Moondreamer
N2
Writing is hard. Drawing is harder. I need to do more of both.
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Moondreamer
Writing is hard. Drawing is harder. I need to do more of both.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by Moondreamer on Nov 23, 2016 14:48:02 GMT
I think midnight tea has it right there. The moment Felassan refused to hand out the passphrase to Solas, he had commited treason to their cause and couldn't be allowed to live. That refusal is only a small betrayal, but what would it lead to if Felassan was left alive? Felassan now believes Briala and her people should get their chance, which put him in an adversarial position toward Solas and his plans to bring down the veil. From refusing to comply with an order to actively working against Solas, there's only one step. As leader of a rebellion, we are given many hints of how ruthless Solas can act. He would not have let such a loose thread as Felassan live Did he kill in anger, or did he kill in cold calculation? Perhaps a bit of the two. That betrayal from someone he had known for millenia (at the very least. My headcanon is that they were more than that. Friends most probably) must have been a real blow to Solas, who doesn't trust many. Thus, the anger. The calculation comes from the fact that he felt he HAD to kill Felassan. He saw no other option, unless he found Felassan spilling his secrets to Briala (and others) at a later date. I too think that he sees Felassan as a friend, Cole says as much, but that's the point that I find interesting: that he's not exatly cold, that he really cares for people and that he's actually a very compassionate person, and still e is capable of doing terrible things. He's not just the kind of bad guy who doesn''t give a fuck about anyone, and can do terrible things because he doesn't care., he does them even if he cares. It's nice when you tell him you never thought of him as someone who could do something like that and he says thank you. I thinks it's such a cool character, despite broking my Inquisitor's heart twice I don't know, just how I see him, anyway, I think he dies a little more inside with every time he does something like that. You can't kill a friend in that way and not have it weight heavily on your conscience, not unless you're some kind of madman or psychopath. And we know Solas cares deeply, even when he doesn't want to. So, that right there is the tragedy of the man. He'll do anything--including murdering his own friends, including knowing that his plan will most probably kill all those he befriended in Inquisition (and the woman he loves in the case where Lavellan romanced him)--to do what he think he has to. He'll make himself a monster, destroy his own soul, throw everything away. He's done it once before, as I believe he had to know at least partly what would happen when he raised the veil, because he thought every other alternative was worse. He'll do it again. Has to do it again, at least think he has to. Desperate men are dangerous men.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Nov 23, 2016 15:02:46 GMT
Last month while on a long-distance drive, I stumbled across a radio program on authentic pride and hubristic pride and it made me think a great deal of Solas. I'm not a psychologist, nor have I studied psychology, but if any of you do have more knowledge about this model of pride, I'd be interested to hear what you have to say about it. The basic theory is that pride is a complex emotion that has two facets: authentic pride is the 'good' pride that gives us self-esteem, confidence, and feelings of self-worth, while hubristic pride is the 'bad' pride that is demonstrated by people like the president-elect of the United States. Now, I know that the model is subject to argument in psychological theory circles but that might not be so important to analyzing a video game character. Anyway, what struck me about this model is that Solas seems to embody authentic pride while we know him as the simple apostate hobo elf, but hubristic pride takes over when he kills Mythal and is quite apparent in the Dread Wolf we meet in Trespasser. So that led me to thinking that if he is "pride" in a spiritual sense, maybe - as he says - he only ever was Solas, a pride spirit (not a wisdom spirit or a freedom spirit). And he's tipped over the edge into being a pride demon now. Anyway, this talk of his murder of Felassan, etc. brought this idea to mind again. I wonder if Solas has perpetually walked the knife's edge between authentic pride/being a pride spirit and hubristic pride/being a pride demon.
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Post by javeart on Nov 23, 2016 15:27:23 GMT
Last month while on a long-distance drive, I stumbled across a radio program on authentic pride and hubristic pride and it made me think a great deal of Solas. I'm not a psychologist, nor have I studied psychology, but if any of you do have more knowledge about this model of pride, I'd be interested to hear what you have to say about it. The basic theory is that pride is a complex emotion that has two facets: authentic pride is the 'good' pride that gives us self-esteem, confidence, and feelings of self-worth, while hubristic pride is the 'bad' pride that is demonstrated by people like the president-elect of the United States. Now, I know that the model is subject to argument in psychological theory circles but that might not be so important to analyzing a video game character. Anyway, what struck me about this model is that Solas seems to embody authentic pride while we know him as the simple apostate hobo elf, but hubristic pride takes over when he kills Mythal and is quite apparent in the Dread Wolf we meet in Trespasser. So that led me to thinking that if he is "pride" in a spiritual sense, maybe - as he says - he only ever was Solas, a pride spirit (not a wisdom spirit or a freedom spirit). And he's tipped over the edge into being a pride demon now. Anyway, this talk of his murder of Felassan, etc. brought this idea to mind again. I wonder if Solas has perpetually walked the knife's edge between authentic pride/being a pride spirit and hubristic pride/being a pride demon. I always thought of him as some kind of "good" pride spirit (it's ftting for someone encouraging people to rebel and break free), until I read somewhere someone pointing out that her wisdom spirit friend turns into a pride demon, and it's true that he has a huge nerdy side too Speaking of which, surely any of you could answer me this: in his banter with Cole about remembering his friend, when he asks him to do it as he would, why suddenly Cole talks about a "he" instead of "she"??? Surely there's an obvious explanation, but I never realized until this last playthrough, and it was a little confusing O.o
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NightSymphony
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Still in Solavellan Hell.
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NightSymphony
Still in Solavellan Hell.
