 GMT
Not at all. The Inquisitor is stopping Solas so the world can choose for itself how it should be, where Solas made that choice for them. That argument only works if you assume that modern Thedas is objectively the entirety or majority of the world and they have a say over anyone else - AND that the world has basically unanimously chosen Inquisitor as their representative. We can't have any certainty about either of the above positions, especially after Trespasser. Which, basically, puts Inquisitor in about the same spot as Solas - they have effectively put themselves in a place of someone who decides the shape of the world, thus making a choice 'for everyone'. This is why they're positioned in the story as counterparts. Besides - come on. At least Solas in Inquisitor have something of a mandate to act based on their efforts and sacrifices in actually trying to protect the world - Gaspard has none of it. He feels entitled to the throne because he views it as his birthright and he's interested in Making Orlais Great Again through war and conquest because this is what he knows and likes. Hence he's a thuggish person with unsophisticated goals, all things considered. In contrast, both Solas and Inquisitor's goals are less self-interested and more complicated than that, which is why the approach to compare them all works only on the very surface. We know that Solas is ignoring everyone’s wills, Thedas and beyond, and only listening to his own. So no, they are in the exact opposite position to each other. |
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 23, 2019 22:23:07 GMT
We know that Solas is ignoring everyone’s wills, Thedas and beyond, and only listening to his own. So no, they are in the exact opposite position to each other. Yep, he ignores everyone's wills, which is why he goes out of his way to save Inquisition and allows Inquisitor to survive and try and prove him wrong  Never mind of the fact that the claim that he's ignoring everyone's will 'Thedas and beyond' is an unfounded claim anyway even without stuff mentioned above. I mean, aside from evidence existing to the contrary, you'd have to know *everything* about Thedas and what has transpired that has led to existence of modern Thedas or make-up of the world and Fade. So far neither of us does.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 23, 2019 22:43:57 GMT
We know that Solas is ignoring everyone’s wills, Thedas and beyond, and only listening to his own. So no, they are in the exact opposite position to each other. Yep, he ignores everyone's wills, which is why he goes out of his way to save Inquisition and allows Inquisitor to survive and try and prove him wrong Never mind of the fact that the claim that he's ignoring everyone's will 'Thedas and beyond' is an unfounded claim anyway even without stuff mentioned above. I mean, aside from evidence existing to the contrary, you'd have to know *everything* about Thedas and what has transpired that has led to existence of modern Thedas or make-up of the world and Fade. So far neither of us does. Please, point out where Solas asks everybody if they are okay with destroying their reality and killing them all which they all replied with yes. |
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 23, 2019 23:17:45 GMT
Yep, he ignores everyone's wills, which is why he goes out of his way to save Inquisition and allows Inquisitor to survive and try and prove him wrong Never mind of the fact that the claim that he's ignoring everyone's will 'Thedas and beyond' is an unfounded claim anyway even without stuff mentioned above. I mean, aside from evidence existing to the contrary, you'd have to know *everything* about Thedas and what has transpired that has led to existence of modern Thedas or make-up of the world and Fade. So far neither of us does. Please, point out where Solas asks everybody if they are okay with destroying their reality and killing them all which they all replied with yes. Your previous claim was that Solas is 'ignoring everyone's will, Thedas and beyond' - you and I both know that it has very little to do with "asking everybody if they are okay with destroying their reality".
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 23, 2019 23:45:47 GMT
Please, point out where Solas asks everybody if they are okay with destroying their reality and killing them all which they all replied with yes. Your previous claim was that Solas is 'ignoring everyone's will, Thedas and beyond' - you and I both know that it has very little to do with "asking everybody if they are okay with destroying their reality". No, I don’t know that. And that has everything to do with it. |
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Oct 24, 2019 0:00:07 GMT
Solas says that Lavellan (romanced) is a wise person, but it's hard to imagine like him not seeing her as a child. Then again, he spent the last thousands of years sleeping. So you could say he is no more experienced than a 40 year old man. Well... assuming he was sleeping-sleeping and not walking the Fade. I don't know. Solas is chronologically thousands of years older than Lavellan, whether he lived for thousands of years before putting the Veil up or not. It does not follow that Solas sees Lavellan as a child. They are both physically, emotionally, and intellectually adults (unless a person headcanons or roleplays their Inquisitor as a child or as child-like) regardless of how long they've actually existed on the planet.
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 24, 2019 0:08:43 GMT
Your previous claim was that Solas is 'ignoring everyone's will, Thedas and beyond' - you and I both know that it has very little to do with "asking everybody if they are okay with destroying their reality". No, I don’t know that. And that has everything to do with it. Only if you believe that everyone, in Thedas and beyond, is unanimous about keeping Thedas as it is (which still has very little to do with asking everyone's permission about deciding the fate of the world - and if such is the case - why is Inquisitor not held to the same standard???). I'd like to know where did you get a conviction that such is the case ? I mean, this is the sort of logical leap that seems to exist only if there's a determination to ignore the uncomfortable reality that may not be agreement between "everyone" about the existence of Thedas as it is (never mind that we don't even know what that 'destruction' would ultimately be) - and that there may exist, at the very least, more sides and complexity to this conflict than 'everyone' vs 'that one selfish a-hole Solas who decides stuff for everyone".
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 24, 2019 0:18:37 GMT
Solas says that Lavellan (romanced) is a wise person, but it's hard to imagine like him not seeing her as a child. Then again, he spent the last thousands of years sleeping. So you could say he is no more experienced than a 40 year old man. Well... assuming he was sleeping-sleeping and not walking the Fade. I don't know. Solas is chronologically thousands of years older than Lavellan, whether he lived for thousands of years before putting the Veil up or not. It does not follow that Solas sees Lavellan as a child. They are both physically, emotionally, and intellectually adults (unless a person headcanons or roleplays their Inquisitor as a child or as child-like) regardless of how long they've actually existed on the planet. Yea, plus - we don't really know how the time passes or counts for ancient elves. The world was different back then and we don't know what was the process or age at which they are determined to be fully mature - even less so when they reach mental maturity, which in itself is a proces that can be entirely separate from physical age. Also, clearly Solas sees (liked) Inquisitors as either equals or people to be deeply respected. He definitely sees them as wiser then most Evanuris, that's for sure. And those were First of his People  Needless to say, I don't think friendship or romance would be possible if Solas viewed Inkys as one sees a child.
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