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Post by NightSymphony on Nov 23, 2016 18:48:27 GMT
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Post by phoray on Nov 23, 2016 19:31:36 GMT
This song reminds me of Solas and Flemythal. I've thought about doing a GMV o it with him but I have several other art projects in my pile yet. Lyrics below. Remember the Tinman Tracy Chapman Lyrics There are locks on the doors And chains stretched across all the entries to the inside There's a gate and a fence And bars to protect from only God knows what lurks outside
Who stole your heart left you with a space That no one and nothing can fill Who stole your heart who took it away Knowing that without it you can't live Who took away the part so essential to the whole Left you a hollow body Skin and bone What robber what thief who stole your heart and the key Who stole your heart The smile from your face The innocence the light from your eyes Who stole your heart or did you give it away And if so then when and why Who took away the part so essential to the whole Left you a hollow body Skin and bone What robber what thief Who stole your heart and the key Now all sentiment is gone Now you have no trust in no one Who stole your heart Did you know but forget the method and moment in time Was it a trickster using mirrors and sleight of hand A strong elixir or a potion that you drank Who hurt your heart Bruised it in a place That no one and nothing can heal You've gone to wizards, princes and magic men You've gone to witches, the good the bad the indifferent But still all sentiment is gone But still you have no trust in no one If you can tear down the walls Throw your armor away remove all roadblocks barricades If you can forget there are bandits and dragons to slay And don't forget that you defend an empty space And remember the tin man Found he had what he thought he lacked Remember the tin man Go find your hear and take it back Who stole your heart Maybe no one can say One day you will find it I pray
It makes me think about the possible relationship dynamic he had with Mythal. How he probably hurt himself in multiple ways to be the leader of a rebellion. How he has to kill his own heart an turn away from Lavellan. And I'm not even the hugest Solas fan. Look at me go. Lol
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Post by Theneras on Nov 23, 2016 19:39:20 GMT
I always thought of him as some kind of "good" pride spirit (it's ftting for someone encouraging people to rebel and break free), until I read somewhere someone pointing out that her wisdom spirit friend turns into a pride demon, and it's true that he has a huge nerdy side too Speaking of which, surely any of you could answer me this: in his banter with Cole about remembering his friend, when he asks him to do it as he would, why suddenly Cole talks about a "he" instead of "she"??? Surely there's an obvious explanation, but I never realized until this last playthrough, and it was a little confusing O.o Cole: Bright and brilliant, he wanders the ways, walking unwaking, searching for wisdom... Solas: I do not need you to do that, Cole. Cole: Your friend wanted you to be happy, even though she knew you wouldn't be. Solas: (Sighs.) Could you... if you would remember her, could you do it as I would? Cole: He comes to me as though the Fade were just another wooded path to walk without a care in search of wisdom. Cole: We share the ancient mysteries, the feelings lost, forgotten dreams, unseen for ages, now beheld in wonder. Cole: In his own way, he knew wisdom, as no man or spirit had before. Solas: Thank you. My take on this, Cole is speaking as Wisdom here and not Solas. I could be wrong, but that was the impression I got from the conversation.
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Moondreamer
N2
Writing is hard. Drawing is harder. I need to do more of both.
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Writing is hard. Drawing is harder. I need to do more of both.
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Post by Moondreamer on Nov 23, 2016 19:42:38 GMT
Theneras That's my take on it too, now that I see it written down. Solas asks Cole to remember what Wisdom was like and so Cole talks of how Wisdom herself saw Solas.
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Post by ellawyn on Nov 23, 2016 19:46:33 GMT
Last month while on a long-distance drive, I stumbled across a radio program on authentic pride and hubristic pride and it made me think a great deal of Solas. I'm not a psychologist, nor have I studied psychology, but if any of you do have more knowledge about this model of pride, I'd be interested to hear what you have to say about it. The basic theory is that pride is a complex emotion that has two facets: authentic pride is the 'good' pride that gives us self-esteem, confidence, and feelings of self-worth, while hubristic pride is the 'bad' pride that is demonstrated by people like the president-elect of the United States. Now, I know that the model is subject to argument in psychological theory circles but that might not be so important to analyzing a video game character. Anyway, what struck me about this model is that Solas seems to embody authentic pride while we know him as the simple apostate hobo elf, but hubristic pride takes over when he kills Mythal and is quite apparent in the Dread Wolf we meet in Trespasser. So that led me to thinking that if he is "pride" in a spiritual sense, maybe - as he says - he only ever was Solas, a pride spirit (not a wisdom spirit or a freedom spirit). And he's tipped over the edge into being a pride demon now. Anyway, this talk of his murder of Felassan, etc. brought this idea to mind again. I wonder if Solas has perpetually walked the knife's edge between authentic pride/being a pride spirit and hubristic pride/being a pride demon. I'm not quite sure what mean by "hubristic" pride and that article doesn't give many answers either. Going off the definition posited, I can only think it means "Selfish manchild," which is not what I'd describe Solas as, despite his flaws. I do think he embodies a sort of negative form of pride, but it's - hmm, how to say this... it's a mistrustful sort, I guess. His pride leads him to believe he is the only one capable of implementing real change in the world - not because he thinks he's better than everyone, but because he simply feels like he cannot trust them. He trusted the world to find it's own path without him and without the Evanuris, and he feels they failed him, leaving him bitter ("There's nothing worse than watching fools squander what you sacrificed to achieve." or however that line of his goes.) As such, he doesn't think he can leave their future in their own hands, as to him, they've done nothing but fuck it up. He believes things have to be fixed, and he has to be the one who fixes them, because someone else might do it wrong (All of modern Thedas) or they might willingly betray him (Felassan.) That's the big issue with Solas' pride. It's not overconfidence in himself, it's a lack of confidence in everyone else. (This also further ties into his general misanthropic attitude.) I've seen people point out before that Solas does not sit well with injustice. That if he feels something is wrong, he pushes to make it right, or at least gets very vocal about it (See: Just about every time he yells at Dorian or Vivienne or Bull about slaves/mages/The Qun/whatever.) Partially that's because, despite his somewhat amoral methods, he nonetheless keeps his own moral code - but partially it's because he thinks he has to stand up about these things. That no one else can see the wrongness of them, or if they do, they don't think it's worth changing. That if he simply remains quiet, nothing will be fixed, because he doesn't have any faith in other people anymore. That's his pride. To dismantle it, you'd have to prove to him that he's not needed anymore, he doesn't have to play nanny to the whole world, people can find the best way forward on their own. He doesn't do what he does to feel better about himself, but because he only trusts himself to do them.
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Post by javeart on Nov 23, 2016 20:36:07 GMT
Theneras Moondreamer, thanks both of you I thought that might be an explanation, but it's still confusing, isn't he reading Solas mind? Is Solas remembering Wisdom through her own thoughts? Maybe Cole it's not reading Solas mind but remembering what he read in Wisdom? This makes me even more curious about whether Solas can or cannot read others people's mind, thinking he might have been a spirit and considering that he can block Cole and make him forget ellawyn I see him a little like that too
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 23, 2016 21:59:54 GMT
Last month while on a long-distance drive, I stumbled across a radio program on authentic pride and hubristic pride and it made me think a great deal of Solas. I'm not a psychologist, nor have I studied psychology, but if any of you do have more knowledge about this model of pride, I'd be interested to hear what you have to say about it. The basic theory is that pride is a complex emotion that has two facets: authentic pride is the 'good' pride that gives us self-esteem, confidence, and feelings of self-worth, while hubristic pride is the 'bad' pride that is demonstrated by people like the president-elect of the United States. Now, I know that the model is subject to argument in psychological theory circles but that might not be so important to analyzing a video game character. Anyway, what struck me about this model is that Solas seems to embody authentic pride while we know him as the simple apostate hobo elf, but hubristic pride takes over when he kills Mythal and is quite apparent in the Dread Wolf we meet in Trespasser. So that led me to thinking that if he is "pride" in a spiritual sense, maybe - as he says - he only ever was Solas, a pride spirit (not a wisdom spirit or a freedom spirit). And he's tipped over the edge into being a pride demon now. Anyway, this talk of his murder of Felassan, etc. brought this idea to mind again. I wonder if Solas has perpetually walked the knife's edge between authentic pride/being a pride spirit and hubristic pride/being a pride demon. I'm not quite sure what mean by "hubristic" pride and that article doesn't give many answers either. Going off the definition posited, I can only think it means "Selfish manchild," which is not what I'd describe Solas as, despite his flaws. I do think he embodies a sort of negative form of pride, but it's - hmm, how to say this... it's a mistrustful sort, I guess. His pride leads him to believe he is the only one capable of implementing real change in the world - not because he thinks he's better than everyone, but because he simply feels like he cannot trust them. He trusted the world to find it's own path without him and without the Evanuris, and he feels they failed him, leaving him bitter ("There's nothing worse than watching fools squander what you sacrificed to achieve." or however that line of his goes.) As such, he doesn't think he can leave their future in their own hands, as to him, they've done nothing but fuck it up. He believes things have to be fixed, and he has to be the one who fixes them, because someone else might do it wrong (All of modern Thedas) or they might willingly betray him (Felassan.) That's the big issue with Solas' pride. It's not overconfidence in himself, it's a lack of confidence in everyone else. (This also further ties into his general misanthropic attitude.) I've seen people point out before that Solas does not sit well with injustice. That if he feels something is wrong, he pushes to make it right, or at least gets very vocal about it (See: Just about every time he yells at Dorian or Vivienne or Bull about slaves/mages/The Qun/whatever.) Partially that's because, despite his somewhat amoral methods, he nonetheless keeps his own moral code - but partially it's because he thinks he has to stand up about these things. That no one else can see the wrongness of them, or if they do, they don't think it's worth changing. That if he simply remains quiet, nothing will be fixed, because he doesn't have any faith in other people anymore. That's his pride. To dismantle it, you'd have to prove to him that he's not needed anymore, he doesn't have to play nanny to the whole world, people can find the best way forward on their own. He doesn't do what he does to feel better about himself, but because he only trusts himself to do them. While I agree with basically everything you said here, I think it's only half of the story - Solas does say that 'the healer has the bloodiest hands' and has basically accepted that he is the one who will end up with most blood on his hands. Since he's already got himself 'dirty' - too dirty to save, basically - he's decided that the only thing left to him is shielding everyone else from grim responsibility of doing whatever has to be done to bring things to balance (or how he sees it, at the very least). This is why he basically shoots down any Dalish Inquisitor expressing willingness to help him, or why he says to romanced Lavellan that he can't do that to her, or that sharing what he knows would make her bear the same burden. Ironically he may think that it'd help even those condemns to retain their relative innocence, no matter how foolish or inept he thinks they are. He also likely thinks that it's the only thing he's good for, which may also be a part of the drive to finalize his plans :/ He is, after all, of the mind that one's purpose is the most important thing, and his purpose is... well, that. Unless someone convinces him otherwise
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Moondreamer
N2
Writing is hard. Drawing is harder. I need to do more of both.
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Writing is hard. Drawing is harder. I need to do more of both.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by Moondreamer on Nov 23, 2016 22:25:56 GMT
I'm not quite sure what mean by "hubristic" pride and that article doesn't give many answers either. Going off the definition posited, I can only think it means "Selfish manchild," which is not what I'd describe Solas as, despite his flaws. I do think he embodies a sort of negative form of pride, but it's - hmm, how to say this... it's a mistrustful sort, I guess. His pride leads him to believe he is the only one capable of implementing real change in the world - not because he thinks he's better than everyone, but because he simply feels like he cannot trust them. He trusted the world to find it's own path without him and without the Evanuris, and he feels they failed him, leaving him bitter ("There's nothing worse than watching fools squander what you sacrificed to achieve." or however that line of his goes.) As such, he doesn't think he can leave their future in their own hands, as to him, they've done nothing but fuck it up. He believes things have to be fixed, and he has to be the one who fixes them, because someone else might do it wrong (All of modern Thedas) or they might willingly betray him (Felassan.) That's the big issue with Solas' pride. It's not overconfidence in himself, it's a lack of confidence in everyone else. (This also further ties into his general misanthropic attitude.) I've seen people point out before that Solas does not sit well with injustice. That if he feels something is wrong, he pushes to make it right, or at least gets very vocal about it (See: Just about every time he yells at Dorian or Vivienne or Bull about slaves/mages/The Qun/whatever.) Partially that's because, despite his somewhat amoral methods, he nonetheless keeps his own moral code - but partially it's because he thinks he has to stand up about these things. That no one else can see the wrongness of them, or if they do, they don't think it's worth changing. That if he simply remains quiet, nothing will be fixed, because he doesn't have any faith in other people anymore. That's his pride. To dismantle it, you'd have to prove to him that he's not needed anymore, he doesn't have to play nanny to the whole world, people can find the best way forward on their own. He doesn't do what he does to feel better about himself, but because he only trusts himself to do them. While I agree with basically everything you said here, I think it's only half of the story - Solas does say that 'the healer has the bloodiest hands' and has basically accepted that he is the one who will end up with most blood on his hands. Since he's already got himself 'dirty' - too dirty to save, basically - he's decided that the only thing left to him is shielding everyone else from grim responsibility of doing whatever has to be done to bring things to balance (or how he sees it, at the very least). This is why he basically shoots down any Dalish Inquisitor expressing willingness to help him, or why he says to romanced Lavellan that he can't do that to her, or that sharing what he knows would make her bear the same burden. Ironically he may think that it'd help even those condemns to retain their relative innocence, no matter how foolish or inept he thinks they are. He also likely thinks that it's the only thing he's good for, which may also be a part of the drive to finalize his plans :/ He is, after all, of the mind that one's purpose is the most important thing, and his purpose is... well, that. Unless someone convinces him otherwise Do you know what this reminds me of? Parents who won't tell their adult children the bad news about [insert here health problem, death in the family, etc.] in an attempt to shield them and not worry them. I was just grousing about that with a friend earlier today and you talking of Solas shielding others of the worse of his burden is making me think of it. Solas, grumpy father of Thedas will shield them of the truth come hell and high water lol
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 23, 2016 22:38:21 GMT
Do you know what this reminds me of? Parents who won't tell their adult children the bad news about [insert here health problem, death in the family, etc.] in an attempt to shield them and not worry them. I was just grousig about that with a friend earlier today and you talking of Solas shielding others of the worse of his burden is making me think of it. Solas, grumpy father of Thedas will shield them of the truth come hell and high water lol Welp... Dorian: I can't believe you entered the Fade. Physically. Solas: You think that is an achievement of which to be proud? Dorian: It's the second time that's been done in all of history. That's not nothing, Solas. Solas: In all of human history. Dorian: The Fade is still a mystery to us humans, yes. Probably always will be. Solas: Perhaps it's best it remain that way.
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Post by ellawyn on Nov 23, 2016 23:50:09 GMT
While I agree with basically everything you said here, I think it's only half of the story - Solas does say that 'the healer has the bloodiest hands' and has basically accepted that he is the one who will end up with most blood on his hands. Since he's already got himself 'dirty' - too dirty to save, basically - he's decided that the only thing left to him is shielding everyone else from grim responsibility of doing whatever has to be done to bring things to balance (or how he sees it, at the very least). This is why he basically shoots down any Dalish Inquisitor expressing willingness to help him, or why he says to romanced Lavellan that he can't do that to her, or that sharing what he knows would make her bear the same burden. Ironically he may think that it'd help even those condemns to retain their relative innocence, no matter how foolish or inept he thinks they are. He also likely thinks that it's the only thing he's good for, which may also be a part of the drive to finalize his plans :/ He is, after all, of the mind that one's purpose is the most important thing, and his purpose is... well, that. Unless someone convinces him otherwise I agree to an extent. I do think he believes what he must do is reprehensible, and would prefer his friends and loved ones not get involved because of that. I don't think he cares much for shielding the average person from it, though. For one, he's already demonstrated that he has no issue with manipulating people into sealing their own fate. He had no problem manipulating Briala into giving his agent the password, or letting Corypheus blow himself up with the orb, or encouraging the Inquisitor to hand it right to him when (if) the Orb is found. So clearly he'll make people an unintentional accessory to his plans, and given that he has agents (Some of whom - such as Felassan - who are clearly aware of the extent of those plans) he will obviously accept intentional and fully-informed help as well. So I'm not sure about his wanting to shield others from having to do something so terrible. It's an issue that seems to only apply to the Inquisitor, not everyone. I agree on the point of purpose, however. Solas does seem to think he's duty-bound, for whatever reason. Although I don't think he believes his purpose is as narrow as destruction alone, just that whatever it is, he believes this will fulfill it. Do you know what this reminds me of? Parents who won't tell their adult children the bad news about [insert here health problem, death in the family, etc.] in an attempt to shield them and not worry them. I was just grousig about that with a friend earlier today and you talking of Solas shielding others of the worse of his burden is making me think of it. Solas, grumpy father of Thedas will shield them of the truth come hell and high water lol Certainly he doesn't seem to trust modern people with the full extent of his knowledge. In addition to the quote Tea posted, there's another where he's talking to Vivienne about the Temple, and both agree that the power there would be better off forgotten, since if it got out it would likely be misused. I think it's less a desire to not worry them and more a belief that if they had it, they'd do something very, very stupid with it. Solas doesn't seem the sort to lie to someone because the truth is too hurtful. He DOES seem like the guy to lie to someone because he doesn't trust them to use the truth wisely.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Nov 24, 2016 0:40:18 GMT
I'm not quite sure what mean by "hubristic" pride and that article doesn't give many answers either. Going off the definition posited, I can only think it means "Selfish manchild," which is not what I'd describe Solas as, despite his flaws. I do think he embodies a sort of negative form of pride, but it's - hmm, how to say this... it's a mistrustful sort, I guess. His pride leads him to believe he is the only one capable of implementing real change in the world - not because he thinks he's better than everyone, but because he simply feels like he cannot trust them. He trusted the world to find it's own path without him and without the Evanuris, and he feels they failed him, leaving him bitter ("There's nothing worse than watching fools squander what you sacrificed to achieve." or however that line of his goes.) As such, he doesn't think he can leave their future in their own hands, as to him, they've done nothing but fuck it up. He believes things have to be fixed, and he has to be the one who fixes them, because someone else might do it wrong (All of modern Thedas) or they might willingly betray him (Felassan.) That's the big issue with Solas' pride. It's not overconfidence in himself, it's a lack of confidence in everyone else. (This also further ties into his general misanthropic attitude.) I've seen people point out before that Solas does not sit well with injustice. That if he feels something is wrong, he pushes to make it right, or at least gets very vocal about it (See: Just about every time he yells at Dorian or Vivienne or Bull about slaves/mages/The Qun/whatever.) Partially that's because, despite his somewhat amoral methods, he nonetheless keeps his own moral code - but partially it's because he thinks he has to stand up about these things. That no one else can see the wrongness of them, or if they do, they don't think it's worth changing. That if he simply remains quiet, nothing will be fixed, because he doesn't have any faith in other people anymore. That's his pride. To dismantle it, you'd have to prove to him that he's not needed anymore, he doesn't have to play nanny to the whole world, people can find the best way forward on their own. He doesn't do what he does to feel better about himself, but because he only trusts himself to do them. Fair enough. Google has lots of answers. Here's some more in-depth descriptions from Psychology Today: Authentic pride is fueled by the emotional rush of accomplishment, confidence, and success, and is associated with prosocial and achievement-oriented behaviors, extraversion, agreeableness, conscientiousness, satisfying interpersonal relationships, and positive mental health. Authentic pride is also associated with genuine self-esteem, which is high self-esteem controlling for narcissism. Authentic pride, and its associated subjective feelings of confidence and accomplishment may facilitate behaviors that are associated with attaining prestige. People who are confident, agreeable, hard-working, energetic, kind, empathic, non-dogmatic, and high in genuine self-esteem would draw inspiration from others and would want to be emulated by others.
Hubristic pride, on the other hand, is fueled by arrogance and conceit, and is associated with anti-social behaviors, rocky relationships, low levels of conscientiousness and high levels of disagreableness, neuroticism, narcissism, and poor mental health outcomes. Hubristic pride, and its associated subjective feelings of superiority and arrogance, may facilitate dominance by motivating behaviors such as aggression, hostility, and manipulation.
I think that what you described about Solas - his sense that he has to fix things because no one else can - is very much like the description of hubristic pride here - he feels superior to others, he is arrogant enough to think that only he can fix things, he is certainly manipulative and he shows some aggression and hostility to a befriended Inquisitor as well as a non-friend Inquisitor (I find the way he yanks any Inquisitor's hand but a romanced Lavellan's when he's preparing to remove the mark to be a hostile gesture and rather cruel.) ETA: here's the source for those descriptions I just posted: www.psychologytoday.com/blog/beautiful-minds/201207/pride-and-creativity
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Post by ellawyn on Nov 24, 2016 2:31:16 GMT
Fair enough. Google has lots of answers. Here's some more in-depth descriptions from Psychology Today: Authentic pride is fueled by the emotional rush of accomplishment, confidence, and success, and is associated with prosocial and achievement-oriented behaviors, extraversion, agreeableness, conscientiousness, satisfying interpersonal relationships, and positive mental health. Authentic pride is also associated with genuine self-esteem, which is high self-esteem controlling for narcissism. Authentic pride, and its associated subjective feelings of confidence and accomplishment may facilitate behaviors that are associated with attaining prestige. People who are confident, agreeable, hard-working, energetic, kind, empathic, non-dogmatic, and high in genuine self-esteem would draw inspiration from others and would want to be emulated by others.
Hubristic pride, on the other hand, is fueled by arrogance and conceit, and is associated with anti-social behaviors, rocky relationships, low levels of conscientiousness and high levels of disagreableness, neuroticism, narcissism, and poor mental health outcomes. Hubristic pride, and its associated subjective feelings of superiority and arrogance, may facilitate dominance by motivating behaviors such as aggression, hostility, and manipulation.
I think that what you described about Solas - his sense that he has to fix things because no one else can - is very much like the description of hubristic pride here - he feels superior to others, he is arrogant enough to think that only he can fix things, he is certainly manipulative and he shows some aggression and hostility to a befriended Inquisitor as well as a non-friend Inquisitor (I find the way he yanks any Inquisitor's hand but a romanced Lavellan's when he's preparing to remove the mark to be a hostile gesture and rather cruel.) ETA: here's the source for those descriptions I just posted: www.psychologytoday.com/blog/beautiful-minds/201207/pride-and-creativityDoesn't he just like - put out his hand for the Inquisitor's and patiently waits as he gives it to them when you're befriended? As I recall he only grabs and pulls with unfriendly Inquisitors. Yeah, here's a link: sillylindling.tumblr.com/post/136512613231/high-approval-solas-vs-low-approval-solasI mean, agreed on arrogant and manipulative, and to a smaller degree superior, but I disagree that Solas displays many of these other traits. You pointed out yourself how a certain political figure demonstrates them - and if that's the metric being used, I don't see how it really applies to Solas. He does not reactively lash out against someone who insults or questions him (And people do that basically the entire game.) So I don't agree on the point of aggression or hostility - even on low-approval runs he seems more coldly apathetic than actively hostile. I don't see how neuroticism and nacissism are applicable either. Conscientious is a difficult criteria to grapple with, because he can be extremely conscientious in ideals but morally ruthless in methods. Nonetheless, I don't think he fits the criteria very well. Psychology's a difficult thing, and I don't think it's entirely fair to diagnose a character because they fit a few criteria of a label. Demonstrating some traits of a disorder does not mean you have the disorder, especially when they are motivated by different emotions, especially when the person in question has a wildly different experience from the typical person. I'd also similarly dispute that he embodied authentic pride before. I think he's displayed traits from both consistently, throughout the game and into Trespasser, and as such he doesn't really have either.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Nov 24, 2016 2:45:37 GMT
Doesn't he just like - put out his hand for the Inquisitor's and patiently waits as he gives it to them when you're befriended? As I recall he only grabs and pulls with unfriendly Inquisitors. Yeah, here's a link: sillylindling.tumblr.com/post/136512613231/high-approval-solas-vs-low-approval-solasI mean, agreed on arrogant and manipulative, and to a smaller degree superior, but I disagree that Solas displays many of these other traits. You pointed out yourself how a certain political figure demonstrates them - and if that's the metric being used, I don't see how it really applies to Solas. He does not reactively lash out against someone who insults or questions him (And people do that basically the entire game.) So I don't agree on the point of aggression or hostility - even on low-approval runs he seems more coldly apathetic than actively hostile. I don't see how neuroticism and nacissism are applicable either. Conscientious is a difficult criteria to grapple with, because he can be extremely conscientious in ideals but morally ruthless in methods. Nonetheless, I don't think he fits the criteria very well. Psychology's a difficult thing, and I don't think it's entirely fair to diagnose a character because they fit a few criteria of a label. Demonstrating some traits of a disorder does not mean you have the disorder, especially when they are motivated by different emotions, especially when the person in question has a wildly different experience from the typical person. I'd also similarly dispute that he embodied authentic pride before. I think he's displayed traits from both consistently, throughout the game and into Trespasser, and as such he doesn't really have either. Thanks for finding the gifs of high approval vs low approval Solas. The videos I was watching must all have been low-approval Solas or else I was misremembering. I'm not diagnosing... authentic pride and hubristic pride aren't disorders. They are ways of analyzing the complex emotion of pride. Trump isn't the metric; he's just the obvious person that people have been pointing to in the past year or so when discussing the hubristic aspect of pride in this particular model of the emotion of pride. Not all people who exhibit hubristic pride are exactly like Trump. If it helps you understand what is meant by "hubristic pride," the dictionary definition of "hubris" is: 1. arrogant pride or presumption 2. (in Greek tragedy) excessive pride towards or defiance of the gods, leading to nemesis. And the definition of "nemesis" is: 1. retributive justice 2. a downfall caused by [retributive justice]. 3. an agent of such a downfall. I think both definitions of hubris could be applied to Solas, although the Greek gods are being replaced by modern Thedosians and nemesis is replaced by an Inquisitor who vows to stop him at all costs in this case. Many years ago I had to read Antigone by Sophocles as part of a university course. If you're interested in a more creative description of hubris, then the Greek tragic trilogy of Oedipus Rex, Oedipus at Colona, and Antigone might be worth a read. They're plays, if you go in for that sort of thing.
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Post by CapricornSun on Nov 24, 2016 6:14:51 GMT
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 24, 2016 10:31:33 GMT
While I agree with basically everything you said here, I think it's only half of the story - Solas does say that 'the healer has the bloodiest hands' and has basically accepted that he is the one who will end up with most blood on his hands. Since he's already got himself 'dirty' - too dirty to save, basically - he's decided that the only thing left to him is shielding everyone else from grim responsibility of doing whatever has to be done to bring things to balance (or how he sees it, at the very least). This is why he basically shoots down any Dalish Inquisitor expressing willingness to help him, or why he says to romanced Lavellan that he can't do that to her, or that sharing what he knows would make her bear the same burden. Ironically he may think that it'd help even those condemns to retain their relative innocence, no matter how foolish or inept he thinks they are. He also likely thinks that it's the only thing he's good for, which may also be a part of the drive to finalize his plans :/ He is, after all, of the mind that one's purpose is the most important thing, and his purpose is... well, that. Unless someone convinces him otherwise I agree to an extent. I do think he believes what he must do is reprehensible, and would prefer his friends and loved ones not get involved because of that. I don't think he cares much for shielding the average person from it, though. For one, he's already demonstrated that he has no issue with manipulating people into sealing their own fate. He had no problem manipulating Briala into giving his agent the password, or letting Corypheus blow himself up with the orb, or encouraging the Inquisitor to hand it right to him when (if) the Orb is found. So clearly he'll make people an unintentional accessory to his plans, and given that he has agents (Some of whom - such as Felassan - who are clearly aware of the extent of those plans) he will obviously accept intentional and fully-informed help as well. So I'm not sure about his wanting to shield others from having to do something so terrible. It's an issue that seems to only apply to the Inquisitor, not everyone. I agree on the point of purpose, however. Solas does seem to think he's duty-bound, for whatever reason. Although I don't think he believes his purpose is as narrow as destruction alone, just that whatever it is, he believes this will fulfill it. I don't really see a disconnect between sacrificing an unwitting pawn and shielding people from his own fate... I mean, after all, they may die ignorant and used, but still better off than knowing world's dirty secrets or what had to be done to restore the elves, right? And yes, whatever his reasons, he does seem to shield everyone else from his own fate. He tells so to Cole - his fate is his alone. He tells so to Inquisitor - he alone will pay the price (he tells so no matter how much he likes or dislikes the Inky). He obviously takes it on himself to do whatever he thinks is necessary - heck, he even seemed to have taken that burden from Flemythal by stealing her powers and continuing with his plans... and she, probably of all people, knew him best and knew what he was up to. In his mind it seems that death and even betrayal is better than what awaits him. Solas could as well walk with a banner above his head that has "I HAVE GINORMOUS TRUST ISSUES!" written in big, blinking letters. I think we can easily come to an agreement that it is likely his biggest problem, exacerbating all other problems he has. I mean... he can't shut up about it, to be frank
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Post by Auirel on Nov 24, 2016 15:16:27 GMT
Mostly going off of previous comments, but convincing Solas not to go through with his plan is going to be very tricky to pull off right I think. There's a fine line between persuasion and manipulation that will need to be walked, and I think Solas is too well versed in the later to be fooled by it, even if it were done with noble intentions in mind. I think it will just backfire and sour his trust with the world even more. For the people of modern Thedas to be better than the people of ancient times, they have to prove themselves more capable of leaving the temptation of great, uncontrolled power alone. Which hasn't gone so well so far, what with the Blights and all. But maybe there's a chance that you could convince Solas that the ancient Elves were even worse offenders by comparison, or something along those lines.
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Post by rowrow on Nov 24, 2016 15:25:38 GMT
'She is not a person nor is anyone else' - does that include Felassan? No. I meant 'She is not a person nor is anyone else [ born in modern Thedas]'. Fel is one of Solas' people and I don't claim otherwise. Because regardless of how strongly Solas felt about the necessity of his plains, it was uncharacteristically brutal of him to kill Felassan without even giving him a chance to explain himself. We've only seen Solas behave that way to people who've hurt innocents, like the mages who bound Wisdom. Briala may not be a person, but presumably Felassan is, so why not even give him a chance to change Solas' mind? Doesn't it seem out of character for Solas to behave that way? Does it seem to you that the Solas we know would be so unwilling to listen to someone he trusts, and get so enraged over a disagreement with his orders, that he'd just kill him, no questions asked? Aha! This is why I brought up the Inquisition changing Solas's perspective on Modern Thedas in the first place. The following is how I see it and may not be how others see it. I don't think at all that it was uncharacteristic of him to cut down Fel--mid sentence no less--because it's the Solas without experiences gained in Inquisition. Without those experiences in the Inquisition, Solas is not changing his perspective. There is no discussion, no chance for Fel to explain himself. He is a liability and a loose end. It doesn't matter that Fel was a friend, one of his people. He willingly failed his task and sealed his fate. Solas can be a cold and cruel individual. I mean, the way he uses the anchor to cripple an Inquisitor that tries to attack him. It still makes me laugh. Fel did tell Solas to give Briala a chance. Solas, before Inquisition--before interacting and mingling with modern Thedosians--is not going to listen at all. Felassan saw what Solas did not at the time. The Solas we see in Inquisition is undergoing a change (not in personality), growing to understand that these modern Thedosians are people. "You show a wisdom I have not seen since...sincemydeepestjourneysintotheancientmemoriesofthefade. You are not what I expected." "We aren't even people to you?" "Not at first. You showed me that I was wrong...again." We see Solas go from 'these modern thedosians are not people' to possibly falling in love depending on your Inquisitor. That change is the difference between Solas that killed Fel and Solas at the end of Trespasser and why I see the murder being in character. I don't disagree that Solas perspective on modern Thedosians changes due to the Inquisition. But once again, that leaves us with a pre-Inquisition Solas who is willing to execute an agent for disagreeing with him, without hearing him out. Solas' beliefs about Thedosians aren't the issue here, it's how he treats someone who has a different opinion and disobeys him because of it. That's a fundamental issue of character. Even if Solas doesn't believe that Felassan could possibly have any valid points to make, Felassan is still a person, not a broken tool. Why would Solas not even take one minute to hear him out, instead of literally cutting him off like he was cutting the dead limb off a tree? Solas can be cold and cruel, but it's usually to those he considers cruel or destructive himself. I'm not arguing for a fluffy kitten version of him, just one who doesn't treat people as useful things to be discarded the second it seems they've stopped performing properly. Further, isn't Solas the guy constantly ranting about people with minds so closed that they're incapable of questioning their own assumptions, or hearing evidence that contradicts them? He's like that right from the start of DAI. Why was Felassan not even worth listening to? And it's one thing to believe that the other person can't possibly have any valid argument, it's another to go from deciding that to killing them in seconds. This is not the action of a thoughtful, rational, or even pragmatic person. It's the behaviour of a tyrant, a fanatic, a psycho, or someone having an extreme emotional reaction. I know Felassan was ready to die for his disobedience. That doesn't mean there was no moral weight to the act of killing him. Solas wrestles with his conscience constantly. The Solas we know, I mean the core person I think he is, would never say that just because someone puts their life in your hands, it's literally yours to dispose of as you like. He's the guy who leads rebellions against people who think like that. Right? Also, I've seen the word 'betrayal' often used for what Felassan did. I may have used it myself. But I struggle to recognise a Solas who considers disagreement and disobedience a betrayal in and of itself. We know he admires Cassandra for her own ability to walk back on her assumptions about the Herald's guilt. I believe (but no specific evidence comes to mind) that he also admires her for not simply toeing the Chantry line like a good little soldier. Sometimes you disobey so as not to betray the spirit of a cause, and I can't believe pre-Inquisition Solas wouldn't know that. If Felassan had commited active sabotage or killed fellow agents like Leliana's man Butler, that's one thing. But here was Felassan basically saying 'I didn't do what you wanted because I think you're wrong', and Solas seems to immediately decides he's a lost cause. Regardless of however many years of friendship. If this is who Solas was before Inquisition, and somehow he's not after Inquisition, that's a huge difference. And not one that I think can be explained by him having changed his mind about who is and who's not people. "There would be no debate, no logical argument, no impassioned plea." That's the line from TME that sticks with me. Felassan clearly expected that Solas wouldn't budge on this, but he also seemed to know there was another side to Solas. One that we have seen in DAI and are familiar with. I think there's a vital part of Solas' story we're missing that explains that last scene, because I don't think anything we've seen so far does so adequately.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 24, 2016 17:49:50 GMT
I don't disagree that Solas perspective on modern Thedosians changes due to the Inquisition. But once again, that leaves us with a pre-Inquisition Solas who is willing to execute an agent for disagreeing with him, without hearing him out. Solas' beliefs about Thedosians aren't the issue here, it's how he treats someone who has a different opinion and disobeys him because of it. That's a fundamental issue of character. Even if Solas doesn't believe that Felassan could possibly have any valid points to make, Felassan is still a person, not a broken tool. Why would Solas not even take one minute to hear him out, instead of literally cutting him off like he was cutting the dead limb off a tree? Solas can be cold and cruel, but it's usually to those he considers cruel or destructive himself. I'm not arguing for a fluffy kitten version of him, just one who doesn't treat people as useful things to be discarded the second it seems they've stopped performing properly. Further, isn't Solas the guy constantly ranting about people with minds so closed that they're incapable of questioning their own assumptions, or hearing evidence that contradicts them? He's like that right from the start of DAI. Why was Felassan not even worth listening to? And it's one thing to believe that the other person can't possibly have any valid argument, it's another to go from deciding that to killing them in seconds. This is not the action of a thoughtful, rational, or even pragmatic person. It's the behaviour of a tyrant, a fanatic, a psycho, or someone having an extreme emotional reaction. I know Felassan was ready to die for his disobedience. That doesn't mean there was no moral weight to the act of killing him. Solas wrestles with his conscience constantly. The Solas we know, I mean the core person I think he is, would never say that just because someone puts their life in your hands, it's literally yours to dispose of as you like. He's the guy who leads rebellions against people who think like that. Right? Also, I've seen the word 'betrayal' often used for what Felassan did. I may have used it myself. But I struggle to recognise a Solas who considers disagreement and disobedience a betrayal in and of itself. We know he admires Cassandra for her own ability to walk back on her assumptions about the Herald's guilt. I believe (but no specific evidence comes to mind) that he also admires her for not simply toeing the Chantry line like a good little soldier. Sometimes you disobey so as not to betray the spirit of a cause, and I can't believe pre-Inquisition Solas wouldn't know that. If Felassan had commited active sabotage or killed fellow agents like Leliana's man Butler, that's one thing. But here was Felassan basically saying 'I didn't do what you wanted because I think you're wrong', and Solas seems to immediately decides he's a lost cause. Regardless of however many years of friendship. If this is who Solas was before Inquisition, and somehow he's not after Inquisition, that's a huge difference. And not one that I think can be explained by him having changed his mind about who is and who's not people. "There would be no debate, no logical argument, no impassioned plea." That's the line from TME that sticks with me. Felassan clearly expected that Solas wouldn't budge on this, but he also seemed to know there was another side to Solas. One that we have seen in DAI and are familiar with. I think there's a vital part of Solas' story we're missing that explains that last scene, because I don't think anything we've seen so far does so adequately. I don't really think this is as black-and-white situation, where there's either compassionate, rational option and 'OOC: tyrant, a fanatic, a psycho, or someone having an extreme emotional reaction' type of option. From Solas's perspective at that time his action WAS rational. I think we've already established several times that he's working on a really tight schedule, in a situation with few options left, almost surely making desperate moves that require his people's devotion and adherence to whatever he's plan in order for his grand plan to even be realized. In such scenario there's NO option for mistakes or people changing mind or pleading. In fact, I think he comment from Tiniest Cave seems to be the exact thing Solas was thinking when he was dealing with Felassan: “Deviating from the plan. No accounting for whimsy. Small differences lead to fatal consequences. I’m sorry.” Then there's Cole who doesn't characterize Solas's dealing with Felassan as a bout of tyrannical anger or anything, but that of sad necessity ("His friend had to die. Because he thought they were people. A slow arrow breaks in the sad wolf's jaws.") It might have been a necessity from Solas's perspective, but still a necessity. We can't forget that at that time he spent thousands of years in the Fade, preparing to do that one thing that Felassan has threatened with his actions.
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Post by ellawyn on Nov 24, 2016 17:55:23 GMT
I don't really see a disconnect between sacrificing an unwitting pawn and shielding people from his own fate... I mean, after all, they may die ignorant and used, but still better off than knowing world's dirty secrets or what had to be done to restore the elves, right? And yes, whatever his reasons, he does seem to shield everyone else from his own fate. He tells so to Cole - his fate is his alone. He tells so to Inquisitor - he alone will pay the price (he tells so no matter how much he likes or dislikes the Inky). He obviously takes it on himself to do whatever he thinks is necessary - heck, he even seemed to have taken that burden from Flemythal by stealing her powers and continuing with his plans... and she, probably of all people, knew him best and knew what he was up to. In his mind it seems that death and even betrayal is better than what awaits him. Solas could as well walk with a banner above his head that has "I HAVE GINORMOUS TRUST ISSUES!" written in big, blinking letters. I think we can easily come to an agreement that it is likely his biggest problem, exacerbating all other problems he has. I mean... he can't shut up about it, to be frank Well, I guess this comes down to a matter of interpretation, but I took his "I would not wish this fate upon an enemy" line to mean more that whatever he's doing will have painful, torturous consequences for the doer, and as such, he'll refuse help to spare them from it (Now that I think about it, that's probably what he meant in that line to the Inquisitor too.). But that's different from sparing them the responsibility. It's not that he believes his plan is so terrible that he would not put the moral weight of it on someone else. Again, given that he has agents like Felassan, who clearly know what's happening but who's aid he accepts anyway, I don't think he's trying to spare anyone's conscience. No argument here about the trust issues though :\ I think both definitions of hubris could be applied to Solas, although the Greek gods are being replaced by modern Thedosians and nemesis is replaced by an Inquisitor who vows to stop him at all costs in this case. Many years ago I had to read Antigone by Sophocles as part of a university course. If you're interested in a more creative description of hubris, then the Greek tragic trilogy of Oedipus Rex, Oedipus at Colona, and Antigone might be worth a read. They're plays, if you go in for that sort of thing. I do think those definitions apply to Solas, perhaps almost literally with his opposition to the Evanuris. I've also already read Oedipus Rex and Antigone (Never Colona though.) But it seems broader than the definition of hubristic pride, and with different criteria, so I'm not sure I'd equate the two. Also - sorry, I didn't mean to imply that it was a disorder (Although looking over the post that seems like an oversight on my part.) I was just trying to use disorders (Specifically personality disorders) as an example of something with criteria that could apply to a lot of people, without them actually having it because they do not demonstrate enough of it. "There would be no debate, no logical argument, no impassioned plea." That's the line from TME that sticks with me. Felassan clearly expected that Solas wouldn't budge on this, but he also seemed to know there was another side to Solas. One that we have seen in DAI and are familiar with. I think there's a vital part of Solas' story we're missing that explains that last scene, because I don't think anything we've seen so far does so adequately. You know, I sort of agree with you. Do I think Solas would be ruthless enough to murder his friend if he thought he needed to? Oh yeah, absolutely. Do I think he'd do so while refusing to hear them out first? Eeehh.... not really. That'd he would do that is a bit jarring for me. The description Felassan gives of Fen'Harel in general doesn't quite seem to gel with what we know of Solas. I don't think it's a case of "Everything you knew about me was wrong all along!" because that'd make his characterization in Inquisition utterly pointless. But why the difference? As far Felassan's stories about Fen'Harel go, it's feasible that that's simply what he was like in his youth (Suggesting to kill someone just to meet their pretty friend again does sound like something a youthful Solas might do, clever enough to parse out unique solutions but not wise to know not to use them.) Hmm... I've heard the theory that, as Solas underwent many rewrites - more than any other character - that the ending to TME was written with a different, and perhaps more plainly villainous version of Solas in mind. I'm not sure how likely that is - it'd depend on when TME came out, how long it took to write, when rewrites occurred for Inquisition, etc. It would explain the discrepancy, and why Felassan seemed to think of Solas as prone to rage, while Cole describes him as a sad wolf. Alternatively, Solas doesn't trust much of anyone. Felassan's actions - something that he would've seen as betrayal from a trusted friend - might've stung so viscerally that he just didn't care. Of course, that also contradicts the "sad wolf" line. :\ Well, I got nothing.
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NeverlandHunter
470
Oct 15, 2016 16:07:48 GMT
October 2016
neverlandhunter
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by NeverlandHunter on Nov 24, 2016 17:58:42 GMT
Happy Thanksgiving, Blanketfort! To all my fellow celebrators: I hope you have a great day with people you care about and good food! And for my non celebrators: I wish you lovelies a wonderful day too! And I know I'm interrupting an interesting discussion going on above, but I thought I'd list some about Dragon Age favorite things and ask you to share yours! Festivalness and made up words! BioWare is my favorite game developer! Dragon Age is my favorite game series and Dragon Age: Origins my all time favorite game! I have no favorite companion or character because I love them all so much! Zevran is my favorite character as a romance, though And yet Solas's romance is my favorite! Curse your drama, it sucked me in and won't let me escape! I really love Hawke as a character (especially the humorous one )! I know some people don't like how much personality and back story she's set with, but I think it just makes her stand on her own as a character and it isn't necessarily a bad thing, just a different experience. With that said, my Wardens are so great. Sorry, Inquisitors, but they're definitely the number one bad*sses of Thedas! Dragon battles in Inquisition are so amazing. I can't even look at the dragons in Skyrim the same way anymore. I judge them. I think Dorian and The Iron Bull are cute together and I'm not afraid to admit it! My Warden's friendshipping of Nathaniel Howe and Velanna was the best, and even though they weren't official, they're my favorite between companion romance My favorite race to play is an elf, even though I usually play humans first. I do that because my first play through is the closest one I have to a self-insert In Origins and DA2 it was my second play through that had my favorite romance and became my canon (Zevran and Fenris). Not so with Inquisition. Solas is my favorite and my canon play through! Nugs are the best! I favor playing as a mage for added story drama, but I also love duel wielding as a rogue! The companion banter is honestly one of my favorite things about the games. Dragon Age is awesome and I'm glad I made the decision to part ways with my $6 to get the used copy of Origins in GameStop not even three years ago!
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Mar 22, 2017 11:04:48 GMT
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javeart
621
Nov 16, 2016 10:21:58 GMT
November 2016
javeart
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Post by javeart on Nov 24, 2016 19:21:43 GMT
I've heard the theory that, as Solas underwent many rewrites - more than any other character - that the ending to TME was written with a different, and perhaps more plainly villainous version of Solas in mind. I'm not sure how likely that is - it'd depend on when TME came out, how long it took to write, when rewrites occurred for Inquisition, etc. It would explain the discrepancy, and why Felassan seemed to think of Solas as prone to rage, while Cole describes him as a sad wolf. I've tought about this too and, though obvioulsy I have nothing to support it, I think this could be the reason for the dissonance... and I think too that the "sad wolve" line was maybe the way Weekes saw to reconcile that first more "evil" Solas of TME with the one we see in Inquisition. That said, for me works, I can definetely see him killing Felassan becaue he can afford no loose ends and being very sad about it. As for not giving him the chance to explain, I'm not sure that from Solas point of view there's much to explain, I don't think there's much Felassan could have said that would haved change Solas mind (that doesn' seem something easy to do) and/or that any explanation of the situation was needed. Killing him quickly and with hessitation to put and end to the whole thing as soon as possible, seems to me a reaction that goes with the character. Too me, it's fitting. But, we all see characters in different ways (which is always interesting), so maybe it's that I see Solas as darker character (even if he has a ton of virtues that I love), and I can understand how it all could be jarring if you see him in a different light
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10,078
QuizzyBunny
No 1 bunny giffer
2,649
August 2016
theycallmebunny
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
InquisitorBunny
430
1114
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Nov 24, 2016 19:32:18 GMT
We don't really celebrate it here where I live, but to those who do...
